Power Cable Question

digitalvideo · January 2011

DMara wrote: »

When you called people whose thought wasn't similar to you "stupid" and labeled them as a girl/woman, you should know you already lost your argument Present your opinion, but do not fall into the personal attack mode. Unfortunately you fell into that classless hole quite fast

Well last night it was actually you who first personally attacked me out of no where.

Oh the hypocrisy, but you can sit there and try to pretend you're the little innocent witty angel who sits in the corner and chimes in every once and a while to get the teacher to give you a cookie. It's kinda cute, I like your chat shtick here.

DMara wrote:

Whatever that made you upset, whether it was you didn't have enough money to spend in this hobby like others, or that your mom/wife/girlfriend was bitching so much that you felt you have to pour your anger on others, deal with it and man up :biggrin:

Please don't put your financial problems on me, the U.S. and Europe are already depending on China to bail us out because of people like you and the other OCD'ers on here.

DMara · January 2011

digitalvideo wrote: »

Well last night it was actually you who first personally attacked me out of no where. Oh the hypocrisy, but you can sit there and try to pretend you're the little innocent witty angel who sits in the corner and chimes in every once and a while to get the teacher to give you a cookie. It's kinda cute, I like your chat shtick here.

Please don't put your financial problems on me, the U.S. and Europe are already depending on China to bail us out because of people like you and the other OCD'ers on here.

I know there's no way to enlighten you, and it's kinda entertaining watching you go down dramatically with your "informative" debate

Don't worry for me, I'm enjoying my AV setup right now, listening to quality audio output thanks to the speaker and power cables I've been collecting

, and surely, China is baling me out since I am also buying a new DAC which was built from the mainland China for my PC music server :biggrin:

digitalvideo · January 2011

DMara wrote: »

I know there's no way to enlighten you, and it's kinda entertaining watching you go down dramatically with your "informative" debate

Don't worry for my, I'm enjoying my AV setup right now, listening to quality audio output thanks to the speaker and power cables I've been collecting , and surely, China is baling me out since I am also buying a new DAC which was built from the mainland China for my PC music server :biggrin:

First to enlighten others you first need to be enlightened, whatever school you got "educated" in it didn't work, I suggest to get your money back and stop the pretentious elitist attitude and be yourself. You might fit in over at the George Soros funded Huffingtonpost, Moveon.org, DailyKos, MediaMatters, MSNBC crowd. Enjoy sipping the wine by the fire and romancing about the wonders of French socialism and Karl Marx. :biggrin:

http://politicaldemotivation.files.wordpress.com/2008/04/keith_olbermann.jpg

ben62670 · January 2011

DV I see you making references to mega dollar cables, but you don't need to spend mega bucks to see performance gains. I have only read a few of your posts which was a few too many. It gets old hat. Try some used cables for yourself. If you don't like them sell them at little loss, or even a gain.
*Yawn*

digitalvideo · January 2011

ben62670 wrote: »

DV I see you making references to mega dollar cables, but you don't need to spend mega bucks to see performance gains. I have only read a few of your posts which was a few too many. It gets old hat. Try some used cables for yourself. If you don't like them sell them at little loss, or even a gain.
*Yawn*

Thank you, finally someone who can give a reasonable opinion.

Do you mind telling which companies make affordable power cords that are known to make performance gains?

inspiredsports · January 2011

http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=88432

I love this, an old 2009 dv post wherein he feels the need to trade up because his rather expensive 7.1 system just doesn't seem to be quite expensive enough. The effete A/V magazine he reads at that time (while sipping a nice Riesling by the fire?) evidently doesn't rate the Polks highly enough to give him the mortgage busting bragging rights he desires.

digitalvideo · January 2011

inspiredsports wrote: »

http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=88432

I love this, an old 2009 dv post wherein he feels the need to trade up because his rather expensive 7.1 system just doesn't seem to be quite expensive enough. The effete A/V magazine he reads at that time (while sipping a nice Riesling by the fire?) evidently doesn't rate the Polks highly enough to give him the mortgage busting bragging rights he desires.

Yes, that was when I was first putting together my first home theater, first I needed to renovate my entire basement into a living area and upstairs main room to decide where to put my HT. There are some threads on here about my almost disaster situation with a electrician who wired my basement with AFCI's and only installed one circuit and connected the recessed ceiling lights on a dimmer and hallway light on a 15 amp circuit on 14 gauge wire that caused the AFCI breaker to trip, he wired everything according to NEC but he never wired a home theater before and didn't understand about multiple dedicated circuits for HT. I am not a electrician so I needed advice on this so the electricians over on the "Basic Hookup/Wiring" section helped me out on that who actually know what they're talking about. They also didn't recommend $5,000 dollar receptacles and $5,000 dollar circuit wires. Just basic Romex that can be bought at Home Depot or Lowe's that multi-million dollar home theaters use. lol

After getting some help from "some" people on here who are actually knowledgable and from the Natural Sound http://www.natural-sound.com/ I moved up to the Definitive Technology Mythos ST which according to Sound&Vision and many other review sites for home theaters out performs speakers costing over $10k a pair all with my Belden/Bluejeans speaker wires, sub wire and HDMI's. :biggrin:

But everything was well within my budget and the house is all paid for.

blueboxer · January 2011

digitalvideo wrote: »

If you want to spend a ridiculous amount of money on materialistic and superficial things that aren't important to one's survival then go ahead, but you have no right to then whine and complain about health insurance prices and say you can't afford health insurance or it's too expensive, you can't afford your mortgage etc, because your stupid priorities are out of touch with most common sense straight thinking people on this planet especially in a world wide recession. It's people like you as to why we had a housing crisis because people weren't living within their means, spending recklessly on things they didn't need then these same idiots blame the banks and insurance companies for the debt they put themselves in on their own. People like "YOU" are to blame for putting the banks and mortgage companies in this position to begin with. LOL! So stupid!

How does everyone's finances keep getting dragged into this? I for one, probably do spend more than what most people would consider a reasonable amount on home electronics, heck I have even spent thousands on vehicle modifications, but they provide me a lot of enjoyment. I actually have no issue spending several thousand dollars on a set of speakers that will provide me some enjoyment and entertainment. Sure, my polk iSonic or a Bose system would probably be adequate to entertain guests during a party or spruce up movies that extra notch or two, but I enjoy the journey of trying out different setups and tweaks. Do all of them add up to what I paid for them? Probably not, but I constantly like hearing the subtle differences in various components and it is part of the hobby to me.

Changing our cables, power cords, conditioners, etc... to me is far cheaper than constantly changing our processors or speakers at the rate I was and if they offer small changes, then to me I find it worth it. The amount of listening I do justifies those expenses more so than the bike I just ordered that will probably be rode a couple times a month, but guess what? That is worth it to me as well because I get enjoyment out of it as well. That is my prerogative and it is also what helps keep people employed. Does that mean I am going to buy the $2200 HDMI cable or the $1000 power cord? Absolutely not, we are focusing on the extreme end of the spectrum, but I am considering more reasonable offerings from Signal, Pangea, or Audioquest. The same goes for HDMI cables.

I have bought my fair share of monoprice cables and they perform adequately, but they have also had a fairly high failure rate in my experience. The MIT cables I purchased appear beautifully made and IMO the audio was improved. However, overall I appreciate the quality difference more so than anything else and any performance attributes are secondary. I didn't expect a vail to be lifted from the audio or video performance, but nor did I spend enough to expect that IMO. That is just basic consumerism, people determine the value of a product or item by voting with their dollars. The basic water versus diamond concept. Some people are willing to spend more for a more elite, better looking, perceived quality, or even for minuscule improvements where the cost-benefit ratio is still beneficial for that particular person.

If the spending of another person or my own spending offends someone, oh well. I find the idea of spending $5 on cheap beer at a bar silly, but to others it is worth the enjoyment they receive from it. As long as I am meeting my financial goals and that person drives sober, the world is right in my eyes. If anything, I think I am now more inclined to try some of the basic offerings from aftermarket power cord companies just to hear for myself. I don't see this hobby or someone else with a similar hobby really being the source of all their economic woes or shortfalls. Well, unless their hobby is narcotics, but I doubt an addict would have the patience to sit in a listening room long enough to select anything.

All of this reminds me of watching a guy buy two brand new Mercedes Benz for his wife and daughter. By the time I had narrowed down which cars I wanted to test drive he had selected two cars and wrote a check for everything. I must of looked rather perplexed to the point that my salesman told me that the customer was a regular and often upgraded his families vehicles when the new models came out and was quite wealthy. His purchase of two cars was akin to me going into Nordstroms and buying two nice shirts. It was a two shirt day for him on the way home as I would imagine some of these higher end audio components or tweaks.

So, why get all in a huff over someone else's preferences or spending habits? It is all relative and part of what keeps the economy going as a whole. I myself am ignorant in most engineering disciplines, whether it be electric or mechanical. However, knowing how a speaker works or a car is able to go into motion doesn't add or subtract from my ability to enjoy it and that, in essence, is the only true judgement that matters.

ben62670 · January 2011

I use Pangea Audio's power cables with a nice audible improvement. BTW there are plenty of reasonable opinions here. You just seem to lump them into have more money than brains category. I used to think that way till I opened my mind and actually tried them for myself. As far as cable upgrades the IC's are the most noticeable. Then speaker cables. Then power cables.

digitalvideo · January 2011

blueboxer just to let you know quickly, I didn't read your post and I'm not gonna, I stopped right after the first sentence. Congratulations on wasting all that time. :cool::biggrin:

inspiredsports · January 2011

That's great, dv!

Yep, your signature contained gear would finance a nice car or two. Even gear that is esoteric enough that it's carried by dealers that don't publish prices. But then all of the sudden you erased the Signature and went ballistic on cables that could be considered chump change.

Hmmmmmm . . .

Mains: Anthony Gallo Reference 3.1
Preamp: Modwright SWL9.0SE
Amps: Butler TBD2250, PS Audio Trio
PrePro: Cary Cinema 6, Outlaw 990
DAC: Benchmark DAC1
Universal Player: Denon 2900
Cables: StraightWire Encore II, Kimber Hero, Audioquest Type 4, CV-8, Columbia DBS
Power Conditioner: Belkin PF60

inspiredsports · January 2011

Then it got stranger yet (you silly Monster, you) . . . . Identical signature.

Hmmmm . . . .

About venomclan
Joined July 2001

Location
Fort Lauderdale, FL
Interests
Audio, Cars, Women...Order of importance varies on mood.
Occupation
Marketing Manager

Signature
Let me tell you something about life, around every corner monsters await. I know, I am one.

If I owned hell and this place, I would rent this place out and live in hell.

Mains: Anthony Gallo Reference 3.1
Preamp: Modwright SWL9.0SE
Amps: Butler TBD2250, PS Audio Trio
PrePro: Cary Cinema 6, Outlaw 990
DAC: Benchmark DAC1
Universal Player: Denon 2900
Cables: StraightWire Encore II, Kimber Hero, Audioquest Type 4, CV-8, Columbia DBS
Power Conditioner: Belkin PF60

ben62670 · January 2011

DV is just a troll trying to get a rise out of us. Another for the bozo list.

Edit: Venom is the Polkie who introduced me to better cables:eek: Is that you "J"?

inspiredsports · January 2011

ben62670 wrote: »

DV is just a troll trying to get a rise out of us. Another for the bozo list.

Edit: Venom is the Polkie who introduced me to better cables:eek: Is that you "J"?

Wow!

Ben, digitalvideo IS venomclan, unless he simply stole his signature back in 2009

digitalvideo · January 2011

inspiredsports wrote: »

That's great, dv!

Yep, your signature contained gear would finance a nice car or two. Even gear that is esoteric enough that it's carried by dealers that don't publish prices. But then all of the sudden you erased the Signature and went ballistic on cables that could be considered chump change.

Hmmmmmm . . .

Mains: Anthony Gallo Reference 3.1
Preamp: Modwright SWL9.0SE
Amps: Butler TBD2250, PS Audio Trio
PrePro: Cary Cinema 6, Outlaw 990
DAC: Benchmark DAC1
Universal Player: Denon 2900
Cables: StraightWire Encore II, Kimber Hero, Audioquest Type 4, CV-8, Columbia DBS
Power Conditioner: Belkin PF60

You got the wrong screename and signature dummy, that's not mine nor was it ever, I also didn't know I owned real estate in Florida either, how ever you got that I have no idea but it is funny. LOL! You might need to see what your wife is putting in your Starbucks Blend.

In fact mantis knows my HT setup as I asked him some advice on it and in the past I had my signature posted, here it is:

Pioneer Elite Kuro PRO-151FD
Pioneer Elite SC07

Previously Pioneer Elite SC05
Pioneer Elite BDP-23FD
Carver/Sunfire Cinema Grand Signature 400
Comcast HD CATV
Definitive Technology Mythos ST <<<<<<I'll put this up against much more expensive B&W's and Revell's
SVS PB12 Ultra sub
SurgeX XR315
A couple of SurgeX SX1120RT's too for each circuit.
Belden/Bluejeans wires all around, settled on these after I heard no difference with Signal Cables.
:biggrin:

I want inspired to stalk me now, it's such a turn own, flowers for me? Golly Mr. Clementine I do declare! (blushes)

inspiredsports · January 2011

oops, my bad

cstmar01 · January 2011

Wow.

Not sure how DV jumps from talking about cables to saying that all of us that spend money on cables then complain we spend too much for health insurance?

This guys logic is just unreal. I've heard similar rants but insanity comes to my mind when I think of it.

digitalvideo wrote: »

This debate is about power cords, if there are any benefits to them, which models to buy, cost/performance ratio factor and value. All those questions belong here whether the ultra sensitive cable crowd likes it or not.

If you want to spend a ridiculous amount of money on materialistic and superficial things that aren't important to one's survival then go ahead, but you have no right to then whine and complain about health insurance prices and say you can't afford health insurance or it's too expensive, you can't afford your mortgage etc, because your stupid priorities are out of touch with most common sense straight thinking people on this planet especially in a world wide recession. It's people like you as to why we had a housing crisis because people weren't living within their means, spending wrecklessly on things they didn't need then these same idiots blame the banks and insurance companies for the debt they put themselves in on their own. People like "YOU" are to blame for putting the banks and mortgage companies in this position to begin with. LOL! So stupid!

How many of you want to bet we got idiots on here who want a Public Option and "Single Payer" so tax payers will pay their health coverage while they splurge on non important stuff like those idiots in Europe who put their countries in massive debt which even rivals ours per GDP?

oh and btw, the whole factor that you have an HT system can also be seen as spending too much money on something that is materialistic, but no be my guest and tell us how we are all wrong.

BlueFox · January 2011

Deleted. Wrong area. Right subject.

DarqueKnight · January 2011

bikezappa wrote: »

Just one thing however, please show me any referance that states that AC voltage in our homes goes in one direction.

bikezappa wrote: »

You need to use imaginary numbers (i) for complex AC ciruits.

Your quote about Energy flow is not the same as reversing the AC voltage and current. Sorry. They have different units.

Sorry Peter. I thought that since you have a background in physics, you would be able to understand that the unidirectional energy flow was caused by unidirectional current and voltage.

Let's try again.

Are you familiar with the concept of phasors? Phasors (phase vectors) are vector representations of sine waves whose maximum amplitude frequency and phase are time invariant. I'm sure you recall that vectors are graphically represented by arrows pointing in only one direction. The difference between an ordinary vector and a phasor is that the phasor rotates, but it rotates in only one direction. Since vectors and phasors only have one direction and since phasors are used to represent sine waves whose maximum amplitude, frequency and phase are time invariant and since household AC voltage and current are sine waves with time invariant maximum amplitude, frequency and phase, we must conclude that AC voltage and AC current are unidirectional. Two excellent animated graphical representations of this can be found here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phasor

Figure 1. Phasor representation of a single sinusoid.

Figure 2. Phasor representation of a sum of two sinusoids.

In the animations, note that as the sine wave's amplitude oscillates between its positive and negative maximum values, the phasor representation is denoted by an arrow with one direction, out from the source, like any other vector. However, in addition to the sine wave's vector maintaining one direction, it also rotates and that rotation is also in one direction, counterclockwise.

Here is another good explanation:

"Question: In alternating current, current reverses directions rapidly between the two wires, white and black. Why is it that only the black wire is "hot"?

Answer: When you complete a circuit by plugging an appliance into an electrical outlet, current flows out one wire to the appliance and returns to the electric company through the other wire. With alternating current, the roles of the two wires reverse rapidly, so that at one moment current flows out the black wire to the appliance and moments later current flows out the white wire to the appliance. But the power company drives this current through the wires by treating the black wire speciallyit alternately raises and lowers the electrostatic potential or voltage of the black wire while leaving the voltage of the white wire unchanged with respect to ground. When the voltage of the black wire is high, current is pushed through the black wire toward the appliance and returns through the white wire. When the voltage of the black wire is low, current is pulled through the black wire from the appliance and is replaced by current flowing out through the white wire.

The white wire is rather passive in this process because its voltage is always essentially zero. It never has a net charge on it. But the black wire is alternately positively charged and then negatively charged. That's what makes its voltage rise and fall. Since the black wire is capable of pushing or pulling charge from the ground instead of from the white wire, you don't want to touch the black wire while you're grounded. You'll get a shock."

Source: http://www.howeverythingworks.org/page1.php?QNum=1345

Household AC wiring consists of a hot (black wire) neutral (white wire) and ground (green wire). The black wire acts as an oscillating "pump" which pushes and pulls current. When the black wire is "pushing", current flows from the wall circuit to the electrical appliance through the black hot wire and returns to the wall circuit through the white neutral wire. When the black wire is "pulling", current flows from the wall circuit to the electrical appliance through the white neutral wire and returns to the wall circuit through the black hot wire. Whether the black wire is pushing or pulling, the electrical appliance only receives current from the wall IN ONE DIRECTION. The difference is that the unidirectional current ALTERNATES between coming from the black hot and white neutral wires.

If you are still not clear on this, I don't know what more I can say. I have offered you mathematical and graphical proof, as well as analogies, that demonstrate that household AC flows in one direction. The "alternating" part of AC has to do with the oscillation (alternating) between the positive and negative amplitude of the sinusoidal waveforms and the alternation between supplying current from the hot and neutral wires rather than an alternation in direction of current flow. Current is not bouncing "back and forth" between the wall circuit and the appliance like a ping-pong ball.

DarqueKnight · January 2011

bikezappa wrote: »

Why are there diodes in power supplies? To rectify the alternating current.

Oh Peter,

So many days have passed since I asked you to expound on the topic of AC rectification that I had to look it up for myself. I'm so sorry that you did not want to assist me in my quest for better understanding of how rectifiers work.

I went to that favorite naysayer's research source, Wikipedia, and this is what they said:

"A rectifier is an electrical device that converts alternating current (AC), which periodically reverses direction, to direct current (DC), which is in only one direction, a process known as rectification.

When only one diode is used to rectify AC (by blocking the negative or positive portion of the waveform), the difference between the term diode and the term rectifier is merely one of usage, i.e., the term rectifier describes a diode that is being used to convert AC to DC. Almost all rectifiers comprise a number of diodes in a specific arrangement for more efficiently converting AC to DC than is possible with only one diode.

In half wave rectification, either the positive or negative half of the AC wave is passed, while the other half is blocked.

A full-wave rectifier converts the whole of the input waveform to one of constant polarity (positive or negative) at its output. Full-wave rectification converts both polarities of the input waveform to DC (direct current), and is more efficient."

Source:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rectifier

The Wikipedia article seems to have some authoritative references, therefore I have some confidence in its veracity and accuracy. What say you Peter?

OK now, as I understand it, a diode blocks the reversal of the AC sine wave from swinging from positive to negative or negative to positive. It does not block a "back or forth" movement of the AC sine wave because the AC sine wave is not moving back or forth, it is oscillating between positive and negative. Do I have this right Peter?

Before I go, I wanted to post this amusing exchange from a couple of years ago no the Yahoo Answers website:

"Question: I understand direct current quite well, but alternating current has never been explained to me. So how does it work, how can you have electricity going back and forth?

Answer: "Back and forth" is a very poor way of describing alternating electricity and I really do wish that such descriptions would cease to be used. Alternating electricity, or current, or voltage is an electrical wave, for lack of a better term that goes from a zero point in value to a peak positive, back to zero, and again to a negative peak value and then returns to zero within a specified period of time with no interruption. So long as there is something generating this phenomena, as well as something to conduct it away from it's generating source, the wave will continue to move away from the generating source until it is cut off, used up or the potential drops to zero because of resistance in the material transporting it.

Source: How Does Alternating Current Work?

bikezappa wrote: »

It's hard to discuss this stuff with you while you state that AC goes in only one direction. If you didn't state this then I'm sorry I got that wrong.

Please clarify: Is it hard to discuss this stuff with me because I am wrong or because you really, really don't understand it yourself?

Power Cable Question

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