SRS 1.2 no bass
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I'll save the battery test for after I re-re-recheck the wiring again.
Seems to me like you are putting the cart before the horse. The battery test will tell you if you need to re-check the wiring. BTW, A tweeter being out of phase won't kill the bass...- SDA 2BTL · Sonicaps · Mills resistors · RDO-198s · New gaskets · H-nuts · Erse inductors · BH5 · Dynamat
- Crossover upgrades by westmassguy
- Marantz 1504 AVR (front speaker pre-outs to Adcom 555)
- Adcom GFA-555 amp · Upgrades & speaker protection added by OldmanSRS
- Pioneer DV-610AV DVD/CD player
- SDA CRS+ · Hidden away in the closet
- SDA 2BTL · Sonicaps · Mills resistors · RDO-198s · New gaskets · H-nuts · Erse inductors · BH5 · Dynamat
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I'm back. Been out of country for a while.
Battery test, all good. They all go the same direction.
Spiked the speakers; looks pretty, no noticeable bass improvement.
I've given up. Using the sub to make up for the missing bass. -
Near as I can tell you haven't addressed the air leak issue and without doing that you'll never get good bass.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
I tightened the nuts on the top and bottom plates and sealed all around the nuts. I even sealed the bottom and top edges of the cabinet. I did a tissue test around the back plate and all the drivers and they don't seem to be blowing air. Where else can the cabinet leak?
The push test doesn't hold the drivers out, but they go in kinda slow, maybe 2 seconds or so. It's the same as my SDA 2s and they sound bassy... -
I meant the sda 1bs. I get confused...
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I'd be suspicious of having one cabinet out-of-phase from the other. This will kill the bass, and screw with the SDA effect. If both cabinets have revered polarity, I'm thinking that the bass will be fine, but there will be no SDA effect.
???Have you ever reversed the primary speaker cables on ONE cabinet, and listened for a change?
This thing is just screaming "one channel is out-of-phase with the other channel" to me. It's a common source of "no bass".
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I tightened the nuts on the top and bottom plates and sealed all around the nuts. I even sealed the bottom and top edges of the cabinet. I did a tissue test around the back plate and all the drivers and they don't seem to be blowing air. Where else can the cabinet leak?
The push test doesn't hold the drivers out, but they go in kinda slow, maybe 2 seconds or so. It's the same as my SDA 2s and they sound bassy...
So, as you push in and hold in the PR the drivers pop out and start to return. It's the length of time it takes them to return that matters. Two seconds is too short. Air can leak from bad gaskets and the cabinet seams. Do the rest of the seams and inspect every gasket. They should be paper thin, but any rips, etc. is a problem.
Schurkey makes a valid point.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
Not sure how this factors in, but the O.P. mentions almost no bass at all, even with bass control at maximum and loudness switch on.
He says his other smaller Polks have far more bass even with the bass set to neutral position.
Could the Op try doing those same settings with only ONE speaker playing, and the other with one wire removed and see if he gets same results?
And then do the same to the other speaker.
Then reverse the leads to ONE speaker and see how it seems. -
I've tried one speaker and then the other. I did swap the wires before I took out the drivers to check wiring polarity. The wires on the inside of the cup match the outside speaker terminals. All the drivers are wired correctly.
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I read the thread but its 545am for me right now so don't fault me for missing something. Has the Passive been removed and confirmed dacron is still in place? How far do you have the speakers from your back wall? How far back are you sitting from the speakers?
For my SDA 2bs I sit about 7-8 feet away from them and that is where I get bass, if I go any closer it drastically changes. My room can't handle the speakers XDJust a dude doing dude-ly things
"Temptation is the manifestation of desire which equals necessity." - Mikey081057
" I have always had a champange taste with a beer budget" - Rick88
"Just because the thread is getting views don't mean much .. I like a good train wreck doesn't mean i want to be in one..." - pitdogg2
"Those that don't know, don't know that they don't know." - heiney9
"Audiophiles are the male equivalent of cat ladies." - Audiokarma Member -
I've checked the 15s. The foam seal looks good and the styrofoam is still in place. I've had the speakers from about 4" to 12" from the wall, and I usually move around all over the house while the music is on. The sofa is centered about 10' from the speakers. My recliner is about 8' from right speaker.
Don't get me wrong, the speakers make some bass, just nothing noticeable. It's about the same bass I get out of 5.25 door speakers in my car. The amp works great on the 1Bs (had them connected before the 1.2s), but that was a different house. Maybe it's my room that's sucking out my bass. It's concrete floors covered with tile, 8" stone walls, concrete ceiling. The room is about 400 sq ft. with a 150 sq ft room behind the wall where the speakers are. The left speaker is about 3' from the wall, the right about 20' from the right wall. -
Something is amiss with them. Mine (thanks again, Josh!) have made prodigious bass everywhere I've had them hooked up - in the middle of a 30'x40' garage (with 19' ceiling), along the short wall of the same garage, in my 15'x30' living room, and in multiple locations in my unfinished basement. I had planned to use a sub with them, but there is simply no need.
Verify function and polarity of each driver independently, and check the crossovers for correct components, values, and wiring. At least that's where I'd start, for the strong lack of bass you are experiencing."Conservative Libertarians love the country, progressive leftists love the government." - Andrew Wilkow
“Human beings are born with different capacities. If they are free, they are not equal. And if they are equal, they are not free.”
― Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn -
I've checked the 15s. The foam seal looks good and the styrofoam is still in place. I've had the speakers from about 4" to 12" from the wall, and I usually move around all over the house while the music is on. The sofa is centered about 10' from the speakers. My recliner is about 8' from right speaker.
Don't get me wrong, the speakers make some bass, just nothing noticeable. It's about the same bass I get out of 5.25 door speakers in my car. The amp works great on the 1Bs (had them connected before the 1.2s), but that was a different house. Maybe it's my room that's sucking out my bass. It's concrete floors covered with tile, 8" stone walls, concrete ceiling. The room is about 400 sq ft. with a 150 sq ft room behind the wall where the speakers are. The left speaker is about 3' from the wall, the right about 20' from the right wall.
Was there any Dacron (looks like polyfill) behind the passive or was it an empty chamber?Just a dude doing dude-ly things
"Temptation is the manifestation of desire which equals necessity." - Mikey081057
" I have always had a champange taste with a beer budget" - Rick88
"Just because the thread is getting views don't mean much .. I like a good train wreck doesn't mean i want to be in one..." - pitdogg2
"Those that don't know, don't know that they don't know." - heiney9
"Audiophiles are the male equivalent of cat ladies." - Audiokarma Member -
Something is amiss with them. Mine (thanks again, Josh!) have made prodigious bass everywhere I've had them hooked up - in the middle of a 30'x40' garage (with 19' ceiling), along the short wall of the same garage, in my 15'x30' living room, and in multiple locations in my unfinished basement. I had planned to use a sub with them, but there is simply no need.
Verify function and polarity of each driver independently, and check the crossovers for correct components, values, and wiring. At least that's where I'd start, for the strong lack of bass you are experiencing.
He is right, I mean I have some SDA 2Bs that have 2 mid drivers and a 12 inch passive...on certain songs the bass is almost too much with the tone control set to neutral, 6 inches from the back walls, 6 feet apart sitting about 6-8 feet away. I am young so when I say the bass is too much TRUST me on that.Just a dude doing dude-ly things
"Temptation is the manifestation of desire which equals necessity." - Mikey081057
" I have always had a champange taste with a beer budget" - Rick88
"Just because the thread is getting views don't mean much .. I like a good train wreck doesn't mean i want to be in one..." - pitdogg2
"Those that don't know, don't know that they don't know." - heiney9
"Audiophiles are the male equivalent of cat ladies." - Audiokarma Member -
Maybe an obvious question, but were the other speakers the O.P. Compared against, used in the SAME room and with the same amp and set up?
As the O.P. describes it, the drivers are not moving very much, even with the bass at maximum.
That alone should preclude, room acoustics or passive radiators or leaks or even both pairs being hooked up reverse polarity, as they should Still move a lot even if one speaker is opposite of the other.
What is left?
Something wrong with amp or system electronics? (unless other speakers were good in that same set up)
Crossover issues, or internal wiring issues?
Drivers maybe hooked up wrong within same cabinet? -
The polyfill stuff is glued to the top, hanging down behind each row of mids. It stops at the bottom of the mids, with nothing behind the passive. Both speakers are the same way.
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I can play rap and techno stuff (newer 808 heavy bass, not old school bass) and leave the bass control at 0 and max out the amp (decibel meter shows 125db at 1 meter), and the mids move out about 1/2 inch with the beat.
If I do the bass-drop stuff (I think some of that is remastered to blow up speakers), I get more movement, but only when it's up loud. As for normal listening, if bass is at 0 to +10 and loudness is off (don't care for the tone change), it sounds about as bassy as an old dial phone. -
Do you have access to a "test" CD, that has tracks with different tones on it?
If so, try, starting at say a normal volume, maybe 85db at 500hz and consecutively move lower 250hz, 125 hz 100hz 60hz and so on to the deepest bass tones and read what level the tones are playing at.
Your description is quite puzzling. At the EXTREMELY high level you mentioned (125db) was there actual bass heard in the room?
You mention at normal levels, it sounds like a dial phone?? Which to me would mean literally no bass whatsoever? -
Maybe it's my room that's sucking out my bass. It's concrete floors covered with tile, 8" stone walls, concrete ceiling. The room is about 400 sq ft. with a 150 sq ft room behind the wall where the speakers are. The left speaker is about 3' from the wall, the right about 20' from the right wall.
That is a hard room and will definitely affect the bass.
Maybe I missed it, but have you done the push test?
Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
Maybe it's my room that's sucking out my bass. It's concrete floors covered with tile, 8" stone walls, concrete ceiling. The room is about 400 sq ft. with a 150 sq ft room behind the wall where the speakers are. The left speaker is about 3' from the wall, the right about 20' from the right wall.
That is a hard room and will definitely affect the bass.
Maybe I missed it, but have you done the push test?
I can not get an exact answer out of OP.
I asked if his other speakers were tested in same room with same set up.
He made a comment that his big speakers have about as much bass as a land line telephone.
That would lead me to think his issue, is far more than passives or room acoustics.
Assuming he is being accurate in his descriptions. -
Yeah...it kinda sucks about the "open baffle" behind your speakers.
"I can not get an exact answer out of OP."....
And nobody else will. -
How much are the passives moving when the mids are moving 1/2"? Put your hand on the passive and see how much force you feel from them? At those high levels and that much movement from the mids with a lot of bass the passive should be thumping.I can play rap and techno stuff (newer 808 heavy bass, not old school bass) and leave the bass control at 0 and max out the amp (decibel meter shows 125db at 1 meter), and the mids move out about 1/2 inch with the beat.
- SDA 2BTL · Sonicaps · Mills resistors · RDO-198s · New gaskets · H-nuts · Erse inductors · BH5 · Dynamat
- Crossover upgrades by westmassguy
- Marantz 1504 AVR (front speaker pre-outs to Adcom 555)
- Adcom GFA-555 amp · Upgrades & speaker protection added by OldmanSRS
- Pioneer DV-610AV DVD/CD player
- SDA CRS+ · Hidden away in the closet
- SDA 2BTL · Sonicaps · Mills resistors · RDO-198s · New gaskets · H-nuts · Erse inductors · BH5 · Dynamat
-
The push test. I push in the passive and the mids slowly settle back into place, about 2 seconds or so. The 1Bs act about the same way.
When the mids are jumping at their max of about 1/2", the passive moves about the same. The mids on my 1Bs will jump out a lot more than the 1.2s ever have moved. -
2 seconds is too short. You're bleeding air.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
I'm using an Emotiva XPA 2 (stop it) on the 1.2s. Also had a Kenwood M2A and an Onkyo SR508 connected. The M2A sounded better than the SR508, but the XPA 2 sounds better than the M2A, even though they all lack good bass on the 1.2s. The XPA 2 worked awesomely with the 1Bs. I'm stuck at the point where I need 220volts for the next 2 years and that limits some of my amp choices before I get back to the states.
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I do think the issue is amp related.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
Definitely a interesting issue! Hope you find the resolvement for it and you post the cause,I'd like to bookmark it for possible future reference.After passing the above recommendations i was thinking it may be a possible amp issue too,But if after trying 3 different amps its unlikely that's the problem,although for the sake of certainty I'd try with another set of spks,
I'm not technically knowledgeable so I'm just spitballing here but could a drop in rated AC output or a failing capacitor or other crossover component cause this condition in both spks?
Can't see how a slight cabinet leak could cause that amount of massive reduction in bass as was suggested!
Again I hope you find the answer and would appreciate your posting,
Enjoy your stay there! from what I've seen of some travel shows there's some incredibly scenic countryside over there! -
Can't see how a slight cabinet leak could cause that amount of massive reduction in bass as was suggested!
Because the PR is fluid coupled (air) any air leak in the cabinet means the PR will not move as much as it should and therefore not produce deep bass.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
As to the push test, how far are you pushing in the PR? I don't push it until it stops, I push it in until the mids come out some, then let it go.
As for the dead space behind the wall (the other room), I'll have to say that isn't the problem. My 1Bs are sitting against the same wall as the 1.2s (opposite side) and I have no bass issues with them. -
If i recall correctly you push until they extend and hold till they settle back down
in my case using that method on a pair of vintage 7/10/rta11/and 1bs they recede in around 3 seconds but dont fully seat till i let the pr goPost edited by befuddle on
