Do bigger magnets automatically mean better?

DabutcherDabutcher Posts: 1,790
edited September 9 in Speakers
voyh58o8t4w1.jpeg
Auto forum seems dead? I am sound deadening four door panels. Stock JBL’s are eleven years old. So I bought Polk MM1 ‘s to replace them. Thinking it’s an upgrade. But magnets on Polks are almost nonexistent compared to JBL’s. Have not tried them out yet. Thanks. D
MIT Magnum MH-750, Monster HTS 5100MKII, Mitsubishi rear projection 73, PS4, PSW505 , Sunfire Signature Grand 425 x 4,Parasound hca 120, RTi12, FXiA6, CSiA6, SDA SRS 1.2, Pioneer Elite SC63 , Pioneer Elite BDP-05



“Why did you get married if you wanted big speakers?”
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Comments

  • VR3VR3 Posts: 22,385
    Looks like Polk is using neo versus jbl is ferrite
    - Not Tom

    Vr3Mods.com ///// Version3Audio.com

    "No, that's silly talk. Dude, you can't possibly be this audio dumb so quit the act." - Doro
  • DabutcherDabutcher Posts: 1,790
    Is that good or bad? Thanks. D
    MIT Magnum MH-750, Monster HTS 5100MKII, Mitsubishi rear projection 73, PS4, PSW505 , Sunfire Signature Grand 425 x 4,Parasound hca 120, RTi12, FXiA6, CSiA6, SDA SRS 1.2, Pioneer Elite SC63 , Pioneer Elite BDP-05



    “Why did you get married if you wanted big speakers?”
  • VR3VR3 Posts: 22,385
    Neodium magnets are stronger in a smaller package
    - Not Tom

    Vr3Mods.com ///// Version3Audio.com

    "No, that's silly talk. Dude, you can't possibly be this audio dumb so quit the act." - Doro
  • treitz3treitz3 Posts: 12,531
    Simply put? No.

    Tom
    In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence.

    The best way to enjoy digital music reproduction is to never listen to good analogue reproduction.
  • VR3VR3 Posts: 22,385
    Stop with your short but sweet answers

    - Not Tom
    - Not Tom

    Vr3Mods.com ///// Version3Audio.com

    "No, that's silly talk. Dude, you can't possibly be this audio dumb so quit the act." - Doro
  • pitdogg2pitdogg2 Posts: 11,467
    Not Tom LMAO
  • treitz3treitz3 Posts: 12,531
    Shut up Trey.

    LOL

    Tom
    In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence.

    The best way to enjoy digital music reproduction is to never listen to good analogue reproduction.
  • VR3VR3 Posts: 22,385
    Make me

    - Not Tom
    - Not Tom

    Vr3Mods.com ///// Version3Audio.com

    "No, that's silly talk. Dude, you can't possibly be this audio dumb so quit the act." - Doro
  • Unless you want to get into motor design, Thiel/Small parameters, and enclosure design, you won't know much about a speaker just by looking at the magnet. What matters is: how does it sound to you?

    Cheers, Jim
    A day without music is like a day without food.
  • Viking64Viking64 Posts: 3,605
    Cheers, Jim

    Cheers.

    -Jim

  • Viking64Viking64 Posts: 3,605
    Magnets. How do they work?
  • mhardy6647mhardy6647 Posts: 19,576
    edited September 9
    Does the amplifier with the most watts win? ;)

    The biggest and/or heaviest magnet doesn't necessarily mean the best driver.
    This is especially true with the growing popularity of extremly lightweight and powerful magnet made of (typically) neodymium. Neodymium magnets can be very strong while also being very small and lightweight, which is kind of disconcerting.

    https://www.parts-express.com/bc-18ds115-18-professional-neodymium-subwoofer-8-ohm--294-6026


    mnuepaqe4csy.png

    Now, this being said - depending upon the type of enclosure design desired, by and large a strong motor (typically, low Qts) is often desirable, and a strong motor generally means a strong magnet. The flux density and shape of the magnetic field are the kinds of paramaters that are important for the performance of a driver. The overarching goal is linear drive of the cone within its designed excursion limits.


    It's like, technology and engineering and materials science and stuff, man...

    :)

  • ZLTFULZLTFUL Posts: 4,668
    AlNiCo also comes to mind...smaller magnets but in most cases, superior.
    "Some people find it easier to be conceited rather than correct."

    "Unwad those panties and have a good time man. We're all here to help each other, no matter how it might appear." DSkip
  • laellelaelle Posts: 100
    edited September 9
    Neodymium magnets indeed are very good not only do they pack a punch, they are very even frequency wise...

    They even make Q-Tuner pickups made of neodymium magnets for guitar and bass... really awesome
  • treitz3treitz3 Posts: 12,531
    Those who look at this and think about magnets?

    Seriously......look up direct servo. You can thank me later.

    Tom (the ACTUAL Tom)
    In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence.

    The best way to enjoy digital music reproduction is to never listen to good analogue reproduction.
  • mhardy6647mhardy6647 Posts: 19,576
    ZLTFUL wrote: »
    AlNiCo also comes to mind...smaller magnets but in most cases, superior.

    Yes and no :) There are some pretty beefy AlNiCos out there, old and new (as you know) JBL, Altec and good ol' Lowther all kinda spring to mind :)

    cany2ypxwvo0.png

    any driver that has its own handle(s) is probably a worthy one. B)
  • EmlynEmlyn Posts: 2,164
    laelle wrote: »
    Neodymium magnets indeed are very good not only do they pack a punch, they are very even frequency wise...

    They even make Q-Tuner pickups made of neodymium magnets for guitar and bass... really awesome

    Out of curiosoty, I bought a little sleeve of button sized neodymium magnets a couple years ago. The strength of those things is shocking for their size. Especially when two of the magnets jump together and catch some finger skin between them.

    1. Polk LSiM707, 704C, 703; Dual SVS SB2000 subwoofers; Marantz SR7011 receiver; Parasound A23 amp; Oppo 205; Toshiba HD-DVD Player; Sony 65" 4K TV; FIOS; PS Audio Power Plant Premier; MIT S2 cables
    2. JM Labs Electra 920.1; Parasound JC2 Preamp; Sonic Frontiers Power 2 amp; Sony HAP-Z1ES; Oppo 105D; Music Hall MMF7 and Acoustech phono pre; PS Audio P1000; MIT S1 Cables
    3. Polk LSiM703; Pioneer Elite SC97 receiver; Oppo 203; Squeezebox Touch; MIT S3 cables
  • laellelaelle Posts: 100
    Emlyn wrote: »
    laelle wrote: »
    Neodymium magnets indeed are very good not only do they pack a punch, they are very even frequency wise...

    They even make Q-Tuner pickups made of neodymium magnets for guitar and bass... really awesome

    Out of curiosoty, I bought a little sleeve of button sized neodymium magnets a couple years ago. The strength of those things is shocking for their size. Especially when two of the magnets jump together and catch some finger skin between them.

    Hahahah absolutely... they are so strong some say they have spiritual properties, like orgone pyramids
  • mlistens03mlistens03 Posts: 2,330
    I like neodymium magnets more, just because they are lighter and about as strong, if not stronger.
    I will say that there are some speakers out there with very small ferrite magnets (my Infinities had pretty small ferrite magnets) and they were very nice. Solid, clear bass, defined mids and highs. If you placed them right, they had more bass than the LSi’s.
    Basically, great speakers, with fairly small magnets. Once again, doesn’t matter too much.
    Not Tom, or Jim, or Trey, just Micah
    Micah

    Main system: Technics SL3200, Shure M97xE, Lafayette LR1100 for tuner, Hagerman Audio Labs Bugle 2 phono stage, NAD C352 integrated, Boston Acoustics VR 2, Boston PV500, generic ICs, and BJC Belden speaker cables.

    Desktop: Dell Precision 690 running iTunes, Yamaha RX-v665, Monitor Audio R90s, Velodyne VA-907, generic ICs and speaker cables.
    I've always thought the goal of high-end audio was not to have your neighbors bang on the wall and say, 'Turn that darn music down' but to have your neighbors bang on the wall and say, 'Tell your friends to go home and you can practice later this week'.
  • VR3VR3 Posts: 22,385
    edited September 9
    You guys....

    Not Tom, or Jim, or Micah, or Ken
    - Not Tom

    Vr3Mods.com ///// Version3Audio.com

    "No, that's silly talk. Dude, you can't possibly be this audio dumb so quit the act." - Doro
  • Viking64Viking64 Posts: 3,605
  • Tony MTony M Posts: 6,506
    Betsy huh? I dated a Betsy for a while. :|
    Most people just listen to music and watch movies. I EXPERIENCE them.
  • mhardy6647mhardy6647 Posts: 19,576
    speaking of magnets and Betsys...

    http://www.wildburroaudio.com/speakers.php

    qnbf0bb4oxl8.png
  • warrenwarren Posts: 632
    I blow thru here
    The music goes 'round and around
    Whoa-ho-ho-ho-ho-ho
    And it comes out here

    I push the first valve down
    The music goes down and around
    Whoa-ho-ho-ho-ho-ho
    And it comes out here

    I push the middle valve down
    The music goes down around below
    Below, below, deedle-dee-ho-ho-ho
    Listen to the jazz come out

    I push the other valve down
    The music goes 'round and around
    Whoa-ho-ho-ho-ho-ho
    And it comes out here...
    Some final words,
    "If you keep banging your head against the wall,
    you're going to have headaches."
    Warren
  • SCompRacerSCompRacer Posts: 6,949
    edited September 10
    It's a matter of Gauss.
    Make yourself necessary to someone. Ralph Waldo Emerson

    Salk SoundScape 8's * Audio Research Reference 3 * Bottlehead Eros Phono * Park's Audio Budgie SUT * Krell KSA-250 * Harmonic Technology Pro 9+ & Pro 11+ * Signature Series Sonore Music Server w/Deux PS* Twisted Pear Buffalo III Dual Mono ESS Sabre32 DAC * Heavy Plinth Lenco L75 Idler Drive * AA MG-1 Linear Air Bearing Arm * AT33PTG/II & Denon 103R * Richard Gray 600S * NHT B-12d subs * GIK Acoustic Treatments * Sennheiser HD650 *

  • leftwinger57leftwinger57 Posts: 2,912
    All I know is when I got my OHM model L- after pulling the drivers I found what I thought to be the heaviest/largest magnets in a book ender. I didn't weight the things but I was surprised and sorry they left town because they were that good. Maybe I'll e-mail Evan today to ask what they weigh and why.
    2chl- Adcom GFA- 555-Onkyo P-3150v pre/amp- JVC-QL-A200 tt- Denon 1940 ci cdp- Adcom GFS-6 -Modded '87 SDA 2Bs - Dynamat Ext.- BH-5- X-Overs VR-3, RDO-194 tweeters, Larry's Rings, Speakon/Neutrik I/C- Cherry stain tops Advent Maestros,Ohm model E

    H/T- Toshiba au40" flat- Yamaha RX- V665 avr- YSD-11 Dock- I-Pod- Klipsch #400HD Speaker set-

    Bdrm- Nikko 6065 receiver- JBL -G-200s--Pioneer 305 headphones--Sony CE375-5 disc
  • mhardy6647mhardy6647 Posts: 19,576
    edited September 10
    The classic Altec Duplexes employ large and heavy (i.e, powerful) AlNiCo magnets for both the woofer & treble drivers. The high magnetic field and high flux density of these drivers is used to afford high sensitivity as well as high linearity. Sensitivity has rather fallen out of favor as a design criterion for loudspeakers, since watts are dirt cheap any more. :(

    The Altec woofers (like their contemporary drivers from JBL) were low-excursion drivers with huge (3 to 4 inch) but shallow voice coils -- very different than the current fashion in woofer design.

    2efqzn6smrlm.png

    eh511se0qo7q.png

    The treble (compression) drivers likewise used large diameter VCs and truly massive AlNiCo magnets. The JBL 2441 treble drivers I am currently using weigh about 25 lbs
    each. Not all of that's magnet, of course, but the magnets in 'em are pretty beefy.

    hed3gjyk5fuc.png


    39958549212_fab98689d5_h.jpgDSC_0457 (3) by Mark Hardy, on Flickr
    JBL 275 on the left; 2441 on the right, 2A3 direct-heated power triode :) for scale.

    Nerdy aside: "Gauss" as a unit of magnetic flux density has been superceded in the SI system with units of "Tesla" (T). One Gauss equals 1×10−4 Tesla (100 μT), so 1 Tesla = 10,000 Gauss.

    z3v6s61hszwm.png


  • leftwinger57leftwinger57 Posts: 2,912
    I did mail Ohm and they came back very quick w/ a response..

    Ohm Acoustics [email protected]
    To lewdworet [email protected]
    Hi Lewis,

    The Ohm L magnet weighted 32 oz. and the iron parts were extra thick to reduce 'magnetic resistance'.

    IMHO, Neo is the best for tweeter (for small size); Neo or big ceramic are best for mids (when size is not critical) and woofers and big ceramics are best for subwoofers where heat sinking is most important).

    Good Listening!

    John
    Ohm Acoustics Corp.
    76 Degraw Street
    Brooklyn NY 11231
    800-783-1553
    https://ohmspeaker.com/speakers/
    2chl- Adcom GFA- 555-Onkyo P-3150v pre/amp- JVC-QL-A200 tt- Denon 1940 ci cdp- Adcom GFS-6 -Modded '87 SDA 2Bs - Dynamat Ext.- BH-5- X-Overs VR-3, RDO-194 tweeters, Larry's Rings, Speakon/Neutrik I/C- Cherry stain tops Advent Maestros,Ohm model E

    H/T- Toshiba au40" flat- Yamaha RX- V665 avr- YSD-11 Dock- I-Pod- Klipsch #400HD Speaker set-

    Bdrm- Nikko 6065 receiver- JBL -G-200s--Pioneer 305 headphones--Sony CE375-5 disc
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