Trade my LSi15s for LSiM705s?

I really like my LSi15 speakers. Currently driving them with 100watt amp (Schitt Ragnarok), and have contemplated a power upgrade. I also own KEF LS50s, and swap between the two for different experiences.

With the LsiM705s going on sale from time-to-time, I've often wondered how much better they are than my 15s - the dog seeing the bone in the water's reflection.

Are the differences between these two really significant? This is in a 13x26 room with sound treatment. I'm using about half of the room, and don't listen crazy loud - mostly jazz/classical, vinyl.
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Comments

  • EndersShadowEndersShadow Posts: 16,928
    Step 1 is actually hearing the 15's right, which requires more than 100 wpc. Given they are 4 ohms, and have a 8" "sub" in them, most folks find they sound their best with around 200 wpc. Many have also upgraded the stock 8" driver with the Polk db840, which tightens up the response.......

    Even the LSiM 705's would want more than 100 wpc to really shine.
    "....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963)
  • WLDockWLDock Posts: 2,671
    edited January 3
    tlainhart wrote: »
    This is in a 13x26 room with sound treatment. I'm using about half of the room, and don't listen crazy loud - mostly jazz/classical, vinyl.
    Sell your LSi15s, your LS50s, your amp, your preamp, etc and get the KEF LS50 Wireless.

    Later add a sub for a different experience.


    Just saying...

    FAMILY ROOM
    HDTV - Sharp AQUOS LC-70LE600U 70" | AVR/Streamer - Onkyo TX-NR3008 | Amp - Parasound HCA-1203A
    Blu-Ray/Media/Gaming - Sony PS3-320GB / Microsoft Xbox One | Broadcast - Xfinity X1 Platform
    Front Spkrs - Coming...DIY Statement II | Center Spkrs - Coming...DIY Statement II | Rear Spkrs - Artison Portrait LRS
    Sub - DIY Stereo Integrity HT 15 | Sub Amp - Dayton Audio SA1000
    Wire - Audioquest Type 4, BJC Belden 5000 | HDMI - BJC Belden | Power Cables - Pangea | Surge - Monster
  • tlainharttlainhart Posts: 66
    Step 1 is actually hearing the 15's right, which requires more than 100 wpc. Given they are 4 ohms, and have a 8" "sub" in them, most folks find they sound their best with around 200 wpc. Many have also upgraded the stock 8" driver with the Polk db840, which tightens up the response.......

    Even the LSiM 705's would want more than 100 wpc to really shine.

    Thanks. I have considered a power upgrade. I had a Rogue Audio Sphinx w/ 200w @ 4ohms, but sold it when I heard the grip on the speakers that the Ragnarok had at [email protected] Something about that amplification really made the difference.

    I'm also aware of the woofer and crossover upgrades. But I figured if I'm to go that route, why not consider the LSiM705s.
  • PSOVLSKPSOVLSK Posts: 4,140
    I've owned LSi15's with upgraded sub and crossover and I liked them a lot. Based on my very limited experience with the 705, I think they are clearly the better speaker and a worthwhile upgrade.
    Things work out best for those who make the best of the way things work out.-John Wooden
  • erniejadeerniejade Posts: 5,107
    In my den ( the acoustically challenged room) the kef LS50w and a sub sounded much better to my ears then the lsim 705. I did have them at the same time.
    The KEF ls50w sub combo had a much wider and deeper soundstage as well.
    Den: Lumin D1,Wireworld Silver Eclipse, KEF LS50 Wireless, Velodyne SPL1200, Technics 1200, Denon DL160, Jolida D9,

    Living Room:,T+A PA 1530R, Tyler Highland H2, Aries Mini, High Fidelity Reveal RCA, Grant Fidelity Tube Dac 11, W4S recovery, Wireworld Platinum Starlight, PS Audio Direct Stream JR.

    Have but haven't used in a while: LH Labs VI Dac, Cayin SCD50T

  • K_MK_M Posts: 1,539
    PSOVLSK wrote: »
    I've owned LSi15's with upgraded sub and crossover and I liked them a lot. Based on my very limited experience with the 705, I think they are clearly the better speaker and a worthwhile upgrade.

    I have a love/hate relationship with our Lsi15's
    Would love to get rid of them at times, as we have other set ups that are more enjoyable, and have deeper bass also, but there is something seductive and just "right" about the lsi15's that nothing else quite has.

    Certain vocals and sounds on it are just like smooth and honey seeming.
    They do not rock out nor project vocals too forward, but they are so smooth and listenable for long term like nothing I have owned.
    Lsi15, Lsi9, LsiC,Rta11t,M5jr+,M4, SDA SRS 2.3TL, Rti6....Still listing stuff, a work in progress.
    B+W-Sold
    Electro Voice EV-SIX
    Infinity-Sold
    Advent-Now gone
    Yamaha A-S801
    Yamaha RX-V377
    Yamaha RX-A860
    Yamaha RX-A3060
    Harman Kardon Hk-350i
    Harman Kardon Hk-........
    Harman Kardon PM-665
    Harman Kardon HK-775
    Pioneer.......Stereo Receiver

  • tlainharttlainhart Posts: 66
    erniejade wrote: »
    In my den ( the acoustically challenged room) the kef LS50w and a sub sounded much better to my ears then the lsim 705. I did have them at the same time.
    The KEF ls50w sub combo had a much wider and deeper soundstage as well.

    The KEF does imaging really well, for sure. And it has a presence and depth to it that is great. The LSi15 does some things different/better to my ear. If I had to have just one, not sure which I would pick.

    I could never get a sub to sound good with either the LSi15 or the LS50. It's a PSW500 or something like that - just never really added anything but boom.
  • tlainharttlainhart Posts: 66
    edited January 6
    K_M wrote: »
    ...but they are so smooth and listenable for long term like nothing I have owned.

    Agreed.

  • rooftop59rooftop59 Posts: 6,010
    tlainhart wrote: »
    erniejade wrote: »
    In my den ( the acoustically challenged room) the kef LS50w and a sub sounded much better to my ears then the lsim 705. I did have them at the same time.
    The KEF ls50w sub combo had a much wider and deeper soundstage as well.

    The KEF does imaging really well, for sure. And it has a presence and depth to it that is great. The LSi15 does some things different/better to my ear. If I had to have just one, not sure which I would pick.

    I could never get a sub to sound good with either the LSi15 or the LS50. It's a PSW500 or something like that - just never really added anything but boom.

    That’s because Polk does not make great subs. You need something tight and linear with an accurate crossover. I have a Martin Logan dynamo original that hits into the mid 20s and is very quick and accurate with a precise crossover. You would be able to integrate it with either of those speakers imho...and they can be had for about 200-250 shipped on eBay.
    Living Room 2.1: Dynaudio Contour 1.3mkii; Energy s10.2 sub; Cambridge Azur 851a; Cambridge Azur 752BD; Bryston BPD-1; NVidia ShieldTV
    Game Room HT: Denon AVR-X4200w; Definitive Technology SM350; Definitive Technology LCR2000; Definitive Technology Procinema 800; Mirage Nanasats; Sub - HSU VTF-2 MK5; LG UP870 4K BDP;
    ; Master Bedroom
    Cambridge Azur 551r; Definitive Technology SM45, ACI Titan Subwoofer Squeezebox Touch
  • erniejadeerniejade Posts: 5,107
    tlainhart wrote: »
    erniejade wrote: »
    In my den ( the acoustically challenged room) the kef LS50w and a sub sounded much better to my ears then the lsim 705. I did have them at the same time.
    The KEF ls50w sub combo had a much wider and deeper soundstage as well.

    The KEF does imaging really well, for sure. And it has a presence and depth to it that is great. The LSi15 does some things different/better to my ear. If I had to have just one, not sure which I would pick.

    I could never get a sub to sound good with either the LSi15 or the LS50. It's a PSW500 or something like that - just never really added anything but boom.

    This is one reason why i said the ls50w. The electric crossover built in makes it seamless unless you have the sub in the wrong spot for your room.

    I missed the smoothness of the 9's I picked up the lsi25. I keep going between them and the sda3.1 in the livingroom. I agree with what everyone else has said on smooth and easy to listen to for hours on end. Again, its all personal preference. No wrong or right answer on this one.
    Den: Lumin D1,Wireworld Silver Eclipse, KEF LS50 Wireless, Velodyne SPL1200, Technics 1200, Denon DL160, Jolida D9,

    Living Room:,T+A PA 1530R, Tyler Highland H2, Aries Mini, High Fidelity Reveal RCA, Grant Fidelity Tube Dac 11, W4S recovery, Wireworld Platinum Starlight, PS Audio Direct Stream JR.

    Have but haven't used in a while: LH Labs VI Dac, Cayin SCD50T

  • tlainharttlainhart Posts: 66
    rooftop59 wrote: »
    That’s because Polk does not make great subs. You need something tight and linear with an accurate crossover. I have a Martin Logan dynamo original that hits into the mid 20s and is very quick and accurate with a precise crossover. You would be able to integrate it with either of those speakers imho...and they can be had for about 200-250 shipped on eBay.

    Thanks. I'll look for that sub. I've also read good things about this Rythmik L12 sub for 2-channel.

    Something else I've read from a couple of sources is that that 2 subs are preferred.

  • K_MK_M Posts: 1,539
    rooftop59 wrote: »
    tlainhart wrote: »
    erniejade wrote: »
    In my den ( the acoustically challenged room) the kef LS50w and a sub sounded much better to my ears then the lsim 705. I did have them at the same time.
    The KEF ls50w sub combo had a much wider and deeper soundstage as well.

    The KEF does imaging really well, for sure. And it has a presence and depth to it that is great. The LSi15 does some things different/better to my ear. If I had to have just one, not sure which I would pick.

    I could never get a sub to sound good with either the LSi15 or the LS50. It's a PSW500 or something like that - just never really added anything but boom.

    That’s because Polk does not make great subs. You need something tight and linear with an accurate crossover. I have a Martin Logan dynamo original that hits into the mid 20s and is very quick and accurate with a precise crossover. You would be able to integrate it with either of those speakers imho...and they can be had for about 200-250 shipped on eBay.

    We had the Polk Lsi Subwoofer, the one with a 10" sub on each side, in Piano gloss.
    We really liked it a lot until the amp broke.
    As you say it did not hit in the 20s at all, but was fairly tight and nice with music.
    Lsi15, Lsi9, LsiC,Rta11t,M5jr+,M4, SDA SRS 2.3TL, Rti6....Still listing stuff, a work in progress.
    B+W-Sold
    Electro Voice EV-SIX
    Infinity-Sold
    Advent-Now gone
    Yamaha A-S801
    Yamaha RX-V377
    Yamaha RX-A860
    Yamaha RX-A3060
    Harman Kardon Hk-350i
    Harman Kardon Hk-........
    Harman Kardon PM-665
    Harman Kardon HK-775
    Pioneer.......Stereo Receiver

  • tlainharttlainhart Posts: 66
    erniejade wrote: »
    This is one reason why i said the ls50w. The electric crossover built in makes it seamless unless you have the sub in the wrong spot for your room.

    The reason why the LS50w is a non-starter for me is that I have analog sources, as well as a good DAC. If I was starting fresh with digital sources, the LS50w is very attractive.

  • erniejadeerniejade Posts: 5,107
    Got ya. I only have 2 analog sources and use a schiit sys passive unit to go between the lumin d1 streamer / dac and Jolida d9 tube pre for the turntable.

    Den: Lumin D1,Wireworld Silver Eclipse, KEF LS50 Wireless, Velodyne SPL1200, Technics 1200, Denon DL160, Jolida D9,

    Living Room:,T+A PA 1530R, Tyler Highland H2, Aries Mini, High Fidelity Reveal RCA, Grant Fidelity Tube Dac 11, W4S recovery, Wireworld Platinum Starlight, PS Audio Direct Stream JR.

    Have but haven't used in a while: LH Labs VI Dac, Cayin SCD50T

  • stangman67stangman67 Posts: 1,307
    edited January 6
    Kind of an aside, but Ls50w are on the short list for a possible system replacement type of platform. I love my whole complicated setup but (now fiancé) waf might force me to downsize. LS50W are something I could easily sell to her in the main room with a turntable and bluesound node
    2 Channel - Major reduction complete

    KEF LS50W I Rega P6 w/ Ania MC I Rega Fono MC I Audience Ohno ICs


  • WLDockWLDock Posts: 2,671
    edited January 6
    Several have downsized from a rack of gear and still have and analog source. Their marketing guy Johan Coorg told me he and the Mrs. decided to do the same in one of their rooms. For multiple analog sources, there's audiophile grade RCA switchers out there. However, I would think one would really need to be sold on them to downsize.

    My other half doesn't want a large system in our living room. I'm hoping to pitch the Wireless at some point.
    FAMILY ROOM
    HDTV - Sharp AQUOS LC-70LE600U 70" | AVR/Streamer - Onkyo TX-NR3008 | Amp - Parasound HCA-1203A
    Blu-Ray/Media/Gaming - Sony PS3-320GB / Microsoft Xbox One | Broadcast - Xfinity X1 Platform
    Front Spkrs - Coming...DIY Statement II | Center Spkrs - Coming...DIY Statement II | Rear Spkrs - Artison Portrait LRS
    Sub - DIY Stereo Integrity HT 15 | Sub Amp - Dayton Audio SA1000
    Wire - Audioquest Type 4, BJC Belden 5000 | HDMI - BJC Belden | Power Cables - Pangea | Surge - Monster
  • krazypolkkrazypolk Posts: 577
    Step 1 is actually hearing the 15's right, which requires more than 100 wpc. Given they are 4 ohms, and have a 8" "sub" in them, most folks find they sound their best with around 200 wpc. Many have also upgraded the stock 8" driver with the Polk db840, which tightens up the response.......

    Even the LSiM 705's would want more than 100 wpc to really shine.

    I believe that the db840 has been discontinued for some time. Is there a current model which achieves the same results?
  • skrolskrol Posts: 2,829
    K_M wrote: »
    ...I have a love/hate relationship with our Lsi15's
    Would love to get rid of them at times, as we have other set ups that are more enjoyable, and have deeper bass also, but there is something seductive and just "right" about the lsi15's that nothing else quite has.

    Certain vocals and sounds on it are just like smooth and honey seeming.
    They do not rock out nor project vocals too forward, but they are so smooth and listenable for long term like nothing I have owned.

    Funny, I feel exactly the same. Placement makes a huge difference. Normally, my LSi15's are positioned too close to the back and side walls and the bass gets boomy. I also get odd reflections off the walls that create little dead spots as you change position horizontally. Yesterday I played with position, pulling the speakers out into the room more away from the back and side walls and pointed the speakers in a little. I really loved the sound. They stayed there until my wife came home from her trip.
    Stan

    Main 2ch:
    Polk LSi15 (DB840 upgrade), Parasound: P/LD-1100, HCA-1000A; Denon: DVD-2910, DRM-800A; Monster HTS3600-MKII, Grado SR-225i; Technics SL-J2, Parasound PPH-100.

    HT:
    Marantz SR7010, Polk: RTA11TL (RDO198-1, XO and Damping Upgrades), S4, CS250, PSW10 (DXi104 upgrade), Marantz UD5005, Pioneer PL-530, Panasonic TC-P42S60

    Other stuff:
    Denon: DRA-835R, AVR-888, DCD-660, DRM-700A, DRR-780; Polk: S8, Monitor 5A, 5B, TSi100, RM7; Pioneer: CT-6R; Onkyo CP-1046F; Ortofon OM5E, Marantz: PM5004, CD5004, CDR-615; Parasound C/PT-600, HCA-800ii, Sony CDP-650ESD, Technics SA 5070, B&W DM601
  • tlainharttlainhart Posts: 66
    krazypolk wrote: »

    I believe that the db840 has been discontinued for some time. Is there a current model which achieves the same results?

    I submitted an e-mail a couple of days back with the same question. I'll update this thread if/when I get an answer.

  • tlainharttlainhart Posts: 66
    I'm going to reset on this, and go with more power first. I'm currently deciding between a Parasound A21, or 2 Schiit Vidars.
  • WLDockWLDock Posts: 2,671
    edited January 7
    tlainhart wrote: »
    krazypolk wrote: »

    I believe that the db840 has been discontinued for some time. Is there a current model which achieves the same results?

    I submitted an e-mail a couple of days back with the same question. I'll update this thread if/when I get an answer.
    There are tons of 8" drivers around. I'm sure something can be found with some searching. Possibley the parameters of the original driver are are out there or find something with similar parameters as the dB840.


    FAMILY ROOM
    HDTV - Sharp AQUOS LC-70LE600U 70" | AVR/Streamer - Onkyo TX-NR3008 | Amp - Parasound HCA-1203A
    Blu-Ray/Media/Gaming - Sony PS3-320GB / Microsoft Xbox One | Broadcast - Xfinity X1 Platform
    Front Spkrs - Coming...DIY Statement II | Center Spkrs - Coming...DIY Statement II | Rear Spkrs - Artison Portrait LRS
    Sub - DIY Stereo Integrity HT 15 | Sub Amp - Dayton Audio SA1000
    Wire - Audioquest Type 4, BJC Belden 5000 | HDMI - BJC Belden | Power Cables - Pangea | Surge - Monster
  • skrolskrol Posts: 2,829
    edited January 8
    Here are the Polk sub parameters that I had gathered a while back. They are from sales literature, owner's manuals and the Polk Audio web site. There are some discrepancies between the sources.

    I seem to recall someone here used an MM840 and reported good results.
    Post edited by skrol on
    Stan

    Main 2ch:
    Polk LSi15 (DB840 upgrade), Parasound: P/LD-1100, HCA-1000A; Denon: DVD-2910, DRM-800A; Monster HTS3600-MKII, Grado SR-225i; Technics SL-J2, Parasound PPH-100.

    HT:
    Marantz SR7010, Polk: RTA11TL (RDO198-1, XO and Damping Upgrades), S4, CS250, PSW10 (DXi104 upgrade), Marantz UD5005, Pioneer PL-530, Panasonic TC-P42S60

    Other stuff:
    Denon: DRA-835R, AVR-888, DCD-660, DRM-700A, DRR-780; Polk: S8, Monitor 5A, 5B, TSi100, RM7; Pioneer: CT-6R; Onkyo CP-1046F; Ortofon OM5E, Marantz: PM5004, CD5004, CDR-615; Parasound C/PT-600, HCA-800ii, Sony CDP-650ESD, Technics SA 5070, B&W DM601
  • PSOVLSKPSOVLSK Posts: 4,140
    skrol wrote: »
    Placement makes a huge difference.

    This...in my opinion, is a big problem for both the LSiM 15 and 25. Placement is crucial with the side firing woofers. They are awesome speakers if your room allows you to set them up correctly, but if not, the performance drops off a bit. So I guess if your room allows for correct placement, maybe no need to upgrade. If not, it's a no brainer IMO.
    Things work out best for those who make the best of the way things work out.-John Wooden
  • tlainharttlainhart Posts: 66
    edited January 8
    WLDock wrote: »
    There are tons of 8" drivers around. I'm sure something can be found with some searching. Possibley the parameters of the original driver are are out there or find something with similar parameters as the dB840.

    The email that I received from Polk CS on the DB840 replacement:
    ...the woofer you would be looking for would be the DB842SVC, which is the direct replacement for the DB840. You can find it here:

    https://www.polkaudio.com/products/db842svc
  • skrolskrol Posts: 2,829
    So I take it the LSiM-705 are more placement forgiving?
    Stan

    Main 2ch:
    Polk LSi15 (DB840 upgrade), Parasound: P/LD-1100, HCA-1000A; Denon: DVD-2910, DRM-800A; Monster HTS3600-MKII, Grado SR-225i; Technics SL-J2, Parasound PPH-100.

    HT:
    Marantz SR7010, Polk: RTA11TL (RDO198-1, XO and Damping Upgrades), S4, CS250, PSW10 (DXi104 upgrade), Marantz UD5005, Pioneer PL-530, Panasonic TC-P42S60

    Other stuff:
    Denon: DRA-835R, AVR-888, DCD-660, DRM-700A, DRR-780; Polk: S8, Monitor 5A, 5B, TSi100, RM7; Pioneer: CT-6R; Onkyo CP-1046F; Ortofon OM5E, Marantz: PM5004, CD5004, CDR-615; Parasound C/PT-600, HCA-800ii, Sony CDP-650ESD, Technics SA 5070, B&W DM601
  • tlainharttlainhart Posts: 66
    Following up on this, prior to doing anything about the speaker, I'm going to get more power. I've got a Vidar coming this week, and if I like it (or don't dislike it), I'm going to get another. If I don't like it, I'm going to get my hands on a Parasound A21.


  • pawelmwopawelmwo Posts: 88
    skrol wrote: »
    K_M wrote: »
    ...I have a love/hate relationship with our Lsi15's
    Would love to get rid of them at times, as we have other set ups that are more enjoyable, and have deeper bass also, but there is something seductive and just "right" about the lsi15's that nothing else quite has.

    Certain vocals and sounds on it are just like smooth and honey seeming.
    They do not rock out nor project vocals too forward, but they are so smooth and listenable for long term like nothing I have owned.

    Funny, I feel exactly the same. Placement makes a huge difference. Normally, my LSi15's are positioned too close to the back and side walls and the bass gets boomy. I also get odd reflections off the walls that create little dead spots as you change position horizontally. Yesterday I played with position, pulling the speakers out into the room more away from the back and side walls and pointed the speakers in a little. I really loved the sound. They stayed there until my wife came home from her trip.

    I have a similar problem. My wife tries to get me to put them as close to the wall as possible. Right now they are a foot off the wall along with the TV. However I have another issue, to the left of my tower is a corner side that is connected to a in wall cabinet brick leading to a fireplace. I hate it but its the only place that makes sense in this open living room. Room correction did a good job with the boomy bass. However, I find myself missing some of it:) I'm thinking to put some bass trap behind the speaker in the corner and see if it works.
  • tlainharttlainhart Posts: 66
    I've attached a picture of my LSi15s. You can see that they're ~3 feet from the back walls, and same from the side walls. This in a room of 13x26x8. They sound best here - I can definitely hear more boomy bass in the corners behind them (which prompts me to move my equipment rack).

    I've got treatments on the back walls, the side walls and on the ceiling. Makes a big difference.

    cro6lvhxtlt9.jpg
  • pawelmwopawelmwo Posts: 88
    tlainhart wrote: »
    I've attached a picture of my LSi15s. You can see that they're ~3 feet from the back walls, and same from the side walls. This in a room of 13x26x8. They sound best here - I can definitely hear more boomy bass in the corners behind them (which prompts me to move my equipment rack).

    I've got treatments on the back walls, the side walls and on the ceiling. Makes a big difference.

    cro6lvhxtlt9.jpg

    That's nice. Acoustic panels are a hard sell in our living room. Best bet would be more bookshelves and acoustic wall 'art'. My wife said this looks acceptable. In a honeycomb pattern like this: Hexagon Acoustic Panel

    Also are those printable ones effective? Something like this:
    Acoustic Art Panels

    I guess trying to find something that's visually not an eyesore but improves acoustics.
  • tlainharttlainhart Posts: 66
    pawelmwo wrote: »

    That's nice. Acoustic panels are a hard sell in our living room. Best bet would be more bookshelves and acoustic wall 'art'. My wife said this looks acceptable. In a honeycomb pattern like this: Hexagon Acoustic Panel

    Also are those printable ones effective? Something like this:
    Acoustic Art Panels

    I guess trying to find something that's visually not an eyesore but improves acoustics.

    I needed absorption over diffusion. This room is not used much, so my wife was/is very tolerant. These white panels (GIK Acoustics) are surprisingly unobtrusive - you may find the hexagons to be similarly "quiet". And arguably I could get away with less.

    I don't have any experience with the Art Panels.

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