I'm German........absolutely no Kethup or Catsup on a bratwurst or any other German sausage!
"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass
Pass Aleph 30 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Plus DAC | MIT Shotgun S3 | MIT Z P/C's | updated SDA 1C| SQ Box Touch/Welbourne Labs P/S-Tubes add soul!
It's funny that for guys who never listen to mp3s and wouldn't touch them with a 10 foot pole, you sure seem to know a lot about them.
Are you sure you aren't basing your opinions about mp3 on that 128kbps Metallica track you downloaded off Napster back in 1999?
If you'd do a few quick google searches about 320s vs FLAC, you'd see that a/b blind testing results show the difference being indistinguishable.
Post edited by Clipdat on
"Electronic music is human sound adapting to indulge technology, and for some, it feels like the signature sound of energy. New and abstract sounds over hypnotic rhythms can conjure vast soundscapes for escape, pleasure, and transcendence."
Tony, as I mentioned to John a few posts up, I tried .wav files in my testing yesterday morning and I still noticed the same phase shifting ear fatiguing sensation from the apodizing filter.
I would suggest maybe playing a cd quality file through the Meridian and compare notes, see how that filter effects your ears on a different file format.
"Electronic music is human sound adapting to indulge technology, and for some, it feels like the signature sound of energy. New and abstract sounds over hypnotic rhythms can conjure vast soundscapes for escape, pleasure, and transcendence."
It's funny that for guys who never listen to mp3s and wouldn't touch them with a 10 foot pole, you sure seem to know a lot about them.
Are you sure you aren't basing your opinions about mp3 on that 128kbps Metallica track you downloaded off Napster back in 1999?
If you'd do a few quick google searches about 320s vs FLAC, you'd see that a/b blind testing results show the differences being indistinguishable.
That’s kinda like saying that since average joe box of wine drinker can’t tell the difference between his box cab and a $40 Napa cab, there isn’t a discernible difference.
HT Rig:
Denon AVR-X4200w; Peachtree Audio NovaPre; B&K TX4430; Bryson BPD-1; Mains: Dynaudio Excite x18; Center - Polk cs400i; Heights, Center Surround - Klipsch KHC - 6 In-Ceiling; Surrounds - Monoprice in-ceiling; Sub - HSU VTF-2 MK5; LG UP870 4K BDP; NVidia ShieldTV
; Master Bedroom
Cambridge Azur 551r; Definitive Technology SM45, NHT Super One CI surrounds, Martin Logan Dynamo (original), Squeezebox Touch
That’s kinda like saying that since average joe box of wine drinker can’t tell the difference between his box cab and a $40 Napa cab, there isn’t a discernible difference.
"Electronic music is human sound adapting to indulge technology, and for some, it feels like the signature sound of energy. New and abstract sounds over hypnotic rhythms can conjure vast soundscapes for escape, pleasure, and transcendence."
My initial thoughts when seeing this thread were the same as Brock’s and Jesse, but I refrained from chiming in.
Actually, the analogy from rooftop above is on point. Like with wine tasting for example, your ears have to be trained to hear a difference, simple as that.
A more accurate analogy would be saying "In a blind tasting, the average wine drinker would be unable to taste a difference between a Cabernet Sauvignon of the same vintage grape from a winery in Napa versus one from Sonoma."
Actually, the analogy from rooftop above is on point. Like with wine tasting for example, your ears have to be trained to hear a difference, simple as that.
"Electronic music is human sound adapting to indulge technology, and for some, it feels like the signature sound of energy. New and abstract sounds over hypnotic rhythms can conjure vast soundscapes for escape, pleasure, and transcendence."
"Electronic music is human sound adapting to indulge technology, and for some, it feels like the signature sound of energy. New and abstract sounds over hypnotic rhythms can conjure vast soundscapes for escape, pleasure, and transcendence."
Nobody wants to play a game of semantics...you get the point. You can’t take an average group of people and do blind testing and expect them to hear a difference when they’re not trained to do so. Remember, the vast majority of people are fine with Bose and Beats...those are the people doing your blind tears. If you’re in that group the. Swapping DACs is gonna be a waste of your time and money.
Haha, here we go again with the extremely judgemental "it's a waste of your time and money" response.
Out of the 5 DACs I've tried on my PC rig, none of them have been a "waste of time and money". Each one had their own unique sound signature that I could easily discern, even with my "casual listening" setup using 320s.
Swapping DACs is gonna be a waste of your time and money.
"Electronic music is human sound adapting to indulge technology, and for some, it feels like the signature sound of energy. New and abstract sounds over hypnotic rhythms can conjure vast soundscapes for escape, pleasure, and transcendence."
What they are saying is that you are doing yourself a disservice because while you can tell the difference, your not getting the full benefit you could because your source is bad.
If I was listening to MP3's with a low bitrate and decided to go from Polk Monitor 60's and a cheap Sony AVR (internal laptop soundcard to Usher Mini Dancers, LSiM 707's, and then also spend a couple thousand on better amps, a better receiver, etc (IE better DAC), you'd likely tell me I'm not getting as much out of the speakers as I could and that my money could be better spent on better quality source files.
Doesn't mean the MP3's wouldn't sound better than it was before, but it could be SO MUCH BETTER than it is, so judging the more expensive equipment on those MP3's does them and myself a disservice.
Thats what they are saying. You are taking this too personally as all we are saying is you owe it to yourself to try some higher fidelity files to see if that changes anything.
"....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963)
Thats what they are saying. You are taking this too personally as all we are saying is you owe it to yourself to try some higher fidelity files to see if that changes anything.
Or, to be honest, he can keep doing what's he's doing, and if that makes him happy, fine. I'll sleep easy either way.
"Electronic music is human sound adapting to indulge technology, and for some, it feels like the signature sound of energy. New and abstract sounds over hypnotic rhythms can conjure vast soundscapes for escape, pleasure, and transcendence."
Heck, it's just one data point here. Maybe someone else will review the same DAC with CD-quality FLACs, and then someone else can do it with 128s, and we'll see what conclusions they reach. I think this thread has run its course...
Yeah it has run it's course, because all you guys do is foam at the mouth and dogpile when you see that someone is using *gasp* horrible quality EMM PEE THREES!
If any of you actually stopped to read and comprehend, you'd see that I did test this DAC with .wav files as well.
The mob mentality and blind rage for something that you don't consider to be "right" on this forum is absolutely ridiculous.
Heck, it's just one data point here. Maybe someone else will review the same DAC with CD-quality FLACs, and then someone else can do it with 128s, and we'll see what conclusions they reach. I think this thread has run its course...
"Electronic music is human sound adapting to indulge technology, and for some, it feels like the signature sound of energy. New and abstract sounds over hypnotic rhythms can conjure vast soundscapes for escape, pleasure, and transcendence."
The mob mentality and blind rage for something that you don't consider to be "right" on this forum is absolutely ridiculous.
Relax man. I haven’t seen any blind rage here. Take it back a few notches. You’re sort of flying off the handle for no reason. Everything will be ok, it’s just the internet.
2 channel:
Bryston 4B3, Bryston BDA3, Cary SLP05, Shanling CDT1000SE with parts conneXion level 2 mods, Nottingham analogue ace space 294, soundsmith Carmen MKii, Zu DL103 MKii, Ortofon MC 20 MKii, Dynavector XX2 MKii, Rogue Audio Ares, Core power technologies balanced power conditioner, Akiko Corelli power conditioner with Akiko Audio HQ power cable, Nordost heimdall 2, Frey 2, interconnects, speaker and power cables, Focal Electra 1028 BE 2, Auralic Aries Femto, Black diamond racing cones, ingress audio level 1 roller blocks, JL Audio E110 with Auralic subdude, Primacoustics room treatments.
Theater:
Focal Aria 926,905,CC900, SVS PB ultra x2. Pioneer Elite SC85, Oppo BDP93, Panamax M5400PM, Minix neox6, Nordost Blue heaven LS power cables.
"That guy is tense. Tension is a killer. I used to be in a barbershop quartet in Skokie, Illinois. The baritone was this guy named Kip Diskin, big fat guy, I mean, like, orca fat. He was so stressed in the morning..."
Thats what they are saying. You are taking this too personally as all we are saying is you owe it to yourself to try some higher fidelity files to see if that changes anything.
Or, to be honest, he can keep doing what's he's doing, and if that makes him happy, fine. I'll sleep easy either way.
Totally agree. However we do him and the community a disservice by not pointing that a higher file rate may make things more enjoyable.
My library still has some MP3's from before I knew better. Then I learned and HEARD what better was and redid as much as I could off my CD's in FLAC.
I'm not suggesting the OP do that, simply saying he might try out some other file resolutions to see if he likes it better.
But to each their own.
"....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963)
If any of you actually stopped to read and comprehend, you'd see that I did test this DAC with .wav files as well.
Were the .wav files rips direct from the CD, or converted MP3's?
"....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963)
On a side note, if that were The Lightman (pat.pending) at the 1:40 mark, he would get out of his truck and start spreading some of his special "de-icer".
Sure, some folks might object but it would get the job done.
A lesson to be learned, I'd say.
.... not saying what that lesson would be, or that I'm right, but still: a lesson to be learned courtesy of The Lightman (t.m.).
MrBigBlueLight
Here to pick your brain & steal your cookies
Shifting to Plan B+
It's funny that for guys who never listen to mp3s and wouldn't touch them with a 10 foot pole, you sure seem to know a lot about them.
Are you sure you aren't basing your opinions about mp3 on that 128kbps Metallica track you downloaded off Napster back in 1999?
If you'd do a few quick google searches about 320s vs FLAC, you'd see that a/b blind testing results show the difference being indistinguishable.
Wrong again, I've done plenty of listening to many algorithms of MP3;s, they all are markedly inferior to a std file. MP3's dump information, information vital to reproducing the original sound accurately. I don't need to do Google searches, I learned it all on my own by experimenting. It wasn't a long experiment either, pretty apparent very early............really.
Why would anyone take a 1441 kbps music file and subtract 78% of the info to pare it down to 320 kbps and think the sound quality wouldn't suffer? It's absurd to think it would sound as good. On a good system mp3's sound terrible compared to the original.
P.S. Btw, you're the only one who's in a blind rage. Take a chill pill, and crank your favorite mp3's and relax.
"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass
Pass Aleph 30 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Plus DAC | MIT Shotgun S3 | MIT Z P/C's | updated SDA 1C| SQ Box Touch/Welbourne Labs P/S-Tubes add soul!
They absolutely are. Standard bit rate is 1441, 320 is 78% less information compared to the original. It's a low bitrate end of story. If you are going to try and argue that, you are very lost in this hobby.
"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass
Pass Aleph 30 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Plus DAC | MIT Shotgun S3 | MIT Z P/C's | updated SDA 1C| SQ Box Touch/Welbourne Labs P/S-Tubes add soul!
Comments
Pass Aleph 30 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Plus DAC | MIT Shotgun S3 | MIT Z P/C's | updated SDA 1C| SQ Box Touch/Welbourne Labs P/S- Tubes add soul!
Are you sure you aren't basing your opinions about mp3 on that 128kbps Metallica track you downloaded off Napster back in 1999?
If you'd do a few quick google searches about 320s vs FLAC, you'd see that a/b blind testing results show the difference being indistinguishable.
That’s kinda like saying that since average joe box of wine drinker can’t tell the difference between his box cab and a $40 Napa cab, there isn’t a discernible difference.
Denon AVR-X4200w; Peachtree Audio NovaPre; B&K TX4430; Bryson BPD-1; Mains: Dynaudio Excite x18; Center - Polk cs400i; Heights, Center Surround - Klipsch KHC - 6 In-Ceiling; Surrounds - Monoprice in-ceiling; Sub - HSU VTF-2 MK5; LG UP870 4K BDP; NVidia ShieldTV
;
Master Bedroom
Cambridge Azur 551r; Definitive Technology SM45, NHT Super One CI surrounds, Martin Logan Dynamo (original), Squeezebox Touch
My initial thoughts when seeing this thread were the same as Brock’s and Jesse, but I refrained from chiming in.
Actually, the analogy from rooftop above is on point. Like with wine tasting for example, your ears have to be trained to hear a difference, simple as that.
Out of the 5 DACs I've tried on my PC rig, none of them have been a "waste of time and money". Each one had their own unique sound signature that I could easily discern, even with my "casual listening" setup using 320s.
If I was listening to MP3's with a low bitrate and decided to go from Polk Monitor 60's and a cheap Sony AVR (internal laptop soundcard to Usher Mini Dancers, LSiM 707's, and then also spend a couple thousand on better amps, a better receiver, etc (IE better DAC), you'd likely tell me I'm not getting as much out of the speakers as I could and that my money could be better spent on better quality source files.
Doesn't mean the MP3's wouldn't sound better than it was before, but it could be SO MUCH BETTER than it is, so judging the more expensive equipment on those MP3's does them and myself a disservice.
Thats what they are saying. You are taking this too personally as all we are saying is you owe it to yourself to try some higher fidelity files to see if that changes anything.
If any of you actually stopped to read and comprehend, you'd see that I did test this DAC with .wav files as well.
The mob mentality and blind rage for something that you don't consider to be "right" on this forum is absolutely ridiculous.
Relax man. I haven’t seen any blind rage here. Take it back a few notches. You’re sort of flying off the handle for no reason. Everything will be ok, it’s just the internet.
Bryston 4B3, Bryston BDA3, Cary SLP05, Shanling CDT1000SE with parts conneXion level 2 mods, Nottingham analogue ace space 294, soundsmith Carmen MKii, Zu DL103 MKii, Ortofon MC 20 MKii, Dynavector XX2 MKii, Rogue Audio Ares, Core power technologies balanced power conditioner, Akiko Corelli power conditioner with Akiko Audio HQ power cable, Nordost heimdall 2, Frey 2, interconnects, speaker and power cables, Focal Electra 1028 BE 2, Auralic Aries Femto, Black diamond racing cones, ingress audio level 1 roller blocks, JL Audio E110 with Auralic subdude, Primacoustics room treatments.
Theater:
Focal Aria 926,905,CC900, SVS PB ultra x2. Pioneer Elite SC85, Oppo BDP93, Panamax M5400PM, Minix neox6, Nordost Blue heaven LS power cables.
Saying that it's "too hard" to pursue your dreams is no different than admitting to yourself that you are too lazy to achieve them.
“If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it.”
Totally agree. However we do him and the community a disservice by not pointing that a higher file rate may make things more enjoyable.
My library still has some MP3's from before I knew better. Then I learned and HEARD what better was and redid as much as I could off my CD's in FLAC.
I'm not suggesting the OP do that, simply saying he might try out some other file resolutions to see if he likes it better.
But to each their own.
Were the .wav files rips direct from the CD, or converted MP3's?
Sure, some folks might object but it would get the job done.
A lesson to be learned, I'd say.
.... not saying what that lesson would be, or that I'm right, but still: a lesson to be learned courtesy of The Lightman (t.m.).
Here to pick your brain & steal your cookies
Shifting to Plan B+
I've heard a slap upside the head causes humming too!
Office: PC, EAR Acute CD Player, EAR 834L Pre, PASS ACA Monoblocks, Denon UDR-F10 Cassette, Acoustic Technologies Classic FR Speakers, SVS SB12 Plus sub, MIT AVt2 speaker cables, IFI Purifier2, AQ Cinnamon USB cable, Groneberg Quatro Reference IC's
Spare Room: , Antique Sound Labs Wave AV-8 Monoblocks, Tisbury Mini Passive Pre, Tjoeb 99 tube CD player (modified Marantz CD-38), Analysis Plus Oval 9's, Zu Jumpers, AudioEngine B1 Streamer, Klipsch RB-61 v2, SVS PB1000 sub, Blue Jeans RCA IC's
Living Room: Peachtree Nova Integrated, Cambridge CXN v2 Streamer, Furman 15PFi Power Conditioner, Polk RT265 In Wall Speakers, Polk DSW Pro 660wi sub
Wrong again, I've done plenty of listening to many algorithms of MP3;s, they all are markedly inferior to a std file. MP3's dump information, information vital to reproducing the original sound accurately. I don't need to do Google searches, I learned it all on my own by experimenting. It wasn't a long experiment either, pretty apparent very early............really.
Why would anyone take a 1441 kbps music file and subtract 78% of the info to pare it down to 320 kbps and think the sound quality wouldn't suffer? It's absurd to think it would sound as good. On a good system mp3's sound terrible compared to the original.
P.S. Btw, you're the only one who's in a blind rage. Take a chill pill, and crank your favorite mp3's and relax.
Pass Aleph 30 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Plus DAC | MIT Shotgun S3 | MIT Z P/C's | updated SDA 1C| SQ Box Touch/Welbourne Labs P/S- Tubes add soul!
They absolutely are. Standard bit rate is 1441, 320 is 78% less information compared to the original. It's a low bitrate end of story. If you are going to try and argue that, you are very lost in this hobby.
Pass Aleph 30 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Plus DAC | MIT Shotgun S3 | MIT Z P/C's | updated SDA 1C| SQ Box Touch/Welbourne Labs P/S- Tubes add soul!
Nope THAT'S ringing
Does missing teeth also have an effect?
Office: PC, EAR Acute CD Player, EAR 834L Pre, PASS ACA Monoblocks, Denon UDR-F10 Cassette, Acoustic Technologies Classic FR Speakers, SVS SB12 Plus sub, MIT AVt2 speaker cables, IFI Purifier2, AQ Cinnamon USB cable, Groneberg Quatro Reference IC's
Spare Room: , Antique Sound Labs Wave AV-8 Monoblocks, Tisbury Mini Passive Pre, Tjoeb 99 tube CD player (modified Marantz CD-38), Analysis Plus Oval 9's, Zu Jumpers, AudioEngine B1 Streamer, Klipsch RB-61 v2, SVS PB1000 sub, Blue Jeans RCA IC's
Living Room: Peachtree Nova Integrated, Cambridge CXN v2 Streamer, Furman 15PFi Power Conditioner, Polk RT265 In Wall Speakers, Polk DSW Pro 660wi sub