Sl-2000 VS. RDO-194 opinions?

heiney9

geppy1 also realize all the sl2000's are going on 15-20 years old, those in the review are brand spanking new.

sl2000's, by many Polkie accounts, don't age well. There is fluid in the dome and it dries out, etc.........a 20 year old part probably won't compare well to a new part. I suspect that perhaps when the sl2000 was brand new it was less harsh and or strident and or shrill. But I would also bet if you could test a newly manufactured (not a NOS sitting on a shelf for 20 years) sl2000 vs. the RD0194-1 the RD0 would still come out on top but perhaps not as obvious.

I lived with the sl2000 in various Polks for 20 years, but I always felt it was less natural sounding and I would get fatigued after about 2 hours listening at even moderate levels. That doesn't happen anymore witht he RD0's

H9

saemark30

A RLC nework in parallel with the tweeters should be able to tame the resonance.

saemark30

Also is there a 3rd party tweeter that sounds good as a replacement for the SL2000?

Joe08867

saemark, just call Polk and order the RDO-194. its that simple.

saemark30

I did but the RD-194 are painfully expensive in Canada

nspindel

Did you mention that you are a Club Polk member?

saemark30

Yes they are $145 Cdn even though the Cdn dollar is stronger.

Vette C6.r

F1nut wrote: »

He also mounted SL2000's to the doors in his car.....'nuff said.

Someone did that a while ago. Can't remember who.

Vette C6.r

saemark30 wrote: »

Also is there a 3rd party tweeter that sounds good as a replacement for the SL2000?

I relieze that you might want to find them cheaper but certain things are worth the price.

You get what you pay for.

evhudsons

I just sent my sl2000's to another forum member in need, and he asked my opinions on the rdo194's. I'm new to this forum so forgive me if I run amuck on posting. I'm traveling right now so I'll just copy/paste my response. After I emailed him, I asked my wife her opinion. She's pretty much with me on this one, so I hope this helps. Keep in mind it's much cheaper for me having the crs+, but I would imagine the difference even more profound in the larger sda's. :
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It’s funny you asked, because I was going to email you to say you may realllllly want to go that route at some point, sooner than later. I was hesitant at upgrading, so first I put in only one 194, then listened to each speaker. The thing I noticed was that getting up real close, the voice from singing or speaking was eerily real from the sl2000, but upon sitting back a bit in a normal position, the 194 simply took over the clarity and depth of the sound stage. The sl2000 was tinny in comparison, and almost sounded like distortion, which I hate. Although I think Polk was on to something back then with the silver coil, I found that as an overall tweeter it isn’t nearly as good as the newer ones.
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When I got really close, and I mean right up to it, the sl2000 sounded like there really was a person in the speaker, very spooky. I will post that at some point on the forums, because I found it striking. *But other than that there was no comparison, the rdo194 was a not just a little better, it completely reinvented the SDA experience and completely sold my wife on upgrading the Polks rather than buying new speakers. It was a marital issue before because the sound had deteriorated and I would tell her not to use them as a shelf and she would point to the faded fabric and finish, but I refused to let them go. I thought that maybe my babies had simply succumbed to new technology. I Googled questions concerning vintage speakers and modern electronics to see if speaker technology had changed as much as electronics technology. I couldn’t really find much, but after finding the Polk forum, much of my questions and concerns have been more than answered. Holy Cow!
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Simply adding the new tweeters was nothing short of incredible. In addition, the speakers are exponentially getting better. I actually get a 3d audio imaging all around the speaker, it is mind boggling. It's not just an ear level imaging, It's completely all around the speakers by several feet or more, up, down, in front, behind, but most incredibly above and below the speakers as well as perfect centering without using a center channel speaker. I'm not sure how that is with just the tweeter change, but I think that the newer tweeters simply blend in better with the SDA drivers thereby completing the desired effect. I had added a center speaker a while back, because I couldn’t understand the speech in movies and compensated by using the center channel, and turning up the volume, further annoying the wife. I got mad when she said “why don’t we get MODERN speakers that look nice and sound good.” It made me wonder if I should augment my system. That’s when I dropped one speaker, separated the mw drivers, then went online and discovered that my Polks could be upgraded. Now I have done away with any center channel as it really messes up the imaging for me, not only 2 channel stereo, but for modern day surround tracks as well. I have the wife sold on my beloved speakers, and she is fully behind me re-doing them and the upgrades. She compared them to multi-thousand dollar speakers her dad had growing up. I’m sure we know that nothing really compares to them, because only Polk for several years made the SDA speakers. In my opinion, my CRS+ will sound better than any other speaker other than bigger SDA’s.

Normally I'm a pack rat, and keep spares of things in case I need them. But I now have the 194's, but plan on doing the upgrade so when I do, I'll still have the 194's left over. I might try and make small speaker enclosure for the 194's, and then use them as my surround side speakers. They sound so good right now, that I can only imagine what the crossover mod and 198's will do. From what I read though, the 198's are the way to go, but the biggest dramatic change was between the sl2000 and at least the 194's. So far that is about all I have done and the change is huge. The only other thing I have done which I noticed really helped, was to use a higher gauge speaker wire to replace the interconnect cord. I will keep my stock cord, but for my living room I didn't have enough length to keep the cord from being seen. I took new speaker wire of 16 gauge, and bound both the positive and negative together and attached it to an RCA connector that I got from Home Depot, clipped the edges off around the center of the connector pin and used that for the main attachment. Then I took the same length of wire, bound together the same at each end, but attached it to flat pin blades on each side and used that to connect the blade portion. I read two different things. One is that the blade was simply to give better support, but read somewhere else that while true, the blade portion was connected inside the speaker, possibly a negative connection? Not sure, but I did it anyway, and the extra gauge really did make a noticeable improvement in the imaging. Maybe that was the reason for the 3d imaging improvement, and the tweeters may simply be bringing it all together for a complete experience.

I would be curious though, if there was a way Polk could have blended the styles of the sl2000 and the newer tweeters. I was worried that the newer ones wouldn't be as clear, as most described the sl2000 as being brighter, the 194 and 198 as being smoother. I like clarity, so I was apprehensive. I find the 194's to be vastly clearer, even with voices although I did notice the useless novelty of the close up voice realism on the sl2000.
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So to some up my opinion:
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Sl2000:
Tinny, bright yet like a raspy rattlesnake and not clear, just bright. Voice up close (inches away) very good, but I don’t listen to them that way. From sitting distance voice hardly noticeable or audible and I would have to turn up the volume or use a center channel speaker. They work, just not nearly as well as the:
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RDO 194: Clear, smooth, no distortion, I don’t have to have a center channel speaker. In fact, the imaging now for the center track is the way it is supposed to be, moving back and forth centered properly. I hear the voices, instruments etc, life like, and it’s getting better every time I listen. I thought it was my imagination and excitement, but have read on the forums I am going through burn in time. It’s been over 50 hours, and they still are getting better. Horns are now horns, trumpets trumpet. Singers croon, and I can hear so much detail I know I have never listened to music like this, and my CRS+ NEVER sounded this good even new!
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Any thought about going back are long long gone. I wish I had done this years ago. Not only have they improved the speakers, my music loving life has come back, and I am now upgrading everything, pulling out the old records and tapes, downloading flac files, and having an all around great time.

So for me, there is no going back, and if you do any upgrades at all, I would start with the tweeters and larger interconnect cable. The other mods were not in my time schedule or budget for the past month, but soon I will be doing a completed upgrade on my speakers, with all the recommendations given by Polk forum members. It's easier for me, because the CRS+ only has two crossovers and two tweeters. Since I have tried the RDO 194’s, and am about to upgrade again to the rdo198 with modded crossovers, I can let you know soon how that goes. I am thinking that you may want to just go for the RDO198’s simply because they cost about the same, and you should probably mod the crossovers too, so your happy level will be really high. If you are like I was, the rdo194 is a simple drop in upgrade and you don’t have to do the crossovers. But either way, I would be shocked if you weren’t shocked what your speakers would sound like after putting in the rdo194’s or rdo198’s.
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The reason my response is so long, is that I want you to upgrade your tweeters and hear what I hear. I’m sending out the sl2000 tomorrow, so you should get them by Monday at the latest. In the meantime, enjoy them while you set aside an SDA love fund for going the next level soon.

My next step will be the crossovers, rings, dynamat, mortite, stands with spikes, and a new veneer along with the 198's.

I used to live in Tallahassee, and went to Ichetucknee springs quite a bit. You are right in between warring nations of Noles and Gators. I’m a big Nole fan. The war chant and FSU Marching Chiefs Drum sequence is awesome on the speakers.



After proof reading all the above, maybe I'll post that to your thread with your permission in case it helps someone else make the proper decisions.

heiney9

Evhudson, I think we all told you that about the RD0's . When I first joined I was just as hesitant as most who first come here. I am glad I decided to try the RD0's because the difference is night and day.

Good luck with the rest of your restoration/upgrades.

H9

nspindel

evhudsons wrote: »

My next step will be the crossovers, rings, dynamat, mortite, stands with spikes, and a new veneer along with the 198's.

Nice! Quite a next step!

I read that entire post, very nice write up. I certainly think that a lot of the improvements you're seeing in imaging are the result of the better SDA connection. The good thing about the order that you've done these mods is that even though you'll be replacing your replacement tweeters, you'll be able to sell them and get back most of what you spent. But they allowed you to get a taste for how great these speakers can sound once you start making improvements to them.

One piece of advice. Forget the mortite. Go with Armacell. I just did it this past weekend to my 1C's.

Otherwise, go to town dude...

inspiredsports

I prefer RDO 194's direct from Polk. As your handle is "paingod", your tastes may vary :biggrin:

michaeljhsda2

nspindel wrote: »

Forget the mortite. Go with Armacell

You got that right! Armacell is leagues better that Mortite. It's so much easier to install and it's similar to the original gaskets (just a bit thicker). If anyone has ever installed mortite you know how much of a PITA it is to install it. With the Armacell, you cut it into strips with a razor knife, unpeel and stick it. Poke holes for the screws and install. It's that easy.

heiney9

Never had a problem with Mortite, installing, removing, etc. I may try another suggestion like Armacell just to try something different when I do my 1C's, but not because I am unhappy with Mortite.

H9

saemark30

Has anyone done "frequency measurements" of the RD0-194?

Joe08867

saemark30 wrote: »

Has anyone done "frequency measurements" of the RD0-194?

Dude, Really? Try the search function.

saemark30

It must not be working properly.
I search for RD0-194 and RDO-194 with no hits.

Joe08867

Try it without the dash. In either case nobody has the specs as they are proprietary and Polk did not release them to the public.

prsartist3

heiney9 wrote: »

geppy1 also realize all the sl2000's are going on 15-20 years old, those in the review are brand spanking new.

sl2000's, by many Polkie accounts, don't age well. There is fluid in the dome and it dries out, etc.........a 20 year old part probably won't compare well to a new part. I suspect that perhaps when the sl2000 was brand new it was less harsh and or strident and or shrill. But I would also bet if you could test a newly manufactured (not a NOS sitting on a shelf for 20 years) sl2000 vs. the RD0194-1 the RD0 would still come out on top but perhaps not as obvious.

H9

Great point!

Maybe im so used to them, (and the way they sound) that its hard to remember what they sounded like 15 years ago?

evhudsons

thanks to all for recommending me the rdo upgrades, and the incredible lists of things to do. I think the last post made a good point too, who knows how they sounded 20 years ago compared to now. Either way, there is no going back and as you say, they are night and day.

I think you are right about the better interconnect helping with the spatial increase.

The tweeters are awesome. Next week I'll mod the crossovers and jump to the 198's, and then I can give my opinion on that change.

I must be in hour 600 now, seriously, and they are still getting ridiculously better. These speakers, "bookshelf", are better now than a $20,000 system I experienced in a home theater store.

nspindel

Heh. You haven't even done the xo's yet. You are going to be one happy fella!

comfortablycurt

michaeljhsda2 wrote: »

You got that right! Armacell is leagues better that Mortite. It's so much easier to install and it's similar to the original gaskets (just a bit thicker). If anyone has ever installed mortite you know how much of a PITA it is to install it. With the Armacell, you cut it into strips with a razor knife, unpeel and stick it. Poke holes for the screws and install. It's that easy.

I can't say that my experiences with Mortite were anything like yours. Installing it was a breeze. Just peeled the strips off, cut them to length and applied them to the backs of the drivers. I had no complaints, and it took next to no time. The audible difference that this damn near free mod resulted in was quite impressive too.

michaeljhsda2

comfortablycurt wrote: »

I can't say that my experiences with Mortite were anything like yours. Installing it was a breeze. Just peeled the strips off, cut them to length and applied them to the backs of the drivers. I had no complaints, and it took next to no time. The audible difference that this damn near free mod resulted in was quite impressive too.

You didn't roll it out flat first? I tried it the way you described and the force that it took to seat the driver caused the threaded wood inserts to come out of the cabinet. The solution was to roll out each strip.

michaeljhsda2

The mortite wouldn't stick to the driver very well as I was putting it in the cabinet. Then multiply that by 16 drivers because I was installing them in 1.2TL's.

heiney9

michaeljhsda2 wrote: »

You didn't roll it out flat first? I tried it the way you described and the force that it took to seat the driver caused the threaded wood inserts to come out of the cabinet. The solution was to roll out each strip.

michaeljhsda2 wrote: »

The mortite wouldn't stick to the driver very well as I was putting it in the cabinet. Then multiply that by 16 drivers because I was installing them in 1.2TL's.

Never had tha problem with Mortite. I put it on the driver and before **** it in, I put equal force on the drivers with my hands to help set the Mortite. Then I screwed them down in a criss-cross tightening pattern, as anyone should do regardless.

I recently pulled all the drivers after almost 2 years to install Larry's rings and the Mortite stayed firmly attached to the drivers and it was a very clean pull on the drivers. Didn't leave any Mortite on the baffle and the Mortite didn't take any chunks of baffle when I released the drivers.

Perfect.

H9

michaeljhsda2

heiney9 wrote: »

Never had tha problem with Mortite. I put it on the driver and before **** it in, I put equal force on the drivers with my hands to help set the Mortite. Then I screwed them down in a criss-cross tightening pattern, as anyone should do regardless.

I recently pulled all the drivers after almost 2 years to install Larry's rings and the Mortite stayed firmly attached to the drivers and it was a very clean pull on the drivers. Didn't leave any Mortite on the baffle and the Mortite didn't take any chunks of baffle when I released the drivers.

Perfect.

H9

I did the criss-cross tightening and the drivers seated just fine in most instances. The mortite worked fine once it was installed, it was just aggravating because the threaded inserts were stripping out of the MDF on a few of the drivers. That problem is now solved by installing hurricane nuts.Did you remove the gasket before applying the mortite? I kept the gasket on and then put mortite over that...that's probably why I had difficulty with it.

heiney9

michaeljhsda2 wrote: »

I did the criss-cross tightening and the drivers seated just fine. Did you remove the gasket before applying the mortite? I kept the gasket on and then put mortite over that...that's probably why I had difficulty with it. The mortite worked fine once it was installed, it was just aggravating because the threaded inserts were stripping out of the MDF on a few of the drivers. That problem is now solved by installing hurricane nuts.

My gaskets were pretty much dust, so no, I just used the Mortite.

H9

comfortablycurt

michaeljhsda2 wrote: »

You didn't roll it out flat first? I tried it the way you described and the force that it took to seat the driver caused the threaded wood inserts to come out of the cabinet. The solution was to roll out each strip.

No, I didn't. I just put it on the driver as it came. I gradually tightened the drivers down over a period of 3 days or so. I criss-cross patterned them until they were seated very snugly, without killing them. I found that over the next few days I was able to tighten the screws an extra half turn or so once a day as the Mortite flattened and settled. I had no issues with it.

michaeljhsda2 wrote: »

I did the criss-cross tightening and the drivers seated just fine in most instances. The mortite worked fine once it was installed, it was just aggravating because the threaded inserts were stripping out of the MDF on a few of the drivers. That problem is now solved by installing hurricane nuts.Did you remove the gasket before applying the mortite? I kept the gasket on and then put mortite over that...that's probably why I had difficulty with it.

You used Mortite over the original gaskets? That kind of defeats the purpose. You want the Mortite to bond the driver directly to the baffle to create that solid, air tight connection. My original gaskets were all in good shape on my SDA's, and I actually still have them all...but I didn't reuse any of them.

michaeljhsda2

comfortablycurt wrote: »

You used Mortite over the original gaskets?

Yeah, that's before I knew just a little bit less than I do now