Trade my LSi15s for LSiM705s?

I really like my LSi15 speakers. Currently driving them with 100watt amp (Schitt Ragnarok), and have contemplated a power upgrade. I also own KEF LS50s, and swap between the two for different experiences.

With the LsiM705s going on sale from time-to-time, I've often wondered how much better they are than my 15s - the dog seeing the bone in the water's reflection.

Are the differences between these two really significant? This is in a 13x26 room with sound treatment. I'm using about half of the room, and don't listen crazy loud - mostly jazz/classical, vinyl.
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Comments

  • EndersShadow
    EndersShadow Posts: 17,517
    Step 1 is actually hearing the 15's right, which requires more than 100 wpc. Given they are 4 ohms, and have a 8" "sub" in them, most folks find they sound their best with around 200 wpc. Many have also upgraded the stock 8" driver with the Polk db840, which tightens up the response.......

    Even the LSiM 705's would want more than 100 wpc to really shine.
    "....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963)
  • WLDock
    WLDock Posts: 3,073
    edited January 2019
    tlainhart wrote: »
    This is in a 13x26 room with sound treatment. I'm using about half of the room, and don't listen crazy loud - mostly jazz/classical, vinyl.
    Sell your LSi15s, your LS50s, your amp, your preamp, etc and get the KEF LS50 Wireless.

    Later add a sub for a different experience.


    Just saying...

    2.2 Office Setup | LG 29UB55 21:9 UltraWide | HP Probook 630 G8 | Dell Latitude | Cabasse Stream Amp 100 | Boston Acoustics VS 240 | AUDIORAX Desk Stands | Mirage Omni S8 sub1 | Mirage Omni S8 Sub2
  • Step 1 is actually hearing the 15's right, which requires more than 100 wpc. Given they are 4 ohms, and have a 8" "sub" in them, most folks find they sound their best with around 200 wpc. Many have also upgraded the stock 8" driver with the Polk db840, which tightens up the response.......

    Even the LSiM 705's would want more than 100 wpc to really shine.

    Thanks. I have considered a power upgrade. I had a Rogue Audio Sphinx w/ 200w @ 4ohms, but sold it when I heard the grip on the speakers that the Ragnarok had at 100w@4ohms. Something about that amplification really made the difference.

    I'm also aware of the woofer and crossover upgrades. But I figured if I'm to go that route, why not consider the LSiM705s.
  • PSOVLSK
    PSOVLSK Posts: 5,021
    I've owned LSi15's with upgraded sub and crossover and I liked them a lot. Based on my very limited experience with the 705, I think they are clearly the better speaker and a worthwhile upgrade.
    Things work out best for those who make the best of the way things work out.-John Wooden
  • erniejade
    erniejade Posts: 6,288
    In my den ( the acoustically challenged room) the kef LS50w and a sub sounded much better to my ears then the lsim 705. I did have them at the same time.
    The KEF ls50w sub combo had a much wider and deeper soundstage as well.
    Musical Fidelity Tri-Vista 300, Audioquest Thunderbird Zero Speaker Cable, Tyler Highland H2, Audioquest Thunderbird Interconnect, Innuos Zen MK3 W4S recovery, Revolution Audio Labs USB & Ethernet, Border Patrol SE-I, Audioquest Niagara 5000 & Thunder, Cullen Crossover II PC's.
  • K_M
    K_M Posts: 1,627
    PSOVLSK wrote: »
    I've owned LSi15's with upgraded sub and crossover and I liked them a lot. Based on my very limited experience with the 705, I think they are clearly the better speaker and a worthwhile upgrade.

    I have a love/hate relationship with our Lsi15's
    Would love to get rid of them at times, as we have other set ups that are more enjoyable, and have deeper bass also, but there is something seductive and just "right" about the lsi15's that nothing else quite has.

    Certain vocals and sounds on it are just like smooth and honey seeming.
    They do not rock out nor project vocals too forward, but they are so smooth and listenable for long term like nothing I have owned.
  • erniejade wrote: »
    In my den ( the acoustically challenged room) the kef LS50w and a sub sounded much better to my ears then the lsim 705. I did have them at the same time.
    The KEF ls50w sub combo had a much wider and deeper soundstage as well.

    The KEF does imaging really well, for sure. And it has a presence and depth to it that is great. The LSi15 does some things different/better to my ear. If I had to have just one, not sure which I would pick.

    I could never get a sub to sound good with either the LSi15 or the LS50. It's a PSW500 or something like that - just never really added anything but boom.
  • tlainhart
    tlainhart Posts: 66
    edited January 2019
    K_M wrote: »
    ...but they are so smooth and listenable for long term like nothing I have owned.

    Agreed.

  • rooftop59
    rooftop59 Posts: 7,952
    tlainhart wrote: »
    erniejade wrote: »
    In my den ( the acoustically challenged room) the kef LS50w and a sub sounded much better to my ears then the lsim 705. I did have them at the same time.
    The KEF ls50w sub combo had a much wider and deeper soundstage as well.

    The KEF does imaging really well, for sure. And it has a presence and depth to it that is great. The LSi15 does some things different/better to my ear. If I had to have just one, not sure which I would pick.

    I could never get a sub to sound good with either the LSi15 or the LS50. It's a PSW500 or something like that - just never really added anything but boom.

    That’s because Polk does not make great subs. You need something tight and linear with an accurate crossover. I have a Martin Logan dynamo original that hits into the mid 20s and is very quick and accurate with a precise crossover. You would be able to integrate it with either of those speakers imho...and they can be had for about 200-250 shipped on eBay.
    Living Room 2.2: Usher BE-718 "tiny dancers"; Dual DIY Dayton audio RSS210HF-4 Subs with Dayton SPA-250 amps; Arcam SA30; Musical Fidelity A308; Sony UBP-x1000es; Squeezebox Touch with Bolder Power Supply
    Game Room 5.1.4:
    Denon AVR-X4200w; Sony UBP-x700; Definitive Technology Power Monitor 900 mains, CLR-3000 center, StudioMonitor 350 surrounds, ProMonitor 800 atmos x4; Sub - Monoprice Monolith 15in THX Ultra

    Bedroom 2.1
    Cambridge Azur 551r; Polk RT25i; ACI Titan Subwoofer
  • erniejade
    erniejade Posts: 6,288
    tlainhart wrote: »
    erniejade wrote: »
    In my den ( the acoustically challenged room) the kef LS50w and a sub sounded much better to my ears then the lsim 705. I did have them at the same time.
    The KEF ls50w sub combo had a much wider and deeper soundstage as well.

    The KEF does imaging really well, for sure. And it has a presence and depth to it that is great. The LSi15 does some things different/better to my ear. If I had to have just one, not sure which I would pick.

    I could never get a sub to sound good with either the LSi15 or the LS50. It's a PSW500 or something like that - just never really added anything but boom.

    This is one reason why i said the ls50w. The electric crossover built in makes it seamless unless you have the sub in the wrong spot for your room.

    I missed the smoothness of the 9's I picked up the lsi25. I keep going between them and the sda3.1 in the livingroom. I agree with what everyone else has said on smooth and easy to listen to for hours on end. Again, its all personal preference. No wrong or right answer on this one.
    Musical Fidelity Tri-Vista 300, Audioquest Thunderbird Zero Speaker Cable, Tyler Highland H2, Audioquest Thunderbird Interconnect, Innuos Zen MK3 W4S recovery, Revolution Audio Labs USB & Ethernet, Border Patrol SE-I, Audioquest Niagara 5000 & Thunder, Cullen Crossover II PC's.
  • rooftop59 wrote: »
    That’s because Polk does not make great subs. You need something tight and linear with an accurate crossover. I have a Martin Logan dynamo original that hits into the mid 20s and is very quick and accurate with a precise crossover. You would be able to integrate it with either of those speakers imho...and they can be had for about 200-250 shipped on eBay.

    Thanks. I'll look for that sub. I've also read good things about this Rythmik L12 sub for 2-channel.

    Something else I've read from a couple of sources is that that 2 subs are preferred.

  • K_M
    K_M Posts: 1,627
    rooftop59 wrote: »
    tlainhart wrote: »
    erniejade wrote: »
    In my den ( the acoustically challenged room) the kef LS50w and a sub sounded much better to my ears then the lsim 705. I did have them at the same time.
    The KEF ls50w sub combo had a much wider and deeper soundstage as well.

    The KEF does imaging really well, for sure. And it has a presence and depth to it that is great. The LSi15 does some things different/better to my ear. If I had to have just one, not sure which I would pick.

    I could never get a sub to sound good with either the LSi15 or the LS50. It's a PSW500 or something like that - just never really added anything but boom.

    That’s because Polk does not make great subs. You need something tight and linear with an accurate crossover. I have a Martin Logan dynamo original that hits into the mid 20s and is very quick and accurate with a precise crossover. You would be able to integrate it with either of those speakers imho...and they can be had for about 200-250 shipped on eBay.

    We had the Polk Lsi Subwoofer, the one with a 10" sub on each side, in Piano gloss.
    We really liked it a lot until the amp broke.
    As you say it did not hit in the 20s at all, but was fairly tight and nice with music.
  • erniejade wrote: »
    This is one reason why i said the ls50w. The electric crossover built in makes it seamless unless you have the sub in the wrong spot for your room.

    The reason why the LS50w is a non-starter for me is that I have analog sources, as well as a good DAC. If I was starting fresh with digital sources, the LS50w is very attractive.

  • erniejade
    erniejade Posts: 6,288
    Got ya. I only have 2 analog sources and use a schiit sys passive unit to go between the lumin d1 streamer / dac and Jolida d9 tube pre for the turntable.

    Musical Fidelity Tri-Vista 300, Audioquest Thunderbird Zero Speaker Cable, Tyler Highland H2, Audioquest Thunderbird Interconnect, Innuos Zen MK3 W4S recovery, Revolution Audio Labs USB & Ethernet, Border Patrol SE-I, Audioquest Niagara 5000 & Thunder, Cullen Crossover II PC's.
  • stangman67
    stangman67 Posts: 2,179
    edited January 2019
    Kind of an aside, but Ls50w are on the short list for a possible system replacement type of platform. I love my whole complicated setup but (now fiancé) waf might force me to downsize. LS50W are something I could easily sell to her in the main room with a turntable and bluesound node
    2 Channel in my home attic/bar/man cave

    2 Channel Focal Kanta 3 I Modwright SWL9.0 Anniversary Pre I Modwright PH9.0X I Modwright KWA-150SE I VPI Prime Signature w/ Soundsmith Zephyr MIMC I Lumin U2 Mini I North Star Designs Intenso DAC I Audience OHNO ICs/Audience Furutech FP-S55N and FP-S032N Power Cables/Acoustic Zen Satori I Isotek Sirius
  • WLDock
    WLDock Posts: 3,073
    edited January 2019
    Several have downsized from a rack of gear and still have and analog source. Their marketing guy Johan Coorg told me he and the Mrs. decided to do the same in one of their rooms. For multiple analog sources, there's audiophile grade RCA switchers out there. However, I would think one would really need to be sold on them to downsize.

    My other half doesn't want a large system in our living room. I'm hoping to pitch the Wireless at some point.
    2.2 Office Setup | LG 29UB55 21:9 UltraWide | HP Probook 630 G8 | Dell Latitude | Cabasse Stream Amp 100 | Boston Acoustics VS 240 | AUDIORAX Desk Stands | Mirage Omni S8 sub1 | Mirage Omni S8 Sub2
  • krazypolk
    krazypolk Posts: 745
    Step 1 is actually hearing the 15's right, which requires more than 100 wpc. Given they are 4 ohms, and have a 8" "sub" in them, most folks find they sound their best with around 200 wpc. Many have also upgraded the stock 8" driver with the Polk db840, which tightens up the response.......

    Even the LSiM 705's would want more than 100 wpc to really shine.

    I believe that the db840 has been discontinued for some time. Is there a current model which achieves the same results?
  • skrol
    skrol Posts: 3,330
    K_M wrote: »
    ...I have a love/hate relationship with our Lsi15's
    Would love to get rid of them at times, as we have other set ups that are more enjoyable, and have deeper bass also, but there is something seductive and just "right" about the lsi15's that nothing else quite has.

    Certain vocals and sounds on it are just like smooth and honey seeming.
    They do not rock out nor project vocals too forward, but they are so smooth and listenable for long term like nothing I have owned.

    Funny, I feel exactly the same. Placement makes a huge difference. Normally, my LSi15's are positioned too close to the back and side walls and the bass gets boomy. I also get odd reflections off the walls that create little dead spots as you change position horizontally. Yesterday I played with position, pulling the speakers out into the room more away from the back and side walls and pointed the speakers in a little. I really loved the sound. They stayed there until my wife came home from her trip.
    Stan

    Main 2ch:
    Polk LSi15 (DB840 upgrade), Parasound: P/LD-1100, HCA-1000A; Denon: DVD-2910, DRM-800A; Benchmark DAC1, Monster HTS3600-MKII, Grado SR-225i; Technics SL-J2, Parasound PPH-100.

    HT:
    Marantz SR7010, Polk: RTA11TL (RDO198-1, XO and Damping Upgrades), S4, CS250, PSW110 , Marantz UD5005, Pioneer PL-530, Panasonic TC-P42S60

    Other stuff:
    Denon: DRA-835R, AVR-888, DCD-660, DRM-700A, DRR-780; Polk: S8, Monitor 5A, 5B, TSi100, RM7, PSW10 (DXi104 upgrade); Pioneer: CT-6R; Onkyo CP-1046F; Ortofon OM5E, Marantz: PM5004, CD5004, CDR-615; Parasound C/PT-600, HCA-800ii, Sony CDP-650ESD, Technics SA 5070, B&W DM601
  • krazypolk wrote: »

    I believe that the db840 has been discontinued for some time. Is there a current model which achieves the same results?

    I submitted an e-mail a couple of days back with the same question. I'll update this thread if/when I get an answer.

  • I'm going to reset on this, and go with more power first. I'm currently deciding between a Parasound A21, or 2 Schiit Vidars.
  • WLDock
    WLDock Posts: 3,073
    edited January 2019
    tlainhart wrote: »
    krazypolk wrote: »

    I believe that the db840 has been discontinued for some time. Is there a current model which achieves the same results?

    I submitted an e-mail a couple of days back with the same question. I'll update this thread if/when I get an answer.
    There are tons of 8" drivers around. I'm sure something can be found with some searching. Possibley the parameters of the original driver are are out there or find something with similar parameters as the dB840.


    2.2 Office Setup | LG 29UB55 21:9 UltraWide | HP Probook 630 G8 | Dell Latitude | Cabasse Stream Amp 100 | Boston Acoustics VS 240 | AUDIORAX Desk Stands | Mirage Omni S8 sub1 | Mirage Omni S8 Sub2
  • skrol
    skrol Posts: 3,330
    edited January 2019
    Here are the Polk sub parameters that I had gathered a while back. They are from sales literature, owner's manuals and the Polk Audio web site. There are some discrepancies between the sources.

    I seem to recall someone here used an MM840 and reported good results.
    Post edited by skrol on
    Stan

    Main 2ch:
    Polk LSi15 (DB840 upgrade), Parasound: P/LD-1100, HCA-1000A; Denon: DVD-2910, DRM-800A; Benchmark DAC1, Monster HTS3600-MKII, Grado SR-225i; Technics SL-J2, Parasound PPH-100.

    HT:
    Marantz SR7010, Polk: RTA11TL (RDO198-1, XO and Damping Upgrades), S4, CS250, PSW110 , Marantz UD5005, Pioneer PL-530, Panasonic TC-P42S60

    Other stuff:
    Denon: DRA-835R, AVR-888, DCD-660, DRM-700A, DRR-780; Polk: S8, Monitor 5A, 5B, TSi100, RM7, PSW10 (DXi104 upgrade); Pioneer: CT-6R; Onkyo CP-1046F; Ortofon OM5E, Marantz: PM5004, CD5004, CDR-615; Parasound C/PT-600, HCA-800ii, Sony CDP-650ESD, Technics SA 5070, B&W DM601
  • PSOVLSK
    PSOVLSK Posts: 5,021
    skrol wrote: »
    Placement makes a huge difference.

    This...in my opinion, is a big problem for both the LSiM 15 and 25. Placement is crucial with the side firing woofers. They are awesome speakers if your room allows you to set them up correctly, but if not, the performance drops off a bit. So I guess if your room allows for correct placement, maybe no need to upgrade. If not, it's a no brainer IMO.
    Things work out best for those who make the best of the way things work out.-John Wooden
  • tlainhart
    tlainhart Posts: 66
    edited January 2019
    WLDock wrote: »
    There are tons of 8" drivers around. I'm sure something can be found with some searching. Possibley the parameters of the original driver are are out there or find something with similar parameters as the dB840.

    The email that I received from Polk CS on the DB840 replacement:
    ...the woofer you would be looking for would be the DB842SVC, which is the direct replacement for the DB840. You can find it here:

    https://www.polkaudio.com/products/db842svc
  • skrol
    skrol Posts: 3,330
    So I take it the LSiM-705 are more placement forgiving?
    Stan

    Main 2ch:
    Polk LSi15 (DB840 upgrade), Parasound: P/LD-1100, HCA-1000A; Denon: DVD-2910, DRM-800A; Benchmark DAC1, Monster HTS3600-MKII, Grado SR-225i; Technics SL-J2, Parasound PPH-100.

    HT:
    Marantz SR7010, Polk: RTA11TL (RDO198-1, XO and Damping Upgrades), S4, CS250, PSW110 , Marantz UD5005, Pioneer PL-530, Panasonic TC-P42S60

    Other stuff:
    Denon: DRA-835R, AVR-888, DCD-660, DRM-700A, DRR-780; Polk: S8, Monitor 5A, 5B, TSi100, RM7, PSW10 (DXi104 upgrade); Pioneer: CT-6R; Onkyo CP-1046F; Ortofon OM5E, Marantz: PM5004, CD5004, CDR-615; Parasound C/PT-600, HCA-800ii, Sony CDP-650ESD, Technics SA 5070, B&W DM601
  • Following up on this, prior to doing anything about the speaker, I'm going to get more power. I've got a Vidar coming this week, and if I like it (or don't dislike it), I'm going to get another. If I don't like it, I'm going to get my hands on a Parasound A21.


  • pawelmwo
    pawelmwo Posts: 137
    skrol wrote: »
    K_M wrote: »
    ...I have a love/hate relationship with our Lsi15's
    Would love to get rid of them at times, as we have other set ups that are more enjoyable, and have deeper bass also, but there is something seductive and just "right" about the lsi15's that nothing else quite has.

    Certain vocals and sounds on it are just like smooth and honey seeming.
    They do not rock out nor project vocals too forward, but they are so smooth and listenable for long term like nothing I have owned.

    Funny, I feel exactly the same. Placement makes a huge difference. Normally, my LSi15's are positioned too close to the back and side walls and the bass gets boomy. I also get odd reflections off the walls that create little dead spots as you change position horizontally. Yesterday I played with position, pulling the speakers out into the room more away from the back and side walls and pointed the speakers in a little. I really loved the sound. They stayed there until my wife came home from her trip.

    I have a similar problem. My wife tries to get me to put them as close to the wall as possible. Right now they are a foot off the wall along with the TV. However I have another issue, to the left of my tower is a corner side that is connected to a in wall cabinet brick leading to a fireplace. I hate it but its the only place that makes sense in this open living room. Room correction did a good job with the boomy bass. However, I find myself missing some of it:) I'm thinking to put some bass trap behind the speaker in the corner and see if it works.
  • I've attached a picture of my LSi15s. You can see that they're ~3 feet from the back walls, and same from the side walls. This in a room of 13x26x8. They sound best here - I can definitely hear more boomy bass in the corners behind them (which prompts me to move my equipment rack).

    I've got treatments on the back walls, the side walls and on the ceiling. Makes a big difference.

    cro6lvhxtlt9.jpg
  • pawelmwo
    pawelmwo Posts: 137
    tlainhart wrote: »
    I've attached a picture of my LSi15s. You can see that they're ~3 feet from the back walls, and same from the side walls. This in a room of 13x26x8. They sound best here - I can definitely hear more boomy bass in the corners behind them (which prompts me to move my equipment rack).

    I've got treatments on the back walls, the side walls and on the ceiling. Makes a big difference.

    cro6lvhxtlt9.jpg

    That's nice. Acoustic panels are a hard sell in our living room. Best bet would be more bookshelves and acoustic wall 'art'. My wife said this looks acceptable. In a honeycomb pattern like this: Hexagon Acoustic Panel

    Also are those printable ones effective? Something like this:
    Acoustic Art Panels

    I guess trying to find something that's visually not an eyesore but improves acoustics.
  • pawelmwo wrote: »

    That's nice. Acoustic panels are a hard sell in our living room. Best bet would be more bookshelves and acoustic wall 'art'. My wife said this looks acceptable. In a honeycomb pattern like this: Hexagon Acoustic Panel

    Also are those printable ones effective? Something like this:
    Acoustic Art Panels

    I guess trying to find something that's visually not an eyesore but improves acoustics.

    I needed absorption over diffusion. This room is not used much, so my wife was/is very tolerant. These white panels (GIK Acoustics) are surprisingly unobtrusive - you may find the hexagons to be similarly "quiet". And arguably I could get away with less.

    I don't have any experience with the Art Panels.