Why SACD failed

Options
13567

Comments

  • cfrizz
    cfrizz Posts: 13,415
    Options
    tonyb wrote: »
    cfrizz wrote: »
    Your gear only becomes obsolete if YOU consider it obsolete. If you just have the latest and greatest, then yes your gear will become obsolete.

    I am only now starting to think of getting a Blu-ray player, the only reason for this is because I now have an updated tv thanks to Mark. If I still had my old tv, I wouldn't even be thinking about it.

    When I do get one it will have to play all of my current media, because I will not be rebuying anything.

    I will not allow marketing to dictate to me what I should have, or when I should have it.

    I'm calling B.S. on you girlfriend...lol

    If that was indeed the case, you'd still have a tubed tv set and VHS tapes along with cassettes. I do understand the dilemma though, as many others do too. You simply can't afford these days to be switching all your gear at the rate technology keeps changing.

    Yes I would still have my Sony 32" CRT if Mark hadn't have someone come and take them out of my house for me. The VHS machines & tapes went into the garbage when I moved in 2008, I had already made the transition to DVD.

    But with the exception of my TV, SVS sub, all the rest of my gear is over 10 years old.

    But the point that I was trying to make is I decide when to upgrade and it is usually well after the introduction of whatever piece I'm replacing.
    Marantz AV-7705 PrePro, Classé 5 channel 200wpc Amp, Oppo 103 BluRay, Rotel RCD-1072 CDP, Sony XBR-49X800E TV, Polk S60 Main Speakers, Polk ES30 Center Channel, Polk S15 Surround Speakers SVS SB12-NSD x2
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 32,906
    Options
    I hear ya Cath, but many are not like you or I in that regard. They simply have to have the newest, latest and greatest. That's where the marketing guru's enter the picture to offer the bait so people will bite.

    As a side note, one member here once asked me why I haven't bought anything in years. I chuckled a little inside. Maybe because I'm happy with my system and current offerings below used car kind of money wouldn't offer me great improvement. Aside from a dedicated pre amp I was constantly keeping an eye out for, and now have, I see no reason to go further.

    Audio isn't a race, not a collection of gear to be had....except in Mr. Hardy's case. lol Once you find a sound you like, stop....enjoy it for awhile. Too many other things take up space in your wallet. I'll change for sure, but not until I can determine what will offer leaps and bounds instead of incremental improvements. For me, a dedicated music server of audio quality is next on the list, but I'm in no hurry. I'd rather go back to Italy than hear one more splash on the cymbals in my music, know what I'm sayin' ?
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    Grant Fidelity tube dac
    B&k 1420
    lsi 9's
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • cfrizz
    cfrizz Posts: 13,415
    edited January 2017
    Options
    AMEN! Preach it Brother!!! :)
    Marantz AV-7705 PrePro, Classé 5 channel 200wpc Amp, Oppo 103 BluRay, Rotel RCD-1072 CDP, Sony XBR-49X800E TV, Polk S60 Main Speakers, Polk ES30 Center Channel, Polk S15 Surround Speakers SVS SB12-NSD x2
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • rtart
    rtart Posts: 817
    Options
    While I love my SACD and DVD-A collections, a decent surround system is required to get much enjoyment from them. I have a large, dedicated HT with 7.4, and everyone who has experienced one of the go-to SACD or DVD-A multichannel tracks has been amazed. However, playing a SACD disk in the typical living room with a couple extra speakers does not come close to the same experience. Basically, if the hardware is not up to snuff, the software (i.e. disc) doesn't matter.

    I've seen the same thing happen with 3D Bluray movies. I really enjoy the 3D titles I own played in my HT on a 10 foot screen. Very immersive, sometimes jaw-dropping, and looks much better than 3D in a movie theater. However, on a 50" TV in the average living room, not so much.
    My 7.4.4 DIY 4k Home Theater:
    Polk LSiM 707 L-C-R, LSiM702 side surrounds, LSiM 705 rears
    Polk RC-80i x 4 In Ceiling Atmos speakers
    2 x SVS PB12/Plus 2's
    Denon X3700H
    Emotiva XPA11 Gen 3
    XBox One X 4k & BD and streaming
    Panasonic UB-420 4k player
    HD-A35 HD DVD
    Oppo BD-103D for hirez audio
    Technics SL-D2 TT, Grado Gold Cartridge
    JVC DLA-RS2000/NX7 projector
    Silver Ticket 120" acoustically transparent screen
    Berkline 090 electric recliners with Aura Bass Shakers
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • K_M
    K_M Posts: 1,627
    Options
    Things tend to fail, simply cause people do not want them.
    1. Most see no advantage
    2. Most see no value
    If only a tiny niche find it better, reason one.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 49,794
    edited January 2017
    Options
    While I love my SACD and DVD-A collections, a decent surround system is required to get much enjoyment from them.

    SACD is first and foremost a 2 channel format, multi-channel a mere afterthought.

    I get immense enjoyment from my 2 channel SACD rigs and find multi-channel somewhat annoying.

    Edit: thanks Mark.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 33,030
    edited January 2017
    Options
    F1nut wrote: »
    While I love my SACD and DVD-A collections, a decent surround system is required to get much enjoyment from them.

    SACD is first and foremost a 2 channel format, multi-channel a [mere] afterthought.
    ...

    That's a big 10-4.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • voltz
    voltz Posts: 5,384
    Options
    ^^^^
    ^^^^
    I completely agree - 2 channel is where it is at

    The problem with multi-channels is you normally have to use a AVR and therefore SACD's do not sound as good on my Oppo 103 with a AVR as they do on the Marantz SA-8005 with a preamp & Amplifier in 2 channels.
    2 ch- Polk CRS+ * Vincent SA-31MK Preamp * Vincent Sp-331 Amp * Marantz SA8005 SACD * Project Xperience Classic TT * Sumiko Blue Point #2 MC cartridge

    HT - Polk 703's * NAD T-758 * Adcom 5503 * Oppo 103 * Samsung 60" series 8 LCD
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • nspindel
    nspindel Posts: 5,343
    Options
    BlueFox wrote: »
    The Beatles In Mono is a great CD package.

    And an even better vinyl package!
    Good music, a good source, and good power can make SDA's sing. Tubes make them dance.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • steveinaz
    steveinaz Posts: 19,522
    Options
    1. Too costly
    2. No confidence
    3. People tired of "version upgrade" syndrome (re-buying their library AGAIN)
    4. Not enough general interest
    5. IMO, many audiophiles (me included) were afraid poor engineering laid on a great disc would nullify any advantage (can't polish a **** syndrome)
    Source: Bluesound Node 2i - Preamp/DAC: Benchmark DAC2 DX - Amp: Parasound Halo A21 - Speakers: MartinLogan Motion 60XTi - Shop Rig: Yamaha A-S501 Integrated - Shop Spkrs: Elac Debut 2.0 B5.2
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 32,906
    Options
    in regard to # 5 Steve, you can say that about any format, analog or digital. Which lends itself to #3.

    Much the same way too, people will get burnt out with video.
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    Grant Fidelity tube dac
    B&k 1420
    lsi 9's
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • Danny Tse
    Danny Tse Posts: 5,206
    Options
    Whoa!! I can't believe the author of the article and the website that published the article didn't even ask me for permission before using my photo off of my Flickr account.

    Back to SACD, what the author failed to mention:
    • 2015 was the biggest year for SACD in terms of new releases, with over 900 new releases worldwide. 2016 almost matched the number of new releases for 2015. Over 11,000 SACD titles have been released worldwide.
    • SACD survived the format war with DVD-Audio, the iPod, and it looks like it will outlast Blu-ray Audio as well. The format is closing in on its 20th anniversary.
    • SACD was designed primary as a two channel stereo source. The multi-channel DSD mix and the addition of the CD layer were afterthoughts. Most of today's top-of-the-line SACD players are 2 channel stereo only models.
    • All of the major music labels, i.e. Sony Music, Universal Music and Warner Music, continues to support SACD today. In the US, their support are through licensing their respective music to reissue labels such as Mobile Fidelity, Audio Fidelity, Analogue Productions, etc.

    Today, there are still 3 SACD pressing facilities in the world....Japan (Sony), Austria (Sony) and Germany (Sonopress). Maybe Sony should consider firing up its SACD production facilities in Indiana again.

    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User] Posts: 10,716
    edited March 2017
    Options
    SACD will go the way of vinyl...
    Depending on the artist, I enjoy the heck out of multi channel SACDs
    Here are a couple to try out if you are inclined. (or standing)
    gunther becker 'elektroakustiche musik' (now playing)
    Pink Floyd 'Dark Side of the Moon' (in the queue)
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 33,030
    Options
    rednedtugent wrote: »
    SACD will go the way of vinyl...
    Depending on the artist, I enjoy the heck out of multi channel SACDs
    Here are a couple to try out if you are inclined. (or standing)
    gunther becker 'elektroakustiche musik' (now playing)
    Pink Floyd 'Dark Side of the Moon' (in the queue)

    wait, what? Hipsters playing SACDs? Shinola employees lovingly hand-crafting SACD players in a shop window in Dee-troit?
    "Our artisan SACD players all feature hand-etched integrated circuits. Transport sleds are forged from the finest virgin iron by skilled craftspeople. Ribbon cables are insulated with hand-woven hemp fibers dyed with natural vegetable pigments for sustainability."

    :)
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • Gatecrasher
    Gatecrasher Posts: 1,550
    Options
    I remember when I was a kid in the 1960s my father (who was somewhat of an audiophile) used to tell me that mono was the true audiophile format and stereo was just a "gimmick".

    Funny how things change (and yet stay the same).

    lol
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User] Posts: 342
    edited March 2017
    Options
    nooshinjohn wrote: »
    The rollout of cd's were botched imho in the first place. I feel the technology was launched too soon in order to recover r&d spending, and the promised drop in prices did not occur until twenty years later, if at all. After spending thousands of dollars on cd's, who wants to spend thousands more to replace them again for SACD's, and mega buck players when FLAC and other formats cost less...
    Well yes one can download FLAC, DSD and others high res file types relatively cheaply, but give me an XRCD, SHM, Mofi Gold, UHQCD or DXD any time. I enjoy owning and interacting with the media & reading the liner notes. Downloads are a bit soulless. Mind you if a download was the best sounding RBCD file type, or the only way to buy the album, I would probably get the download.

    As for SACD, this thread correctly described the format as dead. Hence I wouldn't go out and spend another $20kUS on an SACD player, or sell my Vitus SCD-025 Mk2 to buy one for the comparatively tiny amount of titles available, not when my player already accepts DSD over USB...Oh yes, that download thing :persevere: ...
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User] Posts: 342
    Options
    tonyb wrote: »
    2-channel is never obsolete, no matter how old. In Ht world though, sometimes your obsolete before you walk out the store.

    But....we 2 channel weirdos are the niche market and the HT crowd is where they are making the money imho.
    I'm not so sure. In high end audio, the product life cycle of many manufacturers (including Magico) is as short as 3 years. Then a new model comes out backed by a glossy marketing campaign (incl: paid reviews) & you want to upgrade. Mind you, not all high end companies are like that. Boulder are a good example of a company with long product life cycles.

    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 49,794
    Options
    The reports of my death have been greatly exaggerated.

    Signed,
    SACD
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • afterburnt
    afterburnt Posts: 7,892
    Options
    I am doing a complete about face on my dedicated 2 channel plans. I decided on an Auralic Mini instead of a Marantz SA-8005"?" I am not going to buy anymore SACD's. from now on. I am will try and rip my DVD-A's and Blu Ray audio as well as my vinyl. I will listen to my few SACD's on the Oppo and call it a day. Eventually, I will get away from all moving parts components. Well except for a NAS and dials.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • kharp1
    kharp1 Posts: 3,453
    Options
    afterburnt wrote: »
    I am doing a complete about face on my dedicated 2 channel plans. I decided on an Auralic Mini instead of a Marantz SA-8005"?" I am not going to buy anymore SACD's. from now on. I am will try and rip my DVD-A's and Blu Ray audio as well as my vinyl. I will listen to my few SACD's on the Oppo and call it a day. Eventually, I will get away from all moving parts components. Well except for a NAS and dials.

    BIG BABY! B)

    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 32,906
    Options
    Bodhi wrote: »
    tonyb wrote: »
    2-channel is never obsolete, no matter how old. In Ht world though, sometimes your obsolete before you walk out the store.

    But....we 2 channel weirdos are the niche market and the HT crowd is where they are making the money imho.
    I'm not so sure. In high end audio, the product life cycle of many manufacturers (including Magico) is as short as 3 years. Then a new model comes out backed by a glossy marketing campaign (incl: paid reviews) & you want to upgrade. Mind you, not all high end companies are like that. Boulder are a good example of a company with long product life cycles.

    There's always going to be exceptions, but the high end market doesn't apply to the masses for obvious reasons. Much the same way they will always continue making Ferrari's, they market to a certain class of people. They don't need to sell them in numbers like a Ford product. The cheaper the product, the more you have to sell in numbers. Regardless, different classes of people will always have products available to them in any market. If one pays attention though, the class of people that keeps growing, of which most market to, is the lower classes.

    Spinning any disc, cd, SACD, even Blu-ray will eventually all become niche markets if they haven't already. I think 20 years from now you'll look back and see a trail of niche markets, formats that went by the wayside but are still supported by small companies. Vinyl, R2R, cassettes, 8-track, CD's, SACD, laser disc, VCR's, DVD players, the list is already pretty big.

    Product development will always follow the technology advancements....and technology is moving away from physical media. Like John said earlier, nobody wants to have to keep re-buying their physical media every time technology takes a jump.
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    Grant Fidelity tube dac
    B&k 1420
    lsi 9's
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 33,030
    Options
    Freakin' cassettes are comin' back -- I think SACD will continue to do just fine, thank you very much.

    :)

    http://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/remember-how-we-said-cassettes-werent-coming-back.760321/
    https://www.fastcompany.com/3067073/musics-weird-cassette-tape-revival-is-paying-off

    -- or, Don't make me go out and have to buy a 1000ZXL or a Dragon...
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • rooftop59
    rooftop59 Posts: 7,973
    Options
    mhardy6647 wrote: »
    Freakin' cassettes are comin' back -- I think SACD will continue to do just fine, thank you very much.

    :)

    http://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/remember-how-we-said-cassettes-werent-coming-back.760321/
    https://www.fastcompany.com/3067073/musics-weird-cassette-tape-revival-is-paying-off

    -- or, Don't make me go out and have to buy a 1000ZXL or a Dragon...

    Well clearly I am no longer young and hip lol...I hadn't even heard of this trend.
    Living Room 2.2: Usher BE-718 "tiny dancers"; Dual DIY Dayton audio RSS210HF-4 Subs with Dayton SPA-250 amps; Arcam SA30; Musical Fidelity A308; Sony UBP-x1000es; Squeezebox Touch with Bolder Power Supply
    Game Room 5.1.4:     Denon AVR-X4200w; Sony UBP-x700; Definitive Technology Power Monitor 900 mains, CLR-3000 center, StudioMonitor 350 surrounds, ProMonitor 800 atmos x4; Sub - Monoprice Monolith 15in THX Ultra
    Bedroom 2.1    Cambridge Azur 551r; Polk RT25i; ACI Titan Subwoofer
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 32,906
    Options
    lol....poor man's R2R as we used to say.
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    Grant Fidelity tube dac
    B&k 1420
    lsi 9's
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • littlewoodboats
    littlewoodboats Posts: 823
    Options
    tonyb wrote: »
    lol....poor man's R2R as we used to say.

    This, and the simple fact there was not enough room to mount the Revox in the dash of my Toyota.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • erniejade
    erniejade Posts: 6,314
    Options
    littlewoodboats wrote: »
    tonyb wrote: »
    lol....poor man's R2R as we used to say.

    This, and the simple fact there was not enough room to mount the Revox in the dash of my Toyota.

    That's what the trunk is for!

    Klipsch The Nines, Audioquest Thunderbird Interconnect, Innuos Zen MK3 W4S recovery, Revolution Audio Labs USB & Ethernet, Border Patrol SE-I, Audioquest Niagara 5000 & Thunder, Cullen Crossover II PC's.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 33,030
    edited March 2017
    Options
    tonyb wrote: »
    lol....poor man's R2R as we used to say.

    heh -- they even made them there little cassettes with littler reels inside 'em.

    cassettes_1_0.jpg

    When the hipsters go for the reel thing -- I'm ready for 'em.

    16339299011_45bb54abaf_b.jpgDSC_0092 by Mark Hardy, on Flickr
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • erniejade
    erniejade Posts: 6,314
    Options
    I thought after Pulp Fiction R2R would have started to make a comeback but, I guess not.
    Klipsch The Nines, Audioquest Thunderbird Interconnect, Innuos Zen MK3 W4S recovery, Revolution Audio Labs USB & Ethernet, Border Patrol SE-I, Audioquest Niagara 5000 & Thunder, Cullen Crossover II PC's.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 33,030
    Options
    DSkip wrote: »
    Hipsters will never go for R2R. The music selection is too limited for that. Cassettes and vinyl have a vast array of musical selections and meet that nostalgia that they don't know why they have.

    Probably true -- there's not as much opportunity for obsessive tweaking in reel to reel decks (at least in the "amateur" division) that there is for playin' rekkids.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter