Does high quality digital cables matter?
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Perhaps you missed the part where I haven't called anybody out on anything in this thread. The conversation between Monk and I revolves around me claiming I can hear a difference between Ethernet cables and him claiming I can't.
Show me where I posted anything that is in defense of or against something someone else said short of me saying I will go with what the PhD electrical engineer says over what *you* say.
If you want to call me out for "this" then I rebut by calling you out in both this thread for you claiming not to be a "dick" and yet *you* haven't attempted to rebut it. Either it is fact or you have no valid response.
I also pointed out virtually every big name studio that does *not* use Crown gear and yet you ignore that.
So, I guess what I am saying is that you claim that DK or bluefox are ignoring you but you seem to be doing the exact same thing. So who's the hypocrite here?
As for your questions, they were never posed to me because I never made the claims you seem to want to refute. Why is that? Because I don't give a flying f*ck. My debate is with Monk, not you because you won't put your money where your mouth is. All talk, no walk.
I like how you respond to anything that you can create an argument with but completely ignore posts that show you to be in the wrong. Cute really, cupcake."Some people find it easier to be conceited rather than correct."
"Unwad those panties and have a good time man. We're all here to help each other, no matter how it might appear." DSkip -
^^^^^^^
Man, I get your post above, but to paraphrase Star Trek, only a fool fights in a burning house.So, are you willing to put forth a little effort or are you happy sitting in your skeptical poo pile?
http://audiomilitia.proboards.com/ -
Who wants to wager how many days we have left in this thread
.....
I think its the longest running cable debate that hasn't been locked.....
:biggrin:"....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963) -
It will go for awhile most have been very civil from what I've seen and there has actually been some great stuff coming out of it.
Agree it has been the longest I have seen while I've been a member. -
^^^^^^^
Man, I get your post above, but to paraphrase Star Trek, only a fool fights in a burning house.
I know what you mean man.
Your signature says it all though...
"So, are you willing to put forth a little effort or are you happy sitting in your skeptical poo pile?""Some people find it easier to be conceited rather than correct."
"Unwad those panties and have a good time man. We're all here to help each other, no matter how it might appear." DSkip -
So, I guess what I am saying is that you claim that DK or bluefox are ignoring you but you seem to be doing the exact same thing. So who's the hypocrite here?
Well, at least the TROLL has the mental capacity to recognize being ignored. I realized he was just trolling when I answered his question if anyone heard a difference with fiber, and his response was along the line of something like this, "The next question is what is the sound of light." (Search this thread for the exact context).
In regard to his "questions", I answered that in post 726.Not speaking for DK, but nobody ever said the stored file has jitter.Actually you did, in post 700 of this thread.
# 726If I did then I was wrong. It is easy to make mistakes in these conversations.
Wait. I just reread that post, and I was specifically referring to the transfer of the data. So, at least in that post, I did not say that a file on a hard drive has jitter.
In this entire thread, I have been talking about the transfer of a file from point A to point B, and postulated that each link has the potential to introduce jitter. Potential, not does. Nowhere have I said a stored file has jitter. Again, if I did say that somewhere in this long thread it was inadvertent, and wrong.
All the TROLL is doing is taking sentences out of context, and trying to make a non-existent case. Of course, he is failing miserably, as he does on other threads.Lumin X1 file player, Westminster Labs interconnect cable
Sony XA-5400ES SACD; Pass XP-22 pre; X600.5 amps
Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers; SPOD spikes
Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR on source, Denali 2000 (2) on amps
Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables
Mapleshade Samson V.3 four shelf solid maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
Three 20 amp circuits. -
wrong thread.."....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963)
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In this entire thread, I have been talking about the transfer of a file from point A to point B, and postulated that each link has the potential to introduce jitter. Potential, not does. Nowhere have I said a stored file has jitter. Again, if I did say that somewhere in this long thread it was inadvertent, and wrong.
So now you're using the word "potential" to get around what you've previously said? Wow, you'll go lower than I thought to avoid admitting that you simply don't know what you are talking about. Just read my signature. That clearly shows what you have, and haven't said or laid claim to.
PS - There is NO "Potential" for jitter to be introduced outside of real-time processing in a packet driven digital transfer. There simply is no jitter introduced, nor the potential for it in that environment (Jitter doesn't exist outside of real time). It's a black and white matter, there is NO grey area so the sooner you'll simply admit that you're wrong, the sooner we can close this chapter.
Oh, and seeing as how myself and Habanero have tried to answer at least all reasonable questions you've asked, I am asking for the same in return. Please answer the following questions. Yes or no answers will suffice. This is the 6th time I've asked you to answer this, for those counting...
Q: Where does jitter (Or any audio distortion as you call it..that varies from the original recording) exist in a digital music file? Can you provide an example of a binary code showing this?
Q: Where does jitter exist (Other than the original recording jitter) in a digital file with a CRC matching the original file?
Q: Does jitter exist within a file in RAM or in a buffer?
Q: Does jitter exist in a file within any computer storage device (Storage medium)?Too many good quotes to list..waiting for some fresh ammo. -
Perhaps you missed the part where I haven't called anybody out on anything in this thread. The conversation between Monk and I revolves around me claiming I can hear a difference between Ethernet cables and him claiming I can't.
Show me where I posted anything that is in defense of or against something someone else said short of me saying I will go with what the PhD electrical engineer says over what *you* say.
Since I hinted at my credentials at one point I'll ask you this rhetorical question..
Who has the PhD in electrical engineering? This guy..or that guy? Or is this a trick question
Too many good quotes to list..waiting for some fresh ammo. -
Since I hinted at my credentials at one point I'll ask you this rhetorical question..
Who has the PhD in electrical engineering? This guy..or that guy? Or is this a trick question
Dude, I like cat and mouse games sometimes, but at this point I'm over "hinting" around crap. Man up and a just be straight up honest and transparent. What credentials if any do you have. Its not like those are going to reveal your "identity", however it would provide a baseline what what knowledge you should or should not have.
Hell I'll start.
Hi My name is Dan. I attended an local engineering school and graduated with a bachelors of science from the School of Engineering with a degree in Spatial Graphics and a focus on Animation."....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963) -
It will go for awhile most have been very civil from what I've seen and there has actually been some great stuff coming out of it.
I think it deserves a sticky with all the great research that has been put forth.Too many good quotes to list..waiting for some fresh ammo. -
Who has the PhD in electrical engineering?
it is not a trick question. you have been arguing with him for several pages. He is well respected in his field and teaches (i believe) at a very well respected school.....And has been published if I remember right.
Good god man you can't be THAT DENSE... -
Since I hinted at my credentials at one point I'll ask you this rhetorical question..
Who has the PhD in electrical engineering? This guy..or that guy? Or is this a trick question
Raife, aka DarqueKnight is a PhD in Electrical Engineering. He also happens to be a professor of electrical engineering.
Professor, Electrical Engineering
Ph.D. Electrical Engineering, Tulane University
Teaching and research interests are in the areas of Communications Signals and Systems, Broadband Telecommunications Network Design and Optimization, and Stochastic Modeling. Dr. Smith's consulting interests are in enterprise network and public switched network modeling, design and optimization.
As for my credentials, well aside from enough IT certifications to joke a maggot along with pending certs, I have a bachelors in Graphic Design (Grandview University), a bachelors in Computer Science with a minor in computer hardware engineering (Iowa State University) and am currently working on my masters in Comp Sci with the hopes of eventually working towards a PhD in Hardware Engineering.
I am currently a senior systems administrator for the Food Safety and Inspection Service of the USDA as a member of their engineering team. We handle all server administration and a lot of the network administration for the ~8500 employees of the FSIS. I am also currently the technical lead on the departmental AD migration as I have the most experience of the team with AD architecture.
Outside of work, my 3 primary hobbies are computers/networking (grandpa said do what you love and you never work a day in your life), home audio and motorcycles from dirt to road-racing.
As for your credentials, none of your posts hint at any of them, so feel free to nut up and throw em down."Some people find it easier to be conceited rather than correct."
"Unwad those panties and have a good time man. We're all here to help each other, no matter how it might appear." DSkip -
Personally, if I were you guys I wouldn't waste anymore time with the troll. He has been mocked, ridiculed, humiliated, and scorned on so many threads that he is becoming psychopathic, or maybe more psychopathic.
Anyway, this isn't a contest as to who has what credentials. It is simply basic reading comprehension, and it appears his reading comprehension skills are non-existent. This appears to be a common theme amongst those who are so desperate for always being right that they end up being wrong.
The latest example of his abysmal reading skills is from post 825 where he references his sig.
From post 825:So now you're using the word "potential" to get around what you've previously said? Wow, you'll go lower than I thought to avoid admitting that you simply don't know what you are talking about. Just read my signature. That clearly shows what you have, and haven't said or laid claim to.
From his sig:Originally Posted by BlueFox
..any link used in the transfer of a digital musical file has the potential to introduce audible distortion into that file, even while the CRC remains correct.Lumin X1 file player, Westminster Labs interconnect cable
Sony XA-5400ES SACD; Pass XP-22 pre; X600.5 amps
Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers; SPOD spikes
Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR on source, Denali 2000 (2) on amps
Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables
Mapleshade Samson V.3 four shelf solid maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
Three 20 amp circuits. -
In this entire thread, I have been talking about the transfer of a file from point A to point B, and postulated that each link has the potential to introduce jitter. Potential, not does. Nowhere have I said a stored file has jitter. Again, if I did say that somewhere in this long thread it was inadvertent, and wrong.
All you need to come to terms with: There is, in absolute terms in regards to how packet driven computer networks operate, zero audio jitter. It is jitter free. There isn't even any Ethernet cable jitter after the buffer has filled and the network cable has went quiet until the next pull request comes.
Even if the buffer is incrementally filling while playing you are playing off the top of the buffer and the bottom is being filled. If the buffer fails to get filled in time you will have no audio.
I posted prior:
Open up JRiver and even run it as it's default (6 second pre-buffer). Start the playback of a file for a few seconds. The buffer will fill up in the first ~0.047 second using 16/44.1 full bit rate audio (1411kbps). Click pause.
Disable either physically or in the network CP the adapter. Go back to JRiver and click play. This is A-synchronous. There is absolutely ZERO jitter. There isn't even a possibility.
BTW the default buffer in a lot of applications that give no control is 20ms. You simply can't hit play/pause/play quick enough
Jitter will become an issue next when it hit's the S/PDIF or USB or Firewire cable. Use an A-synchronous DAC with independently verified low jitter (under 1NS) full bandwidth. If you want go ahead get it in the 250 pico second range. That is if you want to chase particular #'s. -
..any link used in the transfer of a digital musical file has the potential to introduce audible distortion into that file, even while the CRC remains correct.:
It doesn't matter if you used the word potential or not. The manner of Computer Networking over Ethernet preclude this possibility.
I'm trying to find a Windows or OSX Ethernet connected box that doesn't buffer the pulled data. They are A-sync, non-realtime, systems. -
Raife, aka DarqueKnight is a PhD in Electrical Engineering. He also happens to be a professor of electrical engineering.
Professor, Electrical Engineering
Ph.D. Electrical Engineering, Tulane University
Teaching and research interests are in the areas of Communications Signals and Systems, Broadband Telecommunications Network Design and Optimization, and Stochastic Modeling. Dr. Smith's consulting interests are in enterprise network and public switched network modeling, design and optimization.
As for my credentials, well aside from enough IT certifications to joke a maggot along with pending certs, I have a bachelors in Graphic Design (Grandview University), a bachelors in Computer Science with a minor in computer hardware engineering (Iowa State University) and am currently working on my masters in Comp Sci with the hopes of eventually working towards a PhD in Hardware Engineering.
I am currently a senior systems administrator for the Food Safety and Inspection Service of the USDA as a member of their engineering team. We handle all server administration and a lot of the network administration for the ~8500 employees of the FSIS. I am also currently the technical lead on the departmental AD migration as I have the most experience of the team with AD architecture.
Outside of work, my 3 primary hobbies are computers/networking (grandpa said do what you love and you never work a day in your life), home audio and motorcycles from dirt to road-racing.
As for your credentials, none of your posts hint at any of them, so feel free to nut up and throw em down.EndersShadow wrote: »Hi My name is Dan. I attended an local engineering school and graduated with a bachelors of science from the School of Engineering with a degree in Spatial Graphics and a focus on Animation.
Well then, my name is Shaun and I attended Technische Universitat Kaiserslautern and graduated with a Master of Science in Electrical and Computer Engineering with an emphasis in communication systems. I am continuining my education and have no desire to ever stop. Much like (And ironically) ZLTFUL I also have a degree in Graphic Design, and would include computers/networking, home audio, and motorcycles as my top 3 hobbies..although in reverse order. I ride nearly 10k a year, and the only thing that ever slows down my frantic mileage pace is maintainence. Granted I may not have the time or means to make publicly available in-depth write ups on my research in the way that DarqueKnight does, but I think I'm more than qualified to state what can and cannot be transmitted across a packet switched network..without rebuke. Especially when the things I'm stating are simple facts that have either been proven many times over, or are not possible in any other way (Like jitter existing in a non-real time environment...it simply cannot exist in that environment. There is no debate to be had). Bluefox still has yet to answer the questions I've posed to him, and I do eventually expect an answer. They're not hard questions to answer, ego aside.Too many good quotes to list..waiting for some fresh ammo. -
Well then, my name is Shaun and I attended Technische Universitat Kaiserslautern and graduated with a Master of Science in Electrical and Computer Engineering with an emphasis in communication systems. I am continuining my education and have no desire to ever stop. Much like (And ironically) ZLTFUL I also have a degree in Graphic Design, and would include computers/networking, home audio, and motorcycles as my top 3 hobbies..although in reverse order. I ride nearly 10k a year, and the only thing that ever slows down my frantic mileage pace is maintainence. Granted I may not have the time or means to make publicly available in-depth write ups on my research in the way that DarqueKnight does, but I think I'm more than qualified to state what can and cannot be transmitted across a packet switched network..without rebuke. Especially when the things I'm stating are simple facts that have either been proven many times over, or are not possible in any other way (Like jitter existing in a non-real time environment...it simply cannot exist in that environment. There is no debate to be had). Bluefox still has yet to answer the questions I've posed to him, and I do eventually expect an answer. They're not hard questions to answer, ego aside.
Well now, some of that's more in line with what we would call acceptable (Polk family) here. Too bad you can't make this one of your first posts instead of your most recent. You can, however, rethink what is in your sig. Just sayin'.
I also saw you posted in the Polkfest thread. I am sure many of the attendees would welcome new people.So, are you willing to put forth a little effort or are you happy sitting in your skeptical poo pile?
http://audiomilitia.proboards.com/ -
Here is a link to thread on an audio/video forum in India where a forum member did blind tests of Cat 7 Ethernet cables in a computer audio system.
Evaluation of CAT 7 - Ethernet Cable - Revelation Audio Labs - USA
The thread is 26 pages long, so I will only list the posts where the investigator discusses listening results:
Post #155, Page 16,
Post #159, Page 16,
Post #167, Page 17,
Post #168, Page 17,
Post #171, Page 18,
Post #172, Page 18,
Post #176, Page 18,
Post #178, Page 18,
Post #186, Page 19,
Post #222, Page 23,
Post #253, Page 26.
Introduction and pictures of RAL Cat 7 cable: Post #1, Page 1.
Pictures of other Cat 5/6/7 cables tested: Post #23, Page 3.
Summary:
The thread author wanted to see if there was a any difference between the expensive (over $300) RAL Cat 7 Ethernet cable and generic Cat 5/6/7 Ethernet cables.
The author evaluated the cables by himself using sighted subjective testing. He mentioned in post #37 that he gave up blind testing 7+ years ago.
However, he did blind test a panel of experienced listeners who did not know the specifics of the Ethernet cables under evaluation.
The author mentioned (post #1) that he actually wanted AudioQuest Diamond Ethernet cable, but the $700 price was a deterrent.
Summary of results:
Neither the author nor the blind tested panel members chose the much more expensive RAL cable as the best sounding. The author and the panel members could discern sonic differences among all of the Ethernet cables.Proud and loyal citizen of the Digital Domain and Solid State Country! -
DarqueKnight wrote: »Summary of results:
Neither the author nor the blind tested panel members chose the much more expensive RAL cable as the best sounding. The author and the panel members could discern sonic differences among all of the Ethernet cables.
You must be really desperate. He describes the test in post 176. They didn't identify any cables, they just listened to 5 cables twice, and stated which they preferred. Then repeated it with 3 cables. Not surprisingly, the preferences were completely random. He never even states if each listener proffered the same cable each time they listened. Just that they claimed to hear a difference.
How does this even come close to demonstrating they heard any difference at all? -
Then I saw this oddity by the OP:
1 thing is for sure - as of today the result is 4/0 [# of people that can / could hear a difference in the 5 cables]
What is 4/0 as related to can/could ?
4 people can hear a difference
4 people could hear a difference
Post 172 gets into how he did this but it's so poorly fleshed out. No where near what I am proposing as a protocol. He even mentioned some could see him changing out cables which invalidates a blind study if the changing out of cables is to be kept from view. Which I believe was his goal by context of his post.
I am looking into audience participation apps for iPhone/Android.
I want to work up another protocol for groups of people (3-4 at a time). Protocol would be Certified CAT6 UTP at ~$15 ~$350.
1 hour of music selected on merit of it's being regarded as well mastered. In that one hour 10 changes are made and the participants indicate the change and indicate Cable A or Cable B. Audience will know which cable started the session.
The change order and interval would be randomly selected before each session.
My goal would be 50-60 participants as to have a large enough N to be able to reliably run statistical analysis as it relates to a population of Audiophiles.
This population could be anyone that thinks their is a difference of such a nature that it is a 'tell' (night and day difference). -
You must be really desperate. He describes the test in post 176. They didn't identify any cables, they just listened to 5 cables twice, and stated which they preferred. Then repeated it with 3 cables. Not surprisingly, the preferences were completely random. He never even states if each listener proffered the same cable each time they listened. Just that they claimed to hear a difference.
How does this even come close to demonstrating they heard any difference at all?
His post 172 is even more egregious... -
Monk both have histories of being aggressively argumentative on many topics. In every one, it seems to become a vendetta against one or another member on this forum. I know.... I've been the target of this before.
I think you are out of line.
There are still, up to this post, questions asked that Darque Knight and Bluefox have either tried deflection of (a paper discussing running Ethernet along with high voltage power on Navy ships) or outright just non-responsive.
1. If you download a file from HD Tracks with Cable A and then again with Cable B and play them back and switch between them (as I am now made aware Foobar can do) can there be a difference?
2. If you queue up a file start playing it. Pause it, pull the network cable, play it/pause it/play it. Are you listening to the cable?
3. If you queue up a file start playing it. Pause it, pull the network cable, play it/pause it/play it. Is there Ethernet Jitter?
This is a debate pure and simple. I've now used Amir's write up of PLL induced jitter and Steven Nugents write ups about computer audio both provided by BlueFox.
4. Is the buffer on the S/PDIF cable (using the context of Amir's writeup) the same as a buffer in RAM on a computer that packet data is fed to when streaming audio?
My questions are valid. My questions are actually based on documentation brought by one of my counterparts in this debate. -
Back up? Sorry, you still stand as the only person on this forum I've asked the mods to ban. You've gone as far as to harrass members on this forum via PM's. Your attitude and behavior have frequently been well on the other side of acceptable. I've chosen not to say anything publicly about this because it wasn't worth airing that laundry.
Feel free to back anything you just posted about... You'll find if it's happened it's a two way street. Those are some serious accusations. I forget is it libel or slander when it's written? -
I'm just laying in wait... He who is w/o sin should cast the first stone. No one should confuse me for a person that is going to take it on the chin proverbially speaking.
I think the fact that you have zero posts in this thread taking anyone to task for calling me names because I simply keep on responding with solid questions that won't get answered. They won't get answered because as soon as they do they've stepped out of the corner they painted themselves into and start tracking paint.
Honestly I don't need your support. It's just the hypocrisy you just displayed that I can do without. -
DarqueKnight wrote: »Neither the author nor the blind tested panel members chose the much more expensive RAL cable as the best sounding. The author and the panel members could discern sonic differences among all of the Ethernet cables.
Interesting. Another bit of anecdotal data that there is something going on in this area. I suspect that as more people with better gear get involved with network audio we are going to be hearing more and more of these stories. I learnt a long time ago there are no absolutes with technology. There is always something unanticipated occurring.
Anyway, while looking through that thread I came across this review of Audioquest Ethernet cables. While just one person's experience, it is another bit of anecdotal data.
"Next, I went for longer listening between swaps. Full songs and even more than one. Then I'd swap Forest for generic or vice versa and listen some more. Here, I heard a slight but noticeable difference mainly in the texture of vocalsvoices sounded less hashy with the Audioquest Forest Ethernet cables. This held for Ella, Mel Torme, Bonnie 'Prince' Billy, Isaac Hayes, Billie Holiday, Brigitte Fassbinder, and more. There also seemed to be a greater sense of ease as if some underlying noise had been removed. Interesting (that's what I actually thought).
Next up was the Cinnamon versus generic and in these longer listening swaps, more than one song at a time long, the above-mentioned differences were even more apparent. Of course they were, right? I mean they're supposed to be and the mere power of this suggestion may be the root cause of my perceived differences. And I would not dispute this conjecture but I also would not agree with it, either. With the Audioquest Ethernet cables in my system, and they are in my system since my music is served from a Network Attached Storage device, music sounded less harsh, with more air and ease and with the Cinnamon I even noted greater bass definition and differentiation between instruments. Music sounded better."
http://www.audiostream.com/content/audioquest-ethernet-cablesLumin X1 file player, Westminster Labs interconnect cable
Sony XA-5400ES SACD; Pass XP-22 pre; X600.5 amps
Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers; SPOD spikes
Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR on source, Denali 2000 (2) on amps
Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables
Mapleshade Samson V.3 four shelf solid maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
Three 20 amp circuits. -
You must be really desperate.
Me desperate? About audio? Never!
"Desperate" is a term I would use to describe the following two classes of people:
1. People who insist that a test appropriate for one type of audio is appropriate for all types of audio.
2. People who take issue with what other people say they can hear and demand proof.He describes the test in post 176. They didn't identify any cables, they just listened to 5 cables twice, and stated which they preferred. Then repeated it with 3 cables. Not surprisingly, the preferences were completely random. He never even states if each listener proffered the same cable each time they listened. Just that they claimed to hear a difference.
Even in a double blind test people have a 50% chance of guessing the right answer. They can merely "claim" to hear a difference and "validate" that with a correct guess.
There were some suggestions and comments in the thread regarding the format of the test. The author addressed their comments this way in post #186:Sir,
I am aware of how it works;
The issues here are :-
a]
All the Panel members are doing me a 'favour' by visiting for my benefit.
b]
Going through CAT Cables that cost less that 6 to 7 US $'s is not their idea of Fun / test or play.
c]
The intent was to find out if CAT Cables have an impact on the overall sound.
d]
If we want to decide which cable is 'liked' or 'sounded' the best - yes a test format as suggested by you may be implemented.
However, only a concerned party will do it - imho
Here we just needed to know if CAT Cables 'change the sound' & the answer was got.How does this even come close to demonstrating they heard any difference at all?
There obviously was enough difference for him, and others, to know that the far more expensive RAL cable was the worst performer in his system.Proud and loyal citizen of the Digital Domain and Solid State Country! -
Interesting. Another bit of anecdotal data
Anecdotal data = confirmation bias
In science, definitions of anecdotal evidence include: "information that is not based on facts or careful study" "reports or observations of usually unscientific observers" "casual observations or indications rather than rigorous or scientific analysis"
I encourage anyone here to simply google Anecdotal Data -
Habanero Monk wrote: »Anecdotal data = confirmation bias
There is no such thing as "anecdotal data". It's an oxymoron.Habanero Monk wrote: »There is no such thing as anecdotal data. It's a formation of idea or opinion without any real data to back it up. It's an oxymoron.Proud and loyal citizen of the Digital Domain and Solid State Country! -
Habanero Monk wrote: »Anecdotal data = confirmation bias
In science, definitions of anecdotal evidence include: "information that is not based on facts or careful study" "reports or observations of usually unscientific observers" "casual observations or indications rather than rigorous or scientific analysis"
Well, yes. Did you expect it to mean something else?
When somebody sticks their hand in a fire, realizes that it burns their hand, and then tells others what they felt, is that not valid information? Or do we need to first understand the human nervous system before we can accept that anecdotal data?Lumin X1 file player, Westminster Labs interconnect cable
Sony XA-5400ES SACD; Pass XP-22 pre; X600.5 amps
Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers; SPOD spikes
Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR on source, Denali 2000 (2) on amps
Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables
Mapleshade Samson V.3 four shelf solid maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
Three 20 amp circuits.
This discussion has been closed.