Turn my AVR into Preamp?

Kingkwas
Kingkwas Posts: 92
edited August 2017 in Electronics
Shortly after buying my Marantz AVR I learned abt the superiority of using an amp.

Can I just turn my Marantz SR5011 into a Preamp? Is there a drastic benefit to an actual Preamp?
AVR: Marantz SR 5011
L/ R: Polk Audio 703 LSiM (Bi Amp'd)
C: Polk Audio 255c - LS
R: Def Tech
Sub: PSW 505 (12 inch)
DVD: Oppo UDP 203
TV: 2016 Sony XBR 75X850D

Comments

  • BlueFox
    BlueFox Posts: 15,251
    If it has preamp outputs then it can be used as a pre. Most likely a dedicated HT processor (pre) will be better than an AVR used as a pre. It was for me.
    Lumin X1 file player, Westminster Labs interconnect cable
    Sony XA-5400ES SACD; Pass XP-22 pre; X600.5 amps
    Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers; SPOD spikes

    Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR on source, Denali 2000 (2) on amps
    Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
    Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables

    Mapleshade Samson V.3 four shelf solid maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
    Three 20 amp circuits.
  • dolbyd
    dolbyd Posts: 430
    Your Marantz has full pre outs on it. I would add an amp for sure.
    The Marantz is a good unit and will be a great Pre/Pro for you.
    I have a 5010 in the MB and I run a Adcom 7500 with it.
    Your LsiMs will be a lot happier.

    Main room- RTiA9 x4, CSiA6, in ceiling Atmos RT-70 x4, SVS PC 4000 x2, Marantz 8805A, OPPO 203, Emotiva DR3 G3, Emotiva XPA-2 G3, Emotiva XPA-5 G3, Emotiva X300, Sony 75" 940E, Panasonic Plasma VT50, PS Audio Power Port X2, PS Audio AC-5 x8, AQ Rocket 33 Biwire speaker cables, AQ King Cobra XLR IC, Furman PFi20 W/Cullen cable, SoildSteel S4-4 rack, Gik room treatments

    Office- Legend L600, in ceiling Polk RC80i, Marantz 7704, OPPO 203, Pioneer Elite PDF-59 CD, PSA Stellar 300, Sony 55" 800B, Gik room treatment

    Master BR- Signature ES60, Signature S35 Center, Signature S15 Dolby Height, LSI700 in ceiling, SVS-SB4000, Marantz 5012, Emotiva XPA5 G2, OPPO 203, Pioneer DVL-919 Laser Disc, Sony 55" OLED

    Patio- SDI Atrium8 x3, Emotiva A-100 amps x3
  • rooftop59
    rooftop59 Posts: 7,952
    I'll be honest...I went from a marantz nr1403 with an external amp for the mains to a Rotel RSP-1069 pre/pro (no built in amp) and then back to a marantz sr5007. The system is for netflix tv and music, and if anything the marantz sounds slightly better all around. The two channel music might have been slightly smoother on the rotel, maybe, but tv/movies sound sooo much better on the marantz. So I would just add an amp for the 703s and call it.

    FYI I finally upgrade to a rotel rb-993 200 wpc amp for the LSiM fronts, and that's when those 703s just really woke up. So I would recommend either a rotel rb-991 (the two channel version) or newer equivalent, or a parasound hca 1200 or 1500. Your ears will thank you...
    Living Room 2.2: Usher BE-718 "tiny dancers"; Dual DIY Dayton audio RSS210HF-4 Subs with Dayton SPA-250 amps; Arcam SA30; Musical Fidelity A308; Sony UBP-x1000es; Squeezebox Touch with Bolder Power Supply
    Game Room 5.1.4:
    Denon AVR-X4200w; Sony UBP-x700; Definitive Technology Power Monitor 900 mains, CLR-3000 center, StudioMonitor 350 surrounds, ProMonitor 800 atmos x4; Sub - Monoprice Monolith 15in THX Ultra

    Bedroom 2.1
    Cambridge Azur 551r; Polk RT25i; ACI Titan Subwoofer
  • I'm not sold on a separate pre. I get the amp part. More power is better.

    How is the pre/ processor better than just making my AVR the pre/pro?

    Thx
    AVR: Marantz SR 5011
    L/ R: Polk Audio 703 LSiM (Bi Amp'd)
    C: Polk Audio 255c - LS
    R: Def Tech
    Sub: PSW 505 (12 inch)
    DVD: Oppo UDP 203
    TV: 2016 Sony XBR 75X850D
  • BlueFox
    BlueFox Posts: 15,251
    Good answer, pitdogg2.
    Lumin X1 file player, Westminster Labs interconnect cable
    Sony XA-5400ES SACD; Pass XP-22 pre; X600.5 amps
    Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers; SPOD spikes

    Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR on source, Denali 2000 (2) on amps
    Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
    Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables

    Mapleshade Samson V.3 four shelf solid maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
    Three 20 amp circuits.
  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 32,902
    The rabbit hole awaits young Skywalker. lol
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    Grant Fidelity tube dac
    B&k 1420
    lsi 9's
  • I used to have a carver pre and when it puked (way too expensive to repair) I started using an older Integra dtr-7.1AVR receiver as a pre. I do think that the stand alone pre was a much better set up quality wise than the AVR. There are modern conveniences on the AVR that are kinda cool like zone 2 for the deck speakers outside but I will eventually change back to a stand alone pre when the wallet allows.
  • Many of the flagship AVR do everything in a very impressive fashion.
  • delkal
    delkal Posts: 764
    So what has more of an effect on the overall sound of your system? The amp or preamp.

    I know most here will say you need to spend big bucks on both........But pick one.
  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 32,902
    delkal wrote: »
    So what has more of an effect on the overall sound of your system? The amp or preamp.

    I know most here will say you need to spend big bucks on both........But pick one.
    No, most won't say you need to spend big bucks, just the opposite actually. My bet, the pre will make a bigger impact on the overall sound. Preferably a tubed pre.
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    Grant Fidelity tube dac
    B&k 1420
    lsi 9's
  • Viking64
    Viking64 Posts: 6,646
    I turned my AVR into a doorstop by hooking my Blu-Ray and SACD directly to my power amp. The sonic improvement was substantial.
  • gp4jesus
    gp4jesus Posts: 1,969
    pitdogg2 wrote: »
    Kingkwas wrote: »
    I'm not sold on a separate pre. I get the amp part. More power is better.

    How is the pre/ processor better than just making my AVR the pre/pro?

    Thx

    An AVR is like a jack if all trades and a master of none.

    A dedicated pre is just that dedicated to be a master of that function. Shorter signal paths, better implementation of the chips used for their purpose. Better components all around.

    An AVR in most cases has a price point it must meet. You take a 1500.00 pre-amp and a 1500.00 AVR that pre-amp will run circles around that AVR. It will also have a much lower noise floor than the AVR.

    Let me add some uber upper AVR's 5-6g range can be a whole different beast, but on a whole a dedicated pre-amp will out perform in most cases.
    @Kingkwas: one step at a time.

    Samsung 60" UN60ES6100 LED Outlaw Audio 976 Pre/Pro Samsung BDP, Amazon Firestick, Phillips CD Changer Canare 14 ga - LCR tweeters inside*; Ctr Ch outside BJC 10 ga - LCR mids, inside* & out 8 ga Powerline: LR woofers, inside* & out *soldered LR: Tri-amped RTi A7 w/Rotels. Woofers - 980BX; Tweets & “Plugged*” Mids - 981, connected w/MP Premiere ICs Ctr Ch: Rotel RB981 -> Bi-amped CSi A6 Surrounds: Premiere ICs ->Rotel 981 -> AR 12 ga -> RTi A3. 5 Subs: Sunfire True SW Signature -> LFE & Ctr Ch; 4 Audio Pro Evidence @ the “Corners”. Power Conditioning & Distribution: 4 dedicated 20A feeds; APC H15; 5 Furman Miniport 20s *Xschop's handy work
  • gp4jesus
    gp4jesus Posts: 1,969
    Viking64 wrote: »
    I turned my AVR into a doorstop by hooking my Blu-Ray and SACD directly to my power amp. The sonic improvement was substantial.
    simpler, more direct signal path is almost, if not always, better.
    Samsung 60" UN60ES6100 LED Outlaw Audio 976 Pre/Pro Samsung BDP, Amazon Firestick, Phillips CD Changer Canare 14 ga - LCR tweeters inside*; Ctr Ch outside BJC 10 ga - LCR mids, inside* & out 8 ga Powerline: LR woofers, inside* & out *soldered LR: Tri-amped RTi A7 w/Rotels. Woofers - 980BX; Tweets & “Plugged*” Mids - 981, connected w/MP Premiere ICs Ctr Ch: Rotel RB981 -> Bi-amped CSi A6 Surrounds: Premiere ICs ->Rotel 981 -> AR 12 ga -> RTi A3. 5 Subs: Sunfire True SW Signature -> LFE & Ctr Ch; 4 Audio Pro Evidence @ the “Corners”. Power Conditioning & Distribution: 4 dedicated 20A feeds; APC H15; 5 Furman Miniport 20s *Xschop's handy work
  • Viking64
    Viking64 Posts: 6,646
    edited November 2017
    gp4jesus wrote: »
    simpler, more direct signal path is almost, if not always, better.
    Yes. My 1999 flagship Yamaha home theater integrated amp was only seeing 44.1 KHz/16-bit from my Blu-ray via an optical cable. The internal DAC's of the player produce 192Khz/32-bit. I've read where some people say most people wouldn't notice a difference between the two, but I did an A/B test using both routes and switched between inputs on my amp, and it was a major improvement.
  • gp4jesus
    gp4jesus Posts: 1,969
    Viking64 wrote: »
    gp4jesus wrote: »
    simpler, more direct signal path is almost, if not always, better.
    Yes. My 1999 flagship Yamaha home theater integrated amp was only seeing 44.1 KHz/16-bit from my Blu-ray via an optical cable. The internal DAC's of the player produce 192Khz/32-bit. I've read where some people say most people wouldn't notice a difference between the two, but I did an A/B test using both routes and switched between inputs on my amp, and it was a major improvement.
    please accept my upfront apology for sounding snobby. I would not know if a pre/pro* IS an upgrade from using an AVR as the same* - I've always had pre/pros; never had an AVR nor used same as a pre/pro though it makes sense.

    Good listening all, Tony

    Samsung 60" UN60ES6100 LED Outlaw Audio 976 Pre/Pro Samsung BDP, Amazon Firestick, Phillips CD Changer Canare 14 ga - LCR tweeters inside*; Ctr Ch outside BJC 10 ga - LCR mids, inside* & out 8 ga Powerline: LR woofers, inside* & out *soldered LR: Tri-amped RTi A7 w/Rotels. Woofers - 980BX; Tweets & “Plugged*” Mids - 981, connected w/MP Premiere ICs Ctr Ch: Rotel RB981 -> Bi-amped CSi A6 Surrounds: Premiere ICs ->Rotel 981 -> AR 12 ga -> RTi A3. 5 Subs: Sunfire True SW Signature -> LFE & Ctr Ch; 4 Audio Pro Evidence @ the “Corners”. Power Conditioning & Distribution: 4 dedicated 20A feeds; APC H15; 5 Furman Miniport 20s *Xschop's handy work
  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 32,902
    Viking64 wrote: »
    gp4jesus wrote: »
    simpler, more direct signal path is almost, if not always, better.
    Yes. My 1999 flagship Yamaha home theater integrated amp was only seeing 44.1 KHz/16-bit from my Blu-ray via an optical cable. The internal DAC's of the player produce 192Khz/32-bit. I've read where some people say most people wouldn't notice a difference between the two, but I did an A/B test using both routes and switched between inputs on my amp, and it was a major improvement.

    Most people don't know what they are listening for, which is why some can't hear a difference. How do you control volume with the BR and SACD connected to an amp ? Are you using an integrated ?
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    Grant Fidelity tube dac
    B&k 1420
    lsi 9's
  • Viking64
    Viking64 Posts: 6,646
    Technically, I would say it was an integrated. It's a power amp that has a volume control and 4 inputs.

    evkmb0f2fz0b.jpg
  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 32,902
    Gotcha.....looks sweet too.
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    Grant Fidelity tube dac
    B&k 1420
    lsi 9's
  • Upstatemax
    Upstatemax Posts: 2,623
    Viking64 wrote: »
    I turned my AVR into a doorstop by hooking my Blu-Ray and SACD directly to my power amp. The sonic improvement was substantial.

    This is exactly why I no longer have a Parasound P5 in my 2ch system.

    It had to go back for service and while it was out, I just hooked my Oppo right up my amp. After some extended listening sessions, I made the tough decision to put the P5 up for sale.
  • Tony M
    Tony M Posts: 11,009
    Wow !! What a BEAUTIFUL work of Audio ART !!
    That Amp is one I've never seen before.

    NICE !
    Most people just listen to music and watch movies. I EXPERIENCE them.
  • Viking64
    Viking64 Posts: 6,646
    Thank you! I have been very happy with it. The build quality is excellent. Even the remote is aluminum. HAHAHA It produces more volume than an old metalhead like me can tolerate, and the sound it makes with my 2.3TL's is gorgeous, and I have yet to add my V3 crossovers, 198's, and dreadnaught into the mix.