SVS SB1000 or Rhthmik L12 Direct Servo subwoofer?
afterburnt
Posts: 7,897
Around the same price which one do yall like?
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Not familiar with that rhythmic model, but had two SB1000’s. I really enjoyed them, but once I switched to a JL it was immediately apparent that the SB1000 was a one note pony. I would scrounge for at least a SB2000.2 channel:
Bryston 4B3, Bryston BDA3, Cary SLP05, Shanling CDT1000SE with parts conneXion level 2 mods, Nottingham analogue ace space 294, soundsmith Carmen MKii, Zu DL103 MKii, Ortofon MC 20 MKii, Dynavector XX2 MKii, Rogue Audio Ares, Core power technologies balanced power conditioner, Akiko Corelli power conditioner with Akiko Audio HQ power cable, Nordost heimdall 2, Frey 2, interconnects, speaker and power cables, Focal Electra 1028 BE 2, Auralic Aries Femto, Black diamond racing cones, ingress audio level 1 roller blocks, JL Audio E110 with Auralic subdude, Primacoustics room treatments.
Theater:
Focal Aria 926,905,CC900, SVS PB ultra x2. Pioneer Elite SC85, Oppo BDP93, Panamax M5400PM, Minix neox6, Nordost Blue heaven LS power cables. -
Music or movies? In my experience, SVS excels at movies and are not necessarily the most musical subs. Rhythmic has a definite edge in music, in my opinion.
“Human beings are born with different capacities. If they are free, they are not equal. And if they are equal, they are not free.”
― Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn -
Rhythmik
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For music - Rythmik. How big's your room, etc., etc, etc? Call them and give them the specifics and see what they recommend._____________________________________________________________________________________________
Ethernet Filter: GigaFOILv4 with Keces P3 LPS
Source: Roon via ethernet to DAC interface
DAC: Bricasti M1SE
Pre/Pro: Marantz AV8805
Tube Preamp Buffer: Tortuga TPB.V1
Amp1: Nord One NC1200DM Signature, Amp2: W4S MC-5, AMP3: W4S MMC-7
Front: Salk SoundScape 8's, Center: Salk SoundScape C7
Surround: Polk FXIA6, Surround Back: Polk RTIA9, Atmos: Polk 70-RT
Subs: 2 - Rythmik F25's
IC & Speaker Cables: Acoustic Zen, Wireworld, Signal Cable
Power Cables: Acoustic Zen, Wireworld, PS Audio
Room Treatments: GIK Acoustics -
The problem with SVS subs is that other than the SB1000 none have high level inputs, which are best for music. In fact, it's hard to find a quality sub that has high inputs any more.
Velodyne has them, but it appears to me they are going out of business, which would be a damn shame because their Optimum and DD Plus subs cover all the bases. JL Audio has high levels on their two lower models, but they aren't binding posts just some sort of BS bare wire connections and no calibration/DSP. Rythmik has them, but damn their subs are homely and again, no calibration/DPS.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
The problem with SVS subs is that other than the SB1000 none have high level inputs, which are best for music. In fact, it's hard to find a quality sub that has high inputs any more.
Velodyne has them, but it appears to me they are going out of business, which would be a damn shame because their Optimum and DD Plus subs cover all the bases. JL Audio has high levels on their two lower models, but they aren't binding posts just some sort of BS bare wire connections and no calibration/DSP. Rythmik has them, but damn their subs are homely and again, no calibration/DPS.
I thought the same thing about the JL with its cheesy connector for its high level inputs. But it’s small connector is actually nice, I built a nice cable using Mil spec silver over copper wire with tech flex and heat shrink. Spades on the amp end, and if you need to re-configure your set-up is can easily be unplugged.
JL does use calibration software, which unfortunately is only used on their F series subs, which are expensive, but can be had for a good price on the used market.
Too bad about velodyne, didn’t know they were in trouble.2 channel:
Bryston 4B3, Bryston BDA3, Cary SLP05, Shanling CDT1000SE with parts conneXion level 2 mods, Nottingham analogue ace space 294, soundsmith Carmen MKii, Zu DL103 MKii, Ortofon MC 20 MKii, Dynavector XX2 MKii, Rogue Audio Ares, Core power technologies balanced power conditioner, Akiko Corelli power conditioner with Akiko Audio HQ power cable, Nordost heimdall 2, Frey 2, interconnects, speaker and power cables, Focal Electra 1028 BE 2, Auralic Aries Femto, Black diamond racing cones, ingress audio level 1 roller blocks, JL Audio E110 with Auralic subdude, Primacoustics room treatments.
Theater:
Focal Aria 926,905,CC900, SVS PB ultra x2. Pioneer Elite SC85, Oppo BDP93, Panamax M5400PM, Minix neox6, Nordost Blue heaven LS power cables. -
@daddyjt Strictly music, like you everything that I have read gives the nod to Rhytmik.
@F1nut I would like to have a pair of them eventually. The longer I wait to get one, the longer I wait to get two. My guess is I am better off following Ron's suggestion so any sub is way over the horizon. Anyway with economy in mind which do you think will sound better out of anything that you can think of?
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The problem with SVS subs is that other than the SB1000 none have high level inputs, which are best for music. In fact, it's hard to find a quality sub that has high inputs any more.
Velodyne has them, but it appears to me they are going out of business, which would be a damn shame because their Optimum and DD Plus subs cover all the bases. JL Audio has high levels on their two lower models, but they aren't binding posts just some sort of BS bare wire connections and no calibration/DSP. Rythmik has them, but damn their subs are homely and again, no calibration/DPS.
I thought the same thing about the JL with its cheesy connector for its high level inputs. But it’s small connector is actually nice, I built a nice cable using Mil spec silver over copper wire with tech flex and heat shrink. Spades on the amp end, and if you need to re-configure your set-up is can easily be unplugged.
JL does use calibration software, which unfortunately is only used on their F series subs, which are expensive, but can be had for a good price on the used market.
Too bad about velodyne, didn’t know they were in trouble.
I take it you used bare wire at the sub end?
In reference to JL's calibration software is it called something specific?Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
Yes I used bare wire. The Mil Spec wire I used is nice, as it uses a braided shield and a twisted design. JL uses A.R.O (Automatic Room Optimization).
2 channel:
Bryston 4B3, Bryston BDA3, Cary SLP05, Shanling CDT1000SE with parts conneXion level 2 mods, Nottingham analogue ace space 294, soundsmith Carmen MKii, Zu DL103 MKii, Ortofon MC 20 MKii, Dynavector XX2 MKii, Rogue Audio Ares, Core power technologies balanced power conditioner, Akiko Corelli power conditioner with Akiko Audio HQ power cable, Nordost heimdall 2, Frey 2, interconnects, speaker and power cables, Focal Electra 1028 BE 2, Auralic Aries Femto, Black diamond racing cones, ingress audio level 1 roller blocks, JL Audio E110 with Auralic subdude, Primacoustics room treatments.
Theater:
Focal Aria 926,905,CC900, SVS PB ultra x2. Pioneer Elite SC85, Oppo BDP93, Panamax M5400PM, Minix neox6, Nordost Blue heaven LS power cables. -
What physical characteristics of a subwoofer make it appropriate/fast enough for music? I'm not sure I've ever heard a subwoofer than can "keep up" with some of the types of music that I listen to.
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Here's a good discussion
http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showthread.php?21597-What-is-the-most-musical-fast-and-accurate-subwoofer-you-have-heard2-channel: Modwright KWI-200 Integrated, Dynaudio C1-II Signatures
Desktop rig: LSi7, Polk 110sub, Dayens Ampino amp, W4S DAC/pre, Sonos, JRiver
Gear on standby: Melody 101 tube pre, Unison Research Simply Italy Integrated
Gone to new homes: (Matt Polk's)Threshold Stasis SA12e monoblocks, Pass XA30.5 amp, Usher MD2 speakers, Dynaudio C4 platinum speakers, Modwright LS100 (voltz), Simaudio 780D DAC
erat interfectorem cesar et **** dictatorem dicere a -
That discussion started off well enough, but ended a bit strangely.
In case anyone is wondering, the OP, our very own treitz3 ended up buying a pair of Rythmik F25's.
Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
Mike, I misunderstood your comment about A.R.O. I thought at first one could buy the A.R.O. calibration system separately and use it on the models it doesn't come with, but I now understand you were saying one could buy the sub models it does come with used.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
After reading about the Rythmik subs and checking out their website, I want one!
I bought this sub on the forums a while back: http://www.m-audio.com/products/view/bx-subwoofer
While it hit hard and went low, I found it to be slow and sloppy with plenty of port noise/chuffing. -
That discussion started off well enough, but ended a bit strangely.
In case anyone is wondering, the OP, our very own treitz3 ended up buying a pair of Rythmik F25's.
I did indeed. While I can not speak for the model afterburnt is inquiring about, my purchase of the pair of F25's is slated in my mind as one of the top 5 audio purchases I have made in my lifetime. If you know me, you will know that I have been through quite a lot of gear over the decades.
I think (just my opinion) that it isn't so much the name brand of the sub (referring to Ryhtmik) that makes it special, I think honestly that it's the direct servo technology. THIS is what I think makes the Rythmik subs. If you have not heard it yet, you owe it to yourself to hear one....from any manufacturer. Tight, accurate, powerful, precise *NO boom at the bottom whatsoever* and because of these quality traits, it makes them very easy to blend in with the rest of the system. I say this from experience with 2 direct Servo subs on 2 different systems I had to dial in.
Your headed in the right direction in choosing a sealed sub for Rythmik as well, FWIW.
While I have not heard either of the subs you have on your list, I am very familiar with both companies and their offerings over the years. If this were a decision that was up to me? I would choose the Rythmik. Not because of the name brand but because of the technology. Good luck with whatever it is you end up purchasing.
Tom
In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence.
~ The best way to enjoy digital music reproduction is to never listen to good analogue reproduction ~~ Not all things that can be measured can be heard and not all things heard can be measured ~
~ When the law ends, tyranny begins ~ -
^ I absolutely agree with Tom here. I have two Velodyne DD series subs - a DD12 and a DD18 - both of which have servo technology. In case you are unfamiliar, the servo feedback system places a small accelerometer on the cone of the sub, and the onboard computer instantly compares the motion of the cone to the incoming signal, eliminating distortion in real time. This technology allows an 18” driver to sound as quick and nimble as a 10”. Definitely worth the price of admission - especially for music!
“Human beings are born with different capacities. If they are free, they are not equal. And if they are equal, they are not free.”
― Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn -
I have a Rythmik F12SE that I picked up from a fellow Polkie. Absolutely loved it for music and love it also for HT. I miss it in my 2 channel room, so seriously looking at an L12 as I'm not too picky about the appearance (the SE is piano black).
The servo setup has never let me down vis-a-vis "keeping up" with any signal I throw at it, music or HT-wise.Living Room (HT):Denon AVR X-3000 ; Ascend Acoustics Sierra 2s ; Ascend Acoustics Duo Center ; LSiFX Surrounds ; Sub – Rhythmik F12SE
2 Channel Studio: Marantz PM8004 Integrated ; Marantz SA8004 ; Music Hall MMF 7.3TT w/Ortofon Bronze; Schiit Bifrost DAC ; Monitor 7 Series 2 with RDO 198s; Rythmik F12SE
Don't cry
Don't raise your eye
It's only teenage wasteland -
I have a Rythmik F12SE that I picked up from a fellow Polkie. Absolutely loved it for music and love it also for HT. I miss it in my 2 channel room, so seriously looking at an L12 as I'm not too picky about the appearance (the SE is piano black).
The servo setup has never let me down vis-a-vis "keeping up" with any signal I throw at it, music or HT-wise.
John, I know they make great subs and have a lot of manual adjustments for dialing them in. I don't know if manual or auto calibration/DSP is better than the other, but I do know the auto is easier.
I also know Rythmik has put most of their money into the performance, I just wish they would spruce up the cosmetics and offer remote control. I think people buying a quality sub wouldn't mind paying a bit more to get a bit more.
Velodyne never returned my 3 calls last week, so I sent them an email asking if they were going out of business. Wonder if they will respond?Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
I do not know where you heard that but I agree 100% brother. Not that they are slacking for basic build but an improved exterior would be most welcome.I also know Rythmik has put most of their money into the performance
Alas, they have hit their niche market and nailed it. Price to performance.
Tom
In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence.
~ The best way to enjoy digital music reproduction is to never listen to good analogue reproduction ~~ Not all things that can be measured can be heard and not all things heard can be measured ~
~ When the law ends, tyranny begins ~ -
I do not know where you heard that but I agree 100% brother. Not that they are slacking for basic build but an improved exterior would be most welcome.
Alas, they have hit their niche market and nailed it. Price to performance
That's not the reason I went Salk cabs. But, I sure am glad I did!Power Rogue M180 monos & Adcom GFA 5802
PS Audio PerfectWave Power Plant 10
Rears Salk SuperCharged Surrounds
Source PSA PWT into NSD Supremo
Pre/Pro Integra DHC 40.1
LCD Samsung LN46B750
Mains Salk HT2-TL
Center Salk HT2C
Pre Cary SLP-05
Wires WW & MIT -
Please clarify GlennDog. Whatchu'mean?
TomIn search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence.
~ The best way to enjoy digital music reproduction is to never listen to good analogue reproduction ~~ Not all things that can be measured can be heard and not all things heard can be measured ~
~ When the law ends, tyranny begins ~ -
If you want DSP, Rythmik will also help you set up using Minidsp products like...
https://www.minidsp.com/products/dirac-series/ddrc-24
or
https://www.minidsp.com/applications/digital-crossovers/subwoofer-integration-with-minidsp
2-channel: Modwright KWI-200 Integrated, Dynaudio C1-II Signatures
Desktop rig: LSi7, Polk 110sub, Dayens Ampino amp, W4S DAC/pre, Sonos, JRiver
Gear on standby: Melody 101 tube pre, Unison Research Simply Italy Integrated
Gone to new homes: (Matt Polk's)Threshold Stasis SA12e monoblocks, Pass XA30.5 amp, Usher MD2 speakers, Dynaudio C4 platinum speakers, Modwright LS100 (voltz), Simaudio 780D DAC
erat interfectorem cesar et **** dictatorem dicere a -
Please clarify GlennDog. Whatchu'mean?
Tom
I had Jim Salk build a custom cabinet to match my mains. I believe the only sub components/electronics he uses are Rythmik
http://salksound.com/model.php?model=Rythmik+15+SubwooferPower Rogue M180 monos & Adcom GFA 5802
PS Audio PerfectWave Power Plant 10
Rears Salk SuperCharged Surrounds
Source PSA PWT into NSD Supremo
Pre/Pro Integra DHC 40.1
LCD Samsung LN46B750
Mains Salk HT2-TL
Center Salk HT2C
Pre Cary SLP-05
Wires WW & MIT -
txcoastal1 wrote: »If you want DSP, Rythmik will also help you set up using Minidsp products like...
https://www.minidsp.com/products/dirac-series/ddrc-24
or
https://www.minidsp.com/applications/digital-crossovers/subwoofer-integration-with-minidsp
I’ve long toyed going w Dirac and the next buying a older Marantz AVR w preouts as I’d not need to worry about what version of Audyseey it has.
But I don’t think Dirac works w HDMI 2.0 or HDCP 2.w..."....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963) -
GD, please know that it's not a plug and play when it cones to direct servo. It's not like it's a DIY type of thing. That *may* work for some.
With that said, it's an all in one unit when it comes to Direct Servo. Anything less is garage Cerwin-Vega type stuff. There is NO DIY with Direct Servo.
FWIW.
TomIn search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence.
~ The best way to enjoy digital music reproduction is to never listen to good analogue reproduction ~~ Not all things that can be measured can be heard and not all things heard can be measured ~
~ When the law ends, tyranny begins ~ -
Tom, Salk uses the exact same components used in Rythmik subs, but the cabinets used are seriously beefed up. It's no DIY sub.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
txcoastal1 wrote: »If you want DSP, Rythmik will also help you set up using Minidsp products like...
https://www.minidsp.com/products/dirac-series/ddrc-24
or
https://www.minidsp.com/applications/digital-crossovers/subwoofer-integration-with-minidsp
Hmmmm.......interesting, thanks.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
txcoastal1 wrote: »If you want DSP, Rythmik will also help you set up using Minidsp products like...
https://www.minidsp.com/products/dirac-series/ddrc-24
or
https://www.minidsp.com/applications/digital-crossovers/subwoofer-integration-with-minidsp
Hmmmm.......interesting, thanks.
Been a while since I spoke of why my interests peaked adding subs to even systems with large speakers. It was 2013 at RMAF 2013 and a great presentation of Wilson Audio's TOTL Alexandria's paired with their Thor's hammer sub's. You would ask why?? At the time I was a 2chnl, 2 speaker guy, but after the demo got me wanting more.
Speakers should still be purchased according to size of room. Although the Alexandria's can dig deep on their own, when properly set up there's always that little more you can add to that live experience.
Anyway back to my endeavor that never finished out. I'd bought the Dyn C4's and wanted to add 2 Rythmik 15's. I wanted the blend to be perfect for the room which was going to be 16x21. I was originally looking at JL audio CR1, Pass Labs XVR-1 crossovers for the system.
I reached out to Rythmik due to reviews and they are also based in Texas. Enrico was great to speak with and very knowledgeable...here's one of his emails
Ron,
I would hold on the CR-1 until you try the subwoofers with the onboard controls. The C4s play down to 30Hz but I would crossover around 50Hz to take some stress out of the speakers. In that case you can send full range signal to the speakers and full range signal to the subwoofers and set the low pass filter on the subwoofer at 50Hz/24 and the crossover on the subwoofer at 50Hz as well in order to get 50Hz with 24dB/octave slope. Then set proper delay/phase on the subwoofers. If you like the results, which I know you are gonna love it, you can save $3000 on the CR-1.
Another option a little bit cheaper but IMHO more effective than the CR-1 is the miniDSP DDRC-88A which come with Dirac Live room correction system and can handle up to 8 channels. In your case you can have the two C4s + the pair of subwoofers and set delay/phase, levels and EQ for each one independently. The miniDSP DDCR-88A is $1000.
https://www.minidsp.com/products/dirac-series/ddrc-88a
Best Regards,
Enrico Castagnetti
Just thought I'd share
--Cheers
Ron
2-channel: Modwright KWI-200 Integrated, Dynaudio C1-II Signatures
Desktop rig: LSi7, Polk 110sub, Dayens Ampino amp, W4S DAC/pre, Sonos, JRiver
Gear on standby: Melody 101 tube pre, Unison Research Simply Italy Integrated
Gone to new homes: (Matt Polk's)Threshold Stasis SA12e monoblocks, Pass XA30.5 amp, Usher MD2 speakers, Dynaudio C4 platinum speakers, Modwright LS100 (voltz), Simaudio 780D DAC
erat interfectorem cesar et **** dictatorem dicere a -
I have a Rythmik F12SE that I picked up from a fellow Polkie. Absolutely loved it for music and love it also for HT. I miss it in my 2 channel room, so seriously looking at an L12 as I'm not too picky about the appearance (the SE is piano black).
The servo setup has never let me down vis-a-vis "keeping up" with any signal I throw at it, music or HT-wise.
John, I know they make great subs and have a lot of manual adjustments for dialing them in. I don't know if manual or auto calibration/DSP is better than the other, but I do know the auto is easier.
I also know Rythmik has put most of their money into the performance, I just wish they would spruce up the cosmetics and offer remote control. I think people buying a quality sub wouldn't mind paying a bit more to get a bit more.
Velodyne never returned my 3 calls last week, so I sent them an email asking if they were going out of business. Wonder if they will respond?
Can't argue with you about the looks, and know you're not a piano black dude, though I do feel that's the "looker" in their line.
Interesting point about more "goodies". They do offer a lower end line (e.g. L12 vs. F12) so maybe they should consider another higher end line for those willing to splurge a bit.Living Room (HT):Denon AVR X-3000 ; Ascend Acoustics Sierra 2s ; Ascend Acoustics Duo Center ; LSiFX Surrounds ; Sub – Rhythmik F12SE
2 Channel Studio: Marantz PM8004 Integrated ; Marantz SA8004 ; Music Hall MMF 7.3TT w/Ortofon Bronze; Schiit Bifrost DAC ; Monitor 7 Series 2 with RDO 198s; Rythmik F12SE
Don't cry
Don't raise your eye
It's only teenage wasteland -
How much better is the Rhythmic gear than the REL stuff?
