My used separates nightmare (or how I went Emo)
Comments
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I dunno man, people buy Emo because they want new and cheap. Legacy speakers don't fall into that cheap catagory. To spend 7 grand on speakers and power them with the cheapest amp available just doesn't make sense to me anyway. I think Bill maybe dillusional thinking he can shake thousands of dollars loose from the pockets of Emo buyers.
I have to strongly disagree. I've seen many established members on other sites running Emotiva gear on $40K systems. It's not just newer members wanting the cheapest. -
Maybe the sound the Emo has just works with their particular system, price be damned. Let's not discount the possibility of that.Equipment list:
Onkyo TX-NR3010 9.2 AVR
Emotiva XPA-3 amp
Polk RTi70 mains, CSi40 center, RTi38 surrounds, RTi28 rears and heights
SVS 20-39CS+ subwoofer powered by Crown XLS1500
Oppo BDP-93 Blu-ray player
DarbeeVision DVP5000 video processor
Epson 8500UB 1080p projector
Elite Screens Sable 120" CineWhite screen -
I have to strongly disagree. I've seen many established members on other sites running Emotiva gear on $40K systems. It's not just newer members wanting the cheapest.
Totally agree. Talked to a member of another forum who is running Focal Stella utopias with xpa1's. A good friend of mines on another forums is running the xpr1's and some 25k dynaudio towers. That same guy has owned pass, octave, etc. I myself have owned bryston, b&k, adcom, classe, parasound. Its not about money, but about system synergy.
I also hope H9 dont think that dealer price of that pass is anywhere near 7k. I would say it is at least 50% off for dealer price. so thats 3.5k. Thats about what pass sold it to the dealer, and I hope you really dont think it cost that much to make it. -
I dunno guys, I have to disagree too. Anyone with a 40g system and then cheaps out on amps ? Come on now, synergy or not, I find it hard to believe they couldn't find synergy with more capable amps let alone better sound. Maybe they just spent their wad on speakers and had little left over.
Not ment to Emo bash, as they serve their purpose well but if thats the start and end of your amplification search, then you best get a new hearing aid....for both ears.HT SYSTEM-
Sony 850c 4k
Pioneer elite vhx 21
Sony 4k BRP
SVS SB-2000
Polk Sig. 20's
Polk FX500 surrounds
Cables-
Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable
Kitchen
Sonos zp90
Grant Fidelity tube dac
B&k 1420
lsi 9's -
Totally agree. Talked to a member of another forum who is running Focal Stella utopias with xpa1's. A good friend of mines on another forums is running the xpr1's and some 25k dynaudio towers. That same guy has owned pass, octave, etc. I myself have owned bryston, b&k, adcom, classe, parasound. Its not about money, but about system synergy.
I also hope H9 dont think that dealer price of that pass is anywhere near 7k. I would say it is at least 50% off for dealer price. so thats 3.5k. Thats about what pass sold it to the dealer, and I hope you really dont think it cost that much to make it.
Who cares about dealer price, I'm not a dealer so I can't get dealer pricing. In fact retail on the X350.5 is closer to $10K. I was using it for illustration purposes. Knock 10-15% off is about where a dealer will start the negotiation. If you get 30% off you got a good deal.
Way to nit pick"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Puritan Audio PSM136 Pwr Condtioner & Classic PC's | Legend L600 | Roon Nucleus 1 w/LPS - Tubes add soul! -
Who cares about dealer price, I'm not a dealer so I can't get dealer pricing. In fact retail on the X350.5 is closer to $10K. I was using it for illustration purposes. Knock 10-15% off is about where a dealer will start the negotiation. If you get 30% off you got a good deal.
Way to nit pick
Nitpick? Are you serious. The way you bash everything emo on here and you say I nitpick when I give you facts about how much markup is on audio equipment. Please spare me. Your beloved pass, which I think are awesome amps, dont cost nearwhere near what they retail for. It just seems funny to me when you can bash one budget brand but praise the piece of crap called the sl2000. Here is an illustration for you, audio equipment has some of the biggest markups of anything. Price should not be a determining factori in this hobby because all business models are different. It is the reason why svs can sell their ultra for 2 grand and jl, paradigm, velodyne can sell their top of the line subs at a premium. 2 different business models. It is why salk, rogue, philharmonic, odyssey and other internet direct brands can compete in price class much higher than theirs. Different business models. Thats business 101. -
Brock has a boyfriend.......Brock has a boyfriend......nahnahnahnah nah nah ! :cheesygrin:HT SYSTEM-
Sony 850c 4k
Pioneer elite vhx 21
Sony 4k BRP
SVS SB-2000
Polk Sig. 20's
Polk FX500 surrounds
Cables-
Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable
Kitchen
Sonos zp90
Grant Fidelity tube dac
B&k 1420
lsi 9's -
I dunno man, people buy Emo because they want new and cheap. Legacy speakers don't fall into that cheap catagory. To spend 7 grand on speakers and power them with the cheapest amp available just doesn't make sense to me anyway. I think Bill maybe dillusional thinking he can shake thousands of dollars loose from the pockets of Emo buyers.
Yeah, his thinking that is almost as absurd as thinking he could shake only Emo prices for amplification out of Legacy buyers. We here all know that at Emo prices, there's absolutely no way it could sound good. How in the heck did he get to the top of that audio empire of his with thinking like that?! -
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I dunno guys, I have to disagree too. Anyone with a 40g system and then cheaps out on amps ? Come on now, synergy or not, I find it hard to believe they couldn't find synergy with more capable amps let alone better sound. Maybe they just spent their wad on speakers and had little left over.
Not ment to Emo bash, as they serve their purpose well but if thats the start and end of your amplification search, then you best get a new hearing aid....for both ears.
I'm guessing the same goes for people running $10k-$30k systems and using $2000 SDA's right? -
I'm guessing the same goes for people running $10k-$30k systems and using $2000 SDA's right?
All depends, I've heard many 10g systems I thought wasn't much better than 1g ones. SDA'S have a signature sound thats very appealing to many and I wouldn't blame anyone with them anchoring any system. Lots of speakers are better however, and I guess that can be said about any piece of gear. For me personally, If I had 30g's laying around to spend, SDA's wouldn't be on the list. Thats just me though as the example of 40g systems being fed off 500 buck amps is more an extreme case. To each his own though, if that floats your boat. The world won't collapse around us if Emo lovers drive 40g speakers with their amps.HT SYSTEM-
Sony 850c 4k
Pioneer elite vhx 21
Sony 4k BRP
SVS SB-2000
Polk Sig. 20's
Polk FX500 surrounds
Cables-
Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable
Kitchen
Sonos zp90
Grant Fidelity tube dac
B&k 1420
lsi 9's -
The Polk Audio SDA and SDA SRS line of speakers are about about 22 to 28 years old right? I have to question if these Emotiva amps bought in the last 3 or so years will still be working in 20 years. Or in 10 years.... Time has a way of deciding these things.
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Most of the guys here that continue to bash Emo at every chance they get are running at best mid level Polk speakers. Oh but they do have them with fancy pants amps & fancy pants cables so I guess that's the kicker. The level of bias is just out of control. How funny is it that Polk speakers are the brunt of jokes on other forums just like Emo is here. You simply can't use the word audiophile (I just love that word) & Polk speakers in the same conversation. Oh well, to each is own. Now I'll never, ever consider Legacy speakers after learning that they had the nerve to drive them with Emo gear. What a shame...but on the other hand maybe they know something we don't? Man this stuff gets old."2 Channel & 11.2 HT "Two Channel:Magnepan LRSSchiit Audio Freya S - SS preConsonance Ref 50 - Tube preParasound HALO A21+ 2 channel ampBluesound NODE 2i streameriFi NEO iDSD DAC Oppo BDP-93KEF KC62 sub Home Theater:Full blown 11.2 set up.
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Actually, I had a buddy building up the Legacy speakers big time. So as we turned the corner into their pretty empty room at Axpona, I had high expectations of something that'd at least rise to the level of fun to listen to. :loneranger: Those mid sized ones, as shown on that opening YouTube splash, were a GIANT letdown. Left me, and him, totally cold. Not even close to connecting. Now I think I know why....
So maybe powering them that way could have been a mistake on the part of Legacy. So the question would be....did they notice? Did they power with Emo the next time?
I don't have a dog in this hunt...other than the pursuit of music that can carry the emotion and take you beyond electronic reproduction. Did not hear it on that system!! It had highs and lows....musta been a little better than Bose!
CJA so called science type proudly says... "I do realize that I would fool myself all the time, about listening conclusions and many other observations, if I did listen before buying. That’s why I don’t, I bought all of my current gear based on technical parameters alone, such as specs and measurements."
More amazing Internet Science Pink Panther wisdom..."My DAC has since been upgraded from Mark Levinson to Topping." -
"but it still weighs in at a respectable 35 pounds."
I've got CDP's that weigh more than that.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
My Dac weighs 5 lbs than that amp and it does not have the 10 lb face plate
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Two works of ART
To polkfarmboy check out the HUGE faceplates on the Pass amps and see who's are bigger, lol
You guys just don't get it and Never will.
Ok F1 the XPR-5 weighs in at 100lbs NET is that to lite for you?
Most reviews I have read have always in part commented on the Excellent Quality Build.
Why is it so hard to believe that the things you bought over the last 30 yrs can't be built for much cheaper today especially when it's China's biggest import/export..
Why is it always a High dollar value associated to quality and not Greed/Profit, just look at how many cable Manufacturers popped up in the last decade or two,,I wonder why..
ATC SCM40's,VTL TL 2.5 Preamp,PSB Stratus Goldi's,McCormack DNA 500,McCormack MAP-1 Preamp,Pro-Ject Xtension 10 TT,Ortofon Cadenza Red/Nordost RedDawn LS Speaker cables, Bryston BDP-2, Bryston BDA-2,PS Audio AC-3 power cables -
Most reviews I have read have always in part commented on the Excellent Quality Build.
Why is it so hard to believe that the things you bought over the last 30 yrs can't be built for much cheaper today especially when it's China's biggest import/export..
Why is it always a High dollar value associated to quality and not Greed/Profit, just look at how many cable Manufacturers popped up in the last decade or two,,I wonder why.
Excellent build quality and China are oxymorons in my experience of paying attention to Chinese made items for the past 18 years. Yes, 18 years.
There are a very few imported Chinese made exceptions however.
Edit: Also, high dollar value is associated with quality because some of us have experienced the difference a high quality cable can make (or any high quality piece of gear for that matter).
Taken from a recent Audioholics reply regarding "Club Polk" and Polk speakers:
"I'm yet to hear a Polk speaker that merits more than a sentence and 60 seconds discussion."![:\](https://forum.polkaudio.com/resources/emoji/confused.png ":\")
My response is: If you need 60 seconds to respond in one sentence, you probably should't be evaluating Polk speakers.....
"Green leaves reveal the heart spoken Khatru"- Jon Anderson
"Have A Little Faith! And Everything You'll Face, Will Jump From Out Right On Into Place! Yeah! Take A Little Time! And Everything You'll Find, Will Move From Gloom Right On Into Shine!"- Arthur Lee -
Ok F1 the XPR-5 weighs in at 100lbs NET is that to lite for you?
Considering that it's a 5 channel amp and that my 2 channel amp weighs more, I'd have to say it's still too light for me.You guys just don't get it and Never will.
Sorry dude, that shoe is on your foot.just look at how many cable Manufacturers popped up in the last decade or two,,I wonder why..
Well of course you wonder why, you've never tried any.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
You guys just don't get it and Never will.
The only person who does not get it is you, but since you are just a troll the point is moot. There has been more than one explanation showing that Emotiva gear is good, solid entry level gear. For what it is, it works fine. However, if you want better, and many people do, then you need to pay more for better gear. Only a fool and moron would even think that Emotiva is something other than entry level gear. And to even attempt to argue that Emotiva is more than entry level gear, you would have to be stupider than a fool and a moron. Or a TROLL.
With that said, here is a review of the Emotiva XDA-2 DAC. It isn't a bad review, but it is clear that it is in the entry level class. Again, there isn't anything wrong with that, but a better DAC will cost more money. Plus a better DAC will need both a better power cable, a good digital cable on the input, and good analog cables out in order to reach its potential. These are items that anyone with the slightest knowledge of audio will not hesitate to buy even though their total price will be more than the DAC.
http://www.audiostream.com/content/emotiva-xda-2-usb-dacdigital-preampheadphone-ampLumin X1 file player, Westminster Labs interconnect cable
Sony XA-5400ES SACD; Pass XP-22 pre; X600.5 amps
Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers; SPOD spikes
Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR on source, Denali 2000 (2) on amps
Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables
Mapleshade Samson V.3 four shelf solid maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
Three 20 amp circuits. -
pearsall001 wrote: ». What a shame...but on the other hand maybe they know something we don't? Man this stuff gets old.
No...not a sham Phil, but it does get old. I think perhaps Legacy was trying to showcase their speakers as being versatile with an array of gear. As one poster noted, not the best choice. My conclusion is that the average Emo buyer is more concerned about price than sound quality which is the opposite of what Legacy does so the pairing did seem strange to me. If Emo was of such high standards I'd suppose we'd see that name in your sig Phil driving the Kef system. I'm sure they'd have no problem doing it either. Plus you can save a few bucks and put it elsewhere in the system . Isn't that the Emo mantra anyway ?
I don't know how many times we have to say it. Emotiva is fine stuff for when you bust your cherry into the world of seperates. But the deeper you get into this audio world you'll discover a world beyond Emotiva. Doesn't make them bad, just entry level. Like an entry level AVR, it has a purpose and a designated use but can quickly become the week link as you move up the ladder. Simply put, there is gear for whatever level of the audio game you play on, but not all gear can play on all levels.HT SYSTEM-
Sony 850c 4k
Pioneer elite vhx 21
Sony 4k BRP
SVS SB-2000
Polk Sig. 20's
Polk FX500 surrounds
Cables-
Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable
Kitchen
Sonos zp90
Grant Fidelity tube dac
B&k 1420
lsi 9's -
I'm guessing the same goes for people running $10k-$30k systems and using $2000 SDA's right?
In 1990 dollars, yeah. The same speakers today would be considerably more.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
I don't know how many times we have to say it. Emotiva is fine stuff for when you bust your cherry into the world of seperates. But the deeper you get into this audio world you'll discover a world beyond Emotiva. Doesn't make them bad, just entry level. Like an entry level AVR, it has a purpose and a designated use but can quickly become the week link as you move up the ladder. Simply put, there is gear for whatever level of the audio game you play on, but not all gear can play on all levels.
Many people disagree with you. How many times do you need them to tell you that? -
audiocr381ve wrote: »Many people disagree with you. How many times do you need them to tell you that?
I don't care if anyone disagrees with whatever I say, it's the crowd that calls you an Emo basher if you disagree with them that gets my goat. Opinions will certainly vary in a subjective hobby such as ours, and disagreements happen, but calling people bashers because of disagreements is just silly talk.HT SYSTEM-
Sony 850c 4k
Pioneer elite vhx 21
Sony 4k BRP
SVS SB-2000
Polk Sig. 20's
Polk FX500 surrounds
Cables-
Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable
Kitchen
Sonos zp90
Grant Fidelity tube dac
B&k 1420
lsi 9's -
...but a better DAC will cost more money. Plus a better DAC will need both a better power cable, a good digital cable on the input, and good analog cables...
It all point$ to the $ame thing: $hunyata, Yadda, Yadda... -
Exactly only a fool and a moron would need to think they need to spend more money on cables for each of their amps, preamps, cpd or any other piece of gear they own in order for it to reach its potential..that is Audiophoolery.
A.K.A. Snakeoil aimed directly at you Bluefox.teekay0007 wrote: »It all point$ to the $ame thing: $hunyata, Yadda, Yadda...ATC SCM40's,VTL TL 2.5 Preamp,PSB Stratus Goldi's,McCormack DNA 500,McCormack MAP-1 Preamp,Pro-Ject Xtension 10 TT,Ortofon Cadenza Red/Nordost RedDawn LS Speaker cables, Bryston BDP-2, Bryston BDA-2,PS Audio AC-3 power cables -
teekay0007 wrote: »It all point$ to the $ame thing: $hunyata, Yadda, Yadda...
I think replies like these all point to the same thing: You are scared of being taken advantage of............
Why run the risk of spending any money on any audio equipment. Just listen to the tunes playing in your head. That's as cheap as you can get............
Taken from a recent Audioholics reply regarding "Club Polk" and Polk speakers:
"I'm yet to hear a Polk speaker that merits more than a sentence and 60 seconds discussion."
My response is: If you need 60 seconds to respond in one sentence, you probably should't be evaluating Polk speakers.....
"Green leaves reveal the heart spoken Khatru"- Jon Anderson
"Have A Little Faith! And Everything You'll Face, Will Jump From Out Right On Into Place! Yeah! Take A Little Time! And Everything You'll Find, Will Move From Gloom Right On Into Shine!"- Arthur Lee -
Exactly only a fool and a moron would need to think they need to spend more money on cables for each of their amps, preamps, cpd or any other piece of gear they own in order for it to reach its potential..that is Audiophoolery.
A.K.A. Snakeoil aimed directly at you Bluefox.
You say you want civil discourse and yet continue to make posts like above. Then, when someone retorts in kind you complain to the mods and get their posts removed. I think it's high time you were removed as I can't think of one post you've made that has contributed anything positive to the collective.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
I don't categorize bashing as disagreement, because we all like what we like. Bashing to me is when someone comes into the thread and offers up an unsolicited negative opinion to counter an argument that no one was making in the first place, as occurred in this thread (and many others here where this brand is concerned).I don't care if anyone disagrees with whatever I say, it's the crowd that calls you an Emo basher if you disagree with them that gets my goat. Opinions will certainly vary in a subjective hobby such as ours, and disagreements happen, but calling people bashers because of disagreements is just silly talk.
But hey, now that this train has gone completely off the rails because of it, can we just move it to the hall of shame? Because at this point, those of us who are enjoying our Emotiva gear without evangelizing it as the next coming can't even discuss it without the condescension of others.Equipment list:
Onkyo TX-NR3010 9.2 AVR
Emotiva XPA-3 amp
Polk RTi70 mains, CSi40 center, RTi38 surrounds, RTi28 rears and heights
SVS 20-39CS+ subwoofer powered by Crown XLS1500
Oppo BDP-93 Blu-ray player
DarbeeVision DVP5000 video processor
Epson 8500UB 1080p projector
Elite Screens Sable 120" CineWhite screen -
Bashing to me is when someone comes into the thread and offers up an unsolicited negative opinion to counter an argument that no one was making in the first place, as occurred in this thread (and many others here where this brand is concerned).
Give us the example you speak of so that we're all clear on the matter.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk
