Vincent PHO 8

motorhead43026
motorhead43026 Posts: 3,897
in 2 Channel Audio
AA has these for 300.00, I believe there are some experienced users here. I need something that will better the phono pre in the P5. This thing worth the cost?

TYIA
The best way to predict the future is to invent it.

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  • DaveHo
    DaveHo Posts: 3,500
    Timely posting. Been looking at this, the PHO-700, & the Pro-Ject Tube Box DS as well.
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  • msg
    msg Posts: 9,987
    I like the PHO-8 a lot, but it's currently set up with a B&K AVR 507. I can test it on a P5 for comparison.

    I'm using a Budgie on the P5 right now and like it over the P5's phono pre.
    I haven't really done any critical comparison between the P5's onboard phono section vs and outboard piece, but my general impression of the onboard phono section is that it's more detailed and a bit thinner sounding compared to the Budgie.

    I've only used the PHO-8 so far on the secondary system, which is a similar table, different cart, and B&K AVR 507.

    Which cartridge are you using? Is it MM or MC?
    Any particular type of music you'd like tested? I can try to find something of similarity in my collection to try.

    Overall, I find the PHO-8 to be smooth and pleasing.
    Only thing I don't like about phono so far is the reduced gain. Just a weird/ocd thing for me, having to turn up the volume.
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  • motorhead43026
    motorhead43026 Posts: 3,897
    My biggest complaint of the P5 phono is the gain and background noise. You have to turn up the volume up so much the background noise become apparent. Not that it is overwhelming but it is apparent. My system otherwise is very quite. I hope the Vincent is quieter and better in the midrange than the P5, where it is a bit thin. I have tried different cartridges with the same result, so I am blaming the P5. I have a MM cartridge, and curious if there is a big difference in midrange bass between the two.
    The best way to predict the future is to invent it.

    It is imperative that we recognize that an opinion is not a fact.
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  • DaveHo
    DaveHo Posts: 3,500
    I'm not sure an external phono pre will change the volume setting. I'm currently using a Cambridge 640p with my Parasound P5. The volume control is set to at least 12 o'clock when listening to the turntable unless someone in the house is trying to sleep, and I wouldn't consider the noon setting to be loud. I'm currently using an Audio Technica 440mla which is a mm cart.
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  • motorhead43026
    motorhead43026 Posts: 3,897
    ^^The gain does not bother me, the background noise does. Do you experience this with the P5.
    The best way to predict the future is to invent it.

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  • msg
    msg Posts: 9,987
    Okay, I can listen for that. I notice that with any MM cart on any equipment I use, I always have to crank the volume at least double, if not more, to reach the comparable listening level of a digital source. I've not tried an MC cart yet.

    When you say background noise, are you meaning clicks, pops, etc. from record debris and imperfections? If so, what are you doing for vinyl cleaning/maintenance?

    Re: the volume, some guys run these LOMC/SUT setups, iirc - low output MC carts with a Step-Up Transformer. As I understand it it can also get a setup more in the normal volume control range? Not sure. Also not sure how this gain affects presentation of imperfections on the records. I presume it's anything coming from the stylus, so this would also be amped. Maybe one of the phono gurus can hop on soon.

    Do you know which cartridge specifically? Carts do affect the SQ, same as other components. That matching/synergy thing.

    I've been playing with a Mity Zerostat lately. Apparently static can contribute a good measure to the noise of a record?
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  • MrBuhl
    MrBuhl Posts: 2,419
    I had a Pho-8 and liked it a lot. Its very stout for a small box, and quiet with the separate power supply. Doesn't take up a lot of rack space, but also heavy enough that premium cabling doesn't drag it around if you know what I mean. I used it with several different setups, never dissapointed me. I now run the Pho-700 which I like even more honestly. No experience with the Parasound though, so I can't help you there.
    VA HT HK AVR20II, Sony S9000ES CD/DVD/SACD, Polk Audio RC80i / Polk Audio CSi3, 60" Panasonic Plasma, Nordost / Signal Cable A2 / Wireworld / Pangea / Magic Power
    VA 2 Channel Focal Electra 926 speakers, Pass Labs X150.5 Amp, Eastern Electric MiniMax Preamp (Tutay mods), Eastern Electric Minimax CDP (Scott Nixon mods), Music Hall mmf 5.1 Turntable, Parks Audio Budgie Phono Pre , Audioengine B1 streamer, MIT S3 IC's / MIT Shotgun S3 Speaker Cables / PS Audio power cables
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    Audible Illusions L1 Preamp
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    Pho-700 Phono Pre
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  • motorhead43026
    motorhead43026 Posts: 3,897
    MSG, what I call white noise. Not much different than the old days when you wake up on the couch and the station is off air....lol.
    The best way to predict the future is to invent it.

    It is imperative that we recognize that an opinion is not a fact.
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  • motorhead43026
    motorhead43026 Posts: 3,897
    MrBuhl, that is what I was wanting to hear, quiet.
    The best way to predict the future is to invent it.

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  • DaveHo
    DaveHo Posts: 3,500
    Yes, I have background noise as well as a bit of hum. It's not noticeable with music playing but between tracks & with the arm on the rest it's audible at the listening position. I would't say it detracts from my enjoyment of the music, but it sure does bug me.
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  • motorhead43026
    motorhead43026 Posts: 3,897
    MSG, don't go to any trouble on my behalf. I think I will just buy it and try it. If I do not like I can return. Thank you much.
    The best way to predict the future is to invent it.

    It is imperative that we recognize that an opinion is not a fact.
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  • DaveHo
    DaveHo Posts: 3,500
    MrBuhl wrote: »
    I had a Pho-8 and liked it a lot. Its very stout for a small box, and quiet with the separate power supply. Doesn't take up a lot of rack space, but also heavy enough that premium cabling doesn't drag it around if you know what I mean. I used it with several different setups, never dissapointed me. I now run the Pho-700 which I like even more honestly. No experience with the Parasound though, so I can't help you there.

    @MrBuhl, Since it's tube based, how long of a warm-up do you feel is needed? I guess that question would apply to any tube based phono pre.
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  • gudnoyez
    gudnoyez Posts: 8,114
    I have the PHO 700 matched with my Vincent Preamp. I'm pretty happy with it. The PHO 8 was my first choice but Audio Advisor had the 700s on sale at the time, matter of fact they are on sale this very moment.
    Home Theater
    Parasound Halo A 31 OnkyoTX-NR838 Sony XBR55X850B 55" 4K RtiA9 Fronts CsiA6 Center RtiA3 Rears FxiA6 Side Surrounds Dual Psw 111's Oppo 105D Signal Ultra Speaker Cables & IC's Signal Magic Power Cable Technics SL Q300 Panamax MR4300 Audioquest Chocolate HDMI Cables Audioquest Forest USB Cable

    2 Channel
    Adcom 555II Vincent SA-T1 Marantz SA 15S2 Denon DR-M11 Clearaudio Bluemotion SDA 2.3tl's (Z) edition MIT Terminator II Speaker Cables & IC's Adcom 545II Adcom Gtp-450 Marantz CD5004 Technics M245X SDA 2B's, SDA CRS+

    Stuff for the Head
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    Shower & Off the beaten path Rigs
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  • voltz
    voltz Posts: 5,384
    I had a PHO-8 for a long time and after a parasound Z-Phono & a Graham Slee GramAmp SE before the Vincent. I really like it and used it on MM setting with a SUT for my High MC cartridge.

    I just sold it to KEV and now will upgrade to the PHO-700
    2 ch- Polk CRS+ * Vincent SA-31MK Preamp * Vincent Sp-331 Amp * Marantz SA8005 SACD * Project Xperience Classic TT * Sumiko Blue Point #2 MC cartridge

    HT - Polk 703's * NAD T-758 * Adcom 5503 * Oppo 103 * Samsung 60" series 8 LCD
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  • SCompRacer
    SCompRacer Posts: 8,485
    edited May 2017
    msg wrote: »

    Re: the volume, some guys run these LOMC/SUT setups, iirc - low output MC carts with a Step-Up Transformer. As I understand it it can also get a setup more in the normal volume control range? Not sure. Also not sure how this gain affects presentation of imperfections on the records. I presume it's anything coming from the stylus, so this would also be amped.

    The job of the SUT or step up transformer is to properly load the MC cartridge and supply the extra passive gain and resistance needed to work with an MM phono stage. The passive SUT/MM combo results in less volume required than just using an MM stage. So yes, you are in the more normal volume range on the pre amp.

    I've had some nice tube and SS MC phono stages, and IMO a well done SUT into a very good design MM stage can result in less noise than just a good design MC phono stage. IMO a high quality MM stage is more affordable than a high quality MC stage, but you do have the cost of the SUT to figure in.

    I use a Park's Audio Budgie SUT into a Bottlehead Eros MM stage. Cartridge is AT33PTG/II, .3mV output. It is a two speed SUT, 1:9 / 1:18 and I use the 1:9 ratio, ~18dB of gain. Multiply the ratio times the cartridge output gives you approximate gain in voltage. 9 x .3 = 2.7mV. The suggested cartridge output for the Eros is 2.5mV.

    The Budgie with CineMag trannies.

    budgie_1.jpg

    You can also build your own SUT. Best to use a shielded enclosure for noise rejection. This one used high quality sealed switches with silver contacts.

    budgie_3.jpg
    Salk SoundScape 8's * Audio Research Reference 3 * Bottlehead Eros Phono * Park's Audio Budgie SUT * Krell KSA-250 * Harmonic Technology Pro 9+ * Signature Series Sonore Music Server w/Deux PS * Roon * Gustard R26 DAC / Singxer SU-6 DDC * Heavy Plinth Lenco L75 Idler Drive * AA MG-1 Linear Air Bearing Arm * AT33PTG/II & Denon 103R * Richard Gray 600S * NHT B-12d subs * GIK Acoustic Treatments * Sennheiser HD650 *
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  • MrBuhl
    MrBuhl Posts: 2,419
    DaveHo wrote: »
    MrBuhl wrote: »
    I had a Pho-8 and liked it a lot. Its very stout for a small box, and quiet with the separate power supply. Doesn't take up a lot of rack space, but also heavy enough that premium cabling doesn't drag it around if you know what I mean. I used it with several different setups, never dissapointed me. I now run the Pho-700 which I like even more honestly. No experience with the Parasound though, so I can't help you there.

    @MrBuhl, Since it's tube based, how long of a warm-up do you feel is needed? I guess that question would apply to any tube based phono pre.

    I warm it up with everything else honestly, so I aim for an hour minimum, but sometimes it's less. I will say, the Vincent Pho seems to be much less affected by warm up time than say, my Dodd 50W which most definitely has an audible difference when fully warmed up. But it also runs a single 12au7, so it isn't heating up all them juicy 6ca7's (4x) and bronze 5687's (4x)! Maybe that has an effect.

    VA HT HK AVR20II, Sony S9000ES CD/DVD/SACD, Polk Audio RC80i / Polk Audio CSi3, 60" Panasonic Plasma, Nordost / Signal Cable A2 / Wireworld / Pangea / Magic Power
    VA 2 Channel Focal Electra 926 speakers, Pass Labs X150.5 Amp, Eastern Electric MiniMax Preamp (Tutay mods), Eastern Electric Minimax CDP (Scott Nixon mods), Music Hall mmf 5.1 Turntable, Parks Audio Budgie Phono Pre , Audioengine B1 streamer, MIT S3 IC's / MIT Shotgun S3 Speaker Cables / PS Audio power cables
    Noggin Schiit Valhalla, Pangea, Phillips Fidelio X1, Polk UF8000

    Polk SDA1c modded
    Polk CRS+ 4.1TL modded (need veneer)
    Polk SDA2BTL (fully modded)
    A/L 1000VA Dreadnought Canare 4s11 SDA cable
    SACD Marantz DV8300
    Sony S9000ES CD/DVD/SACD
    Yamaha YP-D6
    Soundcraftsmen PCR800
    Audible Illusions L1 Preamp
    Vincent MFA based Cocci Tube Preamp
    Pho-700 Phono Pre
    Signal Cable Silver Resolution IC's






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  • msg
    msg Posts: 9,987
    Gyah, I think I got it all mixed up.
    That's what happens when your buddy who can't speak English is typing to you on a tablet all the time.
    I disabled signatures.
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  • gudnoyez
    gudnoyez Posts: 8,114
    I usually give my PHO-700 and my Vincent Preamp at least 30 minutes.
    Home Theater
    Parasound Halo A 31 OnkyoTX-NR838 Sony XBR55X850B 55" 4K RtiA9 Fronts CsiA6 Center RtiA3 Rears FxiA6 Side Surrounds Dual Psw 111's Oppo 105D Signal Ultra Speaker Cables & IC's Signal Magic Power Cable Technics SL Q300 Panamax MR4300 Audioquest Chocolate HDMI Cables Audioquest Forest USB Cable

    2 Channel
    Adcom 555II Vincent SA-T1 Marantz SA 15S2 Denon DR-M11 Clearaudio Bluemotion SDA 2.3tl's (Z) edition MIT Terminator II Speaker Cables & IC's Adcom 545II Adcom Gtp-450 Marantz CD5004 Technics M245X SDA 2B's, SDA CRS+

    Stuff for the Head
    JD LABS C5 Headphone Amplifier, Sennheiser HD 598, Polk Audio Buckle, Polk Audio Hinge, Velodyne vPulse, Bose IE2, Sennheiser CX 200 Street II, Sennheiser MX 365

    Shower & Off the beaten path Rigs
    Polk Audio Boom Swimmer, Polk Audio Urchin B)
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  • voltz
    voltz Posts: 5,384
    edited May 2017
    Actually you mostly got right.

    without a SUT my High MC Cartridge with a MM phono amp, the volume was around 12oc compared to my SACD player. but with the SUT it was down to 9 o'clock.

    I can't type english either ;)
    2 ch- Polk CRS+ * Vincent SA-31MK Preamp * Vincent Sp-331 Amp * Marantz SA8005 SACD * Project Xperience Classic TT * Sumiko Blue Point #2 MC cartridge

    HT - Polk 703's * NAD T-758 * Adcom 5503 * Oppo 103 * Samsung 60" series 8 LCD
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  • schwarcw
    schwarcw Posts: 7,335
    I second the Budgie for use with your phono preamp. My phono gain is higher than with any of my digital sources. Like Scomp told me the SUT gives the music the "torque"!
    Carl

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  • SCompRacer
    SCompRacer Posts: 8,485
    edited May 2017
    schwarcw wrote: »
    I second the Budgie for use with your phono preamp. My phono gain is higher than with any of my digital sources. Like Scomp told me the SUT gives the music the "torque"!

    Hey Carl! LOL I did say that, didn't I.... I love my Budgie/Eros combo!

    Park's does internal IC's now on his SUT to ensure they stay short. He also offers the Jensen tranny now. Jensen is only a one speed tranny (1:10) though he said in the future they may offer a two speed.

    budgietenb.jpg
    Salk SoundScape 8's * Audio Research Reference 3 * Bottlehead Eros Phono * Park's Audio Budgie SUT * Krell KSA-250 * Harmonic Technology Pro 9+ * Signature Series Sonore Music Server w/Deux PS * Roon * Gustard R26 DAC / Singxer SU-6 DDC * Heavy Plinth Lenco L75 Idler Drive * AA MG-1 Linear Air Bearing Arm * AT33PTG/II & Denon 103R * Richard Gray 600S * NHT B-12d subs * GIK Acoustic Treatments * Sennheiser HD650 *
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  • motorhead43026
    motorhead43026 Posts: 3,897
    I have been enjoying this PHO 8 for several days now. It really is a sweet kit for the money. It should serve me well for a while.
    The best way to predict the future is to invent it.

    It is imperative that we recognize that an opinion is not a fact.
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  • cvc
    cvc Posts: 65
    I also enjoy my PHO 8.. Had it about a year now.. Sounds great between my Pro-ject Esprit and my older Yamaha DSPA-1..
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  • halo
    halo Posts: 5,616
    I don't ever recall having my volume knob at 12 o'clock when listening to records with the P5 using the phono input or using an external phono pre through one of the "regular" inputs. I guess YMMV.
    Audio: Polk S15 * Polk S35 * Polk S10 * SVS SB-1000 Pro
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  • msg
    msg Posts: 9,987
    Victor, curious, which table, cart, amp and speakers was that with? I always have to jack my volume with phono.
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