I can't notice the sda effect, am I crazy?

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Bugstyvy
Bugstyvy Posts: 119
edited July 2014 in Vintage Speakers
I'm experimenting with interconnect and having a hard time noticing a distinct difference. Am I the only one? Sounds awesome either way. A little bright though.
Mcintosh MC2300
Mcintosh 2105
Integra Pre amp 9.8
Pro-ject Record Player
Sony 200 disc CD Changer
Basic Wiring
60" Samsung Series 8
SDA-1.2TL
SDA-3.1TL (unused at the moment)
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  • cnh
    cnh Posts: 13,284
    edited July 2014
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    You have them "properly spaced" and powered, right! Because if you don't do that you can collapse the field pretty easily. Also, SOME recordings have a more pronounced effect than others, so play a variety of things!

    Where you sit also has an effect. More will chime in.

    cnh
    Currently orbiting Bowie's Blackstar.!

    Polk Lsi-7s, Def Tech 8" sub, HK 3490, HK HD 990 (CDP/DAC), AKG Q701s
    [sig. changed on a monthly basis as I rotate in and out of my stash]
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  • Nightfall
    Nightfall Posts: 10,072
    edited July 2014
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    Do half the midwoofers stop playing when you disconnect the interconnect that play while connected?
    afterburnt wrote: »
    They didn't speak a word of English, they were from South Carolina.

    Village Idiot of Club Polk
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  • jim 249
    jim 249 Posts: 347
    edited July 2014
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    Use this link and go to the bottom posting. This should help you out.

    http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?55888-POLK-AUDIO-Speaker-Wiring-Schematics-amp-More-Stereo-Dimensional-Array%28SDA%29
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  • westmassguy
    westmassguy Posts: 6,850
    edited July 2014
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    Double check you have them set up correctly, left speaker on the left, right speaker on the right. Make sure your interconnect cable is good (check continuity). Check for proper SDA function. There's a section in the SDA Handbook for testing.
    As cnh says, there's a sweet spot, essentially an equilateral triangle between the speakers and your listening position.
    Home Theater/2 Channel:
    Front: SDA-2ATL forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/143984/my-2as-finally-finished-almost/p1
    Center: Custom Built forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/150760/my-center-channel-project/p1
    Surrounds & Rears: Custom Built forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/151647/my-surround-project/p1
    Sonicaps, Mills, RDO-194s-198s, Dynamat, Hurricane Nuts, Blackhole5
    Pioneer Elite VSX-72TXV, Carver PM-600, SVS PB2-Plus Subwoofer

    dhsspeakerservice.com/
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 49,806
    edited July 2014
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    Bugstyvy wrote: »
    I'm experimenting with interconnect and having a hard time noticing a distinct difference. Am I the only one? Sounds awesome either way. A little bright though.

    Explain in detail how you have them set up, such as how far apart, how far from the back and side walls, any toe in, etc.
    A little bright though.

    That, in large part, would be due to that crappy, brighter than sunlight Sony CDP.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • Bugstyvy
    Bugstyvy Posts: 119
    edited July 2014
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    They are about 8 feet apart, I'm 10 feet from them. The phono is similar to the CD player, not a major difference. I had them 10" off the wall and since moved them to 3",Noticed a bass increase. I swapped cords from my 3.1's and still the same. It's hard to tell if there is change when I'm behind them to unplug the interconnect.
    Mcintosh MC2300
    Mcintosh 2105
    Integra Pre amp 9.8
    Pro-ject Record Player
    Sony 200 disc CD Changer
    Basic Wiring
    60" Samsung Series 8
    SDA-1.2TL
    SDA-3.1TL (unused at the moment)
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  • agfrost
    agfrost Posts: 2,421
    edited July 2014
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    What's the distance from the outer edge of the cabinets to the side walls? Overall room dimensions? Any furniture that sticks out farther than the front of the speaker baffle? I don't consider my room setup to be "SDA optimal," but the differences with/without the interconnect are not so subtle that I feel I need to be in the sweet spot to be certain of a change.

    Puzzling.

    Are you getting "stereo" effects, if not SDA? That is, you haven't accidentally activated a "mono" setting on your preamp?
    Jay
    SDA 2BTL * Musical Fidelity A5cr amp * Oppo BDP-93 * Modded Adcom GDA-600 DAC * Rythmik F8 (x2)
    Micro Seiki DQ-50 * Hagerman Cornet 2 Phono * A hodgepodge of cabling * Belkin PF60
    Preamp rotation: Krell KSL (SCompRacer recapped) * Manley Shrimp * PS Audio 5.0
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  • BlueFox
    BlueFox Posts: 15,251
    edited July 2014
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    When I used my SDA-2Bs I noticed the effect was more source dependent. Some songs I would look to the left or right wondering where that sound came from.
    Lumin X1 file player, Westminster Labs interconnect cable
    Sony XA-5400ES SACD; Pass XP-22 pre; X600.5 amps
    Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers; SPOD spikes

    Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR on source, Denali 2000 (2) on amps
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    Mapleshade Samson V.3 four shelf solid maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
    Three 20 amp circuits.
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  • Schurkey
    Schurkey Posts: 2,100
    edited July 2014
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    Bugstyvy wrote: »
    I'm experimenting with interconnect and having a hard time noticing a distinct difference. Am I the only one? Sounds awesome either way. A little bright though.
    WHAT SPEAKERS???




    1. Amp connected in PROPER POLARITY? SDA effect is obliterated if the polarity of both speakers is backwards. A batch of SDA-SRS (1.2, perhaps?) were built with the polarity marked wrong on the binding posts.

    2. If the SDA cable--including the cabinet sockets and internal cabinet wiring--doesn't have continuity, there'll be no SDA effect.

    Nightfall wrote: »
    Do half the midwoofers stop playing when you disconnect the interconnect that play while connected?
    Valid, but ONLY for the earliest generation or two of SDA speakers. All the later-generation SDA speakers have the SDA drivers double-teaming the bass. They'll still play bass even with the SDA cable disconnected.
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  • Nightfall
    Nightfall Posts: 10,072
    edited July 2014
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    Schurkey wrote: »
    Valid, but ONLY for the earliest generation or two of SDA speakers. All the later-generation SDA speakers have the SDA drivers double-teaming the bass. They'll still play bass even with the SDA cable disconnected.
    Ahh. Was just wondering if maybe there was an internal wiring/cap problem regarding the SDA "circuitry". How do you troubleshoot that then?
    afterburnt wrote: »
    They didn't speak a word of English, they were from South Carolina.

    Village Idiot of Club Polk
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 49,806
    edited July 2014
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    Schurkey wrote: »
    WHAT SPEAKERS???

    In his sig,
    SDA-1.2TL
    SDA-3.1TL (unused at the moment)
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 49,806
    edited July 2014
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    Bugstyvy wrote: »
    They are about 8 feet apart, I'm 10 feet from them.

    You'll have to play around with speaker position and your seating distance. What you've got right now does not seem ideal to me. I have mine 6 feet apart and sit 9 feet back, which is ideal in my room. However, the manual suggests an equilateral triangle.
    The phono is similar to the CD player, not a major difference.

    Sony CDP's are notoriously bright, especially those mega changers and there are plenty of bright phono rigs. Other possible causes are your room, cables, pre-amp, etc.
    I had them 10" off the wall and since moved them to 3",Noticed a bass increase.

    5 to 6 inches is usually ideal. 3 inches is way too close, the bass will be a boomy mess that close.

    I swapped cords from my 3.1's and still the same. It's hard to tell if there is change when I'm behind them to unplug the interconnect.

    You won't be able to tell what's what standing behind them.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • Schurkey
    Schurkey Posts: 2,100
    edited July 2014
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    Nightfall wrote: »
    Ahh. Was just wondering if maybe there was an internal wiring/cap problem regarding the SDA "circuitry". How do you troubleshoot that then?
    There's a trouble-shooting guide that's already been linked-to in an earlier post.

    The end result is that if the SDA wiring and drivers are working, the soundstage will be hugely wide, and if it isn't, the soundstage will be "ordinary" to "narrow".
    F1nut wrote: »
    You won't be able to tell what's what standing behind them.
    Perhaps true. I can tell that the sound changes when I unplug the SDA interconnect cable by crouching to the side of my 1Bs and reaching around to the back to unplug the SDA interconnect cable. It's not a huge difference listening close-up and to the side like that...but it is noticeable.

    There's a huge difference in soundstage--but not in tone or frequency-response--when seated in the normal listening position and having someone else plug/unplug the SDA interconnect.
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  • leftwinger57
    leftwinger57 Posts: 2,917
    edited July 2014
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    Not sure about the 1.2 sets but on the 2Bs all the drivers look exactly the same. Wackyer things have happened as in reversed polarity wiring and someone just putting in the same drivers 6503/stereo and 6511/dimensensional which again look exactly the same. Your seating is just about the same as mine as I have a 7' spred on the speakers and 9' feet dead center listening spot which is almost an equilatateral triangle. Do the disconnect of the i/c test and see if you just get stereo, play a while then reconnect. It is that different even I noticed it and my ears are not made of any precious metals. Oh, bright should not be the outstanding feature, if anything bass heavy would be my comment and not a complaint. D/L the handbook if you have not already done so it will help explain all the theory, set-up,testing and some diagrams to to show the interaural effect. Mine sound wise sounds like it's coming from everywhere so I rarely use my H/T Klipsch smalls any more.

    http://vr3mods.com/uploads/SDA_Handbook_2011_Rev2.pdf
    2chl- Adcom GFA- 555-Onkyo P-3150v pre/amp- JVC-QL-A200 tt- Denon 1940 ci cdp- Adcom GFS-6 -Modded '87 SDA 2Bs - Dynamat Ext.- BH-5- X-Overs VR-3, RDO-194 tweeters, Larry's Rings, Speakon/Neutrik I/C- Cherry stain tops Advent Maestros,Ohm model E

    H/T- Toshiba au40" flat- Yamaha RX- V665 avr- YSD-11 Dock- I-Pod- Klipsch #400HD Speaker set-

    Bdrm- Nikko 6065 receiver- JBL -G-200s--Pioneer 305 headphones--Sony CE375-5 disc
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  • westmassguy
    westmassguy Posts: 6,850
    edited July 2014
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    Polarity may be an issue. The original SRSs had the polarity reversed at the factory. I just rebuilt a pair of 1.2s, and the factory wiring was correct, but someone had switched the red and black plastic nuts on the binding post cups. You may want to pull the binding Post cups, and check the internal wire connections vs the color coded, plastic binding post nuts.
    Home Theater/2 Channel:
    Front: SDA-2ATL forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/143984/my-2as-finally-finished-almost/p1
    Center: Custom Built forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/150760/my-center-channel-project/p1
    Surrounds & Rears: Custom Built forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/151647/my-surround-project/p1
    Sonicaps, Mills, RDO-194s-198s, Dynamat, Hurricane Nuts, Blackhole5
    Pioneer Elite VSX-72TXV, Carver PM-600, SVS PB2-Plus Subwoofer

    dhsspeakerservice.com/
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  • Mr. Bubbles
    Mr. Bubbles Posts: 736
    edited July 2014
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    When i got my SRS I had this same issue. It ended up being some oxidation in the interconnect socket at one terminal cup.
    If con is the opposite of pro, is Congress the opposite of Progress?!


    Monitor 5Jr, Monitor 5, RTA12, RTA 15TL, SDA 2A, 1c, SRS 2, 1.2TL, CRS, Atrium.
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  • Bugstyvy
    Bugstyvy Posts: 119
    edited July 2014
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    I will check posts for reverse plastic knobs, I will contact the old owner to see if any drivers have been replaced but I think he said they were all original. Check for corrosion(I have 2 cords though) and get the wife to pull the cord out ;)
    Mcintosh MC2300
    Mcintosh 2105
    Integra Pre amp 9.8
    Pro-ject Record Player
    Sony 200 disc CD Changer
    Basic Wiring
    60" Samsung Series 8
    SDA-1.2TL
    SDA-3.1TL (unused at the moment)
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  • TennMan
    TennMan Posts: 1,264
    edited July 2014
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    Disconnect speaker wires at the amplifier.
    Disconnect the IC cable.
    Connect a 1.5 volt flashlight battery momentarily to the speaker wires of left speaker observing polarity. Watch to see if all the MWs move outward when the battery is connected. If thy do the speakers are wired correctly. Check the right speaker the same way.
    • SDA 2BTL · Sonicaps · Mills resistors · RDO-198s · New gaskets · H-nuts · Erse inductors · BH5 · Dynamat
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  • zane77
    zane77 Posts: 1,696
    edited July 2014
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    When your doing your testing, search the SDA threads for music that offers the best SDA effect, should make testing a little easier.
    Home Theater
    Onkyo PR-SC5508 Sharp LC-70LE847U
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    Two Channel
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  • Bugstyvy
    Bugstyvy Posts: 119
    edited July 2014
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    zane77 wrote: »
    When your doing your testing, search the SDA threads for music that offers the best SDA effect, should make testing a little easier.

    There is a list in the last page of the booklet
    Mcintosh MC2300
    Mcintosh 2105
    Integra Pre amp 9.8
    Pro-ject Record Player
    Sony 200 disc CD Changer
    Basic Wiring
    60" Samsung Series 8
    SDA-1.2TL
    SDA-3.1TL (unused at the moment)
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  • George Grand
    George Grand Posts: 12,258
    edited July 2014
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    It might sound silly, but you got a "Mono/Stereo" switch on your preamp that needs to be checked?
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  • Schurkey
    Schurkey Posts: 2,100
    edited July 2014
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    George Grand wrote: »
    It might sound silly, but you got a "Mono/Stereo" switch on your preamp that needs to be checked?
    EXCELLENT suggestion.
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  • Bugstyvy
    Bugstyvy Posts: 119
    edited July 2014
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    There is a mono/stereo switch on the amp, it is on Stereo
    Mcintosh MC2300
    Mcintosh 2105
    Integra Pre amp 9.8
    Pro-ject Record Player
    Sony 200 disc CD Changer
    Basic Wiring
    60" Samsung Series 8
    SDA-1.2TL
    SDA-3.1TL (unused at the moment)
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  • George Grand
    George Grand Posts: 12,258
    edited July 2014
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    Which "amp" has the switch on it? It needs to be the one on the preamp that is also in the stereo position.
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  • Bugstyvy
    Bugstyvy Posts: 119
    edited July 2014
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    George Grand wrote: »
    Which "amp" has the switch on it? It needs to be the one on the preamp that is also in the stereo position.

    Everything is in stereo mode.
    Mcintosh MC2300
    Mcintosh 2105
    Integra Pre amp 9.8
    Pro-ject Record Player
    Sony 200 disc CD Changer
    Basic Wiring
    60" Samsung Series 8
    SDA-1.2TL
    SDA-3.1TL (unused at the moment)
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  • PolkieMan
    PolkieMan Posts: 2,446
    edited July 2014
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    I hate to say it but it is very noticeable when I plug and unplug the cable.
    The mid range, which is where most of the music is anyway, on the SDA drivers quits.
    So it's just like I unhooked the drivers.
    POLK SDA 2.3 TLS BOUGHT NEW IN 1990, Gimpod/Sonic Caps/Mills RDO-198
    POLK CSI-A6 POLK MONITOR 70'S ONKYO TX NR-808 SONY CDP-333ES
    PIONEER PL-510A SONY BDP S5100
    POLK SDA 1C BOUGHT USED 2011,Gimpod/Sonic Caps/Mills RDO-194
    ONKYO HT RC-360 SONY BDP S590 TECHNICS SL BD-1
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  • nooshinjohn
    nooshinjohn Posts: 25,102
    edited July 2014
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    could it be a phasing issue inside the cabinets? Another idea would be to check the speaker connections for proper phasing...
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD

    “When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson
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  • notified
    notified Posts: 175
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    Hi,I'm experiencing the same problem and was wondering if you ever resolved the problem? Ive tried all the above tests except the battery one [gonna try it later] In my situation I'm wondering if my room may be too small.Spaced at apx. 4.5' I've got about 2.5' to the sidewalls.Should i get a definitely noticeable effect when seated about 6' back? [ I have the sda1's with the horizontally mounted tweeters ]
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  • westmassguy
    westmassguy Posts: 6,850
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    That's not a lot of separation, and the close proximity to the side walls may cause early reflections, which would play havoc with any speaker, not just SDAs.
    You can try disconnecting the outer Dimensional Tweeters. These were eliminated on later models, and may improve the overall sound.
    If your pre-amp or integrated has a balance control, you can check whether the SDA circuit is working properly very easily.
    Home Theater/2 Channel:
    Front: SDA-2ATL forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/143984/my-2as-finally-finished-almost/p1
    Center: Custom Built forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/150760/my-center-channel-project/p1
    Surrounds & Rears: Custom Built forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/151647/my-surround-project/p1
    Sonicaps, Mills, RDO-194s-198s, Dynamat, Hurricane Nuts, Blackhole5
    Pioneer Elite VSX-72TXV, Carver PM-600, SVS PB2-Plus Subwoofer

    dhsspeakerservice.com/
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  • vcwatkins
    vcwatkins Posts: 1,993
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    If 1.2's, double-check your red posts are on the left regardless of what the plate sticker indicates. Dunno if others came from the factory crossed up.
    http://forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/comment/1818501#Comment_1818501
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