bass help for 2Bs

I was listening to some live streaming Grateful Dead running from my computer to my Yamaha rx-665 but then through my Dynaco pre/amp. It's a bit convoluted but it's what I do. This time I noticed Phil Lesh's bass was thundering way more than usual more than likely a Wall Of Sound show. Reason was I did not audio mute my h/t system with my sub included as I usually do. I dropped the h/t out of the equation and my 2Bs just sounded like the bass just wasn't as it should be for a fully modded set compared against the stand alone sub. Is my sub, a powered 8" Klipsch all that and goes much deeper or is am I missing something on the Polks ?
Fully modded w/ the exception of the coil inductors I think there called.
2chl- Adcom GFA- 555-Onkyo P-3150v pre/amp- JVC-QL-A200 tt- Denon 1940 ci cdp- Adcom GFS-6 -Modded '87 SDA 2Bs - Dynamat Ext.- BH-5- X-Overs VR-3, RDO-194 tweeters, Larry's Rings, Speakon/Neutrik I/C- Cherry stain tops Advent Maestros,Ohm model E

H/T- Toshiba au40" flat- Yamaha RX- V665 avr- YSD-11 Dock- I-Pod- Klipsch #400HD Speaker set-

Bdrm- Nikko 6065 receiver- JBL -G-200s--Pioneer 305 headphones--Sony CE375-5 disc

Comments

  • heiney9heiney9 Posts: 24,137
    Many times the output of subs is too high, giving the impression there is more bass because it's playing louder. How do you calibrate the sub so it plays at the same level of output as the 2B's?

    Calibration is a very fine balance and a sub playing even just 2dB higher could make it seem like the sub is putting out more bass than the 2B's.

    Of course we know nothing about how you have them set-up and located.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass

    Pass Aleph 30 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Plus DAC | MIT Shotgun S3 | MIT Z P/C's | updated SDA 1C| SQ Box Touch/Welbourne Labs P/S- Tubes add soul!
  • NightfallNightfall Posts: 9,053
    How close are the SDAs to the rear wall? Check phase?
    afterburnt wrote: »
    They didn't speak a word of English, they were from South Carolina.

    Village Idiot of Club Polk
  • amb426amb1amb426amb1 Posts: 149
    The large SDA inductors made the biggest improvement is bass for me when modifying a pair of 2.3tl's. Used the super Q iron core units with very good results. That said, I think you will always hear a significant shift in two channel audio when adding a power sub. Guess it's all about preference but I only use a powered sub in HT listening and prefer music without.
  • heiney9heiney9 Posts: 24,137
    SDA's don't need a sub for music if they are set up properly and driven properly.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass

    Pass Aleph 30 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Plus DAC | MIT Shotgun S3 | MIT Z P/C's | updated SDA 1C| SQ Box Touch/Welbourne Labs P/S- Tubes add soul!
  • leftwinger57leftwinger57 Posts: 2,918
    H,I agree and never thought the 2Bs should even need any help and should always win out but boy I was wrong, The sub re positioned and connected by a double braided coax and compression fittings got really dialed in. Also added in the mix which I just got last month was the Boss ground loop insolater which completely took the annoying minor hum I was getting from the run of siamese coax, about a 35' run. My 2Bs are 18'' off the front wall and are more opened up sound stagecjra9mtgw1k9.jpg
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    stage wise because of the open Stanus rack. Volume at the time for the H/T was pretty high but not anywhere near my clipping level. I'll show some pics.My powered sub was never intended to work w/ the 2-chl systm it just happened today when I forgot to mute the Klipschs. Originally xoverd at 80hz and when moved increased both phase and vloume. The sub is under the lamp table to my left.
    2chl- Adcom GFA- 555-Onkyo P-3150v pre/amp- JVC-QL-A200 tt- Denon 1940 ci cdp- Adcom GFS-6 -Modded '87 SDA 2Bs - Dynamat Ext.- BH-5- X-Overs VR-3, RDO-194 tweeters, Larry's Rings, Speakon/Neutrik I/C- Cherry stain tops Advent Maestros,Ohm model E

    H/T- Toshiba au40" flat- Yamaha RX- V665 avr- YSD-11 Dock- I-Pod- Klipsch #400HD Speaker set-

    Bdrm- Nikko 6065 receiver- JBL -G-200s--Pioneer 305 headphones--Sony CE375-5 disc
  • amb426amb1amb426amb1 Posts: 149
    If I understand correctly you have 2b's 18 inches off wall? They really need to be more like 5-7 niches for your bass to be at its Best. Would really help to couple speakers to hard wood floor by way of spikes.
  • pitdogg2pitdogg2 Posts: 16,575
    amb426amb1 wrote: »
    If I understand correctly you have 2b's 18 inches off wall? They really need to be more like 5-7 niches for your bass to be at its Best. Would really help to couple speakers to hard wood floor by way of spikes.
    Yes ^^^^
  • NightfallNightfall Posts: 9,053
    Mine are 17.5" from the rear wall (otherwise they'd be behind the plane of my Salamander and TV) and I get incredible bass if the song dictates it.
    afterburnt wrote: »
    They didn't speak a word of English, they were from South Carolina.

    Village Idiot of Club Polk
  • leftwinger57leftwinger57 Posts: 2,918
    Mine were originally way more deeper/closer to the the front wall. I then moved them up when my rack changed. I thought we took a poll a few months/years ago about spacing from the front wall. Most iirc were 12'' or over and in my case I have forced hot water heater pans that extend out of that particular wall and then I needed more space to open them up on the sides. Believe me, I've seen a lot worse SDA set-ups than mine (way tighter spreads,reflective crap or no treatments in the room,or not modded) and I still don't get all out of them because of the 3 foot side wall clearance deal. Spikes I tried doing alone, not the thing to do w/ 80lb speakers and tight spacing and 2 blown rotator cuffs. They were all drilled and all the sleeves are still in them but for now covered up by bigger button sliders. When some company comes over I can revisit spiking and placing them on the protection discs. Maybe it was just that particular show, volume of the 2chll and adding in the powered sub at a higher level not usually on just got to me.
    2chl- Adcom GFA- 555-Onkyo P-3150v pre/amp- JVC-QL-A200 tt- Denon 1940 ci cdp- Adcom GFS-6 -Modded '87 SDA 2Bs - Dynamat Ext.- BH-5- X-Overs VR-3, RDO-194 tweeters, Larry's Rings, Speakon/Neutrik I/C- Cherry stain tops Advent Maestros,Ohm model E

    H/T- Toshiba au40" flat- Yamaha RX- V665 avr- YSD-11 Dock- I-Pod- Klipsch #400HD Speaker set-

    Bdrm- Nikko 6065 receiver- JBL -G-200s--Pioneer 305 headphones--Sony CE375-5 disc
  • westmassguywestmassguy Posts: 6,657
    Lew, as @heiney9 pointed out, the sub was adding additional bass, most likely on top of what the 2Bs were already producing. If your setup didn't roll off the 2Bs at the same frequency the subwoofer is set for, the bass will be disproportionally loud.
    We can do the Sub Bass Drive Inductors at some point if you want. All 3rd, 4th and 5th generation SDAs, with equal number or stereo and dimensional drivers, will benefit greatly from the low resistance Inductors. The caveat of course, is the 2Bs will no longer be 6 ohm, they'll be 4 ohm nominal. Your Adcom will handle them easily though.
    BTW, the 8" sub is more than likely not going any deeper than the 2Bs do by themselves.
    Home Theater/2 Channel:
    Front: SDA-2ATL forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/143984/my-2as-finally-finished-almost/p1
    Center: Custom Built forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/150760/my-center-channel-project/p1
    Surrounds & Rears: Custom Built forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/151647/my-surround-project/p1
    Sonicaps, Mills, RDO-194s-198s, Dynamat, Hurricane Nuts, Blackhole5
    Pioneer Elite VSX-72TXV, Carver PM-600, SVS PB2-Plus Subwoofer
    Cables: Speaker: Furez 10/2 with GLS Locking Banana Plugs
    Interconnect: Furez 10/2 with SpeakONs
    ICs: Custom Furez by Douglas Connections
    Den:
    Bose 901 Series II Continentals Restored, Re-Built Equalizer with Elna Silmic IIs, Sonicaps, and Silver Mica Caps
    Carver CT-3 Pre, Carver C-500

    dhsspeakerservice.com/
    Exclusive Distributor of Gimpod's Custom SDA Circuit Boards

    "And keep her under 70, would you, huh? Betty likes a slow ride"
  • leftwinger57leftwinger57 Posts: 2,918
    Dave, as usual that makes the most sense. Again I started to get over thinking nutty about something I could control or not. I'm not displeased w/ the the bass throw as my weeping appears but this just took me by surprise. Thanks...

    BTW the M7s sound terrific after the amount of hours I've put into them.
    2chl- Adcom GFA- 555-Onkyo P-3150v pre/amp- JVC-QL-A200 tt- Denon 1940 ci cdp- Adcom GFS-6 -Modded '87 SDA 2Bs - Dynamat Ext.- BH-5- X-Overs VR-3, RDO-194 tweeters, Larry's Rings, Speakon/Neutrik I/C- Cherry stain tops Advent Maestros,Ohm model E

    H/T- Toshiba au40" flat- Yamaha RX- V665 avr- YSD-11 Dock- I-Pod- Klipsch #400HD Speaker set-

    Bdrm- Nikko 6065 receiver- JBL -G-200s--Pioneer 305 headphones--Sony CE375-5 disc
  • westmassguywestmassguy Posts: 6,657
    Glad to hear Lew.
    Like I said, if at some point in the future, you want to do the Inductors, we'll work something out as we always do.
    Home Theater/2 Channel:
    Front: SDA-2ATL forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/143984/my-2as-finally-finished-almost/p1
    Center: Custom Built forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/150760/my-center-channel-project/p1
    Surrounds & Rears: Custom Built forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/151647/my-surround-project/p1
    Sonicaps, Mills, RDO-194s-198s, Dynamat, Hurricane Nuts, Blackhole5
    Pioneer Elite VSX-72TXV, Carver PM-600, SVS PB2-Plus Subwoofer
    Cables: Speaker: Furez 10/2 with GLS Locking Banana Plugs
    Interconnect: Furez 10/2 with SpeakONs
    ICs: Custom Furez by Douglas Connections
    Den:
    Bose 901 Series II Continentals Restored, Re-Built Equalizer with Elna Silmic IIs, Sonicaps, and Silver Mica Caps
    Carver CT-3 Pre, Carver C-500

    dhsspeakerservice.com/
    Exclusive Distributor of Gimpod's Custom SDA Circuit Boards

    "And keep her under 70, would you, huh? Betty likes a slow ride"
  • F1nutF1nut Posts: 44,704
    I thought we took a poll a few months/years ago about spacing from the front wall. Most iirc were 12'' or over

    I don't know about any poll on the matter, but 5 to 6 inches is the norm. 12" is too far away.

    I just listened to a pair of modded 2BTL's driven by a he-man Musical Fidelity integrated amp the other day. The speakers were 5" off the back wall and spiked. The bass was amazing.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


    President of Club Polk

  • leftwinger57leftwinger57 Posts: 2,918
    Jesse going back a few inches is no problem but then my spacing on the open sides issue would get worse and be more closed in. Like I said before I can also revisit spiking but w/ help, not for me to even try positioning alone. I'll just tear up my floors.
    2chl- Adcom GFA- 555-Onkyo P-3150v pre/amp- JVC-QL-A200 tt- Denon 1940 ci cdp- Adcom GFS-6 -Modded '87 SDA 2Bs - Dynamat Ext.- BH-5- X-Overs VR-3, RDO-194 tweeters, Larry's Rings, Speakon/Neutrik I/C- Cherry stain tops Advent Maestros,Ohm model E

    H/T- Toshiba au40" flat- Yamaha RX- V665 avr- YSD-11 Dock- I-Pod- Klipsch #400HD Speaker set-

    Bdrm- Nikko 6065 receiver- JBL -G-200s--Pioneer 305 headphones--Sony CE375-5 disc
  • machonemachone Posts: 1,237
    What you need is a LPSJMT.
    Low-Profile-Speaker-Jack-Mover-Thing :D
    Mojo Audio Illuminati v3>>Quantum Byte w/LMS>>Rpi/PiCoreplayer>> Starlight 7 USB >> Mojo Audio Mystique v2 SE>>ModWright SWL 9.0 SE Signature>>Hafler DH-500 Amp+ (Musical Concepts Fully Modded)>>
    SRS 2.3TL (Fully Modded)...Velodyne Optimum 8 subwoofer
    1KVA Dreadnought

    Marantz SA 8005
    Pioneer PLX-1000 Turntable - Shure SC35C/N35X - V15III/VN35HE
    Yamaha TX-540 Tuner...Sony BDP-S570
    Sony PS4

    Separate subpanel with four dedicated 20 amp circuits.
    1. Amplification 2. Analog 3. Digital 4. Video

    "All THAT IS LOST FROM THE SOURCE IS LOST FOREVER"
  • leftwinger57leftwinger57 Posts: 2,918
    What the hell is that.. I don't have 900lb Von Schweikert monster speakers. I just need another hand or 2 because of the tightness of spacing and the loss of strength due to operations. I picked on these speakers because I did see these things at a dude's house selling C/L stuff. I'm not buying anything else especially for a 1or 2 time use thing. Rumor has it P-Man might be making a summer appearance at my house so maybe then if he comes I'll consider doing it, which after all is said and done 1 still have a nice set of sounding speakers.
    Machone, I am interested since you did do the bass inductor coils what difference or how much of a difference in bass response is there ? Some what noticeable or night and day no comparison noticeable ? I just realized we have 2 different models but let me know.


    http://www.vonschweikert.com/#!vr-9se-mkii/xb2a1
    2chl- Adcom GFA- 555-Onkyo P-3150v pre/amp- JVC-QL-A200 tt- Denon 1940 ci cdp- Adcom GFS-6 -Modded '87 SDA 2Bs - Dynamat Ext.- BH-5- X-Overs VR-3, RDO-194 tweeters, Larry's Rings, Speakon/Neutrik I/C- Cherry stain tops Advent Maestros,Ohm model E

    H/T- Toshiba au40" flat- Yamaha RX- V665 avr- YSD-11 Dock- I-Pod- Klipsch #400HD Speaker set-

    Bdrm- Nikko 6065 receiver- JBL -G-200s--Pioneer 305 headphones--Sony CE375-5 disc
  • machonemachone Posts: 1,237
    Just kidding about the mover thing. It would be nice though. I got my spikes today but I am not installing them because I am remodeling the room and constantly need to move things around.
    I rebuilt the xovers at the same time I changed the inductors so I cannot comment.
    Mojo Audio Illuminati v3>>Quantum Byte w/LMS>>Rpi/PiCoreplayer>> Starlight 7 USB >> Mojo Audio Mystique v2 SE>>ModWright SWL 9.0 SE Signature>>Hafler DH-500 Amp+ (Musical Concepts Fully Modded)>>
    SRS 2.3TL (Fully Modded)...Velodyne Optimum 8 subwoofer
    1KVA Dreadnought

    Marantz SA 8005
    Pioneer PLX-1000 Turntable - Shure SC35C/N35X - V15III/VN35HE
    Yamaha TX-540 Tuner...Sony BDP-S570
    Sony PS4

    Separate subpanel with four dedicated 20 amp circuits.
    1. Amplification 2. Analog 3. Digital 4. Video

    "All THAT IS LOST FROM THE SOURCE IS LOST FOREVER"
  • lawdogglawdogg Posts: 376
    What size is your room?
    <3 my 3.1TLs

    I will fix your shifted magnets for free. :)
  • machonemachone Posts: 1,237
    18.5 ft x 21 ft x 9.5 ft
    Mojo Audio Illuminati v3>>Quantum Byte w/LMS>>Rpi/PiCoreplayer>> Starlight 7 USB >> Mojo Audio Mystique v2 SE>>ModWright SWL 9.0 SE Signature>>Hafler DH-500 Amp+ (Musical Concepts Fully Modded)>>
    SRS 2.3TL (Fully Modded)...Velodyne Optimum 8 subwoofer
    1KVA Dreadnought

    Marantz SA 8005
    Pioneer PLX-1000 Turntable - Shure SC35C/N35X - V15III/VN35HE
    Yamaha TX-540 Tuner...Sony BDP-S570
    Sony PS4

    Separate subpanel with four dedicated 20 amp circuits.
    1. Amplification 2. Analog 3. Digital 4. Video

    "All THAT IS LOST FROM THE SOURCE IS LOST FOREVER"
  • leftwinger57leftwinger57 Posts: 2,918
    Don't know exactly who your referring to here. So my living room is 18'x15'x10' ceiling. It does open to my dinning room and there is a hall leading away so it's not a tight buttoned up room per se'. I do have rugs and a puffy couch so reflections are not a problem.
    2chl- Adcom GFA- 555-Onkyo P-3150v pre/amp- JVC-QL-A200 tt- Denon 1940 ci cdp- Adcom GFS-6 -Modded '87 SDA 2Bs - Dynamat Ext.- BH-5- X-Overs VR-3, RDO-194 tweeters, Larry's Rings, Speakon/Neutrik I/C- Cherry stain tops Advent Maestros,Ohm model E

    H/T- Toshiba au40" flat- Yamaha RX- V665 avr- YSD-11 Dock- I-Pod- Klipsch #400HD Speaker set-

    Bdrm- Nikko 6065 receiver- JBL -G-200s--Pioneer 305 headphones--Sony CE375-5 disc
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