2ch and HT......

TroyD · April 2004

Dan makes an interesting assertion in another thread that I'd like to throw out for discussion....

Who out there thinks that 2ch is dead?

Obviously HT is the hot item but I think it's far from being the mainstream. What I mean by that is, ie, on my street there are oh, 20 houses. I think three, including me, are wired for surround sound. Most if not all, have some sort of stereo source, be it a boombox or what have you. So in absolute terms, I don't think that 2ch is dead at all.

Cheers,

Troy

nadams · April 2004

Hell, no. Even if I had a HT, I would turn the back and center off to listen to a stereo source. I don't like "emulated" surround sound. 5.1 with SACD or DVD-A is fine...

For now, I'm enjoying my vintage Polk sound :-D

Ron-P · April 2004

Personally, I don't think 2-channel is dead, but other then the folks on this and other forums I know of no one that has a 2-channel rig. Several HTB set-ups on my street and that's it.

I've been into HT back when all I could get was 2-channel HT, multi-channel surround did not exist. Music has been and will always be backround noise to kill the silence when I'm doing projects, nothing more.

PolkWannabie · April 2004

Even without including Boom Boxes, Home PC Audio systems, Professional Studio PC Audio systems, Radio, 2 channel is definitely not dead.

Take a look at how many 2 Channel .vs. Multichannel Amps/Preamps there are in the used market at Audiogon. The differences are NOT because everyone is selling their two channel gear and headed to multichannel.

AsSiMiLaTeD · April 2004

I think it's a matter of perspective really...

Are classic cars dead? No, of course not. Can you go into a new car lot and have a huge inventory from which to choose one? No.

To say that 2 ch is dead as a generalized statement is dangerous. But in the context in which it was mentioned (in a thread about a store like Tweeter) it's not entirely off-base. To the average consumer who is going to spend x amount on a stereo setup, 2 ch is probably a low priority. While I wouldn't call the Tweeter consumer necessarily an average consumer, they're pretty close.

That store appeals to a bit higher end audio shopper, but not necessarily the high end audiophile...

I'd agree that in the average market for new audio stuff, 2 ch is somewhat a lower priority in most people's minds...that's why it doesn't sell as much.

Of course there are the auctions all over Ebay as was mentioned, but you have to wonder if that's not people buying HT stuff???

Anyway, I think this is one of those cases where both sides of the argument have valid points...

polkatese · April 2004

Well, 2 ch is not dead in my humble abode. I even use a multi-channel receiver to drive my two channel (the receiver is also designed for 2 ch only use). I don't think this listening preferences is mutually exclusive. In my case, it goes with my mood swing...:)

Ron-P · April 2004

Take a look at how many 2 Channel .vs. Multichannel Amps/Preamps there are in the used market at Audiogon. The differences are NOT because everyone is selling their two channel gear and headed to multichannel.

This cannot be used as a valid example. I myself use 4, 2-channel amps in my HT rig.

PolkWannabie · April 2004

Originally posted by Ron-P
This cannot be used as a valid example. I myself use 4, 2-channel amps in my HT rig.

Point taken ... at least in terms of amps ... But I would think my original statement would still be true in terms of used preamps.

I purposely didn't mention eBay as although there is loads of gear there it is caters to a different average buyer than Audiogon does.

VR3 · April 2004

HT has its place with me, and 2 channel has its place.

For music, 2 channel - most definetely. For HT, of course, 5.1, etc.

As far as the general public is concerned, 2 channel is dead. It will never be what it used to be. Companies like Bose, and whatever else ruined that.

madmax · April 2004

I think 2 channel is continuing as always with the type of person who is into music, listening and equipment. Nothing has changed too much.

Now all the morons who never considered a stereo system in the past are buying HT's both cheap and expensive without a second thought. I believe it is due to the huge displays that are being offered. To most of them it is just an appliance which they can watch movies on and impress their non-audiophile friends with.

I think it is a NEW group, not a switchover. Hopefully in the long run some of these HT people will step up to two channel. This could actually help the two channel market.

madmax

faster100 · April 2004

In the end, its out if "you" yourself feel its out.. If you like it its obviously not "Out".. Right?

In the grand scheme of things, Companies will not stop making 2 channel amps and gear.. Some Ht buffs just prefer 2 channel amps for reasons of failure, if one channel go's out the whole rig isnt down for weeks..

Besides the polk audio forum and online forums alike that cater to the not so typical audio crowd.. 2 channel is not dead..

To joe smoe who just bought a surround receiver from CC, he doesnt even know what 2 channel rig means,

I like both, But use the HT system more and ive found after the few months i have had my 2 channel rig... I'm not useing it as much as i did or thought i would.. Be it just being to busy with the kids and life in general or what..

<Love what you love, and what you have.. Don't let people say its Dead, or the only way either.. If you were the only one in the world who had a 2 channel rig or HT, you would be unique not an outkast..

shack · April 2004

No it is not dead...but it has sprouted a new head and it is called MP3. The days of the average joe going out and buying a"'nice" stereo IS gone. This is the person who will buy a HTIB or similar setup. If kids are buying stereo it might be a boombox...but it is definitely not a "nice" stereo...more than likely it will a MP3 hard disc personal player. Most CDs that are purchased by the younger buyers are immediately downloaded into their computer for further downloads to the player. There are several on this board touting the quality of PC based music systems over traditional music systems.

I prefer 2-channel. I know there are a lot of "stereos" sold (most lowend electronics ie: personal players, boomboxes, car audio, etc... are still stereo)... so the format is not dead. But in the context of what many on this board view as 2-channel and/or "stereo" I believe our ranks are thinning rapidly. There will be some converts and the high-end will continue for a period of time but the new King of the entry level is MP3 and the King mid-level is HT. Even the high end is eroding somewhat. In a MSMA of 750,000 people there are 2 shops that care any mid-fi to hi-fi at all. They both claim that 80% to 90% of what they sell is HT and if they had to rely on stereo they would be gone. Even their best 2 channel stuff is set up in HT systems to show it's capabilities there. I'm sure there was a lot 2 channel gear at CES because it is HIGH dollar gear. Most were in the suites at the hotels. What was in the main rooms? HT, computers, MP3, video, car audio...not high end 2 channel.

Dead? No. Changing rapidly? Yes, I think so.

VR3 · April 2004

I destroyed my boombox........about 2-3 years ago, what are you talking about??

I've gotten about 2-3 friends addicted to Audio as well. They got rid of their boomboxes as well!

But I agree with you in the most part, that is what most people I know do.

I also agree, when I went to hear the X-1, they were in a room with a full HT setup, showing off its capabilities there as well.

As were every other setup in there except for a few.

pjdami · April 2004

I have two dedicated two channel rigs in the house and a HT setup. For music enjoyment, I tend to listen to my two channel rig with my tube gear.

Home Theater is what is selling around here where I live. This comes straight from the mouth of the two local hi-fi shop owners I deal with. 80% HT and only about 20% 2 channel. Most people will spend the money in the HT and also use it for 2 channel enjoyment.

There are the hardcare two channel aficionados like a lot of us here in this forum that are die hard two channel enthusiasts. These are the people that will come around again buying new gear when the time comes.

For the most part, HT setup comes first with most of the people that I know. This is in part due to the WAF as the women enjoy watching movies just like the rest of us especially on a "tricked" out system. I don't think boomboxes count here. HT in a box doesn't count either at least in my opinion.

Jstas · April 2004

I don't have any surround rigs. Everything I have is 2 or 2.1 channel.

Also, up until very recently (last couple of years) car audio has been nothing but 2 channel or 2.1 channel.

The 4 channel setups you see are not surround sound but basically a bi-amped set of stereo speakers.

Almost every TV out there comes with stereo sound as a default and only the very cheapest Kmart/WAL*MART specials are mono anymore.

2 ch is going no where.

dragon1952 · April 2004

Most people will spend the money in the HT and also use it for 2 channel enjoyment.

Until they find out how lame it is anyway!

Actually, I just bought a Pioneer VSX-07TX from some guy on Audiogon and this is the nicest sounding HT receiver I've heard so far for stereo (in Direct mode anyway). A little shrill on some of the highs and a little mushy on the lower bass, but the rest was really 'there'. Not good enough to make me dump my 2-channel system, but pretty decent!
Actually, if it came down to having to pick between HT and 2-channel, I'd take the 2-channel system everytime.

cfrizz · April 2004

I don't think that 2 channel is dead, but for the majority, I think most will get it with their HT gear.

I know that for me, I outgrew my 2 channel Rotel gear because I wanted to expand into DVD's and I just couldn't do it, no more inputs left. So I upgraded to my Denon, but I made sure that the sound was close to equal to my Rotel gear.

Those of us that care about the quality of the sound will get a good HT Receiver that can do all of it well.

It's also what I did with my DVD Player, I heard about the format wars going on between SACD & DVD-A, I simply waited because I knew that eventually someone would come out with a machine that would play all formats.

I have yet to purchase either formats to listen to them! And I listen to most of my music with all of my speakers working, not just in stereo mode.

Also the fact that I simply don't have room to have 2 systems, I sent my Rotel gear down to my brother in MD. If I upgrade my Polk speakers, my brother will have first dibs on those as well.

nadams · April 2004

Shack- I'm one of those kids who rips all their CDs to MP3s first thing (before they get scratched.... serves as a backup). I also listen to the mp3s almost exclusively. But even when they're encoded at 320kbps, I can still hear artifacts, especially in the high frequencies. So when I want to really hear the music, I pop the original CD into my BSR deck and REALLY hear the music.

Also, I keep my CDs in my truck, mostly, because I don't have a portable MP3 player or an MP3 deck.... I do like high quality music :-). Then again, I'm not your average teenager.... I don't have one of those "boomboxes" that claims to have about 50 million drivers per channel and outputs 20kW of music power. I learned my lesson when I took apart my last (and, first) boombox, which was supposed to be 2 way. What was supposedly the "tweeter" was actually just a shiny dome with nothing attached to it.... no wires, nothing. After that one... I never had another boombox-type system. Thank God I got started early....

Ron-P · April 2004

Until they find out how lame it is anyway!

How? Why?

fireshoes · April 2004

2 channel is dead, it's gone UNDERGROUND!

pjdami · April 2004

Until they find out how lame it is anyway!

Just because one has a HT system doesn't mean that it can't excel at two channel in a very formidable manner.

All depends on how "good" the gear that comprises the HT rig is really.

amulford · April 2004

No way in hell. Each has their own uses. Personally have both. As a matter of fact I have three 2 channel setups and 2 HT. I'm going to ptu together another 2 CH very soon, and add to one to make it a WHR (whole house rig). My better half is ready to kill me, but she really likes how it's shaping up;)

Just my .02

Shizelbs · April 2004

2 channel is not dead, just most people don't aspire to have a nice 2ch setup. I think most people would rather have "SURROUND SOUND" than stereo. For the more savvy listener, then there is a real choice in the merits of each. But for the average Joe Bose out there, the feature of having the buzzword surroud sound in their house is the thrill. Quality and presentation is second to features and even cute-ness. Just my quick opinion.

Pauly · April 2004

Good Thread...2 Chnl Lives on in my book as i am enjoying 2 chnl now!

Spaz

George Grand · April 2004

Very dead. We talk it up a lot, but it's quite dead. Between the HT stuff, and the MP3 stuff, stereo LISTENING, COLLECTING, TWEAKING, as we know it, will soon be QUITE passe. Except for people like us. There aren't a lot of us. Plan and hoard accordingly.

George Grand (of the Jersey Grands)

Frank Z · April 2004

Who out there thinks that 2ch is dead?

If you go by the amount of HTiB's being sold, then perhaps it is dying, but then again there's no way to know if the people that are buying HT gear have actually given up listening to 2-channel rigs.

Does HT have a market share of the home electronics industry? Good question, and I'd like to see a response from an industry insider post his/her observations. No offense to anyone intended, but I'm not talking about Sales/installation folks. I'd like to see someone from the Home Office (Micah, Justin, Paul, or "The Man" himself) offer up some tidbits of information.

dorokusai · April 2004

HT is the best, but 2CH does make me wanna put a finger in my ****.

George Grand · April 2004

Can I watch while you listen? Sometimes I like to watch.

George Grand (of the Jersey Grands)

TroyD · April 2004

Get a room, you two. Get a room.....

Man, I feel like I need a shower.

I'd like to echo ATC's comments, IMO, true hifi 2ch critical listening, the type of 2ch that I refer to, is and always has been a small niche market.

When I say that I don't think that the HT craze had much effect on the 2ch crowd that I'm talking about is that how many people had thier 2ch receivers hooked up through thier TV's? I think that the HT craze is a totally different beast.

BDT

amulford · April 2004

EEEWWW!

Sorry bud, that's a ONE WAY STREET (or should I call it a dirt road??):D

mantis · April 2004

I think I need to clear up exactly what I mean by 2 channel is dead......or dieing anyway.

ok heres the deal that made this post happen....

In the Industry,most if not all big players have realized that 2 channel is a dieing art.Not in my favor as I love 2 channel and always did.Home Theater sells 50 to 1 or even more.Most people today don't build 2 channel rigs,HT first then if nessary a 2 channel rig 2nd.I don't make the rules only tell what I see.

SACD and DVD AUDIO are multi channel formats,this is where the Industry wants to go.

As most of you know I work in the field.I worked for 2 very different audio companies and saw a big change over the last 4 1/2 years.

As I mentioned before,Soundex was a 2 channel only ultra high end shop.They sell the best of the very best the market has to offer.Today there sales are 90% Home Theater and only 10% 2 channel rigs.Funny 2 as the 2 channel rigs I have installed for them ,the same customer had a full blown Home Theater as well.

I see why Troy made this thead as he feels that HT isn't the mainstream.But frankly it is.DVD is the biggest media out there right now and growing each and every single day.It's just the way of things.Just stop by your local software stores and see what sells the most.DVD's you'll find is flying out the doors.

Personally I enjoy 2 channel just as much as or sometimes even more then HT.I love music.It's what I'm all about.I'm alittle suprised how the people I meet every single day I work,are more into video then the audio.It's funny how you do a 12 thousand dollar Plasma for people only to wrap a 3 thousand dollar audio system around it...makes no sense I know.But this is the general thinking of people today.

On the block note,I live in a brand new house and the people here out of the 7 on my side of the street 5 of them are HT and none of them are just 2 channel.The others are older people just having a tv,cablebox and vcr for there rigs.....old school I guess.
But wanting a surround system..go figure.

To say 2 channel is dead is strong I know but It's what I see.People losing there intrest.

Ask polk what they sell more of,2 channel or HT.I know the answer to that question.Ask any of your favorite companies.Sony Pioneer,Adcom,Rotel,B&K B&W it really doesn't even matter.Krell and Dynaudio sell home theater more the 2 channel and there 2 of the highest end companies out there.

Us in here have a passion for both,most of us enjoy 2 channel more then HT but own both or a least use the HT for 2 channel.

I like the point made above about classic cars.....

Dan

2ch and HT......

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