Let me have it....tell me I'm crazy....but I use Romex 12/2 for speaker cable

ApexproApexpro Posts: 97
And if anything the bass sounds tighter than any twisted cables I've ever tried. Granted I haven't spent $1,000 on cables. So why am I nuts?
- Please don't clean up my mess. You'll only confuse me.

APC 1500, Furman Rack Rider, Cambridge Audio Dac Magic Plus, Parasound P/HP 850, Adcom GTP-880, Luxman M-300, Threshold 400A Cascode, McIntosh MC2505, MC2205, MR-71, MX-113, Sony TA-3200F, Tascam 112 MKII, Sony TC-D5 Pro, Tascam CD-200, Thorens TD-147, Kenwood KT-5500, Kenwood KT-7500, Realistic Minimus Sevens, Behringer MS40s, Boston Acoustics A40s, JBL 830Ts, 'Double' Advent Loudspeakers, Klipsch KSW12 sub, Bose 901s, Polk SDA 2s, Polk SDA 1Cs
Post edited by Apexpro on
«13456

Comments

  • fluffyfluffy Posts: 71
    edited August 2014
    somebody did a test once where they used coat hangers instead of wire and most people couldnt tell the difference.
  • agfrostagfrost Posts: 2,318
    edited August 2014
    fluffy wrote: »
    somebody did a test once where they used coat hangers instead of wire and most people couldnt tell the difference.

    I call BS. When they had to throw their coats on the floor, they knew what was up.
    Jay
    SDA 2BTL * Musical Fidelity A5cr amp * Marantz DV-9500 * Modded Adcom GDA-600 DAC * Rythmik F8 (x2)
    Micro Seiki DQ-50 * A hodgepodge of cabling * Belkin PF60
    Preamp rotation: Krell KSL (SCompRacer recapped) * Manley Shrimp * PS Audio 5.0
  • cfrizzcfrizz Posts: 13,420
    edited August 2014
    So long as your ears enjoy the sound it doesn't matter what anyone else thinks about it.
    Marantz AV-7705 PrePro, Classé 5 ch. 200wpc Amp, Oppo 103 BluRay, Rotel RCD-1072 CDP, Sony Bravia KDL-40R510C TV, Polk S60 Main Speakers, Boston VR-920 Center Channel, SVS NSD-12 SB12 Subwoofer, Polk DSW 400 Subwoofer, Polk FXi-3 Surround Speakers
  • nspindelnspindel Posts: 5,346
    edited August 2014
    And now for something totally new and different, a month-long member with 20 posts is starting what is basically an "expensive cables don't matter" thread...
    Good music, a good source, and good power can make SDA's sing. Tubes make them dance.
  • ApexproApexpro Posts: 97
    edited August 2014
    Am I that predictable? Enlighten me. :) --- or does this subject have a history of bringing out the worst in people? If so just ignore me. I'm a new member here, true. But I've been into higher end audio since the 70s.
    - Please don't clean up my mess. You'll only confuse me.

    APC 1500, Furman Rack Rider, Cambridge Audio Dac Magic Plus, Parasound P/HP 850, Adcom GTP-880, Luxman M-300, Threshold 400A Cascode, McIntosh MC2505, MC2205, MR-71, MX-113, Sony TA-3200F, Tascam 112 MKII, Sony TC-D5 Pro, Tascam CD-200, Thorens TD-147, Kenwood KT-5500, Kenwood KT-7500, Realistic Minimus Sevens, Behringer MS40s, Boston Acoustics A40s, JBL 830Ts, 'Double' Advent Loudspeakers, Klipsch KSW12 sub, Bose 901s, Polk SDA 2s, Polk SDA 1Cs
  • nspindelnspindel Posts: 5,346
    edited August 2014
    You're not exactly a trail blazer.
    Good music, a good source, and good power can make SDA's sing. Tubes make them dance.
  • ApexproApexpro Posts: 97
    edited August 2014
    I looked through the threads and didn't see any empirical evidence. I'm open minded. Show me the numbers.

    EDIT: I'm not looking for an argument, I promise. I get enough of that at home.
    - Please don't clean up my mess. You'll only confuse me.

    APC 1500, Furman Rack Rider, Cambridge Audio Dac Magic Plus, Parasound P/HP 850, Adcom GTP-880, Luxman M-300, Threshold 400A Cascode, McIntosh MC2505, MC2205, MR-71, MX-113, Sony TA-3200F, Tascam 112 MKII, Sony TC-D5 Pro, Tascam CD-200, Thorens TD-147, Kenwood KT-5500, Kenwood KT-7500, Realistic Minimus Sevens, Behringer MS40s, Boston Acoustics A40s, JBL 830Ts, 'Double' Advent Loudspeakers, Klipsch KSW12 sub, Bose 901s, Polk SDA 2s, Polk SDA 1Cs
  • thsmiththsmith Posts: 6,092
    edited August 2014
    Oh lord, here we go again.

    Show me the beef.

    OP must be untrainable if being into higher end audio since the 70s and still dont get it or definition of higher end audio is a home theater in a box.
    Speakers: SDA-1C (most all the goodies)
    Preamp: Joule Electra LA-150 MKII SE
    Amp: Wright WPA 50-50 EAT KT88s
    Analog: Marantz TT-15S1 MBS Glider SL| Wright WPP100C Amperex BB 6er5 and 7316 & WPM-100 SUT
    Digital: Mac mini 2.3GHz dual-core i5 8g RAM 1.5 TB HDD Music Server Amarra (memory play) - USB - W4S DAC 2
    Cables: Mits S3 IC and Spk cables| PS Audio PCs
  • nspindelnspindel Posts: 5,346
    edited August 2014
    I swear, it's got to be the same guy who keeps re-joining with a new email address just to have this discussion over and over and over again.
    Good music, a good source, and good power can make SDA's sing. Tubes make them dance.
  • nspindelnspindel Posts: 5,346
    edited August 2014
    From another thread:
    Apexpro wrote: »
    I had a good friend - Don Boone, rest his soul, who was an EE and sound engineer and owned a company that wired theaters; from high school auditoriums to our $65million preforming arts center. Don had $tens of thousands invested in equipment to sonically map rooms and test sound in every form known to man.

    One weekend we decided to use his array of equipment to test speaker wire. Don already knew the answer, but he humored me. Back in the mid/late 1980s I'd spent literally 80+ hours hand winding speaker wire when it was in fashion to braid wires to eliminate all sorts of demonic electrical crosstalk that 'ruined the sound of quality speakers'. Neither our ears or his equipment - that could measure way beyond what a human can hear - could detect the slightest bit of difference in my creations, Monster cable, twisted copper speaker wire from Radio Shack, and solid copper wire (as long as the gauge was sufficient to carry the current over the distance). We used his McIntosh amp and my Polk SDA 2s for the test.

    Since that day I've used 12/2 Romex...12ga. annealed solid copper wire. It's a bit difficult to work with, it needs to be hidden since it's bright yellow, but it carries a great signal and even in today's metals market you can buy it for about $1 a foot. Cheaper in larger quantities. And every time I see that wire, or re-tell this I think of Don and the valuable lesson he took the time to teach me.

    Imagine that, he's got an engineer friend with billions of dollars worth of equipment who says cables don't matter.
    Good music, a good source, and good power can make SDA's sing. Tubes make them dance.
  • SpeedskaterSpeedskater Posts: 497
    edited August 2014
    An even better speaker cable is Romex®(Non Metallic) 14/3 +ground. Connect the Red & Black for one lead and the White and bare for the other. This gives an 11AWG wire and 14/3 is twisted not flat. But it's very stiff and very ugly.
  • leftwinger57leftwinger57 Posts: 2,918
    edited August 2014
    With that very expensive sig of yours I don't believe it. Yes it will carry a signal sh$t it's used for 110v, so low voltage should make it's way through. But again w/ all that gear why not go w/ something that's at the very least more flexible, easier to camo and purpose made. I'm not in the $100 a foot club for speaker wires or I/Cs but I did go from my world famous 14 gu clear to Blue Jeans 10gu. Belden for the Polks 12 gauge of differeent brands for my other sets and Signal Cable and Blue Jeans 1mt I/Cs.
    2chl- Adcom GFA- 555-Onkyo P-3150v pre/amp- JVC-QL-A200 tt- Denon 1940 ci cdp- Adcom GFS-6 -Modded '87 SDA 2Bs - Dynamat Ext.- BH-5- X-Overs VR-3, RDO-194 tweeters, Larry's Rings, Speakon/Neutrik I/C- Cherry stain tops Advent Maestros,Ohm model E

    H/T- Toshiba au40" flat- Yamaha RX- V665 avr- YSD-11 Dock- I-Pod- Klipsch #400HD Speaker set-

    Bdrm- Nikko 6065 receiver- JBL -G-200s--Pioneer 305 headphones--Sony CE375-5 disc
  • F1nutF1nut Posts: 44,946
    edited August 2014
    Apexpro wrote: »
    And if anything the bass sounds tighter than any twisted cables I've ever tried.

    Show me the empirical evidence.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


    President of Club Polk

  • ApexproApexpro Posts: 97
    edited August 2014
    LOL...I did say "if" and "sounds" - both objective. So how do the electrons know?
    - Please don't clean up my mess. You'll only confuse me.

    APC 1500, Furman Rack Rider, Cambridge Audio Dac Magic Plus, Parasound P/HP 850, Adcom GTP-880, Luxman M-300, Threshold 400A Cascode, McIntosh MC2505, MC2205, MR-71, MX-113, Sony TA-3200F, Tascam 112 MKII, Sony TC-D5 Pro, Tascam CD-200, Thorens TD-147, Kenwood KT-5500, Kenwood KT-7500, Realistic Minimus Sevens, Behringer MS40s, Boston Acoustics A40s, JBL 830Ts, 'Double' Advent Loudspeakers, Klipsch KSW12 sub, Bose 901s, Polk SDA 2s, Polk SDA 1Cs
  • ApexproApexpro Posts: 97
    edited August 2014
    Had. Don was a fine man and a sound professional.
    - Please don't clean up my mess. You'll only confuse me.

    APC 1500, Furman Rack Rider, Cambridge Audio Dac Magic Plus, Parasound P/HP 850, Adcom GTP-880, Luxman M-300, Threshold 400A Cascode, McIntosh MC2505, MC2205, MR-71, MX-113, Sony TA-3200F, Tascam 112 MKII, Sony TC-D5 Pro, Tascam CD-200, Thorens TD-147, Kenwood KT-5500, Kenwood KT-7500, Realistic Minimus Sevens, Behringer MS40s, Boston Acoustics A40s, JBL 830Ts, 'Double' Advent Loudspeakers, Klipsch KSW12 sub, Bose 901s, Polk SDA 2s, Polk SDA 1Cs
  • ApexproApexpro Posts: 97
    edited August 2014
    With that very expensive sig of yours I don't believe it. Yes it will carry a signal sh$t it's used for 110v, so low voltage should make it's way through. But again w/ all that gear why not go w/ something that's at the very least more flexible, easier to camo and purpose made. I'm not in the $100 a foot club for speaker wires or I/Cs but I did go from my world famous 14 gu clear to Blue Jeans 10gu. Belden for the Polks 12 gauge of differeent brands for my other sets and Signal Cable and Blue Jeans 1mt I/Cs.

    If I was convinced it made a difference I probably would. I can see I've touched a nerve here so I'm going to quietly step away. Sorry to have ruffled feathers.
    - Please don't clean up my mess. You'll only confuse me.

    APC 1500, Furman Rack Rider, Cambridge Audio Dac Magic Plus, Parasound P/HP 850, Adcom GTP-880, Luxman M-300, Threshold 400A Cascode, McIntosh MC2505, MC2205, MR-71, MX-113, Sony TA-3200F, Tascam 112 MKII, Sony TC-D5 Pro, Tascam CD-200, Thorens TD-147, Kenwood KT-5500, Kenwood KT-7500, Realistic Minimus Sevens, Behringer MS40s, Boston Acoustics A40s, JBL 830Ts, 'Double' Advent Loudspeakers, Klipsch KSW12 sub, Bose 901s, Polk SDA 2s, Polk SDA 1Cs
  • nspindelnspindel Posts: 5,346
    edited August 2014
    The nerve you're touching is not that anyone cares if you use Romex or coat hangers or wet toothpicks or whatever floats your boat. It's the monthly parade of newbies starting the same discussion, always with a really smart friend with lots of expensive equipment, that's gotten a bit old.
    Good music, a good source, and good power can make SDA's sing. Tubes make them dance.
  • cnhcnh Posts: 13,310
    edited August 2014
    cfrizz wrote: »
    So long as your ears enjoy the sound it doesn't matter what anyone else thinks about it.

    I'm with Cathy. We have one of these threads at least once a month, if not more.

    All I can tell "you" is if "you" hear it "you do" and if "you don't" you don't! And these two camps will never meet.

    I'll also add that it would be nice to see the "empirical" evidence that conclusively proves cables do not make a difference (Jesse does have a point there). Interestingly, the hard data are almost never referenced and documented objectively. They are referred to as anecdotally as the cables matter side. If there were "real" evidence, then don't even tell the story, just POST the "numbers"?

    cnh
    Currently orbiting Bowie's Blackstar.!

    Polk Lsi-7s, Def Tech 8" sub, HK 3490, HK HD 990 (CDP/DAC), AKG Q701s
    [sig. changed on a monthly basis as I rotate in and out of my stash]
  • thsmiththsmith Posts: 6,092
    edited August 2014
    I decided to try 12 gauge monster speaker cable to wire my house. I have to say my frig runs colder, oven gets hotter and my clothes are cleaner.

    The problem is when I turn on my audio system it pee's on the floor.
    Speakers: SDA-1C (most all the goodies)
    Preamp: Joule Electra LA-150 MKII SE
    Amp: Wright WPA 50-50 EAT KT88s
    Analog: Marantz TT-15S1 MBS Glider SL| Wright WPP100C Amperex BB 6er5 and 7316 & WPM-100 SUT
    Digital: Mac mini 2.3GHz dual-core i5 8g RAM 1.5 TB HDD Music Server Amarra (memory play) - USB - W4S DAC 2
    Cables: Mits S3 IC and Spk cables| PS Audio PCs
  • teekay0007teekay0007 Posts: 2,246
    edited August 2014
    thsmith wrote: »
    I decided to try 12 gauge monster speaker cable to wire my house. I have to say my frig runs colder, oven gets hotter and my clothes are cleaner.

    The problem is when I turn on my audio system it pee's on the floor.

    Now, that there's some good stuff! : )
  • ZLTFULZLTFUL Posts: 5,445
    edited August 2014
    You have (had) your EE friend who says cables don't matter.

    And we have ours. His name is Ray and he is an EE and a PhD. He is also a professor at a respected engineering school.
    But Ray says, with his testing and empirical data, that cables do indeed matter.

    It is an age old debate with one side claiming the other side is crazy and vice versa. But here is where "our" side differs from either yours or those of the "other" side...we let our own ears decide and don't try to club our views into someone else. So, stop wasting your and our time with this rubbish. Whether they do or whether they don't, if *you* hear a difference, why do you have to try and make others believe you? Insecurity?

    Me, I noticed a major difference when I switched from Audioquest Flx 12/2 to MIT Terminator speaker cables. But you won't find a thread from me trying to bludgeon my opinion on others. I am content with my purchase and see no need to try and convince someone else who doesn't even have the same gear that I do that my cables are better than his or hers.

    :rolleyes:
    "Some people find it easier to be conceited rather than correct."

    "Unwad those panties and have a good time man. We're all here to help each other, no matter how it might appear." DSkip
  • Toolfan66Toolfan66 Posts: 14,529
    edited August 2014
    tumblr_lswzduAPu91qafrh6.gif


    Nobody cares what you use, as nobody cares what I use, I like what I have and that's all that matters..
  • ken brydsonken brydson Posts: 7,819
    edited August 2014
    "Whatever blows your sack back". Classic Tony quote from a post last week. Still makes me chuckle....
    HT/Main- Panny 50" G10 Plasma, Pioneer SC-1222k AVR, Panny DMP-BD60 BDP, Polk LS90 mains, CS350LS center, LS/fx side surrounds, LS50 surround backs, SVS 25-31PC+ sub, Harmony One

    Office Rig- Marantz 2252B, Denon 2910, Kenwood KD2070 TT, Polk RTA 12B's/ RTA8t
  • Moose68BashMoose68Bash Posts: 3,683
    edited August 2014
    An old friend of mind refers to this kind of activity (that is, provoking useless debates) by the OP as "intellectual masturbation."

    I question whether it is "intellectual." Gee, maybe "flagellation" is a better word for it than "masturbation."

    I guess my friend's phrase wasn't so clever after all.

    Oh well!
    Family Room, PS Audio PW Transport, DirectStream DAC w/Bridge II; AQ Sky XLRs, McIntosh MC 220 Tube Pre; AQ Sky XLRs, CAT 600.2 Dualmono Amp, Morrow SP7 Speaker Cables, SDA SRS 1.2tls (RD0198s, Dreadnought, Black Hole 5, Acousta-Stuf, Dynamat Extreme, JBWeld. Vr3 Mods: "The Abbot" Monastery-Level Xovers, Custom Internal Wiring, Binding Post Plates, & SDA ICs).

    Exercise Room, Wadia 171 iPod Dock, PS Audio PerfectWave MkII DAC w/Bridge II, AQ Sky XLRs, Perreaux PMF3150 Amp, Dreadnought, Supra Rondo 4x2.5 Speaker Cables, SDA 1Cs (Vr3 Mods Xovers).

    Synology 713+ NAS on Gigabit LAN serving PW MkII DAC & DirectStream DAC.
  • Toolfan66Toolfan66 Posts: 14,529
    edited August 2014
    Cables don't matter but. I'm going to use Romex that's a pain to work with instead of just some easier to use speaker wire??

    That alone shows me what an
    you are, go troll somewhere else..
  • BlueFoxBlueFox Posts: 13,649
    edited August 2014
    Apexpro wrote: »
    I looked through the threads and didn't see any empirical evidence. I'm open minded. Show me the numbers.

    You need to talk to Villian and Hanbanero Monk. They know everything. In fact, one has a certificate in networking.
    Bud - Silicon Valley

    Lumin X1 file player
    Sony XA-5400ES SACD
    Pass XP-22 pre, X600.5 amps
    Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers, SPOD spikes

    Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR on preamp, Denali 2000 (2) on amps
    Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
    Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables

    Mapleshade Samson V.3 four shelf solid maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
    Three 20 amp circuits.
  • polkfarmboypolkfarmboy Posts: 5,724
    edited August 2014
    Apexpro, you obviously have no intellectual curiosity for this hobby we all love. From your post it seems you have no desire to learn from others. As Larry pointed out you choose to go this route rather than just buy some oxygen fee cable from the likes of mono price for less than the price of dinner for two at a regular restaurant.

    You have not even given examples of what experimentation you went through with other cables brands to arrive at your conclusion. Your signature and previous posts lead us to the impression that you obviously know that some guys will take you seriously and defend their purchases.

    Why dont you stop right here, dont post any more replys and if your still interested we can help you grow. Post a thread that really gets you curious and guys here may have diff angles on it. You can also share and enlighten us on some of your more serious findings as I'm sure being around the block for this long you have stuff to add. So please I ask you again, try being a little more serious and behave as there are some here who thrive on just starting sh$t and this may be who you are after but it just makes the forum look bad.
  • HermitismHermitism Posts: 3,254
    edited August 2014
    Since we're on the subject of cables, what is it exactly about clear coat wire that is so bad? Does the clear coat crack over time allowing oxygen to get to the copper? Can oxygen penetrate the material used in the clear coat? Or does it not make a good seal around the wire allowing oxygen to get in from the ends? Or is it just the grade of copper used in them? Or the strands?
  • nooshinjohnnooshinjohn Posts: 22,860
    edited August 2014
    nbrowser wrote: »
    Your daft. The end.


    Would that make him a daft punk?
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, TriangleArt Reference SE with Pass Labs Xono Phono Preamp, Walker Precision Motor Drive, ClearAudio Goldfinger Diamond v2 cartridge and Origin Conquerer Mk3c tonearm, Polk Audio "Signature" Reference Series 1.2TL with complete mods, Pass Labs X0.2 three chassis preamp, PS Audio PerfectWave DAC MkII, Krell Evolution 505 SACD Player, Pioneer Elite SC-LX701, Oppo UDP-205 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds.

    I swear by my life and my love of it that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine.” .

    “If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it.”
  • ken brydsonken brydson Posts: 7,819
    edited August 2014
    I use plastic coat hangers. They don't work well at all...
    HT/Main- Panny 50" G10 Plasma, Pioneer SC-1222k AVR, Panny DMP-BD60 BDP, Polk LS90 mains, CS350LS center, LS/fx side surrounds, LS50 surround backs, SVS 25-31PC+ sub, Harmony One

    Office Rig- Marantz 2252B, Denon 2910, Kenwood KD2070 TT, Polk RTA 12B's/ RTA8t
Sign In or Register to comment.

Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!