Sl-2000 VS. RDO-194 opinions?

paingodpaingod Posts: 31
edited August 2011 in Vintage Speakers
I'm debating weither or not to drop $400
On a set of these RDO-194 tweets.

I have a pair of sda-srs originals which I love

And a pair of sda-srs 2.3 originals with 2 bad 6511 drivers
And one bad tweet.

I've read alot of positive posts about the RDO
"upgrade" but has anyone NOT liked them and prefered
The Sl-2000?

I was thinking about trying them in my originals, and using a leftover tweet
For the 2.3's as I plan on selling them after fixing them.

It's my understanding they are easily swappable? (no modifications?)

Thanks in advance

Also looking for a couple 6511's if anyone here has a couple?
Post edited by paingod on
«13

Comments

  • heiney9heiney9 Posts: 24,148
    edited July 2011
    Look anywhere on this BB to see where SDA's are discussed and you'll have more reading and opinions on this exact subject.

    Yes, they are worth every penny and yes they are a direct replacement. That's all you need to know or get your read on for the weekend.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass

    Pass Aleph 30 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Plus DAC | MIT Shotgun S3 | MIT Z P/C's | updated SDA 1C| SQ Box Touch/Welbourne Labs P/S- Tubes add soul!
  • F1nutF1nut Posts: 44,967
    edited July 2011
    ^ What he said. ^
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


    President of Club Polk

  • Joe08867Joe08867 Posts: 3,935
    edited July 2011
    Ditto ^^^^
    WOW!

    That's like working your way through Katie Perry in order to get to Rosie O'Donnell.
  • geppy1geppy1 Posts: 2,893
    edited July 2011
    It really depends on the system and personal taste. They both have their + and -. Like they said lots of posts about this subject.
    Only way to be sure is to try and if you do not like them you would probably get most of your money back on resale
  • CrashdotCrashdot Posts: 182
    edited July 2011
    There seem to be a few people that are happy with the SL-2000s, but most prefer the sound of the newer RDO-194 replacements. From what I understand, the original model has a flaw that produces a frequency peak that doesn't belong. It has the effect of making the SL-2000 sound a bit more sparkly, but this can get fatiguing to listen to. After hearing the 194's, it is hard to listen to the SL-2000's. In addition, due to the age of the original tweeters, they dome seems to harden which may account for the more brittle and harsh sound.

    If you are in doubt, perhaps you could buy enough for one set of speakers to start with and compare them before buying all of them. I started with one pair, tested them, and when I was convinced I went ahead and bought enough for all the speakers.

    Enjoy
  • george danielgeorge daniel Posts: 12,082
    edited July 2011
    RDO's are smooth,,SL2000's can be painful,,if you do nothing else,you owe it to yourself to upgrade those tweeters.
    JC approves....he told me so. (F-1 nut)
  • paingodpaingod Posts: 31
    edited July 2011
    Crashdot wrote: »
    There seem to be a few people that are happy with the SL-2000s, but most prefer the sound of the newer RDO-194 replacements. From what I understand, the original model has a flaw that produces a frequency peak that doesn't belong. It has the effect of making the SL-2000 sound a bit more sparkly, but this can get fatiguing to listen to. After hearing the 194's, it is hard to listen to the SL-2000's. In addition, due to the age of the original tweeters, they dome seems to harden which may account for the more brittle and harsh sound.

    If you are in doubt, perhaps you could buy enough for one set of speakers to start with and compare them before buying all of them. I started with one pair, tested them, and when I was convinced I went ahead and bought enough for all the speakers.

    Enjoy

    I was planning on upgrading one pair! (8-tweeters!)
    It adds up when your talking that many!!

    I realize there are plenty of posts praising them!
    Was just curious if some people didn't like them?

    I can't imagine these speakers sounding better?
    (maybe I'm just too used to them?)
  • F1nutF1nut Posts: 44,967
    edited July 2011
    Was just curious if some people didn't like them?

    Yeah, we had one crackpot that preferred the SL2000 after adding a 2.2uF cap.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


    President of Club Polk

  • FTGVFTGV Posts: 3,675
    edited July 2011
    F1nut wrote: »
    Yeah, we had one crackpot that preferred the SL2000 after adding a 2.2uF cap.

    His method's were certainly a little unorthodox and I suspect his engineering unsound.
  • OldmanSRSOldmanSRS Posts: 459
    edited July 2011
    After 23 years with the same SL2000's I know they can be fatiguing on some bright material at moderately high volume levels but at the same time bring a nice presence to other less involving material. I have not heard 194's and can't seem to justify spending the dough to buy 8 of them. My gut says the 194's are more correct but the 2000's don't break the speakers for me.

    I've heard it takes some getting used to the 194's after using the 2000's for a long time. Some material seems a little less lively then.

    Regarding Candyliquer or whatever the guys name was, he was attenuating several of the 2000's (near the frequency spike) with the caps and he thought it made the array more linear.
    '65 427 Shelby AC Cobra
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  • TennManTennMan Posts: 1,100
    edited July 2011
    I replaced the sl2000s in my monitor 10s with the 194s. When I first replaced them I thought I liked the sl2000s the best. I was accustomed to that sound. However the real test is when you swap back to the sl2000s. When you do that you quickly realize the 194s sound the best and the highs sound much more natural. I recommend the 194s but I would have to carefully weigh the benefits against the cost if I were replacing 8 of them. It would be a tough decision.
    SDA 2BTL · Sonicaps · Mills resistors · RDO-198s · New gaskets · H-nuts · Erse inductors · BH5 · Dynamat · Crossover upgrades by westmassguy
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  • F1nutF1nut Posts: 44,967
    edited July 2011
    OldmanSRS wrote: »
    Regarding Candyliquer or whatever the guys name was, he was attenuating several of the 2000's (near the frequency spike) with the caps and he thought it made the array more linear.


    He also mounted SL2000's to the doors in his car.....'nuff said.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


    President of Club Polk

  • rromeo923rromeo923 Posts: 1,517
    edited July 2011
    When I upgraded I was so happy. RDO > SL2000
    I got static in my head
    The reflected sound of everything
  • nspindelnspindel Posts: 5,346
    edited July 2011
    F1nut wrote: »
    He also mounted SL2000's to the doors in his car.....'nuff said.

    Oh wow I forgot about that guy. Unfortunately now I'm remembering him...
    Good music, a good source, and good power can make SDA's sing. Tubes make them dance.
  • cnhcnh Posts: 13,310
    edited July 2011
    Switching out to RDOs is also on my agenda. But for those of you over 50? Chances are you can barely hear above 13Khz so I wonder if I can actually hear that bump? lol

    Those High Frequencies fall off fast. I knew a superb studio guitarist with perfect pitch who by the time he has in his late 50s early 60s had lost most of his high end. But that had no effect on the fact that he could still instantly tell if your guitar was flat or sharp and if you couldn't sing to save your life! lol

    cnh
    Currently orbiting Bowie's Blackstar.!

    Polk Lsi-7s, Def Tech 8" sub, HK 3490, HK HD 990 (CDP/DAC), AKG Q701s
    [sig. changed on a monthly basis as I rotate in and out of my stash]
  • RivrratRivrrat Posts: 2,104
    edited July 2011
    cnh wrote: »
    Switching out to RDOs is also on my agenda. But for those of you over 50? Chances are you can barely hear above 13Khz so I wonder if I can actually hear that bump? lol

    Those High Frequencies fall off fast. I knew a superb studio guitarist with perfect pitch who by the time he has in his late 50s early 60s had lost most of his high end. But that had no effect on the fact that he could still instantly tell if your guitar was flat or sharp and if you couldn't sing to save your life! lol

    cnh

    That's me. :redface:

    The biggest reason I haven't dropped a pair in my m10's is after 6 yrs of driving trucks and 20 yrs being an outside tech for a baby bell, I can barely even hear the wimmen in my family.
    My equipment sig felt inadequate and deleted itself.
  • OldmanSRSOldmanSRS Posts: 459
    edited July 2011
    I know my hearing is reduced above 13K. Can anyone recall where the bump in the 2000's is.
    '65 427 Shelby AC Cobra
    '72 Triumph TR-6
    __________________
    '88 Polk SDA SRS 1.2, with upgraded XO caps and Erse SDA inductors
    '86 Polk SDA CRS+
    '84 Polk Monitor 10A (Peerless tweeters)
    '05 HSU VTF-3 Sub
    '93 Carver TFM-35 (just because)
    '88 Carver M-1.0t (just because)
    '14 PGA2310 based custom remote volume control
    '88 Adcom GFP-555
    '88 Adcom GFA-555 (upgraded/restored)
    '05 Onkyo DV-555 media
    '89 Pioneer Laser Disc media
    '89 Sony SuperBeta HiFi media
  • TNHNDYMANTNHNDYMAN Posts: 2,153
    edited July 2011
    ^ 4 or 5 Khz off the top of my head but I'm sure someone knows the exact answer
    2-ch System: Parasound P/LD 2000 pre, Parasound HCA-1000 amp, Parasound T/DQ Tuner, Phase Technology PC-100 Tower speakers, Technics SL-1600 Turntable, Denon 2910 SACD/CD player, Peachtree DAC iT and X1asynchorus USB converter, HSU VTF-3 subwoofer.

  • heiney9heiney9 Posts: 24,148
    edited July 2011
    5dB resonance-peak at 13kHz
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass

    Pass Aleph 30 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Plus DAC | MIT Shotgun S3 | MIT Z P/C's | updated SDA 1C| SQ Box Touch/Welbourne Labs P/S- Tubes add soul!
  • TNHNDYMANTNHNDYMAN Posts: 2,153
    edited July 2011
    Sorry for the bad info SRS, after I wrote that I kept looking at your prior post talking about hearing loss above 13K, and 13 kept jumping out at me. Guess I should have listened to my instinct and did a thread search 1st. Thanks for the right # Heiney.
    2-ch System: Parasound P/LD 2000 pre, Parasound HCA-1000 amp, Parasound T/DQ Tuner, Phase Technology PC-100 Tower speakers, Technics SL-1600 Turntable, Denon 2910 SACD/CD player, Peachtree DAC iT and X1asynchorus USB converter, HSU VTF-3 subwoofer.

  • quadzillaquadzilla Posts: 1,545
    edited July 2011
    cnh wrote: »
    Switching out to RDOs is also on my agenda. But for those of you over 50? Chances are you can barely hear above 13Khz so I wonder if I can actually hear that bump? lol

    Those High Frequencies fall off fast. I knew a superb studio guitarist with perfect pitch who by the time he has in his late 50s early 60s had lost most of his high end. But that had no effect on the fact that he could still instantly tell if your guitar was flat or sharp and if you couldn't sing to save your life! lol

    cnh

    Yes, you can hear the effects of that bump. If you have a couple of notes with harmonics in that range, you can hear the beat frequency lower down. Louder bump means louder beat note, which means it won't sound right. And it'll be that much harder to put your finger on it.
    Stereo rig: couple speakers and stuff

    Home theater: bunch of speakers and a TV
  • phocionphocion Posts: 157
    edited July 2011
    I have 2000's in most of my polk speakers (1C, lots of monitors, etc.) but I went with 194's for the office because I spend most of my listening time there and it only took 2 to upgrade the monitor 10's. My thought was that I could save some cash and test them out.

    Big mistake swapping them out, I really never should have done that.

    Now I have to replace *all* of them with 194's.
    The secret for harvesting from existence the greatest fruitfulness and greatest enjoyment is to live dangerously. - Nietzche
  • ConradiclesConradicles Posts: 5,988
    edited July 2011
    SL2000 sound fine to me for H/T, but 2-channel I would upgrade to the RD0194 if funds allow.
  • dorokusaidorokusai Posts: 25,488
    edited July 2011
    Some folks love the SL2000 but its not many. I keep spares of everything anyways, just in case.
    CTC BBQ Amplifier, Sonic Frontiers Line3 Pre-Amplifier and Wadia 581 SACD player. Speakers? Always changing but for now, Mission Argonauts I picked up for $50 bucks, mint.
  • comfortablycurtcomfortablycurt Posts: 6,746
    edited July 2011
    My SDA 2A's had RD0's when I got them, and I recently won a pair of SL-2000's in a karma here. I've been using the SL-2000's for about the last month, and I've gotta say that I was expecting them to sound much worse than they really do. Honestly, there are some things that I prefer about the 2000's...they have a slightly hotter high end, which is somewhat desirable in many instances, especially if you listen to a lot of bootlegged live music such as I do. I've still gotta swap the RD0's back in and do some more comparison...but the 2000's are really a great sounding tweeter too. A lot of people here make it seem like the RD0's are an absolutely necessary upgrade, but I can definitely say that I could easily live with the SL-2000's for the rest of my life.

    I would have a seriously hard time justifying spending $400 dollars to upgrade to RD0's in one of the bigger pairs of SDA's. Truth be told, I'm kinda getting bored with my SDA's altogether and seriously considering selling them and getting something different.
    The nirvana inducer-
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  • george danielgeorge daniel Posts: 12,082
    edited July 2011
  • heiney9heiney9 Posts: 24,148
    edited July 2011
    SL2000's are almost unlistenable to me compare to the RD0 replacement. They always get strident and tend to "ramp" up when listening at higher levels and there is no getting around the resonance/spike at 13kHz. After hearing and living with the RD0's for years now, I will never own another sl2000 tweeter.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass

    Pass Aleph 30 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Plus DAC | MIT Shotgun S3 | MIT Z P/C's | updated SDA 1C| SQ Box Touch/Welbourne Labs P/S- Tubes add soul!
  • Joe08867Joe08867 Posts: 3,935
    edited July 2011
    comfortablycurt, wait until you put the RDO's back in. You will be astonished.

    People that have not heard the RDO's do not know what they are missing.

    The smoothness they provide and the lack of fatigue they cause is quite amazing. Leave it to Polk to improve a design they don't even sell anymore. That's customer service.
    WOW!

    That's like working your way through Katie Perry in order to get to Rosie O'Donnell.
  • JPSmarioJPSmario Posts: 142
    edited July 2011
    My SDA 2A's had the SL2000's when I bought them. While the presence and resolution was very good, I found that I could not listen to them for more than an hour at a time. Installing the RDO194's maintained the resolution, reduced the 'presence', but more importantly to me eliminated the ear fatigue. I can enjoy them all day now

    That being said, I have a friend who has gone through several SDA pairs (1's and 2's) and seemed to always prefer the SL2000's until he got a pair of 2A's. Different room, different gear, different ears. I agree your best bet is to try them to find out which you prefer. There is such a constant market for both tweeters on this forum that regardless of your decision, I don't see your final cost for getting something you like listening to being that high.

    Enjoy the journey!
    Dual 1229/Grado Gold/Rotel RCD1070/RC995/RB980BX/Pioneer 7100/Denon DRM710/Monster HTS3600MKII/PolkAudio SDA2B/TL's
  • geppy1geppy1 Posts: 2,893
    edited July 2011
    While I have RDOs I find it interesting that there is always much talk about the 3 to 5db peak at 12 to 13khz in the SL2000 yet in the same test reviews if is mentioned they are "completely free from shrillness and stridency"

    Another interesting item is the much loved Peerless has its own peak. Jan 1980 Stereo Review test of Monitor 10s (mine were made in Jan of 80) point out a +5 db peak at 15,000.

    It is also interesting that on page 43 of the SDA Compendium the question is asked are these peaks due to the crossovers???

    100s of thousands of Polk speakers were made between 1985 and 1990 with SL 2000s and I do not recall a mass uprising about how bad the tweeters were. In fact i recall many thinking very highly of them.
    While I am not in love with SL2000s by any means I think they can be right for some people in some systems and have their + and - just like the RDO. The only way to know for sure is to try them in ones own system.
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