Center channel for 2.3 TL

gmcman · December 2018

I'm using the 2.3 TL's as my 2ch setup, but they also share the space of my big TV so I'm going to let them serve double-duty for movies.

I have a CS350, and CS400 but haven't used the 400 much as it has been with the RT800's in the game room.

Moving forward, I have a Def Tech Pro 2000 coming as a trial but that may get paired into another system...jury is out until I get ears on it.

My main question is...would a CS1000P blend well with the 2.3's or would the powered subs be too overbearing?

Another consideration based on my other thread is the Def Tech CLR 3000 and while a different design, it uses 6.5" mid drivers so maybe the midrange might blend well, possibly better than a 5- 1/4" driver.

I understand a timbre match is essential, but neither share the drivers of the SDA's so looking for possible user experience on these larger centers.

FestYboy · December 2018

RTA 8tl? I have the 350LS but I have it mated to RTi A6 for the front 3. Haven't brought any of my SDA pairs down to the theater to play with yet.

honestaquarian · December 2018

Doug you saw and heard the CS1000p with my 3.1TL's and how well it blended. Granted it was only a brief surround audition, but you heard how synergistic a match it is. Why would it overpower your larger 2.3TL's???
As I told another poster (and you come to think of it) the CS1000p is the same center as the CS400. Just with a pair of powered woofers on each end. It is also a good match for the 2.3's and at least you have it in your possession. The CS1000p is not so easy to find anymore. You would need to look and wait and look and wait.........................................
Set it up and set it to large and keep it moving. No crossover is needed.

dpowell · December 2018

I've owned the cs400 and cs1000p. While those are excellent center channels, they have a brighter high, less natural vocals and don't blend well with SDAs to my ears. If you choose to use the speakers you named, they won't overpower the SDAs, especially if you are using any room correction capabilities in your AVR. It will auto set speaker levels to balance volume.

My choice for center to pair with my 2.3TLs is the LSiM706C. Vocals are much more natural sounding than the RT series center speakers and it holds its own and blends beautifully with the 2.3s.

Enjoy the journey and try out a few centers to see what sounds best to your ears.

BC6 · December 2018

I have the CSiA6 center with my 2.3TLs, which probably sound similar to yours because of the CMR caps. I'm not super picky about timbre matching for HT, but I think it sounds really good. Voices sound full and resonant. I tried a quick timbre matching experiment by switching back and forth between the 2 channel, 11 channel, and surround sound while playing music, and while there wasn't an exact match, it was pretty close. Eventually I would like to try the LSiM706C though. I probably would have bought that if I had enough money when I bought the CSiA6.

ddog · December 2018

Hi all...I'm new here but longgggg time lurcker..
I've recently replaced my DT clr3000 cc with a pair of RTA-11TL's as my cc.
I moved to an AT screen and built new cabinets for the 11's and mounted them behind the screen.
They sound awesome!!

FestYboy · December 2018

We're you able to maintain the enclosure's internal volume, and how did you deal with the combing from the placement? Oh, what was your final DC resistance to the amp?

pitdogg2 · December 2018

Oh dear God my eyes!!!
That would be a 4 ohm load i do believe

ddog · December 2018

Yes.. I maintained the same volume as the original cabinets.
Yes this is a 4 ohm load now but I'm driving them with an Emotive XPA-1 monoblock amplifier.
I'm not experiencing any combing issues what's so ever. It's nice not having the voices coming from below the screen now...
These produce an excellent natural male voice along with great clarity.
I used to really hate listening to music while the cc was on but now I just can live without it.

I forgot to take a picture after I installed the deflector under the top driver.

ddog · December 2018

pitdogg2 wrote: »

Oh dear God my eyes!!!
That would be a 4 ohm load i do believe

I completely agree... its ugly!
Luckily its behind the screen...lol

verb · December 2018

ddog wrote: »

Hi all...I'm new here but longgggg time lurcker..
I've recently replaced my DT clr3000 cc with a pair of RTA-11TL's as my cc.
I moved to an AT screen and built new cabinets for the 11's and mounted them behind the screen.
They sound awesome!!

Hey welcome to the forum. But oh no, yet another Dog!

FestYboy · December 2018

I like it! Not a fan of taking a pair of TLs out of circulation, but that's a great way to solve a potential voicing and placement problem.

ddog · December 2018

Thanks..
I found these on Ebay, turned out to be local with beat up cabinets. The owner did the 0198 and crossover up grade so they worked out perfect for my situation.
Now I have a dt 3000 and Elac cc stand sitting around... hummm

pitdogg2 · December 2018

Hey pal I've had my shots against my better judgement
Owehoooooo

gmcman · December 2018

honestaquarian wrote: »

Doug you saw and heard the CS1000p with my 3.1TL's and how well it blended. Granted it was only a brief surround audition, but you heard how synergistic a match it is. Why would it overpower your larger 2.3TL's???

Maybe not overpower, but possibly slightly heavy on the mid bass? I don’t know, purely speculation. Yes, it did sound good but hard to tell without hearing movie dialogue.

dpowell wrote: »

I've owned the cs400 and cs1000p. While those are excellent center channels, they have a brighter high, less natural vocals and don't blend well with SDAs to my ears.

That’s what I was pondering since being a long time RT800/CS400 user, would I have even more of that “RT” sound with the CS1000p or would the bass blend nicely into the lower end.

I agree, the CS400 is an excellent center, but after mods to the SDA it seems just slightly off timbre now.

To it’s defense, after the Audessey room correction, I did find the “dialog level” in the Marantz remote app to lower the output of the center slightly and that did help...same with the CS350.

dpowell wrote: »

My choice for center to pair with my 2.3TLs is the LSiM706C. Vocals are much more natural sounding than the RT series center speakers and it holds its own and blends beautifully with the 2.3s.

Definitely worth a try, I like the fact it uses a 3 1/4” midrange and I would assume it gives a more seamless blend into the midrange.

honestaquarian · December 2018

Doug
Sometime in this life when you have some free time (hopefully before we’re both too old to remember what this was all about

)You have an open invitation to come back over and listen and see for yourself. Since I have some modified/upgraded 3.1TL’s you can hear with your own ears how the CS1000p blends. Just so you know I replaced the tweeter in it. Both the original CS-400 and the CS-1000p come with SL-6502 tweeters. The CS-400i comes with an SL-6506 and blue colored woofer (which are the same as the ones in the CS-400 just with blue coloring so you can see it’s a newer model???) I replaced the tweeter in mine with an SL-6506. Methinks it’s a better tweeter.
Anyway text me.

pitdogg2 · December 2018

honestaquarian wrote: »

Doug
Sometime in this life when you have some free time (hopefully before we’re both too old to remember what this was all about )You have an open invitation to come back over and listen and see for yourself. Since I have some modified/upgraded 3.1TL’s you can hear with your own ears how the CS1000p blends. Just so you know I replaced the tweeter in it. Both the original CS-400 and the CS-1000p come with SL-6502 tweeters. The CS-400i comes with an SL-6506 and blue colored woofer (which are the same as the ones in the CS-400 just with blue coloring so you can see it’s a newer model???) I replaced the tweeter in mine with an SL-6506. Methinks it’s a better tweeter.
Anyway text me.

I somewhat disagree. RT55's (black) did NOT use the same woofers as the RT55i's (blue) and yes both used different tweeters as their crossover's were different.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Polk-Audio-RT55-RT800-Speaker-Woofer-MW7017/132641362399?epid=25019950342&hash=item1ee20a91df:g:MDEAAOSwi7RZE3Wg:sc:USPSPriority!61705!US!-1:rk:1:pf:0

Crossover was REO455-1

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Polk-Audio-MW7200-RT2000i-RT1000Pi-RT55i-RTi100-speaker-6-5-woofer/132702556498?epid=1650757286&hash=item1ee5b05152:g:MtoAAOSw1zpbSQk7:sc:USPSPriority!61705!US!-1:rk:2:pf:0

Polk CS400 woofer

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Polk-Audio-CS400-Center-Speaker-Woofer-MW7018/132238621106?epid=16018333926&hash=item1eca0939b2:g:MDEAAOSwi7RZE3Wg:sc:USPSPriority!61705!US!-1:rk:2:pf:0

Polk CS400i woofer

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Polk-Audio-MW7204-CS400i-speaker-6-5-woofer/132702559487?epid=805744732&hash=item1ee5b05cff:g:KvoAAOSwFuZbSQop:sc:USPSPriority!61705!US!-1:rk:3:pf:0

So even the speakers and centers use different driver numbers. One would think if they were the same drivers Polk would not of stocked all the drivers and put different numbers on them. They would of had the same numbers for both the CS400i and RT55i drivers and ditto for the RT55 and CS400

indyhawg · December 2018

dpowell wrote: »

I've owned the cs400 and cs1000p. While those are excellent center channels, they have a brighter high, less natural vocals and don't blend well with SDAs to my ears. If you choose to use the speakers you named, they won't overpower the SDAs, especially if you are using any room correction capabilities in your AVR. It will auto set speaker levels to balance volume.

My choice for center to pair with my 2.3TLs is the LSiM706C. Vocals are much more natural sounding than the RT series center speakers and it holds its own and blends beautifully with the 2.3s.

Enjoy the journey and try out a few centers to see what sounds best to your ears.

I have tried the CSIA6 and the CS400 with my SDA's. The CS400 is a better match for my 2.3TLs IMHO. I really was not too crazy for the CSIA6 as I found it underwhelming. The CS400 is a better match in my setup but I am still not satisfied. I was considering a CS1000p, but after reading some of the comments about it being a bright speaker, I think I will pursue a LSIM 706C. I will hold out until the next friends and family sale, unless Russ wants to buy one and store it at my house.

honestaquarian · December 2018

I had called Polk Audio a while back when I bought a pair of RT-55’s and was told the only difference was the tweeters and the blue coloring on the woofers. They said it was the same with all of the speakers which were later upgraded to “i” status. Including the centers.
As for brightness I guess that is very subjective. I don’t have a problem with brightness on my CS1000p. Nor did I have it with the CS-400 when I had it, unless the program material was mixed brightly (like most movies are in order to compensate for the sound coming through the screen and dispersion out into the large hall that is the theater) THX processing always applies a reciprocal EQ to tame that.
Outside of that, in most cases I have trouble trying to tell if the center is playing or if the sound is coming from the 3.1’s. I usually have to look at the display on my preamp.

ddog · December 2018

Idk guys... for me the center channel is the star of the show...(for movies)... and my front Lt & Rt's blend in underneath the cc. More of an effects channel. So "for me" my cc has to be BIG and commanding, be completely full range, clean and clear. Over 80% comes from your cc so it cant be small and wimpy in any way.
Oh and location in very important also ... it can't be to low or to high or it just won't sound right...

Just my thoughts on the subject tho...

rooftop59 · December 2018

Over 80%??? Where did ya get that number @ddog?

honestaquarian · December 2018

He’s telling the truth. The vast majority of what you hear in most movie soundtracks comes from the center channel.

ddog · December 2018

rooftop59 wrote: »

Over 80%??? Where did ya get that number @ddog?

If you can decode DD/DTS Master Audio or Atmos/DTSX... turn off or disable your cc speaker and you'll see for yourself just how much content actually comes from the center channel.

pitdogg2 · December 2018

Yes I'd agree a good center is a must.

honestaquarian · December 2018

@pitdogg2 It makes sense that the part numbers on the blue woofers versus the gray woofers would be different in order to differentiate them in the warehouses and computers. If they had the same part numbers then a lot of mistakes would get made even if they were different colors. I have seen this sort of mishigas happen all of the time when people aren't detail oriented/paying attention.
Now as to the differences in the part numbers between the center speakers and the RT55's. Since they were in different cabinet volumes, they would have different winding's on the voice coils. Same as the drivers in the different SDA's, even though they looked alike.

dpowell · December 2018

gmcman wrote: »

dpowell wrote: »

I've owned the cs400 and cs1000p. While those are excellent center channels, they have a brighter high, less natural vocals and don't blend well with SDAs to my ears.

That’s what I was pondering since being a long time RT800/CS400 user, would I have even more of that “RT” sound with the CS1000p or would the bass blend nicely into the lower end.

I agree, the CS400 is an excellent center, but after mods to the SDA it seems just slightly off timbre now.

To it’s defense, after the Audessey room correction, I did find the “dialog level” in the Marantz remote app to lower the output of the center slightly and that did help...same with the CS350.

dpowell wrote: »

My choice for center to pair with my 2.3TLs is the LSiM706C. Vocals are much more natural sounding than the RT series center speakers and it holds its own and blends beautifully with the 2.3s.

Definitely worth a try, I like the fact it uses a 3 1/4” midrange and I would assume it gives a more seamless blend into the midrange.

My progression of ownership of RT series speakers was RT2000's with CS400, then RT5000 system (RT3000 plus CS1000P) and finally SRT's with the SRT center channel. The highs are all basically the same across the the RT series family (which is why I ultimately ditched them all for a pair of SDA's for both music and HT). What improved as you progressed up the models was mid range and bass performance (and the addition of SDA on the SRT's of course). The CS1000P is a CS400 with two additional mid drivers and an internal amp to improve bass performance. The base ports are moved off of the center pair of drivers and placed behind the outside powered drivers in the CS1000P. That bass performance gain is substantially noticeable. Unfortunately, the highs are the same. The CS1000P is the hands-down winner by a mile between the two.

To your second comment on the LSiM706C, I can't speak to whether or not the 3 1/2 driver helps blend highs and midrange but the sonic engine that Polk developed for this series has very natural sounding vocals that the CS series of center channel speakers simply cannot accomplish.

If you keep your eyes open, you can generally pick up a used 706 for about the same or not much more than a CS1000P simply because the 1000's are getting harder to find and are holding their value.

Mikey081057 · December 2018

Didn't somebody use a pair of SDA CRS's as their center with SDA's?

dpowell · December 2018

indyhawg wrote: »

....The CS400 is a better match in my setup but I am still not satisfied.

Exactly where I was for a long time. There's something that you can't quite put your finger on about the timbre of the CS center speakers. If you listen to your 2.3's independent of the center, they have a fantastic natural warmth. When you add the CS400 back into the mix, it becomes apparent that something just isn't quite right.

The way I discovered the LSiM series as a possibility in my HT was when Polk first was offering a pair of LSiM707's to demo in-house at no cost. I picked up the pair from the Polk warehouse in Vista and had them for a couple of weeks. After demo'ing them as a stereo pair, I had @nooshinjohn and a few others over for a local gathering. During that gathering @nooshinjohn suggested we try a single 707 in the center speaker position. Wow was that ever an eye opener. I have no regrets on purchasing the 706 and have never found myself wanting to look elsewhere.

honestaquarian · December 2018

I will say that whenever I changed cables or amplification I could definitely hear a difference with both my CS-400 and my CS-1000p. Sometimes the dialog and blending of the center would be perfect and sometimes not so much.
I would suggest to those of you who have problems with the front channel timbre matching to make sure you are using identical cabling across the three front loudspeakers and I also HIGHLY recommend biwiring.

dpowell · December 2018

honestaquarian wrote: »

I will say that whenever I changed cables or amplification I could definitely hear a difference with both my CS-400 and my CS-1000p. Sometimes the dialog and blending of the center would be perfect and sometimes not so much.
I would suggest to those of you who have problems with the front channel timbre matching to make sure you are using identical cabling across the three front loudspeakers and I also HIGHLY recommend biwiring.

Definitely agree on the amplification. My first amp with the RT series was an Adcom. Pairing a bright amp with bright speakers produced an extremely bright, almost harsh sound. A Parasound amp improved things significantly.

dpowell · December 2018

Mikey081057 wrote: »

Didn't somebody use a pair of SDA CRS's as their center with SDA's?

I'm sure it's been tried. I tried a Monitor 5 but it could not keep up with the big boys.

Center channel for 2.3 TL

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