Before and After with Mr Andrew Jones

msg · June 2016

DSkip wrote: »

Another also is to remember that sometimes it takes those woofers hundreds of hours to really break in. It took the Mini X around 160 hours to really hit their stride with the woofers

Victor, back to this note Skip made early on - how much time do you have on them now? Might this still be break-in related?

Second consideration - do you think maybe you're listening yourself in circles at this point? You've been at it pretty hard lately. Maybe you need to take a little break, and come back fresh. Could be hypersensitized now.

From your notes above, it does sound like AJ had some setup tricks in play, wrt placement, treatments and maybe some other stuff. Is AJ accessible on the forums at all?

This is tough, man, I hate the frustration of these types of situations. I'm kind of inclined to agree with the sub recommendation if the speakers aren't getting you there. Would you rather give up the new found detail for some bottom end? Do you know anyone with a sub you could test out just to see if it gets you back to where you want to be? If you're getting smoother, fuller mids and more pleasing detail than with the 70's, I'd have a hard time going back, personally.

I know this goes without saying, but careful with your sale of the 70's if you're that unsure about the 5's. Right now, you're only out a center. If you can hang on to the 70's for a bit, maybe stash them until you get more time on the 5's, and maybe try that sub option.

Feeling your frustration, man.
Remember though? Even your girl noticed the UB5's sounded great and told you to make the change. Could be something simple. Your cabling is all straight? Got any manual terminations that could be incorrect? Any other changes go down when you did the speaker swap?

erniejade · June 2016

Witch speakers do you like the mids snd highs better?

halo · June 2016

erniejade wrote: »

Witch speakers do you like the mids snd highs better?

That award goes to the UF5 by a slim margin. It has presented details that I'd not noticed on the RC-70 speakers and the RC-70 were bringing out details I've not heard in any of my other set ups prior to these. I'm willing to bet that if ELAC were to come out with a UF6, I'd be home free. lol.

Ern, I run into the same problem with bass thumping in the hallway or bedroom but not in the MLP. It's SO WEIRD!

So, would acoustic room treatments solve this issue? Treatments vs a sub, I'd rather have my speakers producing the bass and not a separate sub that has to integrate into the set up (which can be challenging). Room treatments treat the biggest influence on the sound quality which is the way the set up interacts with the room, no?

erniejade · June 2016

One day I can bring my velodyne spl1200 over. This month is shot but around mid July I should have some time. Unless someone closer to you has or, you can find a place that will do a "weekend in home trial". Out by me in Woodridge, we have a place called Holm audio and they offer a weekend in home trial.

madmax · June 2016

That is a small sub, a 10" would be good as well. Thing is, you are probably not after "subwoofer sound" beating you in the chest which is where most audiophiles go wrong in choosing a sub. Then they complain how hard it it to integrate and can never make it sound seamless. Kind of like wanting a little more power for your sports car so you install a 500hp beastly motor the complain you can't keep the tires planted when accelerating or going around curves. The best results come from something small enough to make your mains sound correct with no noticeable sound coming from the sub itself. It really takes very little energy to do that.

madmax · June 2016

Check this one out. http://www.svsound.com/products/sb-1000 Would be better for a big room but still not overkill. Sealed design is probably what you want for music.

ken brydson · June 2016

madmax wrote: »

Check this one out. http://www.svsound.com/products/sb-1000 Would be better for a big room but still not overkill. Sealed design is probably what you want for music.

$50 off one in the outlet center...

http://www.svsound.com/collections/outlet-specials/products/sb-1000-black-ash-outlet-1253

mikeyb128 · June 2016

I had a similar problem as you. Moved my focals into the basement and have had a problem of no bass, yet upstairs on my main level, it sounds like they are pounding bass. I have been tweaking them for months, and have come to the conclusion, I would rather move them away from the walls and have superb imaging/3D soundstage and a butt load of detail. I have only just got them dialed completely in after 6 months of tweaking. I use an SVS SB 1000 to handle the loss of bass, the system sounds fantastic with this sub, it's small and very easy to hide. I have extensive room treatments in my basement, and still had troubles with bass, I've realized it's just a difficult, oddly shaped room. I almost regret moving them from my living room which I now know was blessed with great bass, imaging, and detail, and I basically just plopped the speaker down and played music.

I think if you pull the speakers out so they are slightly in front of your rack, you will get more imaging. Also a minimum of 100 hours of break in will help. I wouldn't lose hope on them yet.

halo · June 2016

mikeyb128 wrote: »

I had a similar problem as you. Moved my focals into the basement and have had a problem of no bass, yet upstairs on my main level, it sounds like they are pounding bass. I have been tweaking them for months, and have come to the conclusion, I would rather move them away from the walls and have superb imaging/3D soundstage and a butt load of detail. I have only just got them dialed completely in after 6 months of tweaking. I use an SVS SB 1000 to handle the loss of bass, the system sounds fantastic with this sub, it's small and very easy to hide. I have extensive room treatments in my basement, and still had troubles with bass, I've realized it's just a difficult, oddly shaped room. I almost regret moving them from my living room which I now know was blessed with great bass, imaging, and detail, and I basically just plopped the speaker down and played music.

I think if you pull the speakers out so they are slightly in front of your rack, you will get more imaging. Also a minimum of 100 hours of break in will help. I wouldn't lose hope on them yet.

Thank you for the detailed reply. I don't really have any issues with their imaging or detail or resolution. That part is great. It's the bass response issue that I'm struggling with right now.

halo · June 2016

ken brydson wrote: »

madmax wrote: »

Check this one out. http://www.svsound.com/products/sb-1000 Would be better for a big room but still not overkill. Sealed design is probably what you want for music.

$50 off one in the outlet center...

http://www.svsound.com/collections/outlet-specials/products/sb-1000-black-ash-outlet-1253

That sub is $500 regular price and I'm not looking to spend extra money right now.

This is totally going in the wrong direction.

madmax · June 2016

Maybe time for a changing of livingroom layout?

msg · June 2016

halo wrote: »

This is totally going in the wrong direction.

yeah, you should probably just quit altogether, before it's too late.

madmax · June 2016

I'm afraid we are just frustrating halo more than helping.

But, here is a thought. (and I'm not talking sub here, you said you didn't want one at this time) People do this with subs to find a good position for the sub (and also to understand their room better). Take one of the floor standers, place it at the seating position while playing something with a lot of bass. Walk around the room and see where the bass is best. This is where your speakers want to be. Who knows, maybe that position could be accomidated for. And if not, you could move the speaker to another possible seating position and see if a good speaker position exists.

Or, maybe you have a room like my old livingroom that looked as if there were no possible solutions, and really wasn't.

halo · June 2016

madmax wrote: »

I'm afraid we are just frustrating halo more than helping.

But, here is a thought. (and I'm not talking sub here, you said you didn't want one at this time) People do this with subs to find a good position for the sub (and also to understand their room better). Take one of the floor standers, place it at the seating position while playing something with a lot of bass. Walk around the room and see where the bass is best. This is where your speakers want to be. Who knows, maybe that position could be accomidated for. And if not, you could move the speaker to another possible seating position and see if a good speaker position exists.

Or, maybe you have a room like my old livingroom that looked as if there were no possible solutions, and really wasn't.

Thank you Max, this post was very helpful! I appreciate it!

erniejade · June 2016

@madmax moving the speaker to the listening position is same thing I said to yesterday at the top of the page but, when doing this you need to try to put yourself in close to sitting position as possible when you hear the bass go up or down. If your room is anything like mine is, standing will give you one sound in the bottom end and sitting position might make it disappear. It drove me crazy untill I figured out I needed to move myself down some closer to listening position.

A couple of years ago, I walked the room found where the bass sounded wonderful and completely changed my room around only to find out when I sat down, the bass disappeared. Talk about frustrating! !!

msg · June 2016

wondering at the off chance of a wiring error internally?
worth the time?

lightman1 · June 2016

I met Brian the other day. His head is lopsided. Meaning his ears are about 180 degrees out of phase.
My .02

erniejade · June 2016

@lightman1 next thing you will be saying is my hair makes my booty look big.

@msg good point on a possibt outof phase driver.

halo · June 2016

erniejade wrote: »

@madmax moving the speaker to the listening position is same thing I said to yesterday at the top of the page but, when doing this you need to try to put yourself in close to sitting position as possible when you hear the bass go up or down. If your room is anything like mine is, standing will give you one sound in the bottom end and sitting position might make it disappear. It drove me crazy untill I figured out I needed to move myself down some closer to listening position.

A couple of years ago, I walked the room found where the bass sounded wonderful and completely changed my room around only to find out when I sat down, the bass disappeared. Talk about frustrating! !!

Well, I'm a wheelchair user so I'm sitting in the same "listening" spot no matter where I am in the room but I appreciate the advice. That had to be a pain to rearrange everything in and of itself.

erniejade · June 2016

It was beyond frustrating! It made me hate the room even more that is for sure!! GIK said beside the giant 6.5 foot bass suck-out that I have ( a cutout in the wall) a room that is too square with the celling basically the same height as the room itself can have a tendency to do this. Actually GIK was very helpful and honest and did not try to sell me a bunch of stuff that I could not use.

madmax · June 2016

DSkip wrote: »

I am in the market for a new home and trying hard to avoid this type of predicament. I'm ruling out houses based off dimensions of possible listening spaces before I ever look at them.

Thats what I did when I picked out the new house. Do you have a room calculator for sound?

I didn't realize the idea of putting the speaker in the listening position had already been proposed. Good hint on sitting down at the location, I wouldn't have thought of that!

halo · June 2016

Well, I haven't exactly been thrilled with the UF5 speakers. The more I listen to them, the more disappointed I am. I sent an email to ELAC America a few days back requesting a return.

They responded to my email and then they called me back to ask what was going on and asked if they could help. Long story short, they are exchanging the UF5 for the UB5 and, with the credit from the UF5, I can look into a small, musical, sub that will deliver the bottom end. The concentric driver is the same and I can set the bookies out from the wall and toe them in to get the best top end & midrange performance while the sub will give just the right amount of authority in the lower registers.

A HUGE thank you goes out to ELAC and their Customer Support/Customer Service team. Their primary concern is that they want me to be happy with the speakers. Some people have been complaining about their CS on the AVS forum but I am a very happy camper at the moment.

So, I'll put the sub in the MLP and roll around the room to see where the bass is most prominent and put the sub in that location? = sub crawl?

Thanks everybody for your input and suggestions! Very truly appreciated!

lightman1 · June 2016

Make sure it has the green drivers.
Top marks to ELAC for working with you. Guess they figured that they shouldn't jerk anybody around at this point.
I'll be starting the music/HT room soon. Careful attention will be paid to no funny reflections and corner loading.
Have at it, Vic!

erniejade · June 2016

Yep put the sub where you would normally sit and go around the room and see where it peaks or sounds best / musical to you. It helps dial it in quite nicely. Some rooms will have more then one spot and the bass sound can actually change depending on where it is. Example one might be louder but sound boomy instead of musical.

axiomaudio.com/subwoofercrawl

erniejade · June 2016

DSkip wrote: »

I am in the market for a new home and trying hard to avoid this type of predicament. I'm ruling out houses based off dimensions of possible listening spaces before I ever look at them.

Now that is a dedicated audio person!

halo · June 2016

Thanks guys!

madmax · June 2016

Having put in a lot of time on researching subs lately for the LS50 setup I think the $500 SVS sub linked somewhere above is a winner. If I come across something more interesting in that price range I will mention it.

halo · June 2016

madmax wrote: »

Having put in a lot of time on researching subs lately for the LS50 setup I think the $500 SVS sub linked somewhere above is a winner. If I come across something more interesting in that price range I will mention it.

Thanks Max. I know that REL subs are highly regarded for being musical. The SVS that I owned wasn't particularly musical (I had a 20-39 PCi).

Being that I'm in an apartment, and likely will be again the next time we move, a small sub is all i'm going to need or be able to justify.

I don't want to be rattling the fillings out of my neighbors teeth. I'll have to keep it low enough to enhance the music without simultaneously shaking the foundation.

I know @SCompRacer is using NHT subs but I don't know the co$t. $500 is a little beyond my budget.

Anything from HSU any good for music?

Please keep me informed if you find any subs that may fit the bill.

EndersShadow · June 2016

what sub to recommend depends on room size. Large room needs a decent large sub or multiple small subs to make sure it is covered.

Some brands to look at are the normal HSU, Outlaw, SVS all are decent for music. REL is awesome for music but pricey.

madmax · June 2016

The 20-39 is exactly what you don't want for music. Go with a sealed sub.

Before and After with Mr Andrew Jones

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