Do bigger magnets automatically mean better?

Dabutcher
Dabutcher Posts: 2,588
edited September 2018 in Speakers
voyh58o8t4w1.jpeg
Auto forum seems dead? I am sound deadening four door panels. Stock JBL’s are eleven years old. So I bought Polk MM1 ‘s to replace them. Thinking it’s an upgrade. But magnets on Polks are almost nonexistent compared to JBL’s. Have not tried them out yet. Thanks. D
MIT Magnum MH-750, Monster HTS 5100MKII, Sony 77" Class - A80CJ Series - 4K UHD OLED,PS4, Def Tech 15” sub,LSIM 706c, Sunfire Signature Grand 425 x 4,Parasound hca 120, LSiM 702 x 4, Oppo 103D, SDA SRS 1.2, Pioneer Elite SC63 , Pioneer Elite BDP-05 “Why did you get married if you wanted big speakers?”
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Comments

  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 27,964
    Looks like Polk is using neo versus jbl is ferrite
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
  • Dabutcher
    Dabutcher Posts: 2,588
    Is that good or bad? Thanks. D
    MIT Magnum MH-750, Monster HTS 5100MKII, Sony 77" Class - A80CJ Series - 4K UHD OLED,PS4, Def Tech 15” sub,LSIM 706c, Sunfire Signature Grand 425 x 4,Parasound hca 120, LSiM 702 x 4, Oppo 103D, SDA SRS 1.2, Pioneer Elite SC63 , Pioneer Elite BDP-05 “Why did you get married if you wanted big speakers?”
  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 27,964
    Neodium magnets are stronger in a smaller package
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
  • treitz3
    treitz3 Posts: 18,230
    Simply put? No.

    Tom
    ~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~
  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 27,964
    Stop with your short but sweet answers

    - Not Tom
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
  • treitz3
    treitz3 Posts: 18,230
    Shut up Trey.

    LOL

    Tom
    ~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~
  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 27,964
    Make me

    - Not Tom
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
  • Unless you want to get into motor design, Thiel/Small parameters, and enclosure design, you won't know much about a speaker just by looking at the magnet. What matters is: how does it sound to you?

    Cheers, Jim
    A day without music is like a day without food.
  • Viking64
    Viking64 Posts: 6,646
    Cheers, Jim

    Cheers.

    -Jim

  • Viking64
    Viking64 Posts: 6,646
    Magnets. How do they work?
  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 32,922
    edited September 2018
    Does the amplifier with the most watts win? ;)

    The biggest and/or heaviest magnet doesn't necessarily mean the best driver.
    This is especially true with the growing popularity of extremly lightweight and powerful magnet made of (typically) neodymium. Neodymium magnets can be very strong while also being very small and lightweight, which is kind of disconcerting.

    https://www.parts-express.com/bc-18ds115-18-professional-neodymium-subwoofer-8-ohm--294-6026


    mnuepaqe4csy.png

    Now, this being said - depending upon the type of enclosure design desired, by and large a strong motor (typically, low Qts) is often desirable, and a strong motor generally means a strong magnet. The flux density and shape of the magnetic field are the kinds of paramaters that are important for the performance of a driver. The overarching goal is linear drive of the cone within its designed excursion limits.


    It's like, technology and engineering and materials science and stuff, man...

    :)

  • ZLTFUL
    ZLTFUL Posts: 5,640
    AlNiCo also comes to mind...smaller magnets but in most cases, superior.
    "Some people find it easier to be conceited rather than correct."

    "Unwad those panties and have a good time man. We're all here to help each other, no matter how it might appear." DSkip
  • laelle
    laelle Posts: 100
    edited September 2018
    Neodymium magnets indeed are very good not only do they pack a punch, they are very even frequency wise...

    They even make Q-Tuner pickups made of neodymium magnets for guitar and bass... really awesome
  • treitz3
    treitz3 Posts: 18,230
    Those who look at this and think about magnets?

    Seriously......look up direct servo. You can thank me later.

    Tom (the ACTUAL Tom)
    ~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~
  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 32,922
    ZLTFUL wrote: »
    AlNiCo also comes to mind...smaller magnets but in most cases, superior.

    Yes and no :) There are some pretty beefy AlNiCos out there, old and new (as you know) JBL, Altec and good ol' Lowther all kinda spring to mind :)

    cany2ypxwvo0.png

    any driver that has its own handle(s) is probably a worthy one. B)
  • Emlyn
    Emlyn Posts: 4,346
    laelle wrote: »
    Neodymium magnets indeed are very good not only do they pack a punch, they are very even frequency wise...

    They even make Q-Tuner pickups made of neodymium magnets for guitar and bass... really awesome

    Out of curiosoty, I bought a little sleeve of button sized neodymium magnets a couple years ago. The strength of those things is shocking for their size. Especially when two of the magnets jump together and catch some finger skin between them.

  • laelle
    laelle Posts: 100
    Emlyn wrote: »
    laelle wrote: »
    Neodymium magnets indeed are very good not only do they pack a punch, they are very even frequency wise...

    They even make Q-Tuner pickups made of neodymium magnets for guitar and bass... really awesome

    Out of curiosoty, I bought a little sleeve of button sized neodymium magnets a couple years ago. The strength of those things is shocking for their size. Especially when two of the magnets jump together and catch some finger skin between them.

    Hahahah absolutely... they are so strong some say they have spiritual properties, like orgone pyramids
  • mlistens03
    mlistens03 Posts: 2,767
    I like neodymium magnets more, just because they are lighter and about as strong, if not stronger.
    I will say that there are some speakers out there with very small ferrite magnets (my Infinities had pretty small ferrite magnets) and they were very nice. Solid, clear bass, defined mids and highs. If you placed them right, they had more bass than the LSi’s.
    Basically, great speakers, with fairly small magnets. Once again, doesn’t matter too much.
    Not Tom, or Jim, or Trey, just Micah
  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 27,964
    edited September 2018
    You guys....

    Not Tom, or Jim, or Micah, or Ken
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
  • Tony M
    Tony M Posts: 11,009
    Betsy huh? I dated a Betsy for a while. :|
    Most people just listen to music and watch movies. I EXPERIENCE them.
  • warren
    warren Posts: 756
    I blow thru here
    The music goes 'round and around
    Whoa-ho-ho-ho-ho-ho
    And it comes out here

    I push the first valve down
    The music goes down and around
    Whoa-ho-ho-ho-ho-ho
    And it comes out here

    I push the middle valve down
    The music goes down around below
    Below, below, deedle-dee-ho-ho-ho
    Listen to the jazz come out

    I push the other valve down
    The music goes 'round and around
    Whoa-ho-ho-ho-ho-ho
    And it comes out here...
    Some final words,
    "If you keep banging your head against the wall,
    you're going to have headaches."
    Warren
  • SCompRacer
    SCompRacer Posts: 8,350
    edited September 2018
    It's a matter of Gauss.
    Salk SoundScape 8's * Audio Research Reference 3 * Bottlehead Eros Phono * Park's Audio Budgie SUT * Krell KSA-250 * Harmonic Technology Pro 9+ * Signature Series Sonore Music Server w/Deux PS * Roon * Gustard R26 DAC / Singxer SU-6 DDC * Heavy Plinth Lenco L75 Idler Drive * AA MG-1 Linear Air Bearing Arm * AT33PTG/II & Denon 103R * Richard Gray 600S * NHT B-12d subs * GIK Acoustic Treatments * Sennheiser HD650 *
  • All I know is when I got my OHM model L- after pulling the drivers I found what I thought to be the heaviest/largest magnets in a book ender. I didn't weight the things but I was surprised and sorry they left town because they were that good. Maybe I'll e-mail Evan today to ask what they weigh and why.
    2chl- Adcom GFA- 555-Onkyo P-3150v pre/amp- JVC-QL-A200 tt- Denon 1940 ci cdp- Adcom GFS-6 -Modded '87 SDA 2Bs - Dynamat Ext.- BH-5- X-Overs VR-3, RDO-194 tweeters, Larry's Rings, Speakon/Neutrik I/C- Cherry stain tops Advent Maestros,Ohm model E

    H/T- Toshiba au40" flat- Yamaha RX- V665 avr- YSD-11 Dock- I-Pod- Klipsch #400HD Speaker set-

    Bdrm- Nikko 6065 receiver- JBL -G-200s--Pioneer 305 headphones--Sony CE375-5 disc
  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 32,922
    edited September 2018
    The classic Altec Duplexes employ large and heavy (i.e, powerful) AlNiCo magnets for both the woofer & treble drivers. The high magnetic field and high flux density of these drivers is used to afford high sensitivity as well as high linearity. Sensitivity has rather fallen out of favor as a design criterion for loudspeakers, since watts are dirt cheap any more. :(

    The Altec woofers (like their contemporary drivers from JBL) were low-excursion drivers with huge (3 to 4 inch) but shallow voice coils -- very different than the current fashion in woofer design.

    2efqzn6smrlm.png

    eh511se0qo7q.png

    The treble (compression) drivers likewise used large diameter VCs and truly massive AlNiCo magnets. The JBL 2441 treble drivers I am currently using weigh about 25 lbs
    each. Not all of that's magnet, of course, but the magnets in 'em are pretty beefy.

    hed3gjyk5fuc.png


    39958549212_fab98689d5_h.jpgDSC_0457 (3) by Mark Hardy, on Flickr
    JBL 275 on the left; 2441 on the right, 2A3 direct-heated power triode :) for scale.

    Nerdy aside: "Gauss" as a unit of magnetic flux density has been superceded in the SI system with units of "Tesla" (T). One Gauss equals 1×10−4 Tesla (100 μT), so 1 Tesla = 10,000 Gauss.

    z3v6s61hszwm.png


  • I did mail Ohm and they came back very quick w/ a response..

    Ohm Acoustics ohmspeakers@aol.comHide
    To lewdworet lewdworet@aim.com
    Hi Lewis,

    The Ohm L magnet weighted 32 oz. and the iron parts were extra thick to reduce 'magnetic resistance'.

    IMHO, Neo is the best for tweeter (for small size); Neo or big ceramic are best for mids (when size is not critical) and woofers and big ceramics are best for subwoofers where heat sinking is most important).

    Good Listening!

    John
    Ohm Acoustics Corp.
    76 Degraw Street
    Brooklyn NY 11231
    800-783-1553
    https://ohmspeaker.com/speakers/
    2chl- Adcom GFA- 555-Onkyo P-3150v pre/amp- JVC-QL-A200 tt- Denon 1940 ci cdp- Adcom GFS-6 -Modded '87 SDA 2Bs - Dynamat Ext.- BH-5- X-Overs VR-3, RDO-194 tweeters, Larry's Rings, Speakon/Neutrik I/C- Cherry stain tops Advent Maestros,Ohm model E

    H/T- Toshiba au40" flat- Yamaha RX- V665 avr- YSD-11 Dock- I-Pod- Klipsch #400HD Speaker set-

    Bdrm- Nikko 6065 receiver- JBL -G-200s--Pioneer 305 headphones--Sony CE375-5 disc