Turn my AVR into Preamp?

KingkwasKingkwas Posts: 72
edited August 2017 in Electronics
Shortly after buying my Marantz AVR I learned abt the superiority of using an amp.

Can I just turn my Marantz SR5011 into a Preamp? Is there a drastic benefit to an actual Preamp?
AVR: Marantz SR 5011
L/ R: Polk Audio 703 LSiM (Bi Amp'd)
C: Polk Audio 255c - LS
R: Def Tech
Sub: PSW 505 (12 inch)
DVD: Oppo UDP 203
TV: 2016 Sony XBR 75X850D

Comments

  • BlueFoxBlueFox Posts: 10,236
    If it has preamp outputs then it can be used as a pre. Most likely a dedicated HT processor (pre) will be better than an AVR used as a pre. It was for me.
    Bud - Silicon Valley

    Lumin S1
    Sony XA-5400ES SACD
    Pass XP-22 pre, X600.5 amps
    Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers, SPOD spikes

    Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR on source, Denali 2000 (2) on amps
    Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
    Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables

    Mapleshade Samson V.3 four shelf solid maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
    Three 20 amp circuits.
  • dolbyddolbyd Posts: 274
    Your Marantz has full pre outs on it. I would add an amp for sure.
    The Marantz is a good unit and will be a great Pre/Pro for you.
    I have a 5010 in the MB and I run a Adcom 7500 with it.
    Your LsiMs will be a lot happier.

    Main room- RTiA9 x4, CSiA6, in ceiling Atmos RT-70 x4, SVS PC 4000 x2, Marantz 7704, OPPO 203, Emotiva XPA-5 Gen2, Emotiva X-500,X-150, Sony 75" 940E, Panasonic Plasma VT50,PS Audio Power Port X2, Perfect Wave AC-5 x4, Furman PFi20

    Office- Infinity Kappa 600, Kappa Center, in ceiling Polk RC80i, SVS PC 2000, Marantz 5010, OPPO 203, Emotiva X300, Sony 48"

    Master BR- LSi7, LSiC, LSI700 in ceiling, SVS-PC 2000, Marantz SR5012, Adcom 7500, OPPO 203, Pioneer DVL-919 Laser Disc, Sony 55" 800B

    Workout room- RT2000P, CS1000P, Pioneer Elite SC81, OPPO 103, Panasonic Plasma VT 42"

    Patio- SDI Atrium8 x3, Emotiva A-100 amps x3

    Storage room at this time- LS90, RT16, CS350LS
  • rooftop59rooftop59 Posts: 4,760
    I'll be honest...I went from a marantz nr1403 with an external amp for the mains to a Rotel RSP-1069 pre/pro (no built in amp) and then back to a marantz sr5007. The system is for netflix tv and music, and if anything the marantz sounds slightly better all around. The two channel music might have been slightly smoother on the rotel, maybe, but tv/movies sound sooo much better on the marantz. So I would just add an amp for the 703s and call it.

    FYI I finally upgrade to a rotel rb-993 200 wpc amp for the LSiM fronts, and that's when those 703s just really woke up. So I would recommend either a rotel rb-991 (the two channel version) or newer equivalent, or a parasound hca 1200 or 1500. Your ears will thank you...
    HT Rig:
    Denon AVR-X4200w; Peachtree Audio Nova Integrated; Bryson BPD-1; Mains: Dynaudio Emit 10 + MartinLogan Dynamo (original) sub; Center - Polk cs400i; Heights, Center Surround - Klipsch KHC - 6 In-Ceiling; Surrounds - Monoprice in-ceiling; Sub - SVS PB10-ISD; LG UP870 4K BDP

    Master Bedroom
    Marantz SR-5007; Peachtree Audio NovaPre; Audiosource Amp Two, PSB Imagine B, Boston VR-10 center, NHT Super One CI surrounds, ACI Titan subwoofer, Squeezebox Touch
  • I'm not sold on a separate pre. I get the amp part. More power is better.

    How is the pre/ processor better than just making my AVR the pre/pro?

    Thx
    AVR: Marantz SR 5011
    L/ R: Polk Audio 703 LSiM (Bi Amp'd)
    C: Polk Audio 255c - LS
    R: Def Tech
    Sub: PSW 505 (12 inch)
    DVD: Oppo UDP 203
    TV: 2016 Sony XBR 75X850D
  • BlueFoxBlueFox Posts: 10,236
    Good answer, pitdogg2.
    Bud - Silicon Valley

    Lumin S1
    Sony XA-5400ES SACD
    Pass XP-22 pre, X600.5 amps
    Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers, SPOD spikes

    Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR on source, Denali 2000 (2) on amps
    Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
    Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables

    Mapleshade Samson V.3 four shelf solid maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
    Three 20 amp circuits.
  • tonybtonyb Posts: 30,169
    The rabbit hole awaits young Skywalker. lol
    HT SYSTEM-2 channel
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Dynaudio Audience 72
    Polk FX500 surrounds
    Cary xciter dac
    Cullen modded Sonos
    Joule la-100 pre
    B&k Ref 4420 amp

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Analysis plus crystal oval ic's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    B&k 1430
    Tad 803 speakers
  • I used to have a carver pre and when it puked (way too expensive to repair) I started using an older Integra dtr-7.1AVR receiver as a pre. I do think that the stand alone pre was a much better set up quality wise than the AVR. There are modern conveniences on the AVR that are kinda cool like zone 2 for the deck speakers outside but I will eventually change back to a stand alone pre when the wallet allows.
  • Many of the flagship AVR do everything in a very impressive fashion.
  • delkaldelkal Posts: 345
    So what has more of an effect on the overall sound of your system? The amp or preamp.

    I know most here will say you need to spend big bucks on both........But pick one.
  • tonybtonyb Posts: 30,169
    delkal wrote: »
    So what has more of an effect on the overall sound of your system? The amp or preamp.

    I know most here will say you need to spend big bucks on both........But pick one.
    No, most won't say you need to spend big bucks, just the opposite actually. My bet, the pre will make a bigger impact on the overall sound. Preferably a tubed pre.
    HT SYSTEM-2 channel
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Dynaudio Audience 72
    Polk FX500 surrounds
    Cary xciter dac
    Cullen modded Sonos
    Joule la-100 pre
    B&k Ref 4420 amp

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Analysis plus crystal oval ic's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    B&k 1430
    Tad 803 speakers
  • Viking64Viking64 Posts: 3,605
    I turned my AVR into a doorstop by hooking my Blu-Ray and SACD directly to my power amp. The sonic improvement was substantial.
  • gp4jesusgp4jesus Posts: 1,194
    pitdogg2 wrote: »
    Kingkwas wrote: »
    I'm not sold on a separate pre. I get the amp part. More power is better.

    How is the pre/ processor better than just making my AVR the pre/pro?

    Thx

    An AVR is like a jack if all trades and a master of none.

    A dedicated pre is just that dedicated to be a master of that function. Shorter signal paths, better implementation of the chips used for their purpose. Better components all around.

    An AVR in most cases has a price point it must meet. You take a 1500.00 pre-amp and a 1500.00 AVR that pre-amp will run circles around that AVR. It will also have a much lower noise floor than the AVR.

    Let me add some uber upper AVR's 5-6g range can be a whole different beast, but on a whole a dedicated pre-amp will out perform in most cases.
    @Kingkwas: one step at a time.

    Samsung 60" UN60ES6100 LED
    Outlaw Audio 975 Pre/Pro
    Samsung BDP, DirecTV Rcvr, Xbox 360, Dennon LDP, Phillips CD chgr

    Canare 14 ga - LCR tweeters inside; CC outside
    BJC 10 ga - LCR mids, inside & out
    8 ga Powerline - LR woofers, inside & out

    LR: tri-amped RTi A7. Woofers, Rotel 98X amp; M & T, P'sound HCA-1000
    CC: Rotel RB985 -> tri-amped CSi A6
    5 Audio Pro Subs: 1 B1.39: 1 Evidence at each corner
    Surrounds: Hafler XL280 -> AR 12 ga -> RTi A3*
    Power Conditioning & Distribution:
    3 dedicated 20A feeds; APC H15; 4 Furman Miniport 20s
    *Bi-amped by years end
  • gp4jesusgp4jesus Posts: 1,194
    Viking64 wrote: »
    I turned my AVR into a doorstop by hooking my Blu-Ray and SACD directly to my power amp. The sonic improvement was substantial.
    simpler, more direct signal path is almost, if not always, better.
    Samsung 60" UN60ES6100 LED
    Outlaw Audio 975 Pre/Pro
    Samsung BDP, DirecTV Rcvr, Xbox 360, Dennon LDP, Phillips CD chgr

    Canare 14 ga - LCR tweeters inside; CC outside
    BJC 10 ga - LCR mids, inside & out
    8 ga Powerline - LR woofers, inside & out

    LR: tri-amped RTi A7. Woofers, Rotel 98X amp; M & T, P'sound HCA-1000
    CC: Rotel RB985 -> tri-amped CSi A6
    5 Audio Pro Subs: 1 B1.39: 1 Evidence at each corner
    Surrounds: Hafler XL280 -> AR 12 ga -> RTi A3*
    Power Conditioning & Distribution:
    3 dedicated 20A feeds; APC H15; 4 Furman Miniport 20s
    *Bi-amped by years end
  • Viking64Viking64 Posts: 3,605
    edited November 2017
    gp4jesus wrote: »
    simpler, more direct signal path is almost, if not always, better.
    Yes. My 1999 flagship Yamaha home theater integrated amp was only seeing 44.1 KHz/16-bit from my Blu-ray via an optical cable. The internal DAC's of the player produce 192Khz/32-bit. I've read where some people say most people wouldn't notice a difference between the two, but I did an A/B test using both routes and switched between inputs on my amp, and it was a major improvement.
  • gp4jesusgp4jesus Posts: 1,194
    Viking64 wrote: »
    gp4jesus wrote: »
    simpler, more direct signal path is almost, if not always, better.
    Yes. My 1999 flagship Yamaha home theater integrated amp was only seeing 44.1 KHz/16-bit from my Blu-ray via an optical cable. The internal DAC's of the player produce 192Khz/32-bit. I've read where some people say most people wouldn't notice a difference between the two, but I did an A/B test using both routes and switched between inputs on my amp, and it was a major improvement.
    please accept my upfront apology for sounding snobby. I would not know if a pre/pro* IS an upgrade from using an AVR as the same* - I've always had pre/pros; never had an AVR nor used same as a pre/pro though it makes sense.

    Good listening all, Tony

    Samsung 60" UN60ES6100 LED
    Outlaw Audio 975 Pre/Pro
    Samsung BDP, DirecTV Rcvr, Xbox 360, Dennon LDP, Phillips CD chgr

    Canare 14 ga - LCR tweeters inside; CC outside
    BJC 10 ga - LCR mids, inside & out
    8 ga Powerline - LR woofers, inside & out

    LR: tri-amped RTi A7. Woofers, Rotel 98X amp; M & T, P'sound HCA-1000
    CC: Rotel RB985 -> tri-amped CSi A6
    5 Audio Pro Subs: 1 B1.39: 1 Evidence at each corner
    Surrounds: Hafler XL280 -> AR 12 ga -> RTi A3*
    Power Conditioning & Distribution:
    3 dedicated 20A feeds; APC H15; 4 Furman Miniport 20s
    *Bi-amped by years end
  • tonybtonyb Posts: 30,169
    Viking64 wrote: »
    gp4jesus wrote: »
    simpler, more direct signal path is almost, if not always, better.
    Yes. My 1999 flagship Yamaha home theater integrated amp was only seeing 44.1 KHz/16-bit from my Blu-ray via an optical cable. The internal DAC's of the player produce 192Khz/32-bit. I've read where some people say most people wouldn't notice a difference between the two, but I did an A/B test using both routes and switched between inputs on my amp, and it was a major improvement.

    Most people don't know what they are listening for, which is why some can't hear a difference. How do you control volume with the BR and SACD connected to an amp ? Are you using an integrated ?
    HT SYSTEM-2 channel
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Dynaudio Audience 72
    Polk FX500 surrounds
    Cary xciter dac
    Cullen modded Sonos
    Joule la-100 pre
    B&k Ref 4420 amp

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Analysis plus crystal oval ic's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    B&k 1430
    Tad 803 speakers
  • Viking64Viking64 Posts: 3,605
    Technically, I would say it was an integrated. It's a power amp that has a volume control and 4 inputs.

    evkmb0f2fz0b.jpg
  • tonybtonyb Posts: 30,169
    Gotcha.....looks sweet too.
    HT SYSTEM-2 channel
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Dynaudio Audience 72
    Polk FX500 surrounds
    Cary xciter dac
    Cullen modded Sonos
    Joule la-100 pre
    B&k Ref 4420 amp

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Analysis plus crystal oval ic's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    B&k 1430
    Tad 803 speakers
  • UpstatemaxUpstatemax Posts: 2,232
    Viking64 wrote: »
    I turned my AVR into a doorstop by hooking my Blu-Ray and SACD directly to my power amp. The sonic improvement was substantial.

    This is exactly why I no longer have a Parasound P5 in my 2ch system.

    It had to go back for service and while it was out, I just hooked my Oppo right up my amp. After some extended listening sessions, I made the tough decision to put the P5 up for sale.
    Living room:
    Samsung PN50B860 50" Plasma : XBOX One : Roku Ultra : Oppo UDP-203 : Pioneer Elite SC-87 : APC H15 : Focal 806V mains : Focal 806V Surrounds : SVS SB2000 : SVS SB12-NSD

    2Ch:
    Sonus Faber Venere S : Parasound HCA 1500A : Oppo UDP-205 : Furman Elite 15 DM i : Sony XBR 55X810C Monitor :
  • Tony MTony M Posts: 6,526
    Wow !! What a BEAUTIFUL work of Audio ART !!
    That Amp is one I've never seen before.

    NICE !
    Most people just listen to music and watch movies. I EXPERIENCE them.
  • Viking64Viking64 Posts: 3,605
    Thank you! I have been very happy with it. The build quality is excellent. Even the remote is aluminum. HAHAHA It produces more volume than an old metalhead like me can tolerate, and the sound it makes with my 2.3TL's is gorgeous, and I have yet to add my V3 crossovers, 198's, and dreadnaught into the mix.
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