Power Cable Question
Comments
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digitalvideo wrote: »I can see I got DarqueKnight owned on this, ultra defensive about spending thousands on a power cord to make himself feel like one of those George Lucas types when George Lucas would most likely look at you like the sucker you are.
This is probably rubbing salt into your wounds, but hey, you shot yourself.
George Lucas' state of the art sound production studio, Skywalker Sound is completely wired with MIT cables.....completely.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
DarqueKnight wrote: »Well, he may not know anything about power cords, but he knows we are not able to afford them and that we will soon be homeless and going to the emergency room for our medical care.
Yes, truly amazing. Maybe he'll get his own TV show.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
Yes, truly amazing. Maybe he'll get his own TV show.
If he really does have that kind of predictive ability, he should be using it to foretell winning Powerball Lottery numbers rather than predicting the economic demise of our poor, misguided forum members.George Lucas' state of the art sound production studio, Skywalker Sound is completely wired with MIT cables.....completely.
As Darth Vader once screamed (when he was told he had accidentally killed his beloved Padme):
Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
I didn't want to believe it...no...I really di-int, but right there on the MIT testimonials page are two of George Lucas' Skywalker Sound Employees extolling the virtues of MIT cables. As our mentor, Ka7niq was fond of saying, read and weep.:biggrin:
" ...Bruce Brisson and MIT cable technology. Bruce worked with our engineers to arrive at a line and speaker level wire system that allowed us to minimize phase errors through the system. The resulting clarity has been a pleasure to all that use that room."
Tim McGovern
Director of Engineering , Skywalker Sound
"...the techniques and test and measurement equipment Bruce (Brisson) & MIT utilize have been the only way I have found to accurately predict how the system will sound...
...The relationship works because Bruce and all of us in the Skywalker engineering department have a desire to take audio systems to levels previously not attainable."
Aaron Reiff
Chief Scoring Engineer, Skywalker Sound
Source: http://www.mitcables.com/reference-library/articles/testimonials.html
About Skywalker Sound
Skywalker Sound is located in the serene rolling hills of Marin County, California, forty minutes north of San Francisco. Occupying the 155,000 square foot Technical Building, Skywalker Sound was built by a filmmaker for filmmakers, and is one of the largest, most versatile full-service post-production facilities in the world.
Here are some testimonials for Shunyata power cables
"As studio owners, we are regularly exposed to numerous ‘quality enhancement products’ and have naturally become cautious and very selective; you rarely achieve an audible improvement without somehow adversely affecting another element in the audio chain. We have been using Shunyata power cables at my studio for some time now. Careful placement of the cables has resulted in reduced distortion, improved clarity, better low level detail and richer 3-dimensional depth in the sound stage. The Anaconda PowerSnakes, for example, have transformed our Sonoma system, used during the mastering process for the new 5.1 mix of ‘The Dark Side of The Moon’. I look forward to trying the Hydra AC distribution next. Highly recommended."
James Guthrie,
Grammy award winning Producer/Engineer (Pink Floyd)
"Shunyata Research power cables and interconnects made a remarkable difference in my reference system. The PowerSnakes power cables added effortless muscularity, control and wide-open clarity to the amps driving my speakers. These are not subtle tweaks. I would guess the amps sound 15 percent better -- a far bigger difference than any speaker cables have made and in many cases, as unbelievable as it may seem, a greater improvement than changing the whole front end. I could not recommend them highly enough."
Rick Rubin,
Five-time Grammy nominated Record Producer
"As you know, I have personally evaluated the Hydra power conditioning system along with your PowerSnakes power cables. I was very impressed with the results. Shunyata Research products are now part of my equipment set up. Especially, with my 2 track tape machines, the sound with your system was definitely more transparent and clear. I would highly recommend Shunyata Research products to any professional audio/video facility."
Vlado Meller,
Senior Mastering Engineer
Sony Music Studios New York"
Source: http://www.shunyata.com/Content/endorsements-Professional.htmldigitalvideo wrote: »I can see I got DarqueKnight owned on this, ultra defensive about spending thousands on a power cord to make himself feel like one of those George Lucas types when George Lucas would most likely look at you like the sucker you are. By the way, I only read about half of your post, I just couldn't read anymore nonsense so you wasted your time typing all that for nothing.
Hmmmmmmmmmmm...Well cupcake, I really don't see where I got "owned" on this. I would bet every cent I have stashed away for my next power amp upgrade that George Lucas and the fine people at Sony Music Studios would be very complimentary of my gear and cables, seeing as how Lucas has invested a fortune in MIT cables and Sony has invested a fortune in those big, fat expensive Shunyata cables.
The fact is, pumpkin, that many professional recording studios and professional acoustic and electronic research laboratories DO use premium quality power, interconnect, and speaker cables. There are also many that don't, for various technical reasons (not needed for a particular application).
Perhaps the studio people you are talking to can't afford premium high performance cables now, or in the foreseeable future. I hope they aren't as angry and bitter about it as you are.
Proud and loyal citizen of the Digital Domain and Solid State Country! -
Something I posted in another thread, at another place aboout a month ago...
As a new person to the realm of "higher" end sound, (above what the avg consumer would buy if they wanted to get "The Best" they could find at BB, CC, or Sears) I think a lot of these discussions are quite interesting....
While sound and the various frequencies above or below what we can hear are is identifiable, measurable, quantifiable, etc., how each of us hears them is not. At least at this point. The actual listening part of music is 100% subjective. Now, most people agree that a good steak is better than a piece of chuck (atleast when prepared the same), how the steak is prepared matters to each individual, and is not necessarily quantifiable with simple measurements. The measurement says the steak is "Medium Well" and a "Choice" sirloin. But what if I like a little more fat and I like my steak rare. Someone else could like it well and VERY lean and dry. Neither of us is wrong, it is simply a subjective measurement....
Audio is that. While we can agree on many things, subtle things could be audible or inaudible to some folks period, not even factoring in the differences in these folks systems. And if the person who believes X does not effect sound enjoys their music, as well as the person who believes it does matter, why should either be offended? It is an OPINION about a SUBJECTIVE piece of data.
I do think that those that have not tried something yet should have an open mind and try it unless there are bad consequences to trying (ie trying out jumping off a bridge or trying out drunk driving) or religious problems.
Luckily changing caps, resistors and cables doesnt have the bad consequences. So EVERYONE can try it, and decide for themselves.
As an Engineer who is back in school for the 3rd time, I liked, and noticed, the changes I have experienced as I changed cables. Even though I cant throw them in the hypersonic wind tunnel I am working in and measure what they change :cool:HT: Ninja Master LSi9s, Ninja Master LSiC, Slightly Modded LSiFXs, Modded LSi7s, Outlaw LFM-1 EX and Polk PSW125
Outlaw 970 Preamp, Outlaw 7700 Amp, Velodyne SMS-1, Oppo BDP-83,
2 APC H-15s and a Panamax 5400 for good measure
Stereo: DIY Alix Music Server, DODD Audio Battery Tube Buffer, Modded DAC-60 and MF V-Link (for now), DIY Silver ICs, Battery Powered Class D SDS-254 Amp, and GR-Research N2X Speakers -
Well put praedet.
Hey you're in Blacksburg! Go Hokies!Dali Optikon 1Mk2
NAD D3020 V2
Schiit Bifrost 2/64
..the rest are headphone setups. -
^^^Yep HT: Ninja Master LSi9s, Ninja Master LSiC, Slightly Modded LSiFXs, Modded LSi7s, Outlaw LFM-1 EX and Polk PSW125
Outlaw 970 Preamp, Outlaw 7700 Amp, Velodyne SMS-1, Oppo BDP-83,
2 APC H-15s and a Panamax 5400 for good measure
Stereo: DIY Alix Music Server, DODD Audio Battery Tube Buffer, Modded DAC-60 and MF V-Link (for now), DIY Silver ICs, Battery Powered Class D SDS-254 Amp, and GR-Research N2X Speakers -
Class of 2007 here
Though I did pull a Van Wilder (3 yrs of CPE, 3 years of EE, before switching to MIS/BIT). Dali Optikon 1Mk2
NAD D3020 V2
Schiit Bifrost 2/64
..the rest are headphone setups. -
With regard to power cables...
I have a Transparent on my VT100mkII and a home made cable on my VTL2.5
Cables matter.-Kevin
HT: Philips 52PFL7432D 52" LCD 1080p / Onkyo TX-SR 606 / Oppo BDP-83 SE / Comcast cable. (all HDMI)B&W 801 - Front, Polk CS350 LS - Center, Polk LS90 - Rear
2 Channel:
Oppo BDP-83 SE
Squeezebox Touch
Muscial Fidelity M1 DAC
VTL 2.5
McIntosh 2205 (refurbed)
B&W 801's
Transparent IC's -
Well back from my trip, I skipped over all of Dark Knight's posts and didn't even read one word, I would assume he wasted a lot of time for nothing.
But at the end of the day, power cords don't matter, it's a marketing scam.
I will quote Bill Whitlock on this and Michael McCook of SurgeX.There is debate among audiophiles surrounding the impact that high-end cables have on audio systems with audibility of the changes central to the discussion. Bill Whitlock, president of Jensen Transformers, has written that "no other product is as shrouded in hype and mystery as the audio cable!"[1] Whitlock continues by saying that the high-end segment of the audio industry "abounds with misinformation, myth, and mysticism."[1] There are claims that, even among audiophiles, in a double-blind test it is impossible to distinguish extremely expensive, exotic speaker cables from ordinary lamp cords or budget 12AWG copper speaker wire.[2][3]
James Randi, a stage magician and scientific skeptic best known as a challenger of paranormal claims and pseudoscience, offered a prize of one million dollars to anyone who could prove his or her ability to distinguish an expensive high-end audio cable from an ordinary audio cable by means of a controlled listening test.[4][5] Michael Fremer of Stereophile magazine took the challenge, but satisfactory testing conditions could not be agreed upon, and the test did not take place.[6] In rigorous tests performed under controlled circumstances, listeners have not been able to prove there is any audible difference between high end and cheap cables.[7]Mains power cablesAnother controversial area of audio cabling is that of mains power cables. Products exist that claim to improve the sound or picture with a short length of expensive oxygen-free copper or silver cable connected from the wall socket to the equipment.[10] More scientific arguments have been presented, such as building RFI (Radio Frequency Interference) filters into the cables as well as shielding against EMI (Electro-Magnetic Interference) can produce a cleaner noise free supply and hence a better sound or picture quality.[11] Although subjective tests have occasionally confirmed this, little objective proof has been given.[12] One critique of high end power cable questions how a short strand of expensive cable can improve upon electricity delivered by miles of standard electricity transmission equipment outside and inside a home. Given this paradox, he then asks, "how short does the [specialized] wire have to be made before differences can no longer be heard?"[2]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interconnects
Audio Review Archive:If there are orders of magnitude of idiocy in the cable debate, the one about power cords is in a class by itself. The power distribution network consists of thousands of miles of high voltage feeder cable, countless transformers, switchgear, millions of connected loads simultaneously, and always changing. Your little corner of the world consists of a transformer somewhere in your neighborhood hundreds of feet from your home, feeders coming into your house, your circuit breaker panel, wiring throughout your house, and dozens of feet of thin gauge wire in the primary of every transformer in your sound system. The arguement that a few feet of power cord carring anywhere from a few milliamps to a couple of amps delivered into a filtered power supply which is hopefully regulated and having an adequately sized transformer and filter capacitor could possibly matter is more than absurd, it's downright stupid. -
digitalvideo wrote: »Well back from my trip, I skipped over all of Dark Knight's posts and didn't even read one word, I would assume he wasted a lot of time for nothing.
But at the end of the day, power cords don't matter, it's a marketing scam.
I will quote Bill Whitlock on this and Michael McCook of SurgeX.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interconnects
Audio Review Archive:
Sorry, but links mean nothing - ears on do.
I'm sure you'll have a fan following over at AVS though.
H9: If you don't trust what you are hearing, then maybe you need to be less invested in a hobby which all the pleasure comes from listening to music. -
I will say that what does effect the PQ is a surge eliminator/power conditioner depending on the model and company.
I have my Pioneer Elite Kuro plasma and Comcast HD CATV plugged into SurgeX XF2 FlatPak and it has altered the PQ. I notice now the image is more digitized, overly processed, less natural, black levels have risen, for example during live sporting events at night when there is a camera shot of outside the stadium like from the Goodyear blimp the image lost it's deep black levels, the sky is more gray with a faint digitized look. Talking to people over at avsforum.com and audioaficionado.org they have said that switching out power cords will not make any difference to fix that problem. -
Erik Tracy wrote: »Sorry, but links mean nothing - ears on do.
I'm sure you'll have a fan following over at AVS though.
No, experts in the field mean more than your opinions do, I'll trust Bill Whitlock and others who are world renowned engineers over you and other random bloggers who fell for some marketing scams. It's slowly catching on about the HDMI scams from Monster and their contracts with Best Buy, slowly the other cables are being exposed too. Want to come over and test your wires in my HT? -
digitalvideo wrote: »No, experts in the field mean more than your opinions do, I'll trust Bill Whitlock and others who are world renowned engineers over you and other random bloggers who fell for some marketing scams. It's slowly catching on about the HDMI scams from Monster and their contracts with Best Buy, slowly the other cables will be exposed too. Want to come over and test your wires in my HT?
I give no credence to link lemmings and post parrots - you even admitted to not even reading any words in DK's posts - so much for an open mind.
Ears on...that's all that counts...not links
H9: If you don't trust what you are hearing, then maybe you need to be less invested in a hobby which all the pleasure comes from listening to music. -
Erik Tracy wrote: »I give no credence to link lemming and post parrots - you even admitted to not even reading any words in DK's posts - so much for an open mind.
Ears on...that's all that counts...not links
Actually your quick little posts show a true sign of desperation and insecurity on your part, you can't even back up anything you say, you respond back like some teenage girl: "well ears matter links don't boohoo." lol I would say back up your claims, man up and stop trying to discredit Bill Whitlock and others who know what they're talking about as you for some reason want to defend companies that just want your money, the joke is on you. By the way, when you say: "Ears matter links don't" that is clearly a mental opinion by someone who is mental, it's a psychological defect and paranoia and needs to be treated by a pychologist and psychiatrist who treats obsessive compulsive disorder and delusions.
I really have to question if any of you work for any of these companies and if you're profiting from this. But seek help please. -
digitalvideo wrote: »Actually your quick little posts show a true sign of desperation and insecurity on your part, you can't even back up anything you say, you respond back like some teenage girl: "well ears matter links don't boohoo." lol I would say back up your claims, man up and stop trying to discredit Bill Whitlock and others who know what they're talking about as you for some reason want to defend companies that just want your money, the joke is on you. By the way, when you say: "Ears matter links don't" that is clearly a mental opinion by someone who is mental, it's a psychological defect and paranoia and needs to be treated by a pychologist and psychiatrist who treats obsessive compulsive disorder and delusions.
I really have to question if any of you work for any of these companies and if you're profiting from this. But seek help please.
Please go post your dribble over at AVS - and have a fun time in the circle jerk.
Your obsession on this seems to indicate mental instability...
H9: If you don't trust what you are hearing, then maybe you need to be less invested in a hobby which all the pleasure comes from listening to music. -
digitalvideo wrote: »No, experts in the field mean more than your opinions do, I'll trust Bill Whitlock and others who are world renowned engineers over you and other random bloggers who fell for some marketing scams. It's slowly catching on about the HDMI scams from Monster and their contracts with Best Buy, slowly the other cables are being exposed too. Want to come over and test your wires in my HT?digitalvideo wrote: »Actually your quick little posts show a true sign of desperation and insecurity on your part, you can't even back up anything you say, you respond back like some teenage girl: "well ears matter links don't boohoo." lol I would say back up your claims, man up and stop trying to discredit Bill Whitlock and others who know what they're talking about as you for some reason want to defend companies that just want your money, the joke is on you. By the way, when you say: "Ears matter links don't" that is clearly a mental opinion by someone who is mental, it's a psychological defect and paranoia and needs to be treated by a pychologist and psychiatrist who treats obsessive compulsive disorder and delusions.
I really have to question if any of you work for any of these companies and if you're profiting from this. But seek help please.
I typically enjoy getting the differing views and opinions related to audio, or for that matter most topics, that forums tend to offer. However, it baffles me that you are so quick to dismiss DK's posts and information and those of other members, even by your own admission, without even reading or considering them. At least DK responded to your points, even agreeing to some extent on where benefits would be negligible.
Why I do admit it seems that most people were initially against your viewpoint, it was you and not they who personalized the situations and made generic accusations and statements. Maybe if you reviewed your posts you might see it more clearly, but judging by your behavior thus far, I doubt it.
Both you and DK were able to post reviews and opinions of professionals that supported both cases, which is always the case. And yes, it is possible that companies are benefiting from their views/observations just as SurgeX has apparently benefited form convincing you of theirs considering you have purchased their products in lieu of others.
Using experts always convinces people that their view is right, yet in every circumstance there will be an expert on the other side of the field stating the exact opposite with equal qualifications and accolades to support his claims. Anyone been to court recently, read about global warming, feasibility of various energy alternatives etc...
Once a forum sacrifices the benefits of discussion for the self-serving soapbox opinions there is little point to it. In this case, in my opinion, you have been the source of that lost. Focusing on mutual discussion and review of both sides information is the point of this, perhaps everyone can get back on target? -
Why don't the manufacturers of sound equipment spend or add expensive power cords to their models now? Why is an upgrade needed? What is the difference in the up grade?? Materials? Insulation?
Has the TV, movie and audio recording industry bought into purchasing expensive power cords? Are concerts set up with expensive power cords? Who buys these expensive power cords?
If people think they can hear the added aspects of buying expensive cables that's, ok it's their money, but I think the differences are subjective. I think they are telling you what they believe, but that doesn't make it true. I see no objective evidence that changing a power cord that is in good weorking order and is designed for the power used will make any audio difference. However, we all can spend our money on what ever makes us smile. -
This "civilized" debate kept repeating again and again and again :biggrin:Gears shared to both living room & bedroom:
Integra DHC-80.3 / Oppo BDP-105 / DirecTV HR24 DVR /APC S15blk PC-UPS
Living room:
LSiM707's / LSiM706c / LSiM702 F/X's / dual JL Audio Fathom F113's / Parasound Halo A51 / Panasonic 65" TC-P65VT50
Bedroom:
Usher Dancer Mini 2 Diamond DMD's / Logitech SB Touch / W4S STP-SE / W4S DAC-2 / W4S ST-1000 / Samsung 52" LN52B750
Other rooms:
Audioengine AP4's / GLOW Audio Sub One / audio-gd NFB-3 DAC / Audioengine N22
audio-gd NFB-10.2 / Denon AH-D7000 -
This "civilized" debate kept repeating again and again and again :biggrin:
I think it's pretty simple. Some people believe in subjective observation data and some people believe in empirical data. They both have a place in audio. We all like to look at nice looking speakers and glowing tube equipment.
We also like to have an amplifier with low distortion at a defined frequency response and power level for a resonable amount of money based on the cost of materials and construction.
You pay the money for what you believe in and enjoy. -
I see no objective evidence that changing a power cord that is in good weorking order and is designed for the power used will make any audio difference.
There is data, but you need to actually look for it. DarqueKnight has also posted his own research, which is both interesting, and a lot more than what the naysayers have posted.
DTCD (Dynamic Transient Current Delivery) Analyzer
DTCD is a method of current analysis that measures instantaneous current delivery in the context of a pulsed current draw. In layman's terms, it is a way of measuring current performance into typical electronic component power supplies.
The DTCD Analyzer allows the measurement of pulsed transient current through a variety of AC power products, including power cords.
The measurements represent three critical performance criteria:
The quantity of instantaneous current available through a specified power device or circuit. Measured in amperes.
The amount of voltage drop across the device during the conduction period.
The stored residual noise component rate of dissipation after the current conduction period.
http://www.shunyata.com/Content/DTCD.html
Does DTCD affect audio or video performance?
There are significant measurable DTCD differences between various power cords and power distribution devices. In many cases, the differences can measure as high as 50%-100% between similar products -- which by any standard is a profound measured difference.
Comparative subjective listening tests have been conducted spanning several years, under controlled conditions using blind and double blind tests that repeatedly confirm the connection between system performance and measurable DTCD. These results will be published along with more detailed information in a series of supporting FAQ documents.
For years, thousands of recording professionals and A/V enthusiasts have reported unmistakable auditory, or in the case of film, visible differences when evaluating after-market power-cords, outlets and power distributors. The DTCD results affirm that many of these reports could be easily validated through simple DTCD measurement. Some listening results could be predicted given a dramatic difference in the DTCD measurement of AC components such as outlets or power cords.
Important Note: DTCD is NOT the only design parameter that separates the performance of power products. However, due to the foundational nature of current and voltage integrity it is clear that a product will have severely impaired performance if it has significantly low or diminished DTCD.
http://www.shunyata.com/Content/DTCD-indepth.html
As audio engineers gain even more knowledge, I fully expect other measurement areas will be discovered which will show there are objective, audible differences between "identical" components. Just as some people have been saying for years.
However, I suspect no matter how much data is provided, some people will continue to make fools of themselves by trying to rationalize their closed minds. :rolleyes:Lumin X1 file player, Westminster Labs interconnect cable
Sony XA-5400ES SACD; Pass XP-22 pre; X600.5 amps
Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers; SPOD spikes
Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR on source, Denali 2000 (2) on amps
Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables
Mapleshade Samson V.3 four shelf solid maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
Three 20 amp circuits. -
digitalvideo wrote: »I skipped over all of Dark Knight's posts and didn't even read one word, I would assume he wasted a lot of time for nothing.
But at the end of the day, power cords don't matter, it's a marketing scam.
And the truth comes out, you're nothing more than a troll.wikipedia
LOL......you just lost any shred of credibility you may have had left.
Off to the BOZO list with you.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
eh,, I just trust my ears,,,but,for the record,,all of my pc's are aftermarket,, just building up my post count. JC approves....he told me so. (F-1 nut)
-
There's nothing more ridiculous than someone with closed mind (and ears) claiming to be enlightened.SystemLuxman L-590AXII Integrated Amplifier|KEF Reference 1 Loudspeakers|PS Audio Directream Jr|Sansui TU-9900 Tuner|TEAC A-6100 RtR|REL T/9X SE Sub
-
DV, respond to my post...HT: Ninja Master LSi9s, Ninja Master LSiC, Slightly Modded LSiFXs, Modded LSi7s, Outlaw LFM-1 EX and Polk PSW125
Outlaw 970 Preamp, Outlaw 7700 Amp, Velodyne SMS-1, Oppo BDP-83,
2 APC H-15s and a Panamax 5400 for good measure
Stereo: DIY Alix Music Server, DODD Audio Battery Tube Buffer, Modded DAC-60 and MF V-Link (for now), DIY Silver ICs, Battery Powered Class D SDS-254 Amp, and GR-Research N2X Speakers -
I'm still waiting for Dark Knight to post a video of any of his experiments to prove a much more expensive speaker cable or HDMI or power cable will make any improvement. In fact, I contacted Michael McCook, ceo of SurgeX about this, he laughed. "Dark Knight" what is your education, college degree in? I'm NOT a expert, I am NOT affiliated with any company in this field, I never claimed to be, I post claims and literature from actual engineers and you can also contact and talk to who can school you.
For those wanting to know the truth and the proper electrical wiring practice for AV systems read this white paper by Jim Brown with Audio Systems Group: http://www.audiosystemsgroup.com/SurgeXPowerGround.pdf
Regarding AV system interfaces, read the white papers of Bill Whitlock with Jensen Transformers: http://www.jensen-transformers.com/apps_wp.html
Both of these gentlemen are experts in the industry, are active members of the AES and are driving forces on global standards committees. Both are available for direct communication.
For those further inclined to learn more about everything audio, take a SynAudCon course www.synaudcon.com
Michael McCook
SurgeX International
Office: (+1)610-847-4956
Direct: (+1)267-251-6119
Fax: (+1)610-847-4955
Michael@SurgeXInternational.com
Skype: michael.mccook
www.SurgeXInternational.com -
I'll make it clear again, I am NOT a engineer, I am NOT a expert, I am NOT affiliated with any company in this field, I have no education in this field, I'm just a regular average random guy on here like pretty much all of you, but the difference is I post links and sources from actual engineers who are leaders in the field as posted above, these are not my opinions, but the documented evidence of experts who you can contact as I have.
"Dark Knight" what is your background in this field and your education and degree in? Before I take seriously a screename behind a computer I'd like to know who I am talking to so I can take your claims seriously. The whole point is that anyone behind a computer can claim to be a expert with no proof to show for it, look at YouTube, under every video there is a comments section where everyone thinks they're a expert and genius on the video that is being played, it can be a video of a $1 million dollar Ferrari that only 50 were made world wide and everyone is typing in comments that they're the experts and know everything about the car, how it handles, the suspension and all that, and we all know these are a bunch of nobodies who's closest they got to that car was playing it on their Playstation. -
digitalvideo wrote: »I'll make it clear again, I am NOT a engineer, I am NOT a expert, I am NOT affiliated with any company in this field, I have no education in this field, ....
Yes, it is apparent from your posts that you have no clue what you are talking about. :rolleyes:
I read your links. Did you? Because, if you did you would realize they are completely unrelated to the subject matter. Simply because a paper has a schematic, and uses big electrical engineering words does not mean it has anything to do with power cords.
However, if you did read the papers you would have understood they are describing methods for improving power and audio components. Obviously, if something can be made better then that implies it can be improved even more. Other than you, nothing is at the peak of perfection, and that includes power cords. So it makes sense there are better power cords for purchase.
I also notice that when I provided actual on-subject data regarding a methodology to measure power cord performance you ignored it. Of course, I suspect that was due to its use of big words, and your not having any idea what the papers are saying.
For what its worth, I am an engineer, but in Computer Science. However, before that I was an electronics technician working on aviation electronics (radar, radio, etc.), and later, computer networking gear. While not quite college level courses, I went to various Navy electronic schools, and did get a good foundation in electronics. However, one does not need a PHD in electronics to hear the difference between a stock cable, and an improved cable.Lumin X1 file player, Westminster Labs interconnect cable
Sony XA-5400ES SACD; Pass XP-22 pre; X600.5 amps
Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers; SPOD spikes
Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR on source, Denali 2000 (2) on amps
Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables
Mapleshade Samson V.3 four shelf solid maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
Three 20 amp circuits. -
Yes, it is apparent from your posts that you have no clue what you are talking about. :rolleyes:
No more than you.BlueFox wrote:I read your links. Did you? Because, if you did you would realize they are completely unrelated to the subject matter. Simply because a paper has a schematic, and uses big electrical engineering words does not mean it has anything to do with power cords.
However, if you did read the papers you would have understood they are describing methods for improving power and audio components. Obviously, if something can be made better then that implies it can be improved even more. Other than you, nothing is at the peak of perfection, and that includes power cords. So it makes sense there are better power cords for purchase.
If you were knowledgable on the actual engineers who contributed to the research and studies that concluded with those results in my links you would know they (Bill Whitlock, Michael McCook, Jim Brown) laugh at your kind who think a $2000 dollar speaker cable or HDMI cable or power cable makes a difference in SQ and PQ. They're still waiting for anyone to come along and supply them with some power cords to test them out.
In fact contact Frank Frombach at SurgeX and he's another one who'd like for any of you to show him these results from these power cords and actual numbers.
Frank Frombach
SurgeX ProAV
Direct: 501-204-9527
Email: Frank Frombach
And "improving" power and audio components doesn't mean spending more on a wire or selling a wire more so a company can make a bigger profit off ignorant customers like yourself who fall for marketing hype as Best Buy employees were by selling $500 Monster HDMI cables that offer no improvement over a $5 dollar Monoprice cable according to my eyes and the thousands of eyes at www.blu-ray.com and www.avsforum.com and www.cnet.com and most on this website. Same goes with power cords and these companies making frivolous bogus claims of making the image "pop" more off their flatscreen tv which is laughagle lol @ charging $2000 for a power chord based on a a marketing line of "pop" and "come to life!" lol hahahaBlueFox wrote:I also notice that when I provided actual on-subject data regarding a methodology to measure power cord performance you ignored it. Of course, I suspect that was due to its use of big words, and your not having any idea what the papers are saying.
I looked at your pathetic links and almost fell over laughing, it was quite entertaining to say the least and I'd like to know the names of the engineers and who they work for who put forth this "methodology to measure cord performance" but judging by your posts on here and who you are and the absolute utter nonsense and fairy tale magic mars dust you believe in these power cords I won't take the source too seriously and it will be questioned.BlueFox wrote:For what it’s worth, I am an engineer, but in Computer Science. However, before that I was an electronics technician working on aviation electronics (radar, radio, etc.), and later, computer networking gear. While not quite college level courses, I went to various Navy electronic schools, and did get a good foundation in electronics. However, one does not need a PHD in electronics to hear the difference between a stock cable, and an improved cable.
Until you prove this I'll take you as a liar.
Like I said above, the whole point is that anyone behind a computer can claim to be a expert with no proof to show for it, look at YouTube, under every video there is a comments section where everyone thinks they're a expert and genius on the video that is being played, it can be a video of a $1 million dollar Ferrari that only 50 were made world wide and everyone is typing in comments that they're the experts and know everything about the car, how it handles, the suspension and all that, and we all know these are a bunch of nobodies who's closest they got to that car was playing it on their Playstation.
Now we have Bluefox who made the claim of being a engineer in computer science, electronics technician working on aviation electronics (radar, radio, etc.), and later, computer networking gear, various Navy electronic schools. But he then says: "While not quite college level courses." lol Hey Foxy, you couldn't hold a candle to any of the engineers in the links I posted above who would school you who you are too scared to contact and debate them and put forth your case.
But this one right here I agree with:BlueFox wrote:However, one does not need a PHD in electronics to hear the difference between a stock cable, and an improved cable.
Now way to go Foxy, we agree on something, but you left out one important thing, one also doesn't need to spend thousands of dollars on a cable to hear or see any difference. Price doesn't equal value, worth or performance in the cable world as I posted plenty of world class musicians who use more affordable Mogami cables and studios who use them too. -
I'm always amazed in these cable debates how we go from cheap cables to cables costing "Thousands of dollars", with nothing inbetween.
Nobody is saying you have to spend thousands to hear an audible difference in cables. The key here is experience in trying different cables,at different price points. If your happy with Mogami cables, rock out till the cows come home, but since you are using Mogami,and not lamp cord, then obviously you believe cables make a difference. If Mogami is your end in your search, cool, doesn't make it the end for everyone else. Some have deeper pockets than others that affords them the opportunity to try higher levels of gear in their own search for the ultimate sound. So what are we argueing here ?
Mogami is top shelf ? Nothing better exists ? What exactly ? Because as I see it DV, somebody told you the world was flat, so no need to go sailing too far.HT SYSTEM-
Sony 850c 4k
Pioneer elite vhx 21
Sony 4k BRP
SVS SB-2000
Polk Sig. 20's
Polk FX500 surrounds
Cables-
Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable
Kitchen
Sonos zp90
Grant Fidelity tube dac
B&k 1420
lsi 9's -
If Mogami is your end in your search, cool, doesn't make it the end for everyone else. Some have deeper pockets than others that affords them the opportunity to try higher levels of gear in their own search for the ultimate sound. So what are we argueing here ?
Mogami is top shelf ? Nothing better exists ? What exactly ? Because as I see it DV, somebody told you the world was flat, so no need to go sailing too far.
That's a good point. Mogami makes affordable cables for studios and musicians that anyone can buy, they've created a long lasting relationship with musicians and studios who like the "cost/performance" ratio factor, they're not the only cable company that does, Belden is another one that makes cables for the broadcast industry and are also very affordable. Their cable stock is pretty cheap. The fact that these musicians and mixers aren't spending $5000 on 5 to 10 foot long cables speaks volumes and I think if they could hear any difference in sound with more expensive cables then they would spend more because I don't think they would want to disappoint the 80,000 audiophiles in the crowd who know every tune of every note of these songs that demand perfection because of spending so much for a concert ticket. I doubt Dave Mustaine of MegaDeth wants to piss off his "roadies". lol
