tame the krell
bopicasso
Posts: 878
I just bought a krell kav 300i integrated amp and a musical fidelity v-dac.
I have it hooked up to a ps3. Im using audioquest type 4 toslink from ps3-vdac then bens silver ICs from vdac-krell.
The clarity and dynamics is off the charts. Everything is great except my system sounds slightly fatiguing. Not emotiva fatiguing. I was comfortable with the super laid back b&k.
After the v-dac is broken in and I switch ben's ICs with the Ultimate silver/copper ICs, do you think it will be less fatiguing?
I love the sound, just wish it was less fatiguing.
Thanks
Ryan
I have it hooked up to a ps3. Im using audioquest type 4 toslink from ps3-vdac then bens silver ICs from vdac-krell.
The clarity and dynamics is off the charts. Everything is great except my system sounds slightly fatiguing. Not emotiva fatiguing. I was comfortable with the super laid back b&k.
After the v-dac is broken in and I switch ben's ICs with the Ultimate silver/copper ICs, do you think it will be less fatiguing?
I love the sound, just wish it was less fatiguing.
Thanks
Ryan
Living Room setup: Pioneer Elite VSX-21TXH, Krell KAV 300i, PS Audio DL III DAC, Tyler Acoustics Taylo 7u, Dynaudio Audience 120C+, SVS 25/31PCI, B-P-T Clean Power Center, Ps3, Panny 50" S1 Plasma, Tekline speaker cables, Audio Art interconnects, and Pangea power cables.
Post edited by bopicasso on
Comments
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I'd check out some all copper I/C's such as Signal with Eichmann bullets."He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche
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Krell+silver=blech. Try copper, Kimber Heros or some Audioquest ICs would be my suggestion. Signal Cable if you're on a budget.
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I just bought a krell kav 300i integrated amp and a musical fidelity v-dac.
I have it hooked up to a ps3. Im using audioquest type 4 toslink from ps3-vdac then bens silver ICs from vdac-krell.
The clarity and dynamics is off the charts. Everything is great except my system sounds slightly fatiguing. Not emotiva fatiguing. I was comfortable with the super laid back b&k.
After the v-dac is broken in and I switch ben's ICs with the Ultimate silver/copper ICs, do you think it will be less fatiguing?
I love the sound, just wish it was less fatiguing.
Thanks
Ryan
Synergy can be frustrating to find, eh?
Maybe you should keep the b&k and shuffle the krell off to someone who would appreciate it more? I'm sure you could sell it back on audiogon.
And your b&k will serve you as you look for a new Int Amp w/ HT bypass (there's a bunch of 'em out there).
Live and learn.
I ponied up some coin for a highly regarded external DAC - tried it - and decided to pass it on. I made my money back and learned something from first hand experience.
If it doesn't feel right - don't *make* it feel right - don't rationalize a purchase if it doesn't work for you.
H9: If you don't trust what you are hearing, then maybe you need to be less invested in a hobby which all the pleasure comes from listening to music. -
It definately is better quality sound to my ears than the b&k so it definately is staying.
I have been listening to it for about 6 hours non stop. I guess Im just use to the b&k's laid back sound. The krell is a step ahead in every category except being easy on the ears. Im going to try the new ICs that are coming soon, hopefully that will make the slight difference I am looking for.Living Room setup: Pioneer Elite VSX-21TXH, Krell KAV 300i, PS Audio DL III DAC, Tyler Acoustics Taylo 7u, Dynaudio Audience 120C+, SVS 25/31PCI, B-P-T Clean Power Center, Ps3, Panny 50" S1 Plasma, Tekline speaker cables, Audio Art interconnects, and Pangea power cables. -
It definately is better quality sound to my ears than the b&k so it definately is staying.
I have been listening to it for about 6 hours non stop. I guess Im just use to the b&k's laid back sound. The krell is a step ahead in every category except being easy on the ears. Im going to try the new ICs that are coming soon, hopefully that will make the slight difference I am looking for.
The krell can be a step ahead over what you had, but that doesn't mean there isn't a comparably priced Int Amp that is also a better fit for the sound you are looking for.
"except being easy on the ears" sure doesn't sound like this is the sound you are going to be happy with in the long run - not unless you are just going to settle and get used to it.
The advice over changing the ICs could be just the trick - some sound advice to try for sure - but if it doesn't 'tame the krell' - maybe you need to move on to something else?
H9: If you don't trust what you are hearing, then maybe you need to be less invested in a hobby which all the pleasure comes from listening to music. -
Try a different transport. An old CD player with digital output if you have one lying around. Many will tell you that it won't or shouldn't matter...just try it, it might surprise you or make no difference at all. In my experience even with "Jitter prove" dac's like a Benchmark its made a big impact. Just one mans opinion, and if you already have the player its free...
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MIT Shotgun and AVt MA series would also be a step in the right direction for you."He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche
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The PS3 is a joke for music
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+1 to Face' advice.
I don't run your level of gear, however I did have a chance to demo a pair of Ben's IC's. With most music, I found them to come off a bit harsh until I swapped them out with a pair of MIT Shotgun S3's and the harshness went away completely (not to mention it sounded alot better overall).
Don't get me wrong Ben's silver IC's are great cables, I loved them when listening to older/dark recordings with my Magnepan speakers but that's about it.Truck setup
Alpine 9856
Phoenix Gold RSD65CS
For Sale
Polk SR6500
Polk SR5250
Polk SR104Any clue how to use the internet? Found it in about 10 sec. -
Try a better Cd player/Transport. For a Warm laid back sound try a
Marantz player.Linn AV5140 fronts
Linn AV5120 Center
Linn AV5140 Rears
M&K MX-70 Sub for Music
Odyssey Mono-Blocs
SVS Ultra-13 Gloss Black:D -
Tube buffer?
But wouldn't that be like giving qualudes to a guy hyped on speed to calm him down?
H9: If you don't trust what you are hearing, then maybe you need to be less invested in a hobby which all the pleasure comes from listening to music. -
Since you mention it, I'm about to sell my Marantz SA-15S2, it also have an optical input so it can be used as a DAC.Try a better Cd player/Transport. For a Warm laid back sound try a
Marantz player."He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche -
Have you tried the Krell as a pre, with the B&K and the DAC?Setup:
2 Channel: Vienna Acoustics Mozart Grand, T+A P 1230R, Primare SPA21, Oppo BDP-105
PC: Vienna Acoustics Haydn Grand, Cambridge Azure 650A v2 , Peachtree iDAC, Denon DVD-3800BDCI -
Good advice Guys!
Ryan, in my two channels I use Krell 400xi, MIT S3 throughout (IC and Speaks), LSi15, and a tube output stage modded Philips SACD1000. It is not fatigueing, it's actually pretty laid back and warmer, without losing the clarity and tightness. On Madeleine Peyroux's album, it sounded like she is singing right on my ear. seksay..
I am sorry, I have no opinion on the matter. I am sure you do. So, don't mind me, I just want to talk audio and pie. -
A theta transport would be worth a try.I couldnt believe the difference I got after I replaced my adcom cdp with one.SDA-2BTL with custom IC
Adcom 565 monoblocks--Monarchy Audio M-10 preamp
Theta Data Basic Transport--Stello DA100 Signature DAC--Camelot Dragon Pro2 MK III
Harman Kardon T-55c TT
DH Labs Q-10 Signature Speaker Cables With Furez silver plated copper bananas
Revelation Audio Labs Prophecy Cryo-Silver Reference AES/EBU
Revelation Audio Labs Prophecy Cryo-Silver i2s digital cable
4 Furutech FP-314Ag with FI-11cu Plugs/FI-11AG IECs--- Power Cords
DH LABS REVELATIONS ICs-amps
Revelation Audio Labs Paradise cryo-silver ICs-Source to pre -
I would try other interconnects, or just give it more than one day. You did say you were listening 6 hours non stop, I know my ears will get a little tired after 4 hours or so. If you have a cd player to try I would try that just to see if that's the issue. However the solution wouldn't be getting a cd player. You would need to look in to another way to stream music if it's really the PS3. I know there's the Squeezebox and the Sonos.Setup:
2 Channel: Vienna Acoustics Mozart Grand, T+A P 1230R, Primare SPA21, Oppo BDP-105
PC: Vienna Acoustics Haydn Grand, Cambridge Azure 650A v2 , Peachtree iDAC, Denon DVD-3800BDCI -
I have been very happy with Audioquest Sky interconnects (silver) and Mont Blanc speaker cables (copper). Room treatments by GIK Accoustics really helped smooth things out. For me it was not brightness from the rig, it was irritation from the room itself.
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Room treatments? This is something always overlooked in most peoples systems. Speaker placement seating all play factors in the way ones system performs.
Can you snap some pics of the room , seating and setup so I can take a look.
DanDan
My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time. -
The Krell integrated can sound way too solid state at times.
So it's time to see what can improve. Move speakers, borrow some cables
or a CDP . One thing I've found is a second look at things and a few minor
changes can make a big difference in sound. First impressions seem to be good.
But that synergy thing can be rough at times. The Krells have a loyal following
for a reason. The power and clarity are there, it just needs a little help.
Don't give up yet."The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others. But it does me no injury for my neighbour to say there are twenty gods, or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg." --Thomas Jefferson -
Just got home from a late thursday night out... Wow this thread is blowin up!
I have read the v-dac needs a few hundred hours of play to get broken in. And the silver cables are sure to be adding to the fatigue. I have a new set of ICs that are half copper/half silver on the way. Hopefully these cables and the dac breaking in will be the ticket.
As far as the ps3 being a problem, I do not play cds, but stream lossless from my pc so its not the transport.
Before I had the b&k I was using a emotiva xpa-3. Now that was a bright, fatiguing amp.
2 songs and my ears were ringing! The krell does not do that. It is just so revealing. The b&k made every song sound "ok". 3D sounding. The krell reveals when a song is not recorded well. But when it sounds good, it sounds GOOD!
When I was using Pioneer Elite to control the Krell amp it was cold, boring, dry, and flat..
But still very detailed and clear. Now that im using the dac and the Krell's full package (amp and pre), it is ten times better.
Thanks for all your replys.
Mantis. I have a pic of my setup in my showcase.Living Room setup: Pioneer Elite VSX-21TXH, Krell KAV 300i, PS Audio DL III DAC, Tyler Acoustics Taylo 7u, Dynaudio Audience 120C+, SVS 25/31PCI, B-P-T Clean Power Center, Ps3, Panny 50" S1 Plasma, Tekline speaker cables, Audio Art interconnects, and Pangea power cables. -
Krell+silver=blech. Try copper, Kimber Heros or some Audioquest ICs would be my suggestion. Signal Cable if you're on a budget.
Not true! It depends on the equipment used. I'm currently using Signal cable silver IC's with my krells with great results. I find my krell amp/pre combo to be slightly warm/laid back sounding. The silver cables remedy this.SRT For Life; SDA Forever!
The SRT SEISMIC System:
Four main satellite speakers, six powered subs, two dedicated for LFE channel, two center speakers for over/under screen placement and three Control Centers. Amaze your friends, terrorize your neighbors, seize the audio bragging rights for your state. Go ahead, buy it; you only go around once. -
I'm using Ben's silver IC's between my Rotel RCD-855 with tube output and my Carver TFM-45 and it sounds absolutely delicious.SDA-1C (full mods)
Carver TFM-55
NAD 1130 Pre-amp
Rega Planar 3 TT/Shelter 501 MkII
The Clamp
Revox A77 Mk IV Dolby reel to reel
Thorens TD160/Mission 774 arm/Stanton 881S Shibata
Nakamichi CR7 Cassette Deck
Rotel RCD-855 with modified tube output stage
Cambridge Audio DACmagic Plus
ADC Soundshaper 3 EQ
Ben's IC's
Nitty Gritty 1.5FI RCM -
I will still use ben's ICs between the krell ht bypass and the pioneer elite for ht.
But for the dac I plan to use the Ultimate type c4 cables if the guy I bought them from on audiogon will ever send them. ( I bought them 4 days ago)
I love my setup now. Im listening to Pearl Jam Alive as we speak and it sounds amazing!Living Room setup: Pioneer Elite VSX-21TXH, Krell KAV 300i, PS Audio DL III DAC, Tyler Acoustics Taylo 7u, Dynaudio Audience 120C+, SVS 25/31PCI, B-P-T Clean Power Center, Ps3, Panny 50" S1 Plasma, Tekline speaker cables, Audio Art interconnects, and Pangea power cables. -
MIT Shotgun and AVt MA series would also be a step in the right direction for you.
Agreed!Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
might be the silver wires you are using... go with a good copper ones. it will tame that harshnessPolkFest 2012, who's going>?
Vancouver, Canada Sept 30th, 2012 - Madonna concert :cheesygrin: -
Copper over Silver. I/C's will make a difference and I can highly recommend MIT's. If you can't or don;t want to afford the big boys the AVT's are still most excellent. I have found very little to no difference in transports when using an excellent external DAC. I'd look hard at I/C's before farting around with the transport since you have an external DAC. Ben's SIlver's are hot on the high end. I'll add all Silver based cables tend to be hot on the high end which work for some systems and then not for others
As you move up the audio chain gear becomes more revealing of all your components. It's a double edged ****!!! Because as you get more and more resolution, it reveals more and more of whatever flaws are there.
Like I told you before. Isn't this hobby a blast!!:D
H9"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Puritan Audio PSM136 Pwr Condtioner & Classic PC's | Legend L600 | Roon Nucleus 1 w/LPS - Tubes add soul! -
I had to take the DVD/CDP player(denon2900) I was using out of the system because it did the same thing to me. I went back to an old Denon cdp and it smoothed out the top end enough I didn't have to do anything else. NO more fatigue at all.
I am on the "never ending search for a better system" and I keep about a dozen pairs of cables around to "TUNE" the sound. Silver cables seem much brighter to me and do come in handy for "warmer" gear. Copper helps tame some gear. Just my two cents worth here. -
I found the PS3 as a CDP to be aweful. Went to Rotel CDP and it took my digital music a huge step up over the PS3.Speakers: SDA-1C (most all the goodies)
Preamp: Joule Electra LA-150 MKII SE
Amp: Wright WPA 50-50 EAT KT88s
Analog: Marantz TT-15S1 MBS Glider SL| Wright WPP100C Amperex BB 6er5 and 7316 & WPM-100 SUT
Digital: Mac mini 2.3GHz dual-core i5 8g RAM 1.5 TB HDD Music Server Amarra (memory play) - USB - W4S DAC 2
Cables: Mits S3 IC and Spk cables| PS Audio PCs -
I dont use the cdp in the ps3, just stream lossless from the pc.
Can not wait to swap out the silver ICs and see the difference!
ThanksLiving Room setup: Pioneer Elite VSX-21TXH, Krell KAV 300i, PS Audio DL III DAC, Tyler Acoustics Taylo 7u, Dynaudio Audience 120C+, SVS 25/31PCI, B-P-T Clean Power Center, Ps3, Panny 50" S1 Plasma, Tekline speaker cables, Audio Art interconnects, and Pangea power cables.
