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Difference Between BFA and Banana?

msgmsg Posts: 4,883
in Basic Hookup/Wiring Questions
So I keep seeing this "BFA Style" connector.

What the heck does BFA stand for? and how is it different from a Banana connector?

It seems like the BFA Style is this banana connector with the squiggly/cutout in it, and a regular banana connector has the spring mechanism all around, or in the 4 quadrants?
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Comments

  • txcoastal1txcoastal1 Posts: 10,295
    edited December 2017
    British Federation of Audio...created by the Eurocrats due to safety concerns

    So that you don't do sumtin'stupid like plug your audio connector into the euro electrical socket

    Banana plugs are actually illegal in Europe, hence the reason that when you receive amps, they may have those red plug caps stuffed in the the amp terminals
    2-channel: Modwright KWI-200 Integrated, Dynaudio C1-II Signatures
    Desktop rig: LSi7, Polk 110sub, Dayens Ampino amp, W4S DAC/pre, Sonos, JRiver
    Gear on standby: Melody 101 tube pre, Unison Research Simply Italy Integrated
    Gone to new homes: (Matt Polk's)Threshold Stasis SA12e monoblocks, Pass XA30.5 amp, Usher MD2 speakers, Dynaudio C4 platinum speakers, Modwright LS100 (voltz), Simaudio 780D DAC
  • msgmsg Posts: 4,883
    edited December 2017
    Ahhhhh, gotcha.
    Hehe, yeah, I read something about that.

    How does this prevent someone from sticking it in one of those sockets?
    I disabled signatures.
  • pitdogg2pitdogg2 Posts: 13,169
    edited December 2017
    Right Scott I'd like to know that as well.
    The marketing has always sold them as more contact surface.
  • txcoastal1txcoastal1 Posts: 10,295
    I guess because of the resemblance of the nanner euro plug :/

    pe4gj18h3utq.jpg

    cuahy7p2p4pq.jpg

    2-channel: Modwright KWI-200 Integrated, Dynaudio C1-II Signatures
    Desktop rig: LSi7, Polk 110sub, Dayens Ampino amp, W4S DAC/pre, Sonos, JRiver
    Gear on standby: Melody 101 tube pre, Unison Research Simply Italy Integrated
    Gone to new homes: (Matt Polk's)Threshold Stasis SA12e monoblocks, Pass XA30.5 amp, Usher MD2 speakers, Dynaudio C4 platinum speakers, Modwright LS100 (voltz), Simaudio 780D DAC
  • dannylightningdannylightning Posts: 233
    edited December 2017
    from what i have seen the banannas listed as BFA do not have the little springy things like regular banana plugs do

    here is a BFA vs regular banana, pretty sure that is the difference between the two so i would say you are probably correct just adding the photo so anyone who reads it sees what we are talking about

    frndw82vwqcr.jpg
    xpvsbsmtv3ba.jpg
    Cambridge Azur 651A
    Polk LSi M703
    Sonos Connect




  • KingratKingrat Posts: 74
    All I want are some banana plugs like I used to be able to get where you can use huge wire size, and crimp them and solder them easily, and don't cost a ridiculous amount of money. Last solder ones I got barely have any solder cup in them and a 14 gauge wire is about as big as it wants to take, so I've been using the Monoprice screw clamp ones and after tightening them up, using my big old foot long soldering iron to solder them. I have some old ones someplace, can't find them after I moved that took 8 gauge cables without problems, and a 60 watt iron was fine.
    Cable atheist: They're just trying to get your money like a TV preacher!
    Vinyl system: I'm long done with the snap, crackle, and pop.
  • afterburntafterburnt Posts: 5,423
    @Kingrat does work?

    https://www.musicdirect.com/connector-upgrades/audioquest-crimp-bfa-bananas-set-of-4
  • KingratKingrat Posts: 74
    Well, um, I guess I should have added "That don't cost an insane amount of money each" Almost $18 for four?? I don't think so, but thanks. When I can buy other ones that are usable, that are much nicer looking and appear to be a lot more solid, for much less, I'll pass. The description of them on the AQ page is pretty funny though, unless you believe in cable and connector magic.
    Cable atheist: They're just trying to get your money like a TV preacher!
    Vinyl system: I'm long done with the snap, crackle, and pop.
  • F1nutF1nut Posts: 41,569
    What I believe in is putting worthless posters where they belong....poof
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

  • KingratKingrat Posts: 74
    Oh my, I blasphemed..So sorry.
    Cable atheist: They're just trying to get your money like a TV preacher!
    Vinyl system: I'm long done with the snap, crackle, and pop.
  • gp4jesusgp4jesus Posts: 1,209
    Kingrat wrote: »
    All I want are some banana plugs like I used to be able to get where you can use huge wire size, and crimp them and solder them easily, and don't cost a ridiculous amount of money. Last solder ones I got barely have any solder cup in them and a 14 gauge wire is about as big as it wants to take...
    I use the plugs in the upper part of DL’s post all throughout my system. W/a little patience, 8 gauge will fit.

    You can find a 12 pack, look-a-like, gold plated brass on eBay, under $13 shipped. Copy and paste...

    VOSO-24K-Gold-Plated-Speaker-Cable-Wire-Connector-4mm-Banana-Plug

    ...should get you there

    Tony

    Samsung 60" UN60ES6100 LED
    Outlaw Audio 976 Pre/Pro
    Samsung BDP, DirecTV Rcvr, Xbox 360, Dennon LDP, Phillips CD chgr

    Canare 14 ga - LCR tweeters inside; CC outside
    BJC 10 ga - LCR mids, inside & out
    8 ga Powerline - LR woofers, inside & out

    LR: tri-amped RTi A7. Woofers, Rotel 98X amp; M & T, P'sound HCA-1000
    CC: Rotel RB985 -> tri-amped CSi A6
    5 Audio Pro Subs: 1 B1.39: 1 Evidence at each corner
    Surrounds: Hafler XL280 -> AR 12 ga -> RTi A3*
    Power Conditioning & Distribution:
    3 dedicated 20A feeds; APC H15; 4 Furman Miniport 20s
    *Bi-amped by years end
  • KingratKingrat Posts: 74
    Thanks, I actually found some that were like what I've had in the past:
    https://www.parts-express.com/gold-plated-crimp-on-banana-plug-16-pcs--091-350
    They don't take as large a wire as the ones I have in a box someplace, but they will take 12 gauge and that's big enough and they look deep enough to crimp without much chance of ruining them. The problem with the two piece screw ones is that if you crimp them, the screw on part won't fit, and if you don't, you need to use the giant soldering iron that is a pain to use, due to it taking forever to heat up, and it weighs a ton and keeps trying to slide out of my holder due to the stiff cord. I only normally use it for PL-259 radio antenna plugs. It works great for them. The new banana plugs will solder up fine with my much nicer to use 60W iron.
    Cable atheist: They're just trying to get your money like a TV preacher!
    Vinyl system: I'm long done with the snap, crackle, and pop.
  • gp4jesusgp4jesus Posts: 1,209
    edited April 2018
    Kingrat: I can’t argue w/your sentiment. The AQ & VOSO plugs - same material, same contact principle, but $4.50 versus $1.08 a piece. C’mo-o-on!

    I read the AQ product description. I don’t get your point.
    Kingrat wrote: »
    ...unless you believe in cable and connector magic.
    Tony

    Samsung 60" UN60ES6100 LED
    Outlaw Audio 976 Pre/Pro
    Samsung BDP, DirecTV Rcvr, Xbox 360, Dennon LDP, Phillips CD chgr

    Canare 14 ga - LCR tweeters inside; CC outside
    BJC 10 ga - LCR mids, inside & out
    8 ga Powerline - LR woofers, inside & out

    LR: tri-amped RTi A7. Woofers, Rotel 98X amp; M & T, P'sound HCA-1000
    CC: Rotel RB985 -> tri-amped CSi A6
    5 Audio Pro Subs: 1 B1.39: 1 Evidence at each corner
    Surrounds: Hafler XL280 -> AR 12 ga -> RTi A3*
    Power Conditioning & Distribution:
    3 dedicated 20A feeds; APC H15; 4 Furman Miniport 20s
    *Bi-amped by years end
  • KingratKingrat Posts: 74
    gp4jesus wrote: »
    Kingrat: I can’t argue w/your sentiment. The AQ & VOSO plugs - same material, same contact principle, but $4.50 versus $1.08 a piece. C’mo-o-on!




    I read the AQ product description. I don’t get your point.
    Kingrat wrote: »
    ...unless you believe in cable and connector magic.
    Tony

    The new ones worked great, I made up 2 sets of cables last night one pair about 7 feet long each, and another pair about 20 feet long. The sleeve is more than long enough and it crimped easily and soldered fine with my 60 watt iron. I'm buying some more of them, and putting them into my recently purchased plug/components holders so they wont go missing again.

    You don't get my point about the AQ (and other cables)? Did you read my sig?
    Cable atheist: They're just trying to get your money like a TV preacher!
    Vinyl system: I'm long done with the snap, crackle, and pop.
  • gp4jesusgp4jesus Posts: 1,209
    Kingrat wrote: »
    you don't get my point about the AQ (and other cables)? Did you read my sig?
    The mobile app doesn’t allow signatures through. I switched to full site - I get it.
    Samsung 60" UN60ES6100 LED
    Outlaw Audio 976 Pre/Pro
    Samsung BDP, DirecTV Rcvr, Xbox 360, Dennon LDP, Phillips CD chgr

    Canare 14 ga - LCR tweeters inside; CC outside
    BJC 10 ga - LCR mids, inside & out
    8 ga Powerline - LR woofers, inside & out

    LR: tri-amped RTi A7. Woofers, Rotel 98X amp; M & T, P'sound HCA-1000
    CC: Rotel RB985 -> tri-amped CSi A6
    5 Audio Pro Subs: 1 B1.39: 1 Evidence at each corner
    Surrounds: Hafler XL280 -> AR 12 ga -> RTi A3*
    Power Conditioning & Distribution:
    3 dedicated 20A feeds; APC H15; 4 Furman Miniport 20s
    *Bi-amped by years end
  • KingratKingrat Posts: 74
    You find my lack of faith disturbing?

    Cable atheist: They're just trying to get your money like a TV preacher!
    Vinyl system: I'm long done with the snap, crackle, and pop.
  • steveinazsteveinaz Posts: 18,929
    edited May 2018
    You'll get more surface area contact with a BFA, has the whole barrel makes contact, not just the raised portion of a standard banana. Will it make any difference? I doubt it.
    Source: Bluesound Node 2i | Preamp/DAC: PS Audio Stellar Gain Cell | Power Amp: Parasound Halo A21 | Speakers: PSB Imagine T2 | Cables: Signal Cable Analog 2 XLR; Kimber 8VS Bi-Wire; DH Labs D-75 Dig Coax | AC Power: Panamax M5300-PM
  • LegenderLegender Posts: 478
    non-believers....everything makes a difference.
    Music: Oppo103 - Parasound JC2 - Parasound A21- SDA 3.1
    Theater: Denon 3808 - B&K 7500/Emotiva XPA-3- RTi12, CSi5, RTiA7x4, PSW505
    Sleeping: Marantz 70005 - Harman Kardon 2400 - SDA 2
    2 Channel: Cary 306 SACD - Canary Audio 906 - Pass Labs x250 - PS Audio Perfectwave DAC, Polk LSiM705, SVS SB13 Ultra
    Office: Dell Optiplex, Emotiva XDA-2, Adcom 5500, LSiM 703
    Spares: Yamaha CA-810; LSi 15; Kenwood Basic M2a, Yamaha M60/M80, Polk Monitor 7, SVS SB13 Ultra
  • mlistens03mlistens03 Posts: 2,517
    I personally believe that cables do make a difference, and banana plugs probably do too, but I’m not gonna spend money on banana plugs because it is literally like a 2 centimeter connection point. It can make a difference, but I can’t imagine the money would be worth that little of one.
    Micah
    If you're reading this, I've put up devices for a week; maybe more. I'll talk you guys later!
    I've always thought the goal of high-end audio was not to have your neighbors bang on the wall and say, 'Turn that darn music down' but to have your neighbors bang on the wall and say, 'Tell your friends to go home and you can practice later this week'.
  • verbverb Posts: 6,096
    mlistens03 wrote: »
    I personally believe that cables do make a difference, and banana plugs probably do too, but I’m not gonna spend money on banana plugs because it is literally like a 2 centimeter connection point. It can make a difference, but I can’t imagine the money would be worth that little of one.

    Connectors are all about a good connection. And maintaining that connection under all circumstances. Like a chain, only as strong as the weakest link. Lots of info out there. Yeah there is a point of diminishing returns, IMO, but take a look. There's a price point for everybody! Another journey! FWIW. :smile:
    Basement: Polk SDA SRS, Cary SLP-05 Pre, Enlightened Audio Designs CD Transport, Northstar Designs Excelsio DAC, Silnote Morpheus Ref2 Digital Cable, Marantz SA-14 SACD, McIntosh MC300 Amp, Furman 15PFi Power Conditioner, Pangea Power Cables, Wireworld Oasis 8 RCA IC's, MIT Shotgun S3 IC's, MIT Shotgun S1 Bi-Wire speaker cables
    Office: PC, Marantz CD-1, Marantz AMP-1, Denon UDR-F10 Cassette, Acoustic Technologies Classic Speakers, SVS SB12 Plus Subwoofer, MIT AVt2 speaker cables, IFI Purifier2, AQ Cinnamon USB cable, Groneberg Quatro Reference IC's
    Spare Room: , Antique Sound Labs Wave AV-8 Monoblocks, Tisbury Mini Passive Pre, Tjoeb 99 tube CD player (modified Marantz CD-38), Analysis Plus Oval 9's, Zu Jumpers, AudioEngine B1 Streamer, Klipsch RB-61 v2, SVS PB1000 su, Blue Jeans RCA IC's
    Living Room: Pioneer SX-N30 Network Receiver, Pioneer PD10AE CD Player, Furman M8-LX Power Conditioner, Polk RT265 In Wall Speakers, Polk DSW Pro 660wi Subwoofer
  • mlistens03mlistens03 Posts: 2,517
    verb wrote: »
    mlistens03 wrote: »
    I personally believe that cables do make a difference, and banana plugs probably do too, but I’m not gonna spend money on banana plugs because it is literally like a 2 centimeter connection point. It can make a difference, but I can’t imagine the money would be worth that little of one.

    Connectors are all about a good connection. And maintaining that connection under all circumstances. Like a chain, only as strong as the weakest link. Lots of info out there. Yeah there is a point of diminishing returns, IMO, but take a look. There's a price point for everybody! Another journey! FWIW. :smile:

    sorry, I forgot to add IMO in there.
    but yes, I do know what you mean. but I meant for my INCREDIBLY low price point, its not a viable upgrade.
    Micah
    If you're reading this, I've put up devices for a week; maybe more. I'll talk you guys later!
    I've always thought the goal of high-end audio was not to have your neighbors bang on the wall and say, 'Turn that darn music down' but to have your neighbors bang on the wall and say, 'Tell your friends to go home and you can practice later this week'.
  • Viking64Viking64 Posts: 3,804
    edited May 2018
    Legender wrote: »
    non-believers....everything makes a difference.

  • steveinazsteveinaz Posts: 18,929
    Don't misunderstand my comment. I am a believer in cable differences, but I don't see how the little bit of difference in contact area would affect the tonal characteristics of a cable. Now, If I were designing a cable form the ground up, I'd go with BFA's simply because more surface area contact certainly doesn't hurt anything--but I wouldn't stress about it on a cable that only came with standard bananas.
    Source: Bluesound Node 2i | Preamp/DAC: PS Audio Stellar Gain Cell | Power Amp: Parasound Halo A21 | Speakers: PSB Imagine T2 | Cables: Signal Cable Analog 2 XLR; Kimber 8VS Bi-Wire; DH Labs D-75 Dig Coax | AC Power: Panamax M5300-PM
  • gp4jesusgp4jesus Posts: 1,209
    steveinaz wrote: »
    You'll get more surface area contact with a BFA, has the whole barrel makes contact, not just the raised portion of a standard banana. Will it make any difference? I doubt it.
    you just made the case for..,
    steveinaz wrote: »
    I don't see how the little bit of difference in contact area would affect the tonal characteristics of a cable.
    I do, especially connecting 4 ohm speaker due to the BFA’s lower resistance compared to the bananas
    steveinaz wrote: »
    I'd go with BFA's simply because more surface area contact certainly doesn't hurt anything--but I wouldn't stress about it...
    Every little bit counts more than you think. On a power cord thread one reply read (paraphrased) “better bass due to .47 lower voltage drop.” Makes sense to me! Hence why I have 8 gauge wire soldered all the way to my woofer’s driver tabs. Same for 10 gauge to my LCR mids; surrounds to follow.
    Samsung 60" UN60ES6100 LED
    Outlaw Audio 976 Pre/Pro
    Samsung BDP, DirecTV Rcvr, Xbox 360, Dennon LDP, Phillips CD chgr

    Canare 14 ga - LCR tweeters inside; CC outside
    BJC 10 ga - LCR mids, inside & out
    8 ga Powerline - LR woofers, inside & out

    LR: tri-amped RTi A7. Woofers, Rotel 98X amp; M & T, P'sound HCA-1000
    CC: Rotel RB985 -> tri-amped CSi A6
    5 Audio Pro Subs: 1 B1.39: 1 Evidence at each corner
    Surrounds: Hafler XL280 -> AR 12 ga -> RTi A3*
    Power Conditioning & Distribution:
    3 dedicated 20A feeds; APC H15; 4 Furman Miniport 20s
    *Bi-amped by years end
  • F1nutF1nut Posts: 41,569
    Not all banana plugs are created equal. The ones dannylighting posted are poorly designed and constructed with minimal contact area. Compare them to high quality banana plugs such as the ones from MIT and the differences become obvious. The MIT's have 6 springs with a solid center post connected to a solid dome tip. The outer surface is in contact with the center post and when the springs are compressed they are too. Therefore, the MIT banana has considerably more mass, which means better conductivity.

    In addition, I measured the inside diameter of a Cardas binding post at .160 and the outside diameter of the MIT banana at .160 before and after the springs. With the springs compressed they also measure .160. Obviously, the banana is ever so slightly smaller than the post hole, but that's as accurate as I was able to measure. The difference is extremely small as evidenced by the super tight fit of the MIT banana plugs.

    Furthermore, the solid dome tip bottoms out in the binding post meaning it is in full contact. Compared to the BFA type plugs there is no doubt that a high quality banana not only has greater mass, it also has greater contact area.

    Note: for some damn reason (vanilla) all of a sudden today I am not able to post photos from my device on this site. I can everywhere else, so I know it's vanilla related. Maybe one of you guys can post a pic of the MIT banana plugs for me.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

  • Viking64Viking64 Posts: 3,804
    saknfkcczjbs.jpg
  • gp4jesusgp4jesus Posts: 1,209
    Here’s Jesse’s banana pic:

    https://us.v-cdn.net/5021930/uploads/editor/8p/fmaeca98an2f.jpgu6c9i3zti6xp.jpeg
    Samsung 60" UN60ES6100 LED
    Outlaw Audio 976 Pre/Pro
    Samsung BDP, DirecTV Rcvr, Xbox 360, Dennon LDP, Phillips CD chgr

    Canare 14 ga - LCR tweeters inside; CC outside
    BJC 10 ga - LCR mids, inside & out
    8 ga Powerline - LR woofers, inside & out

    LR: tri-amped RTi A7. Woofers, Rotel 98X amp; M & T, P'sound HCA-1000
    CC: Rotel RB985 -> tri-amped CSi A6
    5 Audio Pro Subs: 1 B1.39: 1 Evidence at each corner
    Surrounds: Hafler XL280 -> AR 12 ga -> RTi A3*
    Power Conditioning & Distribution:
    3 dedicated 20A feeds; APC H15; 4 Furman Miniport 20s
    *Bi-amped by years end
  • pitdogg2pitdogg2 Posts: 13,169
    Boy it's tiny :p
  • KingratKingrat Posts: 74
    I recently discovered my box of IMHO, failed, banana plugs. Most of them are no crimp/no solder types, but there are some that only take 14 gauge and up wire, or have only a tiny little wire socket that makes them very difficult to use I crimp and solder mine, and have a huge collection of short speaker cables going back about about 30 years when I converted my speakers over to bananas. I should probably sell the 40 or so Nakamichi (fakes?) I have just so someone else can maybe use them.
    The ones I use look pretty much identical to the big pic above. Crimp and solder, and never worry about them again.
    Cable atheist: They're just trying to get your money like a TV preacher!
    Vinyl system: I'm long done with the snap, crackle, and pop.
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