OPPO 93 or 95 via 7.1 analog.
pearsall001
Posts: 5,225
Having just purchased a Panasonic 3D Plasma I have to upgrade from my OPPO 83 to either the 93 or 95. Here is my scenerio...I run an HDMI directly from the OPPO to the display & I use the 7.1 analog for audio. My NAD AVR doesn't support HDMI hence the use of the 7.1 analog cables. Now, my use for the new OPPO would be pretty much strictly for Blu-Ray playback. I'm not concerned with 2 channel playback from the new OPPO but my question is whether the Sabre DAC's in the 95 are worth the $500 difference than the OPPO 93 using the 7.1 analog connection? The OPPO says that the Sabre DAC's are used for both 2 channel & 7.1 analog. I have my doubts that the difference between the 93 & 95 would be noticable for BD movie playback. Then again I could be dead wrong & the 95 with the Sabre DAC's would be a worthwhile investment even if it's only for Blu-Ray movie playback via 7.1 analog.
"2 Channel & 11.2 HT "Two Channel:Magnepan LRSSchiit Audio Freya S - SS preConsonance Ref 50 - Tube preParasound HALO A21+ 2 channel ampBluesound NODE 2i streameriFi NEO iDSD DAC Oppo BDP-93KEF KC62 sub Home Theater:Full blown 11.2 set up.
Post edited by pearsall001 on
Comments
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I wouldn't be surprised if you preferred the Oppo to your DacMagic."He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche
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Holy smoke! I was just formulating my own question about the exact same thing. I'll be watching this thread like a hawk!
1C
Well not exactly, exactly but close enough to get the gears turning a little faster.Too much **** to list.... -
pearsall001 wrote: »Having just purchased a Panasonic 3D Plasma I have to upgrade from my OPPO 83 to either the 93 or 95. Here is my scenerio...I run an HDMI directly from the OPPO to the display & I use the 7.1 analog for audio. My NAD AVR doesn't support HDMI hence the use of the 7.1 analog cables. Now, my use for the new OPPO would be pretty much strictly for Blu-Ray playback. I'm not concerned with 2 channel playback from the new OPPO but my question is whether the Sabre DAC's in the 95 are worth the $500 difference than the OPPO 93 using the 7.1 analog connection? The OPPO says that the Sabre DAC's are used for both 2 channel & 7.1 analog. I have my doubts that the difference between the 93 & 95 would be noticable for BD movie playback. Then again I could be dead wrong & the 95 with the Sabre DAC's would be a worthwhile investment even if it's only for Blu-Ray movie playback via 7.1 analog.
How do you have your 83 hooked up now? 7.1 Analog? And do you like the sound? If you are completely and totally happy with the 83 performance, then the 93 is for you.
If you are sorta maybe thinking that possibly you are considering that maybe you are wondering about upgrading to better sound - then get the 95.
H9: If you don't trust what you are hearing, then maybe you need to be less invested in a hobby which all the pleasure comes from listening to music. -
Go with the 95 hands down.
If you were doing everything via HDMI then I would say go with the 93, but the analog section in the 95 is much more robust and it also has better video scaling chips in it (if I remember correctly)."....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963) -
I wouldn't be surprised if you preferred the Oppo to your DacMagic.
I'm not interested in 2 channel playback, strictly 7.1 analog for BD movie playback. Will the Sabre DAC's in the 95 provide superior movie sound over the 93's DAC's? This is the question at hand.Erik Tracy wrote: »How do you have your 83 hooked up now? 7.1 Analog? And do you like the sound? If you are completely and totally happy with the 83 performance, then the 93 is for you.
If you are sorta maybe thinking that possibly you are considering that maybe you are wondering about upgrading to better sound - then get the 95.
That's the question I'm asking."2 Channel & 11.2 HT "Two Channel:Magnepan LRSSchiit Audio Freya S - SS preConsonance Ref 50 - Tube preParasound HALO A21+ 2 channel ampBluesound NODE 2i streameriFi NEO iDSD DAC Oppo BDP-93KEF KC62 sub Home Theater:Full blown 11.2 set up. -
pearsall001 wrote: »I'm not interested in 2 channel playback, strictly 7.1 analog for BD movie playback. Will the Sabre DAC's in the 95 provide superior movie sound over the 93's DAC's? This is the question at hand.
That's the question I'm asking.
For movies? IMO - just go with the 93 and use the savings to buy some movies! :cheesygrin:
H9: If you don't trust what you are hearing, then maybe you need to be less invested in a hobby which all the pleasure comes from listening to music. -
Erik Tracy wrote: »For movies? IMO - just go with the 93 and use the savings to buy some movies! :cheesygrin:
This is pretty much what my research has come to. I haven't seen enough difference to justify the cost. But I am going optical so...
IN light of that I found this article that you might find helpful.
My suggestion is (I am not affiliated with OPPO in any way): If you use a BD player to connect to your HT system through HDMI, BDP-93 is for you. Period.
But, for people who is using traditional receivers, is BDP-95 worth it? Well, that depends.
The main difference between Oppo BDP-93 and BDP-95 is the audio board, however, the difference is not just $500! The difference is HUGE! BDP-93 and BDP-95 have exactly the same video circuits: SMPS (95 comes with isolation) --> video main board --> BD drive. But the difference stops here.
If you are a serious stereophile like me who want to take the advantage of ESS Sabre32, National Semiconductor LM4562/LME49720/LME49724 (all OP amps are one of them), WIMA MKP 5% caps, polystyrene caps and so on. Then BDP-95 is designed for you!
The architecture of BDP-95 is: power IEC inlet --> 2 power supply boards (1 is the same as that of BDP-93's Switching Power Supply, however, the other one connect to a insulated toroidal transformer made for BDP-95. These two power supplies are connected in parallel). I have no interests in reporting the video part, since people already familiar with Oppo's BD players performance.
On the power supply to audio board, there are 4 1N400X type of diodes (which makes modification easy), and ELNA 3300 uF, 50V x 4 filtering caps, and after LM317 regulators, there are 6 x ELNA SILMIC 470uF, 25V filtering caps. The raw DC power then feed into the audio board with 2 x ESS 9018 DACs. On this board, all power supplies are regulated again, and each IC/OP amps, power supplies are regulated, decoupled by a 220uF, 25V elco caps by-pass by Wima MKP 0.47 uF, 100V, 5% metalized PP caps. For each OP amps's compensation network, they are all using polystyrene and metal film resistors! Well, probably I should say all resisters are 1/8 W 1% metal film resistors!
After my baby got burned in, I will probably change stereo parts' caps all to Panasonic FM or Rubycon ones. But, at this time, no decision has been made.
For serious videophiles, BDP-95 is also for you, especially you drive each speaker separately with dedicated amps in your HT. Go for BDP-95.
Put it in this way, I have not seen any high-end audio equipments designed like this level for a price tag under $5000! I took some pictures already, when I find a place to host them, I will add the links later.
Further sound evaluation will come 2 weeks later (system break-in)... I will use OPPO BDP-95 --> Quad 606-II --> Tannoy Studio near field monitor to do the comparison. First listen: Sony SCD-XA5400ES is out!Too much **** to list.... -
If you use the 7.1analog do you still get the DTS-master and Dolby HD master or does it revert back to DD and DTS?
I was wondering because of my sons PS3. My TV has HDMI but my receiver does not. Sony PS3 does not give a straight answer. -
If you use the 7.1analog do you still get the DTS-master and Dolby HD master or does it revert back to DD and DTS?
I was wondering because of my sons PS3. My TV has HDMI but my receiver does not. Sony PS3 does not give a straight answer.
Page 68 in the oppo manual states:
Multi-Channel Analog Audio to Receiver
If the player is connected to an A/V receiver through the 7.1ch or 5.1ch analog audio jacks using 8 or 6 RCA cables (as described in ?Method 5? on page 15), you can play all supported audio formats and listen to them with your A/V receiver and surround sound systems. The following audio format setup options are recommended:
o Secondary Audio: Off (or On if you need secondary audio)
o HDMI Audio: Off
o SACD Output: PCM or DSD (depending on your listening preference)
o HDCD Decoding: On
o Coaxial Optical Output: (any ? not in use)
o LPCM Rate Limit: (any ? set to 192k may help to get the best analog audio quality)
Also set Speaker Configuration in the ?Audio Processing? menu:
Set Down Mix to ?7.1Ch? or ?5.1Ch?.
Set the speaker size and subwoofer properly according to your actual audio hardware. (see page 69)
Enable or select the multi-channel analog inputs on your receiver
________________________________________________
So it looks like you can down convert it if you want, or just send it w/o whatever channels your not using, your call. I would just leave it downmix to 7.1 even if your not using the rear two channels. Its basically the same thing as having a lossless audio capable AVR with only 5 speakers hooked up. Mine still shows its playing lossless not 5.1"....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963) -
thanks Endershadow that help when i get ready to buy my B/R. But it wont help with the sony as it only has HDMI,optical and red,white and yellow video.
sorry for the jack now back to the regular programing -
Just wanted to say kudos on the setup and for thinking outside the box. IMO an Oppo + a non-HDMI preamp gets you the best performance value for your dollar. Really don't understand why it's not more popular.
RT-12, CS350-LS, PSW-300, Infinity Overture 1, Monoprice RC-65i
Adcom GFA-545II, GFA-6000, Outlaw Audio 990, Netgear NeoTV
Denon DCM-460, DMD-1000, Sony BDP-360, Bravia KDL-40Z4100/S
Monster AVL-300, HTS-2500 MKII -
Since I don't own a CDP, I was considering getting the 95 and using this as an all-in-one solution since it does BD and has the Sabre DAC's. However, I don't remember all the answers but it was frowned upon.
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Since I don't own a CDP, I was considering getting the 95 and using this as an all-in-one solution since it does BD and has the Sabre DAC's. However, I don't remember all the answers but it was frowned upon.
From what I've read the 95 would make a great all-in-one solution from CDPs, BR, and even SACDs.
Not sure what there is to frown on unless you would be connecting the 95 via HDMI to an AVR - kinda defeats the purpose of the killer DACs.
H9: If you don't trust what you are hearing, then maybe you need to be less invested in a hobby which all the pleasure comes from listening to music. -
^ What he said"....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963)
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This is pretty much what my research has come to. I haven't seen enough difference to justify the cost. But I am going optical so...
IN light of that I found this article that you might find helpful.
My suggestion is (I am not affiliated with OPPO in any way): If you use a BD player to connect to your HT system through HDMI, BDP-93 is for you. Period.
But, for people who is using traditional receivers, is BDP-95 worth it? Well, that depends.
The main difference between Oppo BDP-93 and BDP-95 is the audio board, however, the difference is not just $500! The difference is HUGE! BDP-93 and BDP-95 have exactly the same video circuits: SMPS (95 comes with isolation) --> video main board --> BD drive. But the difference stops here.
If you are a serious stereophile like me who want to take the advantage of ESS Sabre32, National Semiconductor LM4562/LME49720/LME49724 (all OP amps are one of them), WIMA MKP 5% caps, polystyrene caps and so on. Then BDP-95 is designed for you!
The architecture of BDP-95 is: power IEC inlet --> 2 power supply boards (1 is the same as that of BDP-93's Switching Power Supply, however, the other one connect to a insulated toroidal transformer made for BDP-95. These two power supplies are connected in parallel). I have no interests in reporting the video part, since people already familiar with Oppo's BD players performance.
On the power supply to audio board, there are 4 1N400X type of diodes (which makes modification easy), and ELNA 3300 uF, 50V x 4 filtering caps, and after LM317 regulators, there are 6 x ELNA SILMIC 470uF, 25V filtering caps. The raw DC power then feed into the audio board with 2 x ESS 9018 DACs. On this board, all power supplies are regulated again, and each IC/OP amps, power supplies are regulated, decoupled by a 220uF, 25V elco caps by-pass by Wima MKP 0.47 uF, 100V, 5% metalized PP caps. For each OP amps's compensation network, they are all using polystyrene and metal film resistors! Well, probably I should say all resisters are 1/8 W 1% metal film resistors!
After my baby got burned in, I will probably change stereo parts' caps all to Panasonic FM or Rubycon ones. But, at this time, no decision has been made.
For serious videophiles, BDP-95 is also for you, especially you drive each speaker separately with dedicated amps in your HT. Go for BDP-95.
Put it in this way, I have not seen any high-end audio equipments designed like this level for a price tag under $5000! I took some pictures already, when I find a place to host them, I will add the links later.
Further sound evaluation will come 2 weeks later (system break-in)... I will use OPPO BDP-95 --> Quad 606-II --> Tannoy Studio near field monitor to do the comparison. First listen: Sony SCD-XA5400ES is out!
I don't own the BDP-95....yet. But, from the reading that I have been doing on this unit, SDA1C nailed it. If you will be using analog outs, then the BDP-95 is the only way to go. Hey, SDA1C. So you own a SCD-XA5400ES, and you like the BDP-95 better? In what way(s)? -
RickTfromAZ wrote: »So you own a SCD-XA5400ES, and you like the BDP-95 better? In what way(s)?
He doesnt, the reviewer in the article he posted did."....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963) -
thanks Endershadow that help when i get ready to buy my B/R. But it wont help with the sony as it only has HDMI,optical and red,white and yellow video.
sorry for the jack now back to the regular programing
Can't the PS3 output Blu-ray HD soundtracks as uncompressed 7.1 LPCM (via its HDMI out) that can be processed by the AVR in which case it's very similar in quality to outputting an already decoded signal to 7.1 analog inputs...no?
And/or haven't recent firmware upgrades from Sony dealt with HD sound formats--even for older PS3s?
cnhCurrently orbiting Bowie's Blackstar.!
Polk Lsi-7s, Def Tech 8" sub, HK 3490, HK HD 990 (CDP/DAC), AKG Q701s
[sig. changed on a monthly basis as I rotate in and out of my stash] -
Can't the PS3 output Blu-ray HD soundtracks as uncompressed LPCM (via its HDMI out) that can be processed by the AVR in which case it's very similar in quality to outputting an already decoded signal to 7.1 analog inputs...no?
And/or haven't recent firmware upgrades from Sony dealt with HD sound formats--even for older PS3s?
cnh
Yes, the PS3 can do this.
Before I got my own Oppo 83, I would 'borrow' the kids PS3, HDMI connect it to my AVR, and could play BRs with the HD audio tracks - with the PS3 decoding them into LPCM and send them to the AVR.
H9: If you don't trust what you are hearing, then maybe you need to be less invested in a hobby which all the pleasure comes from listening to music. -
Thanks, Erik
My bad, Pittdogg2. You don't have HDMI on that receiver. I should read more "closely"!
The Oppo is a nice unit but for Blu-ray movie sound only, I don't think I would worry about which model you choose, almost any good blu-ray player provides an improvement in sound and most of us process that through the AVRs HDMIs (internal DACs).
I'm sure if you're looking for an "all in one" the 95 is the way to go. But, personally, I use a tube stage CDP for music.
cnhCurrently orbiting Bowie's Blackstar.!
Polk Lsi-7s, Def Tech 8" sub, HK 3490, HK HD 990 (CDP/DAC), AKG Q701s
[sig. changed on a monthly basis as I rotate in and out of my stash] -
EndersShadow wrote: »He doesnt, the reviewer in the article he posted did.
Correct. This is one of the articles I found in my research while comparing the 93 to the 95.
I am limping along with a ps3 at the time. I haven't upgraded my source components yet after the recent whole system upgrades. The 93 is looking like the one I will be after as I am not that interested in analog.
I am hoping to glean a few reasons for spending the extra 5 but thus far haven't been able to justify it. I am leaning towards a tube cdp instead and the 5 saved from the 93 vs. 95 would be a good start towards one.
1CToo much **** to list.... -
I just got off the phone with OPPO cust service. I talked to Nathan & I asked him to be honest in his reply. I asked the question regarding the audio performance between the 93 & 95 models via the 7.1 analog connection for BD movie audio. I told him I wasn't interested in the 2 channel playback. As soon as I told him that, without hesitation he recommended the 93 to me. He said that the audio playback via 7.1 analog even with the Sabre DAC's in the 95 for BD movie audio would be very minimun at best & more than likely I wouldn't hear any difference. Now for 2 channel playback he said the 95 without a doubt. He said a lot of it has to do with the actual recording of the BD movies.
He said the studios are concerned about the audio quality of the BD soundtrack but since the vast majority of buyers will be using the HDMI, the recordings take a back seat as compared to making a CD. The 93 & 95 players with their respective DAC's can only playback the BD movie audio via the 7.1 analog to the standards set forth in the recording which fall short of a CD recording. In other words he said it's a whole different ballgame when it comes to the audio mastering of a CD. This is where the Sabre DAC's in the 95 will really shine because the source is recorded to a much higher standard because the playback will be via analog & not HDMI.
So it sounds like the 93 will fit the bill nicely & save me some extra $$$$ vs the 95."2 Channel & 11.2 HT "Two Channel:Magnepan LRSSchiit Audio Freya S - SS preConsonance Ref 50 - Tube preParasound HALO A21+ 2 channel ampBluesound NODE 2i streameriFi NEO iDSD DAC Oppo BDP-93KEF KC62 sub Home Theater:Full blown 11.2 set up. -
pearsall001 wrote: »So it sounds like the 93 will fit the bill nicely & save me some extra $$$$ vs the 95.
Thank you for sharing that, you just saved me a ton of cash too since I was debating an Oppo downstairs! Now the question is Oppo 93 or one of the Panasonic/Samsung blu-ray players that have dual HDMI outs (which is what I will need for my next player)."....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963) -
Awesome info! Thanks Pearsall001 you made my mind up as well. I might have to try the analog 7.1 just to compare to the digital optical. Did Nathan by chance mention optical performance at all?Too much **** to list....
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Awesome info! Thanks Pearsall001 you made my mind up as well. I might have to try the analog 7.1 just to compare to the digital optical. Did Nathan by chance mention optical performance at all?
I can tell you from the manual it cant pass lossless over optical, it downsamples it to dts. Passing it over HDMI via LPCM is the best option."....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963) -
There is not enough bandwidth in the optical or coaxial digital standards to pass Dolby TrueHD or DTS Master Audio. Those formats can only be passed digitally through HDMI. Of course the point of the Oppo in this case is that it decodes them on-board and passes them via analog outputs.
RT-12, CS350-LS, PSW-300, Infinity Overture 1, Monoprice RC-65i
Adcom GFA-545II, GFA-6000, Outlaw Audio 990, Netgear NeoTV
Denon DCM-460, DMD-1000, Sony BDP-360, Bravia KDL-40Z4100/S
Monster AVL-300, HTS-2500 MKII -
Just for the hell of it, I hooked my 93 up directly to my Parasound - 2ch analog out to my LSi9's, playing HD Tracks files through a USB flash drive. Not bad
I picked up a tube buffer a few days ago, so I put that between the Oppo & the Parasound. Very nice
It doesn't sound better than when I run the Oppo with my Cary preamp, but it's not too far off.
I had though about upgrading to the 95 (I know my ex-father-in-law would by my 93), but now I'm not sure.
Would the 95 sound $500 better than what I have setup now? I'm sure there would be an improvement with the 95, but if it sounds $500 better, than I'm missing a lot right now (and I think this is pretty good).
Anybody here ever done an actual A-B-A test with stock 93 & 95, analog out?HT
Onkyo TX-NR1008 | Magnepan 1.7 | Polk LSiC | Polk VM20 | Polk DSW microPro 2000 | Parasound HCA-2205A | Oppo BDP-93
2-Ch
Cary SLP 30 Tube Preamp | Polk LSi7 | Carver M1.5t | Audio-gd Digital Interface | W4S DAC-2 | MAC Mini | Denon DP300f & Pro-Ject Debut III TT's -
It would appear that the Op's concerns are satisfied so might I ask a comparison question. Does anyone have experience comparing the 93 to the Pioneer elite bdp53fd? I am torn between staying with the Sunfire pre and acquiring a 93 or going with the sc57 and the 53fd, selling the tgp3 and the 5/200.Too much **** to list....
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If i were you I'd definitely consider getting rid of that NAD and get a receiver with HDMI, the sound is much better.
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If i were you I'd definitely consider getting rid of that NAD and get a receiver with HDMI, the sound is much better.
Yes and no. Depends if the AVR DAC is better than the Oppo. However, there is no denying that using one cheapo HDMI cable is preferable to using 7 good analog cables.Lumin X1 file player, Westminster Labs interconnect cable
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Mapleshade Samson V.3 four shelf solid maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
Three 20 amp circuits. -
If i were you I'd definitely consider getting rid of that NAD and get a receiver with HDMI, the sound is much better.
Like BlueFox said, that is entirely dependent on the DACs being compared. You cannot simply state that using an AVR with HDMI is the preferred method simply because it's HDMI. The only thing you accomplish by running HDMI to the AVR is that you are passing the digital signal to the AVR's DAC to convert it to analog instead of using the Oppo's DAC to convert it to analog. Sure, this uses fewer cables, but which method sounds better depends on which unit has the better DAC. Oppo puts a lot of thought and expense into their units so I definitely would not be so quick to dismiss using the Oppo's DAC over using HDMI.
RT-12, CS350-LS, PSW-300, Infinity Overture 1, Monoprice RC-65i
Adcom GFA-545II, GFA-6000, Outlaw Audio 990, Netgear NeoTV
Denon DCM-460, DMD-1000, Sony BDP-360, Bravia KDL-40Z4100/S
Monster AVL-300, HTS-2500 MKII
