JL In wall subwoofers
mantis
Posts: 15,979
By far the best I've ever had the pleasure of calibrating. What an amazing set of woofers, we had 2 in the Theater Room.
http://www.jlaudio.com/home-audio-in-wall-subwoofers-fathom-iws
http://www.jlaudio.com/home-audio-in-wall-subwoofers-fathom-iws
Dan
My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
Comments
These sub's do not perform like a typical in wall sub woofer. They out perform most in room subwoofers. They are truly amazing despite how much they cost.
In this Theater we did, we had 2 of them, dude I can't express how damn low they hit. I was just floored on the performance. I didn't expect them to perform like that.
They have a tuning microphone and man again I was floored on how well it worked. Crazy how smooth they where after the calibration.
My next Subwoofer purchase will be a JL audio.
My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
Bryston 4B3, Bryston BDA3, Cary SLP05, Shanling CDT1000SE with parts conneXion level 2 mods, Nottingham analogue ace space 294, soundsmith Carmen MKii, Zu DL103 MKii, Ortofon MC 20 MKii, Dynavector XX2 MKii, Rogue Audio Ares, Core power technologies balanced power conditioner, Akiko Corelli power conditioner with Akiko Audio HQ power cable, Nordost heimdall 2, Frey 2, interconnects, speaker and power cables, Focal Electra 1028 BE 2, Auralic Aries Femto, Black diamond racing cones, ingress audio level 1 roller blocks, JL Audio E110 with Auralic subdude, Primacoustics room treatments.
Theater:
Focal Aria 926,905,CC900, SVS PB ultra x2. Pioneer Elite SC85, Oppo BDP93, Panamax M5400PM, Minix neox6, Nordost Blue heaven LS power cables.
2 Channel Thorens TD 318 Grado ZF1, SACD/CD Marantz 8260, Soundstream/Krell DAC1, Audio Mirror PP1, Odyssey Stratos, ADS L-1290, ICs-DIY Twisted , Speaker-Raymond Cable
Double that
My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
That being said, JL Audio and REL would be my first choices for 2 channel audio while JTR, Seaton and DIY win my vote all day, every day and twice on Sunday.
"Unwad those panties and have a good time man. We're all here to help each other, no matter how it might appear." DSkip
My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
I am talking actual measurements, not vendor marketing hyperbole.
A 20hz wavelength is something like 56ft long. In a 20ft deep room, at that wavelength, the wavetrain would reflect 2.25 times before the second wavetrain is generated using a sine wave signal.
But this is why the best recommendation is for 4 subs centered on each wall...to smooth room modes and nulls.
"Unwad those panties and have a good time man. We're all here to help each other, no matter how it might appear." DSkip
http://www.moultonlabs.com/more/taming_the_big_wave/
"Unwad those panties and have a good time man. We're all here to help each other, no matter how it might appear." DSkip
I'd go JTR if I had decent money and no time, DIY if I had time and not a lot of money, and JL if I had Lots of money and no time...
Why would you say that about their auto audio drivers? Price?, comparison to current offerings from the competition? Same general design since forever?
We all know the home technologies stem off the auto W7 and Cleansweep technologies. I doubt JL could have entered the home market so far ahead in the game without the years of research in car audio. I remember the late great heavy hitter low end junkie Tom Nousaine had great things to day about the 12W7 when it released. I think it had the highest measuring (Car Stereo Review )low end to date back then. That thing was ahead of its time in low frequency performance and linearity.
Look at the numbers from waay back in 2002.
Freq. Response (in-lab): 38-158 Hz +/- 2.3 dB
Freq. Response (in-car): 10-120 Hz +/- 1.9 dB
In-Car Testing:
Average SPL with test tones (at 10% distortion limit, in car):
from 25-62 Hz, 126.1 dB,
from 10-62 Hz, 126.7 dB;
maximum, 129.9 dB at 4O Hz.
Maximum SPL with three bass tracks (in-car): average 129.8 dB;
maximum, 131.2 dB (with "976 Bass", from Bass Erotica's Bass Ecstacy (Neurodisc)."
Those were exemplary numbers back then and are pretty awesome numbers today. Yes, there are tons of other brands out now that perform for less money but JL has been using Klippel and there own measurement systems in their R&D for ages. They make high tech accurate drivers. I remember several audiophile types using the original W6 in their SQ cars. Those drivers were designed before the age of DUMAX or Klippel, etc. I used a later W6 for a brief period myself.
JL is just not a good value. $1299 for a 13W7AE is VERY steep. If I wanted some quality low end in the car, a couple of infinite baffle AE (Acoustic Elegance) Speaker IB15AU with the Apollo motor upgrade for $399 each would do the trick for less money. There are many other quality products out there as well.
Still, I'm not surprised at all about the performance of their Home, In-wall subs based on what they've done in car audio. JL was a subwoofer legend even before their home stuff came out in 2004. I remember the episode of Rev Run's Renovations where they redid his home theater. They used Kef Reference in-wall speakers and the JL Audio Fathom in-wall subs. This is the perfect application for those subs given the high end space limited setup.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/sets/72157650239108910
For hi end 2 channel audio the JL subs would be awesome if one were wealthy. However, if I could afford a $20K-$40K rig, While many would choose JL, REL, Rythmik, Velodyne, SVS, etc....I think I would have to try the Seaton Subversive subs heads up against the JL. Great sounding subs with the benefits of the opposed driver design.
For a mega buck dedicated Home theater, the awesome JL Fathom, Gotham would just get crazy expensive. JTR, Seaton, Danley, etc would have to be considered. The best of the bunch through comparison that I could afford would win.
HDTV - Sharp AQUOS LC-70LE600U 70" | AVR/Streamer - Onkyo TX-NR3008 | Amp - Parasound HCA-1203A
Blu-Ray/Media/Gaming - Sony PS3-320GB / Microsoft Xbox One | Broadcast - Xfinity X1 Platform
Front Spkrs - Coming...DIY Statement II | Center Spkrs - Coming...DIY Statement II | Rear Spkrs - Artison Portrait LRS
Sub - DIY Stereo Integrity HT 15 | Sub Amp - Dayton Audio SA1000
Wire - Audioquest Type 4, BJC Belden 5000 | HDMI - BJC Belden | Power Cables - Pangea | Surge - Monster
http://www.canuckaudiomart.com/details/649387027-pair-of-jl-audio-12-subwoofers-passive-f112/
Bryston 4B3, Bryston BDA3, Cary SLP05, Shanling CDT1000SE with parts conneXion level 2 mods, Nottingham analogue ace space 294, soundsmith Carmen MKii, Zu DL103 MKii, Ortofon MC 20 MKii, Dynavector XX2 MKii, Rogue Audio Ares, Core power technologies balanced power conditioner, Akiko Corelli power conditioner with Akiko Audio HQ power cable, Nordost heimdall 2, Frey 2, interconnects, speaker and power cables, Focal Electra 1028 BE 2, Auralic Aries Femto, Black diamond racing cones, ingress audio level 1 roller blocks, JL Audio E110 with Auralic subdude, Primacoustics room treatments.
Theater:
Focal Aria 926,905,CC900, SVS PB ultra x2. Pioneer Elite SC85, Oppo BDP93, Panamax M5400PM, Minix neox6, Nordost Blue heaven LS power cables.
Nevertheless, others have designed sealed and ported around the auto drivers.
HDTV - Sharp AQUOS LC-70LE600U 70" | AVR/Streamer - Onkyo TX-NR3008 | Amp - Parasound HCA-1203A
Blu-Ray/Media/Gaming - Sony PS3-320GB / Microsoft Xbox One | Broadcast - Xfinity X1 Platform
Front Spkrs - Coming...DIY Statement II | Center Spkrs - Coming...DIY Statement II | Rear Spkrs - Artison Portrait LRS
Sub - DIY Stereo Integrity HT 15 | Sub Amp - Dayton Audio SA1000
Wire - Audioquest Type 4, BJC Belden 5000 | HDMI - BJC Belden | Power Cables - Pangea | Surge - Monster
Ask @erniejade about the theater demo he got in Plainfield hehehe.... him and Skip likely left with bruises from that entire DIY home theater setup....
I've only had the pleasure to hear one of their home audio subs at an open house. In the few minutes I was able to play it was just fantastic. That Fathom hit nice, hard and tight.
But as with most audio gear it's all about the $$$$$.
Family Room:
Samsung UN75RU710DFXZA,
Denon AVR-X4400H, Emotiva XPA3 GEN3
Oppo BDP-93,Sony UBP-X800BM, WD Live HUB.
Main: Polk LsiM 705
Center: Polk LSiM 704C
Front High/Rear High In-Ceiling Polk 80F/X RT
Surrounds: Polk S15
Sub: HSU VTF3-MK5
Bed Room;
Marantz SR5010, BDP-S270
Main: Polk Signature S20
Center: Polk Signature S35
Rear: Polk R15
Sub: HSU STF-2
Working Warehouse;
Sony 2100ES AVR, Sony DVP-NS3100ES for disc
Cerwin Vega AT-12 (blasters) Advent Prodigy (listening)
Old sony 12" Sub
Mini tower PC with 400GB of music
I can tell you that guys were using 15W4's, 15W6's in both sound quality and SPL cars back then. Hitting 150-160dB in SPL and the SQ guy using them mated with systems that cost as much as a good home system and sound pretty damn good for a car audio system. Even if a guy was sponsored (most are not!) I don't see them using JL if their drivers were that weak in performance. The only time I went to IASCA finals was in 1999 and JL Audio was everywhere by then.
Nevertheless, the old tech is no where near the current W3, W6, W7 tech. The home stuff builds off the car stuff. Yes, they designed the home stuff from the ground up but some of the same patents are used. http://www.jlaudio.com/g213v2-gloss-home-audio-gotham-powered-subwoofers-96240#third If it were not for the years of research in car audio, they would not have been as far ahead in the home audio market. Their home success is a direct result of the work in car audio.
JL Makes solid equipment for the car and the home, Period! Their in-wall is again a result of their engineering efforts in great bass. https://jlaudio.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/212036617-Important-Facts-to-Know-When-Installing-the-Fathom-IWS
Now, price to performance is totally subjective...JL Is not cheap!
HDTV - Sharp AQUOS LC-70LE600U 70" | AVR/Streamer - Onkyo TX-NR3008 | Amp - Parasound HCA-1203A
Blu-Ray/Media/Gaming - Sony PS3-320GB / Microsoft Xbox One | Broadcast - Xfinity X1 Platform
Front Spkrs - Coming...DIY Statement II | Center Spkrs - Coming...DIY Statement II | Rear Spkrs - Artison Portrait LRS
Sub - DIY Stereo Integrity HT 15 | Sub Amp - Dayton Audio SA1000
Wire - Audioquest Type 4, BJC Belden 5000 | HDMI - BJC Belden | Power Cables - Pangea | Surge - Monster
I was not running JL at the time but my car was built for sound quality. As the years went on I got out of competing but still had solid built systems that started using JL W6's of different sizes.
As the 1990's went on JL began to produce better quality products. To this day they have concentrated on improvement. It shows in today’s product line.
But as we all know quality comes at a price.
Legacy Focus SE, 2 REL Carbon Limited, McIntosh C50, McIntosh MC601's, VPI Prime w/SoundSmith Zephyr MIMC, Parasound Halo JC3, Denon DP-59l w/Ortofon 2m Bronze, Marantz SA-14s1, Oppo BDP-105, Technics RS-1500, Furman Elite 15PFi, Douglas Connection (Furutech) Alpha Interconnects, Douglas Connection (Furutech) Alpha Speaker Cables, Pangea Power Cables
Now if a JL showed up at my door I would be more than willing to give it a try.
Family Room:
Samsung UN75RU710DFXZA,
Denon AVR-X4400H, Emotiva XPA3 GEN3
Oppo BDP-93,Sony UBP-X800BM, WD Live HUB.
Main: Polk LsiM 705
Center: Polk LSiM 704C
Front High/Rear High In-Ceiling Polk 80F/X RT
Surrounds: Polk S15
Sub: HSU VTF3-MK5
Bed Room;
Marantz SR5010, BDP-S270
Main: Polk Signature S20
Center: Polk Signature S35
Rear: Polk R15
Sub: HSU STF-2
Working Warehouse;
Sony 2100ES AVR, Sony DVP-NS3100ES for disc
Cerwin Vega AT-12 (blasters) Advent Prodigy (listening)
Old sony 12" Sub
Mini tower PC with 400GB of music
I don't care about the name on the sub or the spec's. When I sit down and calibrate a pair of subs into a room, I look for response and musically able to blend into the room and not call attention to themselves.
When I watch a action movie with a lot of low end, I look for realism and impact. Nothing worse then a one note wonder sub shakers crap.
The JL sub's blend into the room and add to the system everything you would expect from a high quality pair of in room subs which is something you don't expect from any in wall design. Some are very good and some are not. The JL's are an exception to all things in wall. I never heard in wall's perform like they do at any price point.
My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
HDTV - Sharp AQUOS LC-70LE600U 70" | AVR/Streamer - Onkyo TX-NR3008 | Amp - Parasound HCA-1203A
Blu-Ray/Media/Gaming - Sony PS3-320GB / Microsoft Xbox One | Broadcast - Xfinity X1 Platform
Front Spkrs - Coming...DIY Statement II | Center Spkrs - Coming...DIY Statement II | Rear Spkrs - Artison Portrait LRS
Sub - DIY Stereo Integrity HT 15 | Sub Amp - Dayton Audio SA1000
Wire - Audioquest Type 4, BJC Belden 5000 | HDMI - BJC Belden | Power Cables - Pangea | Surge - Monster
Dig this, Todd......I was at the same IASCA finals in '89. I was out there with Richard Clark and his Caddy Fleetwood. I'm pretty sure that's when he bought the Speakerworks Grand National. Man o man I loved working in that car!
That's really cool Russ. Funny how paths in this hobby cross. I remember talking about this with you 2 years ago at LSAF. Good Times....
Legacy Focus SE, 2 REL Carbon Limited, McIntosh C50, McIntosh MC601's, VPI Prime w/SoundSmith Zephyr MIMC, Parasound Halo JC3, Denon DP-59l w/Ortofon 2m Bronze, Marantz SA-14s1, Oppo BDP-105, Technics RS-1500, Furman Elite 15PFi, Douglas Connection (Furutech) Alpha Interconnects, Douglas Connection (Furutech) Alpha Speaker Cables, Pangea Power Cables
That year is kinda hazy.....
I bet it's a one handed affair as in 5 count them 5 days