Reasearching Amplifiers - Have a few questions for use with RTi speakers

msg · December 2013

Hey guys,
I'm looking into amplifiers for the system I'm putting together. I'm not really sure what a good price point is, or what to expect in this area. Basically looking for something somewhat affordable to properly drive three channels right now. I don't just mean "good enough" - if I'm spending money on an amp, I'd like it to sound good all around, meaning, full & rich, with clarity at volume, and noticeably better than straight out of the receiver, so if "affordable" means "so-so, not really worth it/marginal improvement", I'll hold off for a while on that component. I'm seeing prices ranging from a few hundred, up through $3k, and that's about where I stopped looking, haha

I have a few questions. Can you guys help me out?

1. What are some good brands/models that work with the Polk RTi/RTiA line?

2. If I'm going to go with a 5ch amplifier, do I still need to spend money on a powerful AVR, or can I shop more for the feature set instead?

3. What sort of power should I be looking for to power a set of RTi10's, and a CSi5 or CSiA6? (3 channels total, for now; prob only ever going to have 5.1 at most, so maybe I only need a 3ch amp, unless a 5ch is only marginally more expensive)

4. What should I expect to spend on a 5ch amplifier?

Thanks in advance!

BlueFox · December 2013

Pick a budget, multiply it by 10, then double it. It all depends on what you want. Quality and cost range from none to infinite.

I regard to question 2, if you get a 5 channel amp then you do not need an AVR. You need what is referred to as a pre/pro in the HT arena. Of course, an AVR with pre-amp outputs can be used, but in my mind you may as we'll maximize audio quality by using a pre/pro.

Power is like money. You can never have to much, but it is better to have quality power versus an inflated number. I think the Cfrizz rule of thumb (200 watts per channel) is reasonable.

chumlie · December 2013

1) Parasound works well with RTi/RTiA.
2) No, but make sure it has pre-outs so you can hook up the amp or you could just get a Pioneer SC series and you won't need an amp.
3) 125 to 200 watts of good power should do the trick.
4) Depends on a lot of variables.

msg · December 2013

thanks fellas.

BlueFox wrote: »

Pick a budget, multiply it by 10, then double it. It all depends on what you want. Quality and cost range from none to infinite.

I regard to question 2, if you get a 5 channel amp then you do not need an AVR. You need what is referred to as a pre/pro in the HT arena. Of course, an AVR with pre-amp outputs can be used, but in my mind you may as we'll maximize audio quality by using a pre/pro.

Power is like money. You can never have to much, but it is better to have quality power versus an inflated number. I think the Cfrizz rule of thumb (200 watts per channel) is reasonable.

thanks. I hadn't realized that there's a third option for use with an amplifier; I thought the standard usage was just to run everything out of the AVR to the amp to the speakers. are Preamps cheaper than regular AVRs since they don't offer amplification?

chumlie wrote: »

1) Parasound works well with RTi/RTiA.
2) No, but make sure it has pre-outs so you can hook up the amp or you could just get a Pioneer SC series and you won't need an amp.
3) 125 to 200 watts of good power should do the trick.
4) Depends on a lot of variables.

thanks, yes, I am gathering that Parasound seems one of the preferred options.

second time I've seen mention of the Pioneer SC series. seems like I could pick up one of these for less than the cost of a Preamp/AVR and an amplifier.

so I'm beginning to research the receivers, too. I'm a little confused at this point as to what makes a receiver good. I keep seeing stuff about "high power" or "high current" but not really sure how one goes about determining whether the receiver qualifies. the first inclination is to look at the power per channel, but apparently these numbers can be misleading, some manufacturers stating these specifications @6 ohms, or just 1 channel driven, etc. I'm reading the AVR FAQ and Amplifier FAQ over on AVS and picking up a few things. to complicate matters, I was sifting through some old equipment this morning and found my Dad's old Realistic Receiver that pushed some huge floor speakers with 18" woofers with a very warm, full sound, yet it was only rated at 25W/ch. ??? haha

cnh · December 2013

With that speaker set you could get away with running everything from a higher end Pioneer SC ELITE ICE-POWER receiver. And it would still have the pre-outs necessary for adding more power if you wanted to.

It is generally NOT necessarily cheaper to buy a pre/pro and add amplification than to get an AVR and to do the same. Because most good pre/pros are higher end models made by the same people who make power amps.

The most budget friendly approach is to get a nice AVR and pair it with a USED multi-channel power amp of 200 watts or more per channel @ 8 ohms.

Those old Radio Shack receivers (I have a couple) weighed more than most mid-fi AVRs do today. And most of that weight was devoted to amplification (Transformers, Storage caps, heavy duty heat sinks, etc.). 25 watts x 2 could sound like a LOT more!

I have a 60 watt x 2 STA 2200 that weighs 36 lbs. And sounds fabulous, gobs of power on demand! Would put almost any contemporary 100 watt x 7 channel AVR to shame for two channel sound!

cnh

dave shepard · December 2013

ADA makes some real nice units. Their AVR is one really sweet unit with ice power that will run 4ohms @300x7 all day.
Look them up, made here in USA and the sound is smoking hot and there would be no need to invest in all the other requirements
like cables and a pre-pro. But if your set for the pre and amp route then your quest starts now with a ton of choices that will do the job.

Dave

msg · December 2013

cnh wrote: »

With that speaker set you could get away with running everything from a higher end Pioneer SC ELITE ICE-POWER receiver. And it would still have the pre-outs necessary for adding more power if you wanted to.

It is generally NOT necessarily cheaper to buy a pre/pro and add amplification than to get an AVR and to do the same. Because most good pre/pros are higher end models made by the same people who make power amps.

The most budget friendly approach is to get a nice AVR and pair it with a USED multi-channel power amp of 200 watts or more per channel @ 8 ohms.

Those old Radio Shack receivers (I have a couple) weighed more than most mid-fi AVRs do today. And most of that weight was devoted to amplification (Transformers, Storage caps, heavy duty heat sinks, etc.). 25 watts x 2 could sound like a LOT more!

I have a 60 watt x 2 STA 2200 that weighs 36 lbs. And sounds fabulous, gobs of power on demand! Would put almost any contemporary 100 watt x 7 channel AVR to shame for two channel sound!

cnh

yeah, I'm not a huge Pioneer fan, at least not car receivers, but their AVR's are growing on me. currently using a little VSX and it's decent, ergo/control wise, so I may consider it. kinda leaning toward a higher powered receiver for now at least, so this is all good info, thanks!

yeah, I'm not sure why the wide spread in specifications for the old vs. new. have to read up on this.

dave shepard wrote: »

ADA makes some real nice units. Their AVR is one really sweet unit with ice power that will run 4ohms @300x7 all day.
Look them up, made here in USA and the sound is smoking hot and there would be no need to invest in all the other requirements
like cables and a pre-pro. But if your set for the pre and amp route then your quest starts now with a ton of choices that will do the job.

Dave

thanks Dave - I'll check these out! I'm interested in a rich feature set with my next receiver, too, so all the streaming service and auto tune stuff.

erniejade · December 2013

I am running a Pioneer Elite SC27 on rti 12 for fronts. Remember if you going to run a sub, you will most likely cross them over around 80 hz. That takes a big strain off of the receiver and it will go louder / cleaner vs running them at full range on a receiver.

For 2 channel, i will say it did suprise me also and was more musical then i thought it would be. You can also use the back 2 channels to bi-amp! I have owned mine for a little bit, ( Thanks again Leroy!) and i still have no idea all of what it does! LOL.

The Mcacc for HT setup, works ok but, i found it better letting it run its things and then going in and tweeking it for my taste. Since it has a few memory banks, I have one for HT and for music i run flat.

msg · December 2013

erniejade wrote: »

I am running a Pioneer Elite SC27 on rti 12 for fronts. Remember if you going to run a sub, you will most likely cross them over around 80 hz. That takes a big strain off of the receiver and it will go louder / cleaner vs running them at full range on a receiver.

For 2 channel, i will say it did suprise me also and was more musical then i thought it would be. You can also use the back 2 channels to bi-amp! I have owned mine for a little bit, ( Thanks again Leroy!) and i still have no idea all of what it does! LOL.

The Mcacc for HT setup, works ok but, i found it better letting it run its things and then going in and tweeking it for my taste. Since it has a few memory banks, I have one for HT and for music i run flat.

yes, I was thinking about this, as well, the addition of a proper subwoofer. I have an old 8" Infinity right now that I'll mess with, but looking into HSU and SVS as well as a few others. what do you run?

holy crap man, just looked up that receiver you run - 140w/ch with all channels driven?!? nice!
and that receiver properly supports bi-amping? I've been reading conflicting points of view on this, but haven't researched the specifics yet provided in a link by F1NUT.

erniejade · December 2013

You can pick them up used. For the $, on the used market, the SC Elite receivers are good!. There is a reason why people recommend them LOL. if your not using channels 6 and 7 through the setup it allows your to biamp

See page 22-27 http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/StaticFiles/Manuals/Home/SC-25_OperatingInstructions0421.pdf

This is one of thoes receivers that you HAVE to read the manual. Heck I still don't understand it all or everything on what it can do.

I am running a older Velodyne spl1200. Subs, there is soooooo much out there to choose from. It all depends on what you like.

For music, a seperate high current amp will do better but, honestly, the rti12 biamped via the 27 isnt that bad and I have heard worse.

BTW F1 is one of the people that recommended a pioneer elite for me.

erniejade · December 2013

CNH, on the older realistic receivers, your right on! My 1st real receiver was a Realistic STA-820. I got it new on a radio shack as is where is sale when they closed it out. One of my friends had a Marantz 1060 and we did a sound off. Everyone back then actually prefered the sound of the Realistic over the Marantz. Many years later when I researched my 1st real receiver and found out it was made by Foster along with several of the TOL receivers thay had.

msg · December 2013

Excellent! I'll add this to my list. I hadn't really considered that there would be a viable market for used higher performing equipment, but I guess people are always upgrading.

haha, man, when it comes to this stuff, I ALWAYS read the manuals!

yeah, agreed, so much equipment out there. it's tough to sift through everything without being able to audition the pieces you're interested in. I think I'm learning that sealed subs are prob more geared toward HT than music, yeah? I prefer the lows to be a bit looser and to resonate some, but then, I'm going mostly by music. Maybe it's a configuration thing, but I feel like it drops off too fast sometimes in music with sealed subs. This is one of the reasons I'm looking at HSU - apparently they're highly configurable. trying to determine what size now, mostly. thinking a 12 minimum. my space isn't too huge, so that may be a good fit.

erniejade wrote: »

You can pick them up used. For the $, on the used market, the SC Elite receivers are good!. There is a reason why people recommend them LOL. if your not using channels 6 and 7 through the setup it allows your to biamp

See page 22-27 http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/StaticFiles/Manuals/Home/SC-25_OperatingInstructions0421.pdf

This is one of thoes receivers that you HAVE to read the manual. Heck I still don't understand it all or everything on what it can do.

I am running a older Velodyne spl1200. Subs, there is soooooo much out there to choose from. It all depends on what you like.

For music, a seperate high current amp will do better but, honestly, the rti12 biamped via the 27 isnt that bad and I have heard worse.

BTW F1 is one of the people that recommended a pioneer elite for me.

Reasearching Amplifiers - Have a few questions for use with RTi speakers

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