JL In wall subwoofers

mantis
mantis Posts: 17,194
in Subwoofer Hookup & Bass Management
By far the best I've ever had the pleasure of calibrating. What an amazing set of woofers, we had 2 in the Theater Room.

http://www.jlaudio.com/home-audio-in-wall-subwoofers-fathom-iws
Dan
My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
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  • pitdogg2
    pitdogg2 Posts: 25,440
    When the audio mags did some test's on subwoofer's they had JL in wall and standard as well as other standard sub's. ALL the JL's tested out grade AAA. While most subs were down what say 3db at 20hz the JL's were just flat lined still at some serious Db's. But for that money I'd say it is an impressively built amp and enclosure. I could never afford one but I SURE do want to be an a room with one. I bet that last Mel Gibson war movie would be a great thing to hear and feel.
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  • mantis
    mantis Posts: 17,194
    edited November 2017

    These sub's do not perform like a typical in wall sub woofer. They out perform most in room subwoofers. They are truly amazing despite how much they cost.
    In this Theater we did, we had 2 of them, dude I can't express how damn low they hit. I was just floored on the performance. I didn't expect them to perform like that.
    They have a tuning microphone and man again I was floored on how well it worked. Crazy how smooth they where after the calibration.
    My next Subwoofer purchase will be a JL audio.
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
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  • mikeyb128
    mikeyb128 Posts: 2,885
    In my opinion JL make THE best subwoofers. You do get what you pay for with JL, outstanding build quality and power.
    2 channel:
    Bryston 4B3, Bryston BDA3, Cary SLP05, Shanling CDT1000SE with parts conneXion level 2 mods, Nottingham analogue ace space 294, soundsmith Carmen MKii, Zu DL103 MKii, Ortofon MC 20 MKii, Dynavector XX2 MKii, Rogue Audio Ares, Core power technologies balanced power conditioner, Akiko Corelli power conditioner with Akiko Audio HQ power cable, Nordost heimdall 2, Frey 2, interconnects, speaker and power cables, Focal Electra 1028 BE 2, Auralic Aries Femto, Black diamond racing cones, ingress audio level 1 roller blocks, JL Audio E110 with Auralic subdude, Primacoustics room treatments.
    Theater:
    Focal Aria 926,905,CC900, SVS PB ultra x2. Pioneer Elite SC85, Oppo BDP93, Panamax M5400PM, Minix neox6, Nordost Blue heaven LS power cables.

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  • Dennis Gardner
    Dennis Gardner Posts: 4,861
    Fathom that.....
    HT Optoma HD25 LV on 80" DIY Screen, Anthem MRX 300 Receiver, Pioneer Elite BDP 51FD Polk CS350LS, Polk SDA1C, Polk FX300, Polk RT55, Dual EBS Adire Shiva 320watt tuned to 17hz, ICs-DIY Twisted Prs, Speaker-Raymond Cable

    2 Channel Thorens TD 318 Grado ZF1, SACD/CD Marantz 8260, Soundstream/Krell DAC1, Audio Mirror PP1, Odyssey Stratos, ADS L-1290, ICs-DIY Twisted , Speaker-Raymond Cable
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  • pitdogg2
    pitdogg2 Posts: 25,440
    Dennis Gardner wrote: »
    Fathom that.....

    Double that
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  • mantis
    mantis Posts: 17,194
    mikeyb128 wrote: »
    In my opinion JL make THE best subwoofers. You do get what you pay for with JL, outstanding build quality and power.
    My opinion as well.

    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
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  • ZLTFUL
    ZLTFUL Posts: 5,648
    As much as I love the JL Audio home subs and they do everything amazingly well, there are at least 3 other companies that do so much more and better for less money. Granted, these are much larger options but show me a JL Audio sub that can do over 109db at 10hz and I will retract my above statement.

    That being said, JL Audio and REL would be my first choices for 2 channel audio while JTR, Seaton and DIY win my vote all day, every day and twice on Sunday.
    "Some people find it easier to be conceited rather than correct."

    "Unwad those panties and have a good time man. We're all here to help each other, no matter how it might appear." DSkip
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  • mantis
    mantis Posts: 17,194
    ZLTFUL wrote: »
    As much as I love the JL Audio home subs and they do everything amazingly well, there are at least 3 other companies that do so much more and better for less money. Granted, these are much larger options but show me a JL Audio sub that can do over 109db at 10hz and I will retract my above statement.

    That being said, JL Audio and REL would be my first choices for 2 channel audio while JTR, Seaton and DIY win my vote all day, every day and twice on Sunday.
    Spec's are spec's. Show me a room that can complete a 10hz cycle or even a 20hz cycle.
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
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  • ZLTFUL
    ZLTFUL Posts: 5,648
    edited November 2017
    Head over to data-bass.com

    I am talking actual measurements, not vendor marketing hyperbole.

    A 20hz wavelength is something like 56ft long. In a 20ft deep room, at that wavelength, the wavetrain would reflect 2.25 times before the second wavetrain is generated using a sine wave signal.
    But this is why the best recommendation is for 4 subs centered on each wall...to smooth room modes and nulls.
    "Some people find it easier to be conceited rather than correct."

    "Unwad those panties and have a good time man. We're all here to help each other, no matter how it might appear." DSkip
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  • ZLTFUL
    ZLTFUL Posts: 5,648
    A great white paper on the subject if you want to get beyond vendor marketing literature and get into the actual science:
    http://www.moultonlabs.com/more/taming_the_big_wave/
    "Some people find it easier to be conceited rather than correct."

    "Unwad those panties and have a good time man. We're all here to help each other, no matter how it might appear." DSkip
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  • pitdogg2
    pitdogg2 Posts: 25,440
    In my 12x15 room i used 2 subs one in front one in back in opposite corners. Worked out great.
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  • EndersShadow
    EndersShadow Posts: 17,590
    I've heard JTR, I've heard and build DIY, and I've heard JL....

    I'd go JTR if I had decent money and no time, DIY if I had time and not a lot of money, and JL if I had Lots of money and no time...
    "....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963)
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  • WLDock
    WLDock Posts: 3,073
    edited November 2017
    nbrowser wrote: »
    They make great home sub systems...bare automotive drivers...not so much.

    Why would you say that about their auto audio drivers? Price?, comparison to current offerings from the competition? Same general design since forever?

    We all know the home technologies stem off the auto W7 and Cleansweep technologies. I doubt JL could have entered the home market so far ahead in the game without the years of research in car audio. I remember the late great heavy hitter low end junkie Tom Nousaine had great things to day about the 12W7 when it released. I think it had the highest measuring (Car Stereo Review )low end to date back then. That thing was ahead of its time in low frequency performance and linearity.

    Look at the numbers from waay back in 2002.

    Freq. Response (in-lab): 38-158 Hz +/- 2.3 dB
    Freq. Response (in-car): 10-120 Hz +/- 1.9 dB

    In-Car Testing:
    Average SPL with test tones (at 10% distortion limit, in car):

    from 25-62 Hz, 126.1 dB,
    from 10-62 Hz, 126.7 dB;
    maximum, 129.9 dB at 4O Hz.
    Maximum SPL with three bass tracks (in-car): average 129.8 dB;
    maximum, 131.2 dB (with "976 Bass", from Bass Erotica's Bass Ecstacy (Neurodisc)."

    Those were exemplary numbers back then and are pretty awesome numbers today. Yes, there are tons of other brands out now that perform for less money but JL has been using Klippel and there own measurement systems in their R&D for ages. They make high tech accurate drivers. I remember several audiophile types using the original W6 in their SQ cars. Those drivers were designed before the age of DUMAX or Klippel, etc. I used a later W6 for a brief period myself.

    JL is just not a good value. $1299 for a 13W7AE is VERY steep. If I wanted some quality low end in the car, a couple of infinite baffle AE (Acoustic Elegance) Speaker IB15AU with the Apollo motor upgrade for $399 each would do the trick for less money. There are many other quality products out there as well.

    Still, I'm not surprised at all about the performance of their Home, In-wall subs based on what they've done in car audio. JL was a subwoofer legend even before their home stuff came out in 2004. I remember the episode of Rev Run's Renovations where they redid his home theater. They used Kef Reference in-wall speakers and the JL Audio Fathom in-wall subs. This is the perfect application for those subs given the high end space limited setup.

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/58319891@N08/sets/72157650239108910


    For hi end 2 channel audio the JL subs would be awesome if one were wealthy. However, if I could afford a $20K-$40K rig, While many would choose JL, REL, Rythmik, Velodyne, SVS, etc....I think I would have to try the Seaton Subversive subs heads up against the JL. Great sounding subs with the benefits of the opposed driver design.

    For a mega buck dedicated Home theater, the awesome JL Fathom, Gotham would just get crazy expensive. JTR, Seaton, Danley, etc would have to be considered. The best of the bunch through comparison that I could afford would win.
    Post edited by WLDock on
    2.2 Office Setup | LG 29UB55 21:9 UltraWide | HP Probook 630 G8 | Dell Latitude | Cabasse Stream Amp 100 | Boston Acoustics VS 240 | AUDIORAX Desk Stands | Mirage Omni S8 sub1 | Mirage Omni S8 Sub2
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  • mikeyb128
    mikeyb128 Posts: 2,885
    I think we can make everyone in this thread happy and do what this guy did:

    http://www.canuckaudiomart.com/details/649387027-pair-of-jl-audio-12-subwoofers-passive-f112/
    2 channel:
    Bryston 4B3, Bryston BDA3, Cary SLP05, Shanling CDT1000SE with parts conneXion level 2 mods, Nottingham analogue ace space 294, soundsmith Carmen MKii, Zu DL103 MKii, Ortofon MC 20 MKii, Dynavector XX2 MKii, Rogue Audio Ares, Core power technologies balanced power conditioner, Akiko Corelli power conditioner with Akiko Audio HQ power cable, Nordost heimdall 2, Frey 2, interconnects, speaker and power cables, Focal Electra 1028 BE 2, Auralic Aries Femto, Black diamond racing cones, ingress audio level 1 roller blocks, JL Audio E110 with Auralic subdude, Primacoustics room treatments.
    Theater:
    Focal Aria 926,905,CC900, SVS PB ultra x2. Pioneer Elite SC85, Oppo BDP93, Panamax M5400PM, Minix neox6, Nordost Blue heaven LS power cables.

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  • WLDock
    WLDock Posts: 3,073
    edited November 2017
    I clearly remember reading that the home stuff builds off the automotive technologies and patents HOWEVER, the home drivers have different parameters. Further, I do believe the Gotham drivers are supposed to be proprietary to that sub...as in the State of The Art (Think F1 race car) and the pinnacle of their technologies.

    Nevertheless, others have designed sealed and ported around the auto drivers.
    2.2 Office Setup | LG 29UB55 21:9 UltraWide | HP Probook 630 G8 | Dell Latitude | Cabasse Stream Amp 100 | Boston Acoustics VS 240 | AUDIORAX Desk Stands | Mirage Omni S8 sub1 | Mirage Omni S8 Sub2
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  • pitdogg2
    pitdogg2 Posts: 25,440
    I bet they still could punch dead center in the chest like a sledgehammer with the right amp.
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  • EndersShadow
    EndersShadow Posts: 17,590
    pitdogg2 wrote: »
    I bet they still could punch dead center in the chest like a sledgehammer with the right amp.

    Ask @erniejade about the theater demo he got in Plainfield hehehe.... him and Skip likely left with bruises from that entire DIY home theater setup....
    "....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963)
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  • pitdogg2
    pitdogg2 Posts: 25,440
    edited November 2017
    With any luck I'll meet him and ask him on the 18th. :#;)
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  • mrloren
    mrloren Posts: 2,464
    I had a pair of JL 10W3 in my 99 Nissan extra cab powered by a Punch 800.. Oh man did that ever hit.

    I've only had the pleasure to hear one of their home audio subs at an open house. In the few minutes I was able to play it was just fantastic. That Fathom hit nice, hard and tight.

    But as with most audio gear it's all about the $$$$$.
    When I was a kid my parents told me to turn it down. Now I'm an adult and my kids tell me to turn it down.
    Family Room:LG QNED80 75", Onkyo RZ50 Emotiva XPA3 GEN3 Oppo BDP-93,Sony UBP-X800BM. Main: Polk LsiM 705Center: Polk LSiM 704CFront High/Rear High In-Ceiling Polk 80F/X RT Surrounds: Polk S15 Sub: HSU VTF3-MK5
    Bed Room; Marantz SR5010, BDP-S270Main: Polk Signature S20Center: Polk Signature S35Rear: Polk R15 Sub: SVS SB2000
    Working Warehouse; Yamaha A-S301, Sony DVP-NS3100ES for disc Plok TSX550T SVS PB2000 Mini tower PC with 400GB of music
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  • WLDock
    WLDock Posts: 3,073
    edited November 2017
    nbrowser wrote: »
    WLDock wrote: »
    nbrowser wrote: »
    They make great home sub systems...bare automotive drivers...not so much.
    Why would you say that about their auto audio drivers? Price?, comparison to current offerings from the competition? Same general design since forever?
    Because I could snap the leads off any JL driver of the day with a bridged mono Alpine MRV-T502 amplifier, at half crank. They were weak back in '90s...after the 8th warranty driver they bought me a replacement from another manufacturer, that driver I still have almost 20 years later. We are talking mid to late '90s mind you.
    Oh my, it looks like you had a horrible JL experience back then and have not looked at JL since.

    I can tell you that guys were using 15W4's, 15W6's in both sound quality and SPL cars back then. Hitting 150-160dB in SPL and the SQ guy using them mated with systems that cost as much as a good home system and sound pretty damn good for a car audio system. Even if a guy was sponsored (most are not!) I don't see them using JL if their drivers were that weak in performance. The only time I went to IASCA finals was in 1999 and JL Audio was everywhere by then.

    Nevertheless, the old tech is no where near the current W3, W6, W7 tech. The home stuff builds off the car stuff. Yes, they designed the home stuff from the ground up but some of the same patents are used. http://www.jlaudio.com/g213v2-gloss-home-audio-gotham-powered-subwoofers-96240#third If it were not for the years of research in car audio, they would not have been as far ahead in the home audio market. Their home success is a direct result of the work in car audio.

    JL Makes solid equipment for the car and the home, Period! Their in-wall is again a result of their engineering efforts in great bass. https://jlaudio.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/212036617-Important-Facts-to-Know-When-Installing-the-Fathom-IWS


    Now, price to performance is totally subjective...JL Is not cheap!

    2.2 Office Setup | LG 29UB55 21:9 UltraWide | HP Probook 630 G8 | Dell Latitude | Cabasse Stream Amp 100 | Boston Acoustics VS 240 | AUDIORAX Desk Stands | Mirage Omni S8 sub1 | Mirage Omni S8 Sub2
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  • tratliff
    tratliff Posts: 1,701
    I was invited to compete in CAN (Car Audio Nationals) held in Mobile Alabama in 1988 and in the IASCA finals held in Arizona in 1989. At this time JL was in many of the SPL cars.

    I was not running JL at the time but my car was built for sound quality. As the years went on I got out of competing but still had solid built systems that started using JL W6's of different sizes.

    As the 1990's went on JL began to produce better quality products. To this day they have concentrated on improvement. It shows in today’s product line.

    But as we all know quality comes at a price.
    2 Channel Rosso Fiorentino Volterra II, 2 REL Carbon Limited, Norma Revo IPA-140B, Lumin U2 Mini, VPI Prime w/SoundSmith Zephyr MIMC, Modwright PH 150, Denon DP-59l w/Denon DL-301MKII, WAY Silver 3 Ana+ Speaker Cables, WAY Silver 4+ Interconnect Cables, AudioQuest Niagara 7000 w/Dragon and Hurricane Power Cables
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  • mrloren
    mrloren Posts: 2,464
    I totally agree that JL makes a very good product. I am not into car audio any more, been out of that for 15+ years. Their home audio subs are way out of my price range.

    Now if a JL showed up at my door I would be more than willing to give it a try.
    When I was a kid my parents told me to turn it down. Now I'm an adult and my kids tell me to turn it down.
    Family Room:LG QNED80 75", Onkyo RZ50 Emotiva XPA3 GEN3 Oppo BDP-93,Sony UBP-X800BM. Main: Polk LsiM 705Center: Polk LSiM 704CFront High/Rear High In-Ceiling Polk 80F/X RT Surrounds: Polk S15 Sub: HSU VTF3-MK5
    Bed Room; Marantz SR5010, BDP-S270Main: Polk Signature S20Center: Polk Signature S35Rear: Polk R15 Sub: SVS SB2000
    Working Warehouse; Yamaha A-S301, Sony DVP-NS3100ES for disc Plok TSX550T SVS PB2000 Mini tower PC with 400GB of music
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  • mantis
    mantis Posts: 17,194
    I will say this, Subwoofer spec's never ever impress me. I have heard so many awesome spec'd subs that sound horrible.
    I don't care about the name on the sub or the spec's. When I sit down and calibrate a pair of subs into a room, I look for response and musically able to blend into the room and not call attention to themselves.
    When I watch a action movie with a lot of low end, I look for realism and impact. Nothing worse then a one note wonder sub shakers crap.

    The JL sub's blend into the room and add to the system everything you would expect from a high quality pair of in room subs which is something you don't expect from any in wall design. Some are very good and some are not. The JL's are an exception to all things in wall. I never heard in wall's perform like they do at any price point.
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
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  • WLDock
    WLDock Posts: 3,073
    Yes, specs are just one part of it. Good measured response in the room, Crossover integration, Phase alignment, etc, etc.
    2.2 Office Setup | LG 29UB55 21:9 UltraWide | HP Probook 630 G8 | Dell Latitude | Cabasse Stream Amp 100 | Boston Acoustics VS 240 | AUDIORAX Desk Stands | Mirage Omni S8 sub1 | Mirage Omni S8 Sub2
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  • lightman1
    lightman1 Posts: 10,788
    tratliff wrote: »
    I was invited to compete in CAN (Car Audio Nationals) held in Mobile Alabama in 1988 and in the IASCA finals held in Arizona in 1989. At this time JL was in many of the SPL cars

    Dig this, Todd......I was at the same IASCA finals in '89. I was out there with Richard Clark and his Caddy Fleetwood. I'm pretty sure that's when he bought the Speakerworks Grand National. Man o man I loved working in that car!

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  • tratliff
    tratliff Posts: 1,701
    lightman1 wrote: »
    tratliff wrote: »
    I was invited to compete in CAN (Car Audio Nationals) held in Mobile Alabama in 1988 and in the IASCA finals held in Arizona in 1989. At this time JL was in many of the SPL cars

    Dig this, Todd......I was at the same IASCA finals in '89. I was out there with Richard Clark and his Caddy Fleetwood. I'm pretty sure that's when he bought the Speakerworks Grand National. Man o man I loved working in that car!

    That's really cool Russ. Funny how paths in this hobby cross. I remember talking about this with you 2 years ago at LSAF. Good Times....

    2 Channel Rosso Fiorentino Volterra II, 2 REL Carbon Limited, Norma Revo IPA-140B, Lumin U2 Mini, VPI Prime w/SoundSmith Zephyr MIMC, Modwright PH 150, Denon DP-59l w/Denon DL-301MKII, WAY Silver 3 Ana+ Speaker Cables, WAY Silver 4+ Interconnect Cables, AudioQuest Niagara 7000 w/Dragon and Hurricane Power Cables
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  • lightman1
    lightman1 Posts: 10,788
    tratliff wrote: »
    lightman1 wrote: »
    tratliff wrote: »
    I was invited to compete in CAN (Car Audio Nationals) held in Mobile Alabama in 1988 and in the IASCA finals held in Arizona in 1989. At this time JL was in many of the SPL cars

    Dig this, Todd......I was at the same IASCA finals in '89. I was out there with Richard Clark and his Caddy Fleetwood. I'm pretty sure that's when he bought the Speakerworks Grand National. Man o man I loved working in that car!

    That's really cool Russ. Funny how paths in this hobby cross. I remember talking about this with you 2 years ago at LSAF. Good Times....

    That year is kinda hazy..... :#
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  • pitdogg2
    pitdogg2 Posts: 25,440
    DSkip wrote: »
    lightman1 wrote: »
    tratliff wrote: »
    lightman1 wrote: »
    tratliff wrote: »
    I was invited to compete in CAN (Car Audio Nationals) held in Mobile Alabama in 1988 and in the IASCA finals held in Arizona in 1989. At this time JL was in many of the SPL cars

    Dig this, Todd......I was at the same IASCA finals in '89. I was out there with Richard Clark and his Caddy Fleetwood. I'm pretty sure that's when he bought the Speakerworks Grand National. Man o man I loved working in that car!

    That's really cool Russ. Funny how paths in this hobby cross. I remember talking about this with you 2 years ago at LSAF. Good Times....

    That year is kinda hazy..... :#

    How much of this year do you remember?

    I bet it's a one handed affair as in 5 count them 5 days
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