Blown Polk LSI-9 Tweeter. Now what?

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grigorianvlad
grigorianvlad Posts: 69
edited June 2014 in Speakers
I noticed my left LSI-9 got a bit shy with the high frequencies. I played a 12Hz test tone and it was silent. I mean the left speaker. Mids and lows are fine in left. Right speaker is OK with all frequencies, highs too.

So I am sure the left tweeter is gone.

Two questions:

1) There are other things: crossover, etc. How do I exclude those as the culprit?

2) Supposing we ruled out other things and it is the tweeter that went bust. I called Polk and they quoted $116 for this tweeter (RD0517-2). Are there sites that sell it cheaper? Of course not looking for a used one. God knows what that one has been through. May go belly up the next day after replacement.

The Polk guy said I should be able to replace it myself - no soldering , just connect and that's it.

What would you guys do if you were in my shoes?

Thanks
DAC: Mytek Brooklyn DAC+ || Processor: Marantz AV8801 11.2 Ch || Power Amp: Audio Research Reference 75 (75W tube) || Speakers: Magnepan 3.5R / Focal 1037BE || Sub 1: REL 212/SE (1,000W). Sub 2: REL S/3 (400W). Sub 3: Sunfire TS-EQ12 (2,700W). || Cables: Cardas Clear, MIT Matrix & Terminator || Power: PS Audio PowerPlant P5 || Headphones: HifiMan HE560 || Turntable: Pro-Ject RPM5 w SoundSmith Zephyr MKIII || Phono: Gold Note PH-10 + PSU-10 .
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  • soundfreak1
    soundfreak1 Posts: 3,387
    edited September 2013
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    Swap out a tweet from other cab. If it works than it the tweet.
    Main Rig:
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  • grigorianvlad
    grigorianvlad Posts: 69
    edited September 2013
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    Brilliant!
    DAC: Mytek Brooklyn DAC+ || Processor: Marantz AV8801 11.2 Ch || Power Amp: Audio Research Reference 75 (75W tube) || Speakers: Magnepan 3.5R / Focal 1037BE || Sub 1: REL 212/SE (1,000W). Sub 2: REL S/3 (400W). Sub 3: Sunfire TS-EQ12 (2,700W). || Cables: Cardas Clear, MIT Matrix & Terminator || Power: PS Audio PowerPlant P5 || Headphones: HifiMan HE560 || Turntable: Pro-Ject RPM5 w SoundSmith Zephyr MKIII || Phono: Gold Note PH-10 + PSU-10 .
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  • ambiophonics
    ambiophonics Posts: 719
    edited September 2013
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    My money is on the 3ohm 5watt resistor in the tweeter network. I believe that one is known to open up or go high in value causing very low level output from the tweeter. I'd try swapping tweeters first as suggested above, if the known good tweeter has low output when you put it in the speaker cab in question I would investigate that resistor (R1 I think). Could be a good excuse to upgrade those crossovers if that turns out to be the issue.
    2 Channel - Polk SDA-2BTL, Carver TFM-35, Peachtree iDAC, Qobuz streamed via Episode Lynk using bubble UPnP server
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  • grigorianvlad
    grigorianvlad Posts: 69
    edited September 2013
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    soundfreak1 wrote: »
    Swap out a tweet from other cab. If it works than it the tweet.

    Thanks, Soundfreak1. I have not swapped yet. Testing with different frequencies. Doesn't make any sense. 12.5KHz is OK on left, but 16KHz is gone. I san hear it in left though.

    It is impossible for 12.5KHz to be produced by the midrange or bass drivers. Where is it coming from (right speaker is completely disconnected).

    What is the crossover on this things?

    How can it be broken at 16, but work at 12?
    DAC: Mytek Brooklyn DAC+ || Processor: Marantz AV8801 11.2 Ch || Power Amp: Audio Research Reference 75 (75W tube) || Speakers: Magnepan 3.5R / Focal 1037BE || Sub 1: REL 212/SE (1,000W). Sub 2: REL S/3 (400W). Sub 3: Sunfire TS-EQ12 (2,700W). || Cables: Cardas Clear, MIT Matrix & Terminator || Power: PS Audio PowerPlant P5 || Headphones: HifiMan HE560 || Turntable: Pro-Ject RPM5 w SoundSmith Zephyr MKIII || Phono: Gold Note PH-10 + PSU-10 .
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  • grigorianvlad
    grigorianvlad Posts: 69
    edited September 2013
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    Never mind. I swapped the speaker wires by mistake. So the it was the working speaker I was diagnosing. The reason I couldn't hear over 12.5KHz is that I am old. My wife could hear everything but 20Khz on the working speaker.

    Trying to swap the tweeters now.

    Thanks for the suggestions.
    DAC: Mytek Brooklyn DAC+ || Processor: Marantz AV8801 11.2 Ch || Power Amp: Audio Research Reference 75 (75W tube) || Speakers: Magnepan 3.5R / Focal 1037BE || Sub 1: REL 212/SE (1,000W). Sub 2: REL S/3 (400W). Sub 3: Sunfire TS-EQ12 (2,700W). || Cables: Cardas Clear, MIT Matrix & Terminator || Power: PS Audio PowerPlant P5 || Headphones: HifiMan HE560 || Turntable: Pro-Ject RPM5 w SoundSmith Zephyr MKIII || Phono: Gold Note PH-10 + PSU-10 .
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  • grigorianvlad
    grigorianvlad Posts: 69
    edited September 2013
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    ambiophonics wrote: »
    My money is on the 3ohm 5watt resistor in the tweeter network. I believe that one is known to open up or go high in value causing very low level output from the tweeter. I'd try swapping tweeters first as suggested above, if the known good tweeter has low output when you put it in the speaker cab in question I would investigate that resistor (R1 I think). Could be a good excuse to upgrade those crossovers if that turns out to be the issue.

    Thank you. How do I upgrade the crossover? Why would I upgrade (what are the benefits)? What are the options (different crossover and where can I buy them)? Is this something I can do myself? I have no engineering experience, no soldering or anything like that. I can take the speaker apart and connect something, that is pretty much it.
    DAC: Mytek Brooklyn DAC+ || Processor: Marantz AV8801 11.2 Ch || Power Amp: Audio Research Reference 75 (75W tube) || Speakers: Magnepan 3.5R / Focal 1037BE || Sub 1: REL 212/SE (1,000W). Sub 2: REL S/3 (400W). Sub 3: Sunfire TS-EQ12 (2,700W). || Cables: Cardas Clear, MIT Matrix & Terminator || Power: PS Audio PowerPlant P5 || Headphones: HifiMan HE560 || Turntable: Pro-Ject RPM5 w SoundSmith Zephyr MKIII || Phono: Gold Note PH-10 + PSU-10 .
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  • sk88
    sk88 Posts: 158
    edited September 2013
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    grigorianvlad wrote: »
    The reason I couldn't hear over 12.5KHz is that I am old.

    LOL... We are getting old and we don't even know it. My sons were so surprised when they found out that I can't hear something when they can. They didn't believe me initially.

    If the tweeter is broken. It is a Vifa XT25 and you can get it here for $32-$35. I don't remember now if it's a shielded version or not. You can take a look at the tweeter and see which one is the right one based on the pictures below.
    non-shielded : http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=264-1016
    shielded: http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=264-1012

    If it's a crossover problem, it's not difficult to fix. We'll get to that point if that turned out to be the case.
    • Online - Focal Solo6 BE, Polk PSW10, Focusrite Saffire Pro 24 DSP, Lenovo x220t
    • Music/HT - Lsi25, Lsi9 (Vr3), Lsi7, LsiC, Pioneer SC-68 & BDP-62FD, PS3
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  • nhhiep
    nhhiep Posts: 877
    edited September 2013
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    wow. can't hear anything over 12.5khz? I thought mine ears were bad when I found out that I couldn't hear anything over 16.5khz. I believe, on average, we lose 1khz/decade.
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  • grigorianvlad
    grigorianvlad Posts: 69
    edited September 2013
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    sk88 wrote: »
    LOL... We are getting old and we don't even know it. My sons were so surprised when they found out that I can't hear something when they can. They didn't believe me initially.

    If the tweeter is broken. It is a Vifa XT25 (shielded version) and you can get it here for $32.
    http://www.parts-express.com/term/xt25tg30-04?srch=XT25TG30-04

    If it's a crossover problem, it's not difficult to fix. We'll get to that point if that turned out to be the case.

    Great, thank you. Is the tweeter on that site the same Polk speakers use, or it is kind of a generic substitute? Is the sound going to be worse by any stretch of imagination? I am very happy with the $32 price, but these LSIs are terrific speakers and I want to use only similar or better parts when they break. Please dont take my words as an insult, just trying to preserve speaker's integrity.

    I have signed up for this forum 2 days ago and got at least a thousand dollars worth of professional advise by an outstanding group of professionals and professional wanna-be's. Thank you from the bottom of my heart.
    DAC: Mytek Brooklyn DAC+ || Processor: Marantz AV8801 11.2 Ch || Power Amp: Audio Research Reference 75 (75W tube) || Speakers: Magnepan 3.5R / Focal 1037BE || Sub 1: REL 212/SE (1,000W). Sub 2: REL S/3 (400W). Sub 3: Sunfire TS-EQ12 (2,700W). || Cables: Cardas Clear, MIT Matrix & Terminator || Power: PS Audio PowerPlant P5 || Headphones: HifiMan HE560 || Turntable: Pro-Ject RPM5 w SoundSmith Zephyr MKIII || Phono: Gold Note PH-10 + PSU-10 .
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  • grigorianvlad
    grigorianvlad Posts: 69
    edited September 2013
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    nhhiep wrote: »
    I believe, on average, we lose 1khz/decade.

    I hope not. If this is true, with my hearing loss I should be at least hundred years old.
    DAC: Mytek Brooklyn DAC+ || Processor: Marantz AV8801 11.2 Ch || Power Amp: Audio Research Reference 75 (75W tube) || Speakers: Magnepan 3.5R / Focal 1037BE || Sub 1: REL 212/SE (1,000W). Sub 2: REL S/3 (400W). Sub 3: Sunfire TS-EQ12 (2,700W). || Cables: Cardas Clear, MIT Matrix & Terminator || Power: PS Audio PowerPlant P5 || Headphones: HifiMan HE560 || Turntable: Pro-Ject RPM5 w SoundSmith Zephyr MKIII || Phono: Gold Note PH-10 + PSU-10 .
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  • sk88
    sk88 Posts: 158
    edited September 2013
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    grigorianvlad wrote: »
    Is the tweeter on that site the same Polk speakers use, or it is kind of a generic substitute?

    See my update on my last post. I don't remember if it's shielded or not now. Vifa is an outstanding tweeter and my understanding was that Polk didn't find it necessary at the time to develop something as good or better on their own. So Vifa manufactured the LSi tweeter for Polk and it is identical to XT25 with the exception of the faceplate.
    • Online - Focal Solo6 BE, Polk PSW10, Focusrite Saffire Pro 24 DSP, Lenovo x220t
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  • grigorianvlad
    grigorianvlad Posts: 69
    edited September 2013
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    Will it fit into the LSI-9?
    DAC: Mytek Brooklyn DAC+ || Processor: Marantz AV8801 11.2 Ch || Power Amp: Audio Research Reference 75 (75W tube) || Speakers: Magnepan 3.5R / Focal 1037BE || Sub 1: REL 212/SE (1,000W). Sub 2: REL S/3 (400W). Sub 3: Sunfire TS-EQ12 (2,700W). || Cables: Cardas Clear, MIT Matrix & Terminator || Power: PS Audio PowerPlant P5 || Headphones: HifiMan HE560 || Turntable: Pro-Ject RPM5 w SoundSmith Zephyr MKIII || Phono: Gold Note PH-10 + PSU-10 .
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  • grigorianvlad
    grigorianvlad Posts: 69
    edited September 2013
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    Well I swapped the tweeters between enclosures. Now right speaker went high mute.
    So, the verdict is in. Its the tweeter that went bust.
    Suffering from a severe case of tweeter withdrawals (shakes and everything) I hastily ordered the Fifa Shielded tweeter

    http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=264-1012

    Arrives day after tomorrow.

    Now lets talk crossover upgrades. What are they? How much (cost and what kind of sound improvement will they provide)? Thanks a lot.
    DAC: Mytek Brooklyn DAC+ || Processor: Marantz AV8801 11.2 Ch || Power Amp: Audio Research Reference 75 (75W tube) || Speakers: Magnepan 3.5R / Focal 1037BE || Sub 1: REL 212/SE (1,000W). Sub 2: REL S/3 (400W). Sub 3: Sunfire TS-EQ12 (2,700W). || Cables: Cardas Clear, MIT Matrix & Terminator || Power: PS Audio PowerPlant P5 || Headphones: HifiMan HE560 || Turntable: Pro-Ject RPM5 w SoundSmith Zephyr MKIII || Phono: Gold Note PH-10 + PSU-10 .
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  • ambiophonics
    ambiophonics Posts: 719
    edited September 2013
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    01_Down_the_Rabbit_Hole-600x400.jpg
    2 Channel - Polk SDA-2BTL, Carver TFM-35, Peachtree iDAC, Qobuz streamed via Episode Lynk using bubble UPnP server
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  • grigorianvlad
    grigorianvlad Posts: 69
    edited September 2013
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    Who is Cyril Helnwein and why is she digging next to a rabbit? I have so many questions about this picture. Lets start with the most crucial one. Why is it posted here?
    DAC: Mytek Brooklyn DAC+ || Processor: Marantz AV8801 11.2 Ch || Power Amp: Audio Research Reference 75 (75W tube) || Speakers: Magnepan 3.5R / Focal 1037BE || Sub 1: REL 212/SE (1,000W). Sub 2: REL S/3 (400W). Sub 3: Sunfire TS-EQ12 (2,700W). || Cables: Cardas Clear, MIT Matrix & Terminator || Power: PS Audio PowerPlant P5 || Headphones: HifiMan HE560 || Turntable: Pro-Ject RPM5 w SoundSmith Zephyr MKIII || Phono: Gold Note PH-10 + PSU-10 .
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  • ken brydson
    ken brydson Posts: 8,650
    edited September 2013
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    grigorianvlad wrote: »
    Who is Cyril Helnwein and why is she digging next to a rabbit? I have so many questions about this picture. Lets start with the most crucial one. Why is it posted here?

    C/O upgrades = rabbit hole... But not in a bad way.
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  • pitdogg2
    pitdogg2 Posts: 24,579
    edited September 2013
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    That is a picture of YOU....YOU just fell into the rabbit hole.......

    better hope that faceplate comes off without any damage to the driver/vc as to use it with the LSI-9's. I know Peerless makes a tweeter that you change out the butterfly/voice coil to repair burnt VC's Never knew why Polk never did anything like that in their tweeters. It is so simple to order new VC butterfly for 6.00 and be done till the next time......
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  • grigorianvlad
    grigorianvlad Posts: 69
    edited September 2013
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    Ok. Sounds like I "don't know what I don't know" about crossovers. Shouldn't even get to into it until/unless I understand more. Fine, you are probably right.
    Let me concentrate on the tweeter for now.
    Do you think this tweeter replacement I ordered will work in the LSI-9:

    http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=264-1012

    Thanks.
    DAC: Mytek Brooklyn DAC+ || Processor: Marantz AV8801 11.2 Ch || Power Amp: Audio Research Reference 75 (75W tube) || Speakers: Magnepan 3.5R / Focal 1037BE || Sub 1: REL 212/SE (1,000W). Sub 2: REL S/3 (400W). Sub 3: Sunfire TS-EQ12 (2,700W). || Cables: Cardas Clear, MIT Matrix & Terminator || Power: PS Audio PowerPlant P5 || Headphones: HifiMan HE560 || Turntable: Pro-Ject RPM5 w SoundSmith Zephyr MKIII || Phono: Gold Note PH-10 + PSU-10 .
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  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 28,042
    edited September 2013
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    That tweeter faceplate will not mount into the LSi9. If you believe what Polk says, they tweak these tweeters.

    You can tell Polk you are a CP member and receive 20% off a genuine replacement tweeter and free shipping.
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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  • grigorianvlad
    grigorianvlad Posts: 69
    edited September 2013
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    VR3 wrote: »

    You can tell Polk you are a CP member and receive 20% off a genuine replacement tweeter and free shipping.

    Thanks. What is "CP" (in case Polk rep asks me?) ;-)
    DAC: Mytek Brooklyn DAC+ || Processor: Marantz AV8801 11.2 Ch || Power Amp: Audio Research Reference 75 (75W tube) || Speakers: Magnepan 3.5R / Focal 1037BE || Sub 1: REL 212/SE (1,000W). Sub 2: REL S/3 (400W). Sub 3: Sunfire TS-EQ12 (2,700W). || Cables: Cardas Clear, MIT Matrix & Terminator || Power: PS Audio PowerPlant P5 || Headphones: HifiMan HE560 || Turntable: Pro-Ject RPM5 w SoundSmith Zephyr MKIII || Phono: Gold Note PH-10 + PSU-10 .
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  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 28,042
    edited September 2013
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    Club Polk! :) - I would ask for Hellen

    Also, not to advertise, but I offer crossover modifications for the LSi9 - feel free to talk to me about it anytime via PM or email :)
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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  • grigorianvlad
    grigorianvlad Posts: 69
    edited September 2013
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    I am looking them up right now. You have a listing on Ebay for Polk Audio LSi9 Vr3 Mods Fortress Crossover Modification, New Design. What is exactly are you selling for $499? A speaker pair with the mods? Just the mods?
    DAC: Mytek Brooklyn DAC+ || Processor: Marantz AV8801 11.2 Ch || Power Amp: Audio Research Reference 75 (75W tube) || Speakers: Magnepan 3.5R / Focal 1037BE || Sub 1: REL 212/SE (1,000W). Sub 2: REL S/3 (400W). Sub 3: Sunfire TS-EQ12 (2,700W). || Cables: Cardas Clear, MIT Matrix & Terminator || Power: PS Audio PowerPlant P5 || Headphones: HifiMan HE560 || Turntable: Pro-Ject RPM5 w SoundSmith Zephyr MKIII || Phono: Gold Note PH-10 + PSU-10 .
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  • sk88
    sk88 Posts: 158
    edited September 2013
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    VR3 wrote: »
    That tweeter faceplate will not mount into the LSi9.

    Trey, are you sure about that? I would want to say sorry to have given a wrong advice to OP and wasted his money if that's true. From what I have gathered the only difference is between plastic (XT25) and metal (LSi) with everything else being identical (including tuning).
    • Online - Focal Solo6 BE, Polk PSW10, Focusrite Saffire Pro 24 DSP, Lenovo x220t
    • Music/HT - Lsi25, Lsi9 (Vr3), Lsi7, LsiC, Pioneer SC-68 & BDP-62FD, PS3
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  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 28,042
    edited September 2013
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    The XT25 is a round faceplate.

    The Polk tweeter is more like a rectangle with rounded sides...

    You could probably make shift the faceplate by cutting off the top and bottom of the tweeter...
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 28,042
    edited September 2013
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    Also the LSi tweeter faceplate is plastic, FWIW.

    The only difference is Polk tweaked the performance of the tweeter and the faceplate shape. They are not identical from what I know in any way according to Polk.
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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  • sk88
    sk88 Posts: 158
    edited September 2013
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    grigorian, I am sorry that I gave you a wrong advise. I will buy your XT25 at what you paid plus shipping. Just PM me.
    • Online - Focal Solo6 BE, Polk PSW10, Focusrite Saffire Pro 24 DSP, Lenovo x220t
    • Music/HT - Lsi25, Lsi9 (Vr3), Lsi7, LsiC, Pioneer SC-68 & BDP-62FD, PS3
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  • grigorianvlad
    grigorianvlad Posts: 69
    edited September 2013
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    sk88 wrote: »
    Trey, are you sure about that? I would want to say sorry to have given a wrong advice to OP and wasted his money if that's true. From what I have gathered the only difference is between plastic (XT25) and metal (LSi) with everything else being identical (including tuning).
    sk88 wrote: »
    Trey, are you sure about that? I would want to say sorry to have given a wrong advice to OP and wasted his money if that's true. From what I have gathered the only difference is between plastic (XT25) and metal (LSi) with everything else being identical (including tuning).

    sk88, no problem even if you did! All advice is always a best effort. You took the time to answer a fellow Polk owner with the best information at your disposal. I am immensely appreciative either way.

    We will find out if it fits on Thursday. From what I see in the LSI-9 base isnt rectangular. It is exactly like the XT25's, round. Even the wholes look like they will align over each other perfectly. The top is taller on the shielded XT25 (I changed the order to shielded cause it sounds cooler but no clue why), but there is plenty of real estate in the enclosure.
    DAC: Mytek Brooklyn DAC+ || Processor: Marantz AV8801 11.2 Ch || Power Amp: Audio Research Reference 75 (75W tube) || Speakers: Magnepan 3.5R / Focal 1037BE || Sub 1: REL 212/SE (1,000W). Sub 2: REL S/3 (400W). Sub 3: Sunfire TS-EQ12 (2,700W). || Cables: Cardas Clear, MIT Matrix & Terminator || Power: PS Audio PowerPlant P5 || Headphones: HifiMan HE560 || Turntable: Pro-Ject RPM5 w SoundSmith Zephyr MKIII || Phono: Gold Note PH-10 + PSU-10 .
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  • sk88
    sk88 Posts: 158
    edited September 2013
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    Look at your Lsi 9 again. I could've said it's round as well because I have many Lsi at home. But that's when I am not looking at them. Now looking at google images, the tweeter is indeed rectangular as Vr3 described. I have grills on them all the time so I forgot what the tweeter really looks like. You can try to make it fit if you like, but my offer stands (see my last post) even after you cut it.
    • Online - Focal Solo6 BE, Polk PSW10, Focusrite Saffire Pro 24 DSP, Lenovo x220t
    • Music/HT - Lsi25, Lsi9 (Vr3), Lsi7, LsiC, Pioneer SC-68 & BDP-62FD, PS3
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  • grigorianvlad
    grigorianvlad Posts: 69
    edited September 2013
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    Thanks for the offer, Sk88. You are a paragon of integrity for sure.
    I think I understand what you are talking about. The tweeters face plate (the piece of plastic that has the inscription "Dynamic Balance POLK" is cut off on top and bottom, right? If that is what you mean, that face plate detaches from the actual tweeter by removing three smaller screws. The tweeter side that faces the listener after that plate is removed is completely round.
    That is what I meant. Did I misunderstand your posting?
    DAC: Mytek Brooklyn DAC+ || Processor: Marantz AV8801 11.2 Ch || Power Amp: Audio Research Reference 75 (75W tube) || Speakers: Magnepan 3.5R / Focal 1037BE || Sub 1: REL 212/SE (1,000W). Sub 2: REL S/3 (400W). Sub 3: Sunfire TS-EQ12 (2,700W). || Cables: Cardas Clear, MIT Matrix & Terminator || Power: PS Audio PowerPlant P5 || Headphones: HifiMan HE560 || Turntable: Pro-Ject RPM5 w SoundSmith Zephyr MKIII || Phono: Gold Note PH-10 + PSU-10 .
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  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 28,042
    edited September 2013
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    The faceplate can be removed but the epoxy they use, according to previous email exchange, takes quite a bit of heat to delaminate. You will be hard pressed to remove that faceplate.
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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