Bi-Amping 2.3TL's with Adcom 555 II

Viking64
Viking64 Posts: 7,032
edited October 2010 in Electronics
Hello, I am looking to get more out of my Polk SRS 2.3 TL's. I am currently powering them with an Adcom GFA 555 II power amp (200 watts). They are bi-wired with Monster Z Series Speaker Cables. I want to bi-amplify the 2.3's but I am not sure which method is best. The Adcom is bridgeable, resulting in 600 watts. Would it be better to get another used GFA 555 II (for approxiamately $400) and bridge them both, thus using one per each channel @ 600 watts and maintain my bi-wiring set-up, or should I use one for low pass and one for high at 200 watts each? I have been told by some "experts" that my high pass amp should be half the wattage of the low, but my original user guide from Polk says they should be equal, if not identical amps. I have been told that 200 watts is WAY too much for the high end in ANY speaker by a representative at the Polk dealer where I bought them in 1992. He recommended that I use the Adcom for the low pass and jumper (via 2 "y" cables splitting from the pre/main coupler on my Yamaha DSP A-1) through the internal 110 watt main amp and out to the high pass. Also, would bridging two GFA 555 II's result in any issue regarding "non-common ground" amps that I have read about?
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  • george daniel
    george daniel Posts: 12,096
    edited October 2010
    if you use monos you should comply and use the AI-1 non common ground interface.
    Bridging 555's is painful to one ears-- just my .02

    I think that you would be better off spending the monies or tubed amplification,,ot a better ss amp with more current/power,, such as Parasound,Musical Fidelity,,VTL,Manley,Belles 350 a reference,,etc-- good luck :)
    JC approves....he told me so. (F-1 nut)
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  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 32,952
    edited October 2010
    I agree with George. Plus in bridged mode,the amps may not handle less than 8 ohms very well. Spend the cash on a better amp.
    HT SYSTEM-
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  • george daniel
    george daniel Posts: 12,096
    edited October 2010
    I've actually run a pair of 2.3tl's with bridged adcoms--IMHO-it was not worth the time/effort,,it lasted all of 20 minutes,,let us know what you do. :)
    JC approves....he told me so. (F-1 nut)
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  • Viking64
    Viking64 Posts: 7,032
    edited October 2010
    george daniel wrote: »
    I've actually run a pair of 2.3tl's with bridged adcoms--IMHO-it was not worth the time/effort,,it lasted all of 20 minutes,,let us know what you do. :)

    Well, I guess I won't be perusing Craigslist for a twin 555!!! :D

    Thanks everyone for your input.
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  • george daniel
    george daniel Posts: 12,096
    edited October 2010
    Are the croosovers upgraded,and do you have the replacement tweeters,,if not,,might I suggest you spend the money on sonicaps,mills,and RDO 198's,, I think that you will be more than pleased with the results.
    JC approves....he told me so. (F-1 nut)
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  • Viking64
    Viking64 Posts: 7,032
    edited October 2010
    george daniel wrote: »
    Are the croosovers upgraded,and do you have the replacement tweeters,,if not,,might I suggest you spend the money on sonicaps,mills,and RDO 198's,, I think that you will be more than pleased with the results.

    Everything is original except I have fried and replaced one tweeter in each cabinet and I put an inline fuse in to prevent it from happening again (per someone at Polk circa 1994).

    I have read about the RDO 198's for the first time on here today and I am interested. Where can I find them? Also, can you please define "sonicaps" and "mills" for me? :o
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  • Osarion
    Osarion Posts: 181
    edited October 2010
    You can order the RDO's from Polk at the # at the top of the page. Sonicaps are a brand of capacitor and mills are the brand of resistors that are recommended to upgrade the crossovers.
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  • george daniel
    george daniel Posts: 12,096
    edited October 2010
    here you go--sonicap brand of capacitors and mills resistors,,your caps and resistors are getting close to 20 years now.A significant upgrade awaits your ears :)


    http://www.soniccraft.com/sonicaps.htm

    http://www.soniccraft.com/mills_resistors.htm
    JC approves....he told me so. (F-1 nut)
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,469
    edited October 2010
    Do the crossover upgrades and the RDO198-1 tweeters. Then, apply Dynamat Extreme to the stamped steel baskets, upgrade the binding posts and install Larry's rings. You'll think you died and went to audio heaven. Oh yeah, a different amp would be a good idea too.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • dpowell
    dpowell Posts: 3,067
    edited October 2010
    F1nut wrote: »
    Do the crossover upgrades and the RDO198-1 tweeters. Then, apply Dynamat Extreme to the stamped steel baskets, upgrade the binding posts and install Larry's rings. You'll think you died and went to audio heaven. Oh yeah, a different amp would be a good idea too.

    +1 What he said.
    ____________________________________________________________

    polkaudio Fully Modded SDA SRS 1.2TLs + Dreadnaught, LSiM706c, 4 X Polk Surrounds + 4 X ATMOS, SVS PB13 Ultra X 2, Pass Labs X1, Marantz 7704, Bob Carver Crimson Beauty 350 Tube Mono Blocks, Carver Sunfire Signature Cinema Grande 400x5, ADCOM GFA 7807, Panasonic UB420, Moon 380D DAC, EPSON Pro Cinema 6050
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  • Viking64
    Viking64 Posts: 7,032
    edited October 2010
    Thanks everyone. I will take some time and do some research on this site and upgrade as recommended. Both the bass radiators and the mids were manufactured in June, 1989 so there is definitely some aging involved. I haven't had my whole system set up since 2003 and the 2.3's have been in storage in a non-climate controlled unit in Florida all of these years. I may have even more work cut out for me. I am back in my home state and I am going to spend the winter in a huge house in the country with a windowless room of ideal proportions for my gear. :P

    P.S. - Santa Claus will be bringing me a tube amp this Christmas I assure you. :)
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  • Viking64
    Viking64 Posts: 7,032
    Sorry if bumping old posts is frowned upon. :D I wanted to update this thread. I have been reading a lot of related 2.3TL stuff and I have decided to dive into the world of that lovely amber glow. Last night I ordered an MS38SE from Ray at Silk Audio. It is already on it's way to me. :) I have NEVER heard a tube amp in ANY home stereo and I am very excited.

    Today I ordered the Fortress crossover mod from Trey(?) at Vr3 Mods. That amp should be approaching a sweet state of burn-in by the time that build is complete. Do my ears even deserve this? HAHAHAHA

    Meanwhile, I plan to update the SL3000's to the proper RDO's. I read somewhere on here where someone recommended disconnecting 2 of the 4 tweeters in a pair of 1.2TL's. Has anyone heard of a similar recommendation for the 2.3's? Or should I just go ahead and buy all 6?

    I have seen photos of a Dynamat mod, and that too is on my list. That leaves hurricane nuts and Larry's rings. Can anyone point me in the right direction for both of those?

    I will do some more research as far as what do do about glue deterioration and wandering magnets, or whatever the term was. :D I added the floor spikes for the first time ever yesterday, and there was a nice improvement as far as low-end punchiness.
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  • Viking64
    Viking64 Posts: 7,032
    Reading my sig, I have to laugh. :p After 23 years, my Adcom GFA555II died last year. I currently don't have my rear speakers or sub hooked-up. And I never use my center speaker, as movie vocals sound better through my 2.3's than my little, dinky CS400. I guess I have become a 2-channel man by default. HAHAHAHA What a perfect time to upgrade the SDA crossovers and "tube it".
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  • agfrost
    agfrost Posts: 2,426
    There are people more knowledgeable about the 2.3TL than I, but I'll take a shot...

    •No benefit on doing less than all the tweeters--buy all 6: "In for a penny, in for a pound!"

    •Larry makes rings "periodically" and the period differs. You can inquire as to whether he has a set for your speakers at the moment, but if not you will have to wait... He makes them in large bunches when demand, his workload, and his equipment availability all come together.

    •There are a lot of threads about preventing magnet shift. This thread shows the "current state-of-the-art" in material (Loctite Power Grab) and technique (where to put it).

    •"Do my ears even deserve this?" --I can't answer that one. If you've been nice to your family, your coworkers, and animals you're probably OK. You may want to donate a few bucks toward Harvey disaster relief funds just to be safe.

    Anyway, enjoy the journey! You're making some significant changes (crossovers & amplification), so your listening experience should definitely be different. Post back after you've had your ears on things for awhile, I for one will enjoy reading your impressions.
    Jay
    SDA 2BTL * Musical Fidelity A5cr amp * Oppo BDP-93 * Modded Adcom GDA-600 DAC * Rythmik F8 (x2)
    Micro Seiki DQ-50 * Hagerman Cornet 2 Phono * A hodgepodge of cabling * Belkin PF60
    Preamp rotation: Krell KSL (SCompRacer recapped) * Manley Shrimp * PS Audio 5.0
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  • Viking64
    Viking64 Posts: 7,032
    Thank you, Jay! I appreciate your advice. The amp should be here soon. I expect that I will be very impressed right out-of-the-box. My Yamaha integrated amp, that I am now using to power the 2.3's, is itself almost 20 years old, so there seems to be vast amounts of room for improvement. I'll keep updating as things progress.
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  • pitdogg2
    pitdogg2 Posts: 25,381
    Yea do all tweeters doesn't make sense to just do a few and unhook the rest. It's a progressive point source so not all play at the same loudness. IIRC
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  • michaeljhsda2
    michaeljhsda2 Posts: 2,182
    Nice choice on the tube amp! The only speakers that improve by disconnecting the dimensional tweeter are the SDA 2's (maybe the older SDA 1's, not sure though) with the side by side tweeters.
    SDA SRS 2.3TL's
    Silk Audio MS-90-BT integrated tube amp
    Yaqin MS-20L integrated tube amp
    SDA 2B TL's
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  • machone
    machone Posts: 1,508
    michaeljhsda2 wrote: »
    Nice choice on the tube amp! The only speakers that improve by disconnecting the dimensional tweeter are the SDA 2's (maybe the older SDA 1's, not sure though) with the side by side tweeters.

    My SDA-1A's improved with the dimensional tweeters disconnected.

    Mojo Audio Illuminati v3>>Quantum Byte w/LMS>>Rpi/PiCoreplayer>> Starlight 7 USB >> Mojo Audio Mystique v2 SE>>ModWright SWL 9.0 SE Signature>>Hafler DH-500 Amp+ (Musical Concepts Fully Modded)>>
    SRS 2.3TL (Fully Modded)...Velodyne Optimum 8 subwoofer
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  • pitdogg2
    pitdogg2 Posts: 25,381
    michaeljhsda2 wrote: »
    Nice choice on the tube amp! The only speakers that improve by disconnecting the dimensional tweeter are the SDA 2's (maybe the older SDA 1's, not sure though) with the side by side tweeters.

    any that has dimensional tweeters yes SDA1 SDA1a
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  • dpowell
    dpowell Posts: 3,067
    I bi-amp my 2.3TL's with a Sunfire Signature Cinema Grande 400x5. It has dual outputs for each channel which give you the option of a more solid state sound from one output and a more tube sound from the other. Mine are setup with SS for Bass and the tubey goodness sound for the highs/mids. Because the amp allows you to pass the signal through from one channel to another with a simple interconnect, it makes bi-amping a breeze. The sound is phenomenal.
    ____________________________________________________________

    polkaudio Fully Modded SDA SRS 1.2TLs + Dreadnaught, LSiM706c, 4 X Polk Surrounds + 4 X ATMOS, SVS PB13 Ultra X 2, Pass Labs X1, Marantz 7704, Bob Carver Crimson Beauty 350 Tube Mono Blocks, Carver Sunfire Signature Cinema Grande 400x5, ADCOM GFA 7807, Panasonic UB420, Moon 380D DAC, EPSON Pro Cinema 6050
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  • Viking64
    Viking64 Posts: 7,032
    dpowell wrote: »
    I bi-amp my 2.3TL's with a Sunfire Signature Cinema Grande 400x5. It has dual outputs for each channel which give you the option of a more solid state sound from one output and a more tube sound from the other. Mine are setup with SS for Bass and the tubey goodness sound for the highs/mids. Because the amp allows you to pass the signal through from one channel to another with a simple interconnect, it makes bi-amping a breeze. The sound is phenomenal.

    I see you have "Modded SDA SRS 2.3TL's". What have you done? So far, I have ordered updated crossovers and six RDO tweeters.
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  • dpowell
    dpowell Posts: 3,067
    Gimpod XO boards with Sonicaps and Mills
    Larry's rings
    Dynamat all drivers
    VR3 Mods binding post plate/connectors and Speakon connector for dreadnaught
    1000k dreadnaught with larry's custom box
    RDO-198 tweeters

    Last thing I need to do is replace the SDA inductors
    ____________________________________________________________

    polkaudio Fully Modded SDA SRS 1.2TLs + Dreadnaught, LSiM706c, 4 X Polk Surrounds + 4 X ATMOS, SVS PB13 Ultra X 2, Pass Labs X1, Marantz 7704, Bob Carver Crimson Beauty 350 Tube Mono Blocks, Carver Sunfire Signature Cinema Grande 400x5, ADCOM GFA 7807, Panasonic UB420, Moon 380D DAC, EPSON Pro Cinema 6050
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  • Viking64
    Viking64 Posts: 7,032
    Nice! How much Dynamat was needed to do all 12 drivers? Did you do the sub bass radiators also?
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  • dpowell
    dpowell Posts: 3,067
    Seems to me it took 2 or 3 sheets of it. I did the bass radiators. With all the mods complete, the 2.3TL's are a phenomenal sounding speaker.
    ____________________________________________________________

    polkaudio Fully Modded SDA SRS 1.2TLs + Dreadnaught, LSiM706c, 4 X Polk Surrounds + 4 X ATMOS, SVS PB13 Ultra X 2, Pass Labs X1, Marantz 7704, Bob Carver Crimson Beauty 350 Tube Mono Blocks, Carver Sunfire Signature Cinema Grande 400x5, ADCOM GFA 7807, Panasonic UB420, Moon 380D DAC, EPSON Pro Cinema 6050
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  • dkfreebird
    dkfreebird Posts: 1,186
    The wedge pack on eBay is more than enough.It is 4 square feet and you should have some left over. The Passive radiators should be done too and if you want to go a step further you can put black hole 5 behind the drivers.
    2 Channel
    Polk 1.2tl's Modded with dreadnought
    Musical Fidelity M6Si
    North Star Intenso Dac
    Auralic Aries Mini Streamer
    Oppo 103
    Pangea PC
    Wireworld Equinox 7 interconnects
    Wireworld Equinox 7 Speaker Cables and Jumpers

    Backups 2.3tl, Crs+ pin/blade with stands.Monitor 5 peerless,Monitor 4 peerless,Polk R200,McCormack Dna 0.5 Deluxe McCormack Dna 1,Dared Sl 2000A,Dayens Ampino Rogue Magnum 66 pre
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  • Viking64
    Viking64 Posts: 7,032
    dpowell wrote: »
    Seems to me it took 2 or 3 sheets of it. I did the bass radiators. With all the mods complete, the 2.3TL's are a phenomenal sounding speaker.

    Thank you. I am getting excited. After owning these for almost 26 years, it is certainly due. :D My new Silk Audio tube amp is "out for delivery" via FedEx today.
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  • Viking64
    Viking64 Posts: 7,032
    dkfreebird wrote: »
    The wedge pack on eBay is more than enough.It is 4 square feet and you should have some left over. The Passive radiators should be done too and if you want to go a step further you can put black hole 5 behind the drivers.

    Thank you! I found a thread on the "Black Hole 5". The pictures aren't visible, though. HAHAHA
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  • dkfreebird
    dkfreebird Posts: 1,186
    http://forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/163982/money-well-spent#latest

    This is a link when I did mine.The pics should show you where to put it.
    2 Channel
    Polk 1.2tl's Modded with dreadnought
    Musical Fidelity M6Si
    North Star Intenso Dac
    Auralic Aries Mini Streamer
    Oppo 103
    Pangea PC
    Wireworld Equinox 7 interconnects
    Wireworld Equinox 7 Speaker Cables and Jumpers

    Backups 2.3tl, Crs+ pin/blade with stands.Monitor 5 peerless,Monitor 4 peerless,Polk R200,McCormack Dna 0.5 Deluxe McCormack Dna 1,Dared Sl 2000A,Dayens Ampino Rogue Magnum 66 pre
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  • Viking64
    Viking64 Posts: 7,032
    dkfreebird wrote: »
    http://forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/163982/money-well-spent#latest

    This is a link when I did mine.The pics should show you where to put it.

    Thank you! I spy with my little eye an Adcom power amp. HAHAHAHA Are your 2.3's "walnut"? My cardboard freight boxes have the check boxes on them for both "oak" and "walnut", but I have only seen the oak, which is what I have, obviously. :P
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  • dkfreebird
    dkfreebird Posts: 1,186
    Yes, I have all 3 of the tl models in walnut.The Adcom in the pic is long gone and am running a McCormack amp now. You will be in for a treat once you upgrade them, but they are great in stock form too.
    2 Channel
    Polk 1.2tl's Modded with dreadnought
    Musical Fidelity M6Si
    North Star Intenso Dac
    Auralic Aries Mini Streamer
    Oppo 103
    Pangea PC
    Wireworld Equinox 7 interconnects
    Wireworld Equinox 7 Speaker Cables and Jumpers

    Backups 2.3tl, Crs+ pin/blade with stands.Monitor 5 peerless,Monitor 4 peerless,Polk R200,McCormack Dna 0.5 Deluxe McCormack Dna 1,Dared Sl 2000A,Dayens Ampino Rogue Magnum 66 pre
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