Parasound 2250 v2 or Adcom GFA-555 II Carver TFM-45

CH46ECH46E Posts: 1,207
edited July 2017 in 2 Channel Audio
I could sell the parasound and buy a
Adcom 555 and have money left over to recap my 12b. The Parasound now runs my rta12b and my sda srs 2 . Im not super thrilled with the sound from the Parasound. (Just me)

The Parasound is on Ebay now. And there are a lot of Adcom 555 mkiis for sale.

Ive seen a few Carver TFM-45 and the M4.0T. The6 cost more and would not leave me as much to spend on the caps for the rta12b.

I prefer a dark /warmer sounding amp. I dont get that from the parasound.

Does anyone have experiance with them?
I do 50/50 HT and music in 2.0.
Thank

Parasound 2250 v2 or Adcom GFA-555 II Carver TFM-45 30 votes

Parasound 2250 v.2
56%
vmaxerdragon1952Willowgeorge danielkevhed72UpstatemaxerniejadeEndersShadowsgtmick63vcwatkinschumlieZLTFUL[Deleted User]D'privedafterburntmlistens03tjw141 17 votes
Adcom GFA-555 mk II
10%
stretchlLegenderNoavgjoe 3 votes
Carver TFM-45 Silver Seven Transfer functuoned
33%
MrBuhlhonestaquarianmotorstereotreitz3nooshinjohnpitdogg2audiobillyRobbyKYkwarren122audioluvr 10 votes
«1

Comments

  • F1nutF1nut Posts: 42,687
    Cool, a poll.

    I vote none of the above.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


    President of Club Polk

  • kharp1kharp1 Posts: 3,345
    I'm plus one with F1
    Main System:
    Joule-Electra LA 100 MKIII Upgraded by Rich Brkich Pre
    Butler Audio TBD 2250 Amp
    PS Audio DirectStream DAC and MemoryPlayer Transport
    LSA-1 Statement
    SVS SB4000 & SB2000
    Wireworld Equinox 7 bi-wire, Wireworld Silver Eclipse 7 IC

    Secondary Rig:
    Parasound P5, Audio Electronics by Cary Constellation
    Marsh a200s, Audio Elecrtonics by Cary Hercules
    Pioneer Elite DV-45a, Denon DVD-2910
    Klipsch Epic CF-1, Vandersteen 3CE sig
    Analysus Plus Oval

    Backup Gear:
    Pass Labs Aleph 30, McCormack DNA-125, Parasound A21
    Marantz SA-14S1
    Usher CP-6311/Tyler Acoustics Taylo Reference Monitor, LSA-1
  • lightman1lightman1 Posts: 10,455
    The memes say so
  • CH46ECH46E Posts: 1,207
    F1nut wrote: »
    Cool, a poll.

    I vote none of the above.

    Well my budget for a new apm is $700. While you said non of then, do you have any recomdatio s for that price range?


    Any are Polls frowned upon here for some reason?
  • CH46ECH46E Posts: 1,207
    Well, i leaning towards tb Adcom.
  • There are some nice amps for sale right here if you can expand your budget.
    Studio 2 equipment;
    Yamaha a-s2100 Amp, CD-2100 CD player, T-S500 tuner
    Loudspeakers: Harbeth p3esr, Polk RT7
    Cables: Aural Harmony Sonnet Interconnect II, WireWorld Equinox 7 speaker,
    Black Cat silverstar 75 ohm digital, Signal Digital Power Cord, PS Audio Perfect Wave AC-3,
    Pangea SE14, Voltz supplied interconnects
    Optional: Arcam DV88 DVD/CD (HDCD) player, Polk SDS-400 speakers
  • pitdogg2pitdogg2 Posts: 14,313
    Carver TFM-45 Silver Seven Transfer functuoned
    I own a TFM45. Unless the amp you're looking at has been recapped and completely gone through in the last couple of years you can add 500.00 to what ever price you're paying for it. This is fact and not just "well it should be done" . The icing on the cake is IF someone has been inside and did work it could be more. Many get inside and cause more trouble than its worth.
  • motorhead43026motorhead43026 Posts: 3,287
    I like Parasound but I do not like the sound of the Classic line. To me it is to sterile and on the bright side. Never was an Adcom fan so I will leave it @ that. Dogg gave you the best advice on the TFM45.

    The HCA series of Parasound are affordable and very good @ what they do. Although these are starting to get long in the tooth age wise, recapping won't break the bank when the time comes. In fact I have a HCA-1500 that still runs as new and is all original.

    Or just save up your money and move up the chain. It will be much cheaper in the long run.
    2 channel: Anthem 225 Integrated amp; Parasound Ztuner; TechnicsTT SL1350; Vincent PHO-8 phono pre; Marantz CD6005 spinner; Polk SDA2BTL's; Cables ZU Mission IC's, SC and power cords, all into a PS Audio Dectet Power center.

    All TV's sound enhanced by Polk Magnfi Mini's.

    Other; S60'S, M10 series II, M7C's, Hafler XL600 amp, RB-980BX, Parasound HCA-1500 amp , P5 preamp, all in storage. All speakers have had crossover rebuilds, resulting in a small fortune invested in Sonicaps, and tweeter upgrades.

    Political memes posted as fact and accepted as fact, are sign language of the ignorant, for the ignorant

    tonyb said " but even socialists can do a good thing here and there

    Social media makes dumb people dumber and smart people dumb then dumber.
  • treitz3treitz3 Posts: 13,045
    Carver TFM-45 Silver Seven Transfer functuoned
    The Carver M4.0t is reputed as one of the best sounding amps within the lineup of standard Carver amps and I personally prefer the M4.0t to the TFM-45, even though the TFM-45 was emulated to sound like the famed Silver Seven tube amps. The M4.0t simply sounds better to these ears and presents a well balanced, pleasant to the ears sonic signature. Adcom amps are not what you would consider warm (read bright) and you already stated that you do not prefer the sound of the Parasound amp you have.

    Out of the choices you presented? I would choose the Carver M4.0t.

    With your price range, I would try to find a Musical Fidelity A3cr and call it a day.

    Tom
    In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence.

    The best way to enjoy digital music reproduction is to never listen to good analogue reproduction.

    ~ When the law ends, tyranny begins ~
  • motorhead43026motorhead43026 Posts: 3,287
    ^^the Carver expert.
    2 channel: Anthem 225 Integrated amp; Parasound Ztuner; TechnicsTT SL1350; Vincent PHO-8 phono pre; Marantz CD6005 spinner; Polk SDA2BTL's; Cables ZU Mission IC's, SC and power cords, all into a PS Audio Dectet Power center.

    All TV's sound enhanced by Polk Magnfi Mini's.

    Other; S60'S, M10 series II, M7C's, Hafler XL600 amp, RB-980BX, Parasound HCA-1500 amp , P5 preamp, all in storage. All speakers have had crossover rebuilds, resulting in a small fortune invested in Sonicaps, and tweeter upgrades.

    Political memes posted as fact and accepted as fact, are sign language of the ignorant, for the ignorant

    tonyb said " but even socialists can do a good thing here and there

    Social media makes dumb people dumber and smart people dumb then dumber.
  • nooshinjohnnooshinjohn Posts: 21,320
    edited July 2017
    Carver TFM-45 Silver Seven Transfer functuoned
    ^^the Carver expert.

    Agreed. Tom sleeps with a miss Sonic Holography blow up doll every night and his bed points to Lynwood Washington.... :D
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, TriangleArt Reference SE with Pass Labs Xono Phono Preamp, Walker Precision Motor Drive, ClearAudio Goldfinger Diamond v2 cartridge and Origin Conquerer Mk3c tonearm, Polk Audio "Signature" Reference Series 1.2TL with complete mods, Pass Labs X0.2 three chassis preamp, PS Audio PerfectWave DAC MkII, Pioneer Elite SC-LX701, Oppo UDP-205 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk audio AB700/800 "in-wall" surrounds.

    Saying that it's "too hard" to pursue your dreams is no different than admitting to yourself that you are too lazy to achieve them.

    “If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it.”
  • audiobillyaudiobilly Posts: 351
    Carver TFM-45 Silver Seven Transfer functuoned
    Carver
    Hard to beat for the money. Sound better than Adcom. No experience with the Parasound, maybe someday.
  • EndersShadowEndersShadow Posts: 16,828
    Parasound 2250 v.2
    To continue down the "Carver" road, you'd really need to make sure it has been, or will be recapped given its age.

    Personally I'd stick w Parasound over it, which is more of a personal preference as I've owned a fully modded M1.0t MKII, Carver AV-705x, as well as Parasound HCA-1000 and 1200ii.
    "....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963)
  • pitdogg2pitdogg2 Posts: 14,313
    Carver TFM-45 Silver Seven Transfer functuoned
    treitz3 wrote: »
    The Carver M4.0t is reputed as one of the best sounding amps within the lineup of standard Carver amps and I personally prefer the M4.0t to the TFM-45, even though the TFM-45 was emulated to sound like the famed Silver Seven tube amps. The M4.0t simply sounds better to these ears and presents a well balanced, pleasant to the ears sonic signature. Adcom amps are not what you would consider warm (read bright) and you already stated that you do not prefer the sound of the Parasound amp you have.

    Out of the choices you presented? I would choose the Carver M4.0t.

    With your price range, I would try to find a Musical Fidelity A3cr and call it a day.

    Tom

    Tom I'd like to know how they are different? It has always been my understanding they are the same inside. 4.0t was a anthracite gray in color and the TFM as well all know was Black. I might be mistaken but I was sure Roland had told me they were internally the same creature. Were they voiced differently?
  • DSkipDSkip Posts: 16,115
  • F1nutF1nut Posts: 42,687
    DSkip wrote: »
    If you want dark go B&K.

    That's not dark, that's musical.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


    President of Club Polk

  • daddyjtdaddyjt Posts: 1,043
    pitdogg2 wrote: »
    I own a TFM45. Unless the amp you're looking at has been recapped and completely gone through in the last couple of years you can add 500.00 to what ever price you're paying for it. This is fact and not just "well it should be done" . The icing on the cake is IF someone has been inside and did work it could be more. Many get inside and cause more trouble than its worth.

    I can recap and fully calibrate a TFM45/42/M4.0t for about $250 + shipping. I use a bank of smaller capacitors for the main filter caps, as they are virtually extinct now, and any NOS specimens are almost half way through their usable life, before they are ever installed in an amp. The smaller bank of capacitors is superior in performance, with a much lower ESR, and the cost is significantly less.

    I would personally go with an M500t, in the mkII configuration - especially if you like a warmer, more musical sound. The 500t is widely considered the most musical of the Carver solid state designs.
    Too much stuff to keep track of.

    Currently enjoying: Legacy Focus 20/20, McCormack DNA 225, Bill D C1, Oppo 105
  • pitdogg2pitdogg2 Posts: 14,313
    edited July 2017
    Carver TFM-45 Silver Seven Transfer functuoned
    daddyjt wrote: »
    pitdogg2 wrote: »
    I own a TFM45. Unless the amp you're looking at has been recapped and completely gone through in the last couple of years you can add 500.00 to what ever price you're paying for it. This is fact and not just "well it should be done" . The icing on the cake is IF someone has been inside and did work it could be more. Many get inside and cause more trouble than its worth.

    I can recap and fully calibrate a TFM45/42/M4.0t for about $250 + shipping. I use a bank of smaller capacitors for the main filter caps, as they are virtually extinct now, and any NOS specimens are almost half way through their usable life, before they are ever installed in an amp. The smaller bank of capacitors is superior in performance, with a much lower ESR, and the cost is significantly less.

    I would personally go with an M500t, in the mkII configuration - especially if you like a warmer, more musical sound. The 500t is widely considered the most musical of the Carver solid state designs.

    That is what Roland at Hi-Tech Audio Ltd. did was a bank of Panasonics IIRC. Also all electrolytic's were replaced and bypassed with good quality film caps. All was approved by the man himself Bob Carver. Once again IIRC Roland stated that with the bank of smaller caps he did the amp had more capacitance that the original HUGE caps. I believe both my TFM45/25 both had superior sound than when new from the factory not once have I regretted spending the money. Roland also did all the output transistors with new heat goop and made sure they were all up to spec and replaced those that were not.

    This by no means is a slap at you. That sounds like a great deal.

    Between my shipping to and from it was close to the amount I stated. So at about 10yrs ago I felt I wasn't far from reality to cost.

    The only problem with the 500T is it is not common ground and cannot be used with SDA's if that is your cup of tea.
  • DSkipDSkip Posts: 16,115
    F1nut wrote: »
    DSkip wrote: »
    If you want dark go B&K.

    That's not dark, that's musical.

    The top end rolls off. It would be a good match for the rta12 IMO. Better than the other two options.
  • daddyjtdaddyjt Posts: 1,043
    pitdogg2 wrote: »
    daddyjt wrote: »
    pitdogg2 wrote: »
    I own a TFM45. Unless the amp you're looking at has been recapped and completely gone through in the last couple of years you can add 500.00 to what ever price you're paying for it. This is fact and not just "well it should be done" . The icing on the cake is IF someone has been inside and did work it could be more. Many get inside and cause more trouble than its worth.

    I can recap and fully calibrate a TFM45/42/M4.0t for about $250 + shipping. I use a bank of smaller capacitors for the main filter caps, as they are virtually extinct now, and any NOS specimens are almost half way through their usable life, before they are ever installed in an amp. The smaller bank of capacitors is superior in performance, with a much lower ESR, and the cost is significantly less.

    I would personally go with an M500t, in the mkII configuration - especially if you like a warmer, more musical sound. The 500t is widely considered the most musical of the Carver solid state designs.

    That is what Roland at Hi-Tech Audio Ltd. did was a bank of Panasonics IIRC. Also all electrolytic's were replaced and bypassed with good quality film caps. All was approved by the man himself Bob Carver. Once again IIRC Roland stated that with the bank of smaller caps he did the amp had more capacitance that the original HUGE caps. I believe both my TFM45/25 both had superior sound than when new from the factory not once have I regretted spending the money. Roland also did all the output transistors with new heat goop and made sure they were all up to spec and replaced those that were not.

    This by no means is a slap at you. That sounds like a great deal.

    Between my shipping to and from it was close to the amount I stated. So at about 10yrs ago I felt I wasn't far from reality to cost.

    The only problem with the 500T is it is not common ground and cannot be used with SDA's if that is your cup of tea.

    No slap intended on my part either...;-) I am a hobbyist, and I work at my own pace, as a form of therapy. I don't really change a whole lot more than just what the parts cost, as it's not a business for me - I just enjoy working on electronics, and have gotten deeper and deeper into the hobby, with a fully equipped bench now. I have gotten to know Bob's designs pretty well (They ARE dramatically different than what most electronics repair people are accustomed to working on, to your point), and they are actually pretty interesting to work on...

    Too much stuff to keep track of.

    Currently enjoying: Legacy Focus 20/20, McCormack DNA 225, Bill D C1, Oppo 105
  • CH46ECH46E Posts: 1,207
    Wow, thanks for all the responces. Skip, you hit it on the head. My main focus is the RTA12B. I just like them better than the srs. Plus my room size os a factor for the srs.

    Im suprised at the acceptance of the Carver. Also from what i remember as pitdog said, i dont think there is any major diff betweeen the 4.0t and tfm45. Both are function calibrated off the Silver Seven. At least that is what i understood.

    Someone stated the Parasound sounded sterile. I agree but did not know what word to descibe it. It just does not effect me like the sound of other amps ive heard. Some make the hair stand up on the back on my neck and some dont. When i first got my NAD 906 hooked up it sounded absolutley phenominal to me. I loved it.

    I will keep an eye out on the TFM 45s and the M4.0t. Id rather have the 45. As childish as it soulds i love the VU meters. Lol. If i can find one that needs a repair for the right price i may just go for it and send it to The Carver Site guys for a full upgrade. I think the charge for the 45 is $365 or so.


    I have like the sound of B&K in tha past so thats another option. Was also looking at sone Acurus amps.

    Thanks again for the info guys.

    Fyi my Parasound is on the bay right now. I think 2 days left. Hope it sells.
  • DSkipDSkip Posts: 16,115
    I honestly don't think you'll like the Carver on them and I know you won't like the Adcom on it. You want something warmer than those.

    Might I suggest also looking for a Mitsubishi DA series amplifier if budget is a concern. NAD as you said might do well with the RTA12. I found my RTA12 to need warmth to smooth out the sound.
  • CH46ECH46E Posts: 1,207
  • F1nutF1nut Posts: 42,687
    Both are function calibrated off the Silver Seven.

    Biggest joke in audio. None of the Carver SS amps sound anywhere close to the Silver Seven tube amps.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


    President of Club Polk

  • F1nutF1nut Posts: 42,687
    DSkip wrote: »
    F1nut wrote: »
    DSkip wrote: »
    If you want dark go B&K.

    That's not dark, that's musical.

    The top end rolls off. It would be a good match for the rta12 IMO. Better than the other two options.

    I'd describe the top end as natural as opposed to many amps with a hyper detailed top end that far too many think sounds like real music does.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


    President of Club Polk

  • F1nutF1nut Posts: 42,687
    edited July 2017
    ....

    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


    President of Club Polk

  • kharp1kharp1 Posts: 3,345
    Here is a link to a NuForce amp that has gotten some pretty good reviews. They are closing it out and the price for new is great. I have no affiliation with this and have no experience with this amp.

    http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=NUSTA200

    Here is a link to TAS review:

    http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/optoma-nuforce-sta200-power-amplifier/
    Main System:
    Joule-Electra LA 100 MKIII Upgraded by Rich Brkich Pre
    Butler Audio TBD 2250 Amp
    PS Audio DirectStream DAC and MemoryPlayer Transport
    LSA-1 Statement
    SVS SB4000 & SB2000
    Wireworld Equinox 7 bi-wire, Wireworld Silver Eclipse 7 IC

    Secondary Rig:
    Parasound P5, Audio Electronics by Cary Constellation
    Marsh a200s, Audio Elecrtonics by Cary Hercules
    Pioneer Elite DV-45a, Denon DVD-2910
    Klipsch Epic CF-1, Vandersteen 3CE sig
    Analysus Plus Oval

    Backup Gear:
    Pass Labs Aleph 30, McCormack DNA-125, Parasound A21
    Marantz SA-14S1
    Usher CP-6311/Tyler Acoustics Taylo Reference Monitor, LSA-1
  • CH46ECH46E Posts: 1,207
    My concearn witg the Nuforce is tge 80 watts per rating. While i know 80 watts can be loud but i dont thinknloud enough for me. I do like to play at or near the speakers limit. I like very loud sometimes. Thats the reason i dont use the 90 bridged NAD 906. Plus i cant use it on the sda.
  • treitz3treitz3 Posts: 13,045
    Carver TFM-45 Silver Seven Transfer functuoned
    pitdogg2 wrote: »
    treitz3 wrote: »
    The Carver M4.0t is reputed as one of the best sounding amps within the lineup of standard Carver amps and I personally prefer the M4.0t to the TFM-45, even though the TFM-45 was emulated to sound like the famed Silver Seven tube amps. The M4.0t simply sounds better to these ears and presents a well balanced, pleasant to the ears sonic signature. Adcom amps are not what you would consider warm (read bright) and you already stated that you do not prefer the sound of the Parasound amp you have.

    Out of the choices you presented? I would choose the Carver M4.0t.

    With your price range, I would try to find a Musical Fidelity A3cr and call it a day.

    Tom

    Tom I'd like to know how they are different? It has always been my understanding they are the same inside. 4.0t was a anthracite gray in color and the TFM as well all know was Black. I might be mistaken but I was sure Roland had told me they were internally the same creature. Were they voiced differently?

    Hi pitdogg2. The TFM 5 series were all emulated to sound like the Silver Seven tube amps (15, 25, 35, 45, 55, 75) and Jesse is 100% correct. They may have been made to emulate the tube amps but the differences between the actual Silver Sevens and the TFM 5 series are vast.

    It has always been my understanding that the M4.0t and the TFM-42 with the weird strobe lights in the front were emulated to sound like another amp that escapes me at the moment.

    The M1.0 was emulated to sound like Bob wanted and the M1.0t to emulate the sound of the Conrad Johnson Premier 5 after winning the famous Carver challenge against Stereophile magazine and their "Golden Ears" many moons ago in a hotel room over the course of three or 4 days.

    FWIW, the M1.0t is the least favorite amp of mine (and many other share this observation) unless you are using it to power a sub or something. The linear frequency curve and sonic signature is.....um, shall we say, bright. Yes, we will call it bright.

    With that said, my two favorite sonic signatures and overall sound characteristics within the mainstream Carver amps are the M-500t and the M4.0t. My favorite rare Carver amps are the Silver 7's and the Silver 9 tube amps that still get critical acclaim after all these years.

    Tom

    In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence.

    The best way to enjoy digital music reproduction is to never listen to good analogue reproduction.

    ~ When the law ends, tyranny begins ~
  • pitdogg2pitdogg2 Posts: 14,313
    edited July 2017
    Carver TFM-45 Silver Seven Transfer functuoned
    Yea i have had the pleasure of hearing the tubes back in the day. Their finesse has to be experienced and i agree vast differences in signatures. I was always under the impression that the tfm 22/42 were exactly the same as 25/45 but l.e.d. instead of vu meters. I always wanted a set of the silver 7 or 9 monoblocs those are beasts. With SDA's they would not be a go from my understanding.
    Yea it would be nice to experience the world of carverfest i do not ever see it in my future however.
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