PS3 Slim Blu Ray Bitsream Audio

wingnut4772
wingnut4772 Posts: 7,519
edited October 2009 in Electronics
My PS3 60g 's Blu Ray player took a crap so I just went out and picked up the Slim. With the new PS3 I can output bitstream to my Onkyo Integra. Am I correct in understanding that by doing so the sound is now processed by my Integra's DACs whereas before I was hearing the old PS3 ( output PCM) DACs?
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  • mutelight
    mutelight Posts: 1,054
    edited October 2009
    Any PS3 before the Slim handled the decoding internally and then output in LPCM. You can do the same with the Slim but you also have the option to output the encoded bitstream as well, yes.
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  • leroyjr1
    leroyjr1 Posts: 8,785
    edited October 2009
    Yes your Integra will be doing the decoding. I like the sound a little better having my Pioneer receiver doing the decoding.
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  • wingnut4772
    wingnut4772 Posts: 7,519
    edited October 2009
    Yes. It actually does sound better with my Integra decoding. Or am I crazy?
    Sharp Elite 70
    Anthem D2V 3D
    Parasound 5250
    Parasound HCA 1000 A
    Parasound HCA 1000
    Oppo BDP 95
    Von Schweikert VR4 Jr R/L Fronts
    Von Schweikert LCR 4 Center
    Totem Mask Surrounds X4
    Hsu ULS-15 Quad Drive Subwoofers
    Sony PS3
    Squeezebox Touch

    Polk Atrium 7s on the patio just to keep my foot in the door.
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  • mutelight
    mutelight Posts: 1,054
    edited October 2009
    There shouldn't really be a difference between where the codec is decoded, it is most likely a placebo.
    // Panasonic AE8000 // Pioneer SC-57 // Polk Audio RTi A9 // Polk Audio CSiA6 //
    // Polk Audio FXi A6 // SVS PB12-NSD Subwoofer // Logitech Harmony Ultimate // Pro-Ject Debut III //
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  • Sherardp
    Sherardp Posts: 8,038
    edited October 2009
    mutelight wrote: »
    There shouldn't really be a difference between where the codec is decoded, it is most likely a placebo.

    Negative.
    Shoot the jumper.....................BALLIN.............!!!!!

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  • Sherardp
    Sherardp Posts: 8,038
    edited October 2009
    wingnut4772 wrote: »
    My PS3 60g 's Blu Ray player took a crap so I just went out and picked up the Slim. With the new PS3 I can output bitstream to my Onkyo Integra. Am I correct in understanding that by doing so the sound is now processed by my Integra's DACs whereas before I was hearing the old PS3 ( output PCM) DACs?

    Wingnut, by chance do you know what happened to cause the PS3 to crap out? If you are not interested in having it fixed, let me know and I may buy it off you.
    Shoot the jumper.....................BALLIN.............!!!!!

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  • wingnut4772
    wingnut4772 Posts: 7,519
    edited October 2009
    Sherardp wrote: »
    Wingnut, by chance do you know what happened to cause the PS3 to crap out? If you are not interested in having it fixed, let me know and I may buy it off you.

    Nope. I listed it in the FM. :)
    Sharp Elite 70
    Anthem D2V 3D
    Parasound 5250
    Parasound HCA 1000 A
    Parasound HCA 1000
    Oppo BDP 95
    Von Schweikert VR4 Jr R/L Fronts
    Von Schweikert LCR 4 Center
    Totem Mask Surrounds X4
    Hsu ULS-15 Quad Drive Subwoofers
    Sony PS3
    Squeezebox Touch

    Polk Atrium 7s on the patio just to keep my foot in the door.
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  • buymesome
    buymesome Posts: 281
    edited October 2009
    I do like the sound of bitsream audio better than have the player do it. I find better separation in the audio channels
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  • wingnut4772
    wingnut4772 Posts: 7,519
    edited October 2009
    buymesome wrote: »
    I do like the sound of bitsream audio better than have the player do it. I find better separation in the audio channels

    That's what I noticed too. The separation and panning seemed smoother to me. I still may be crazy though.
    Sharp Elite 70
    Anthem D2V 3D
    Parasound 5250
    Parasound HCA 1000 A
    Parasound HCA 1000
    Oppo BDP 95
    Von Schweikert VR4 Jr R/L Fronts
    Von Schweikert LCR 4 Center
    Totem Mask Surrounds X4
    Hsu ULS-15 Quad Drive Subwoofers
    Sony PS3
    Squeezebox Touch

    Polk Atrium 7s on the patio just to keep my foot in the door.
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  • cheddar
    cheddar Posts: 2,390
    edited October 2009
    wingnut4772 wrote: »
    My PS3 60g 's Blu Ray player took a crap so I just went out and picked up the Slim. With the new PS3 I can output bitstream to my Onkyo Integra. Am I correct in understanding that by doing so the sound is now processed by my Integra's DACs whereas before I was hearing the old PS3 ( output PCM) DACs?

    Has nothing to do with the DACs (digital/analog conversion chips). Just where the Dolby or DTS is decoded. They compress the original master using Dolby or DTS (TrueHD, DTS-HD MA, etc.). This compressed information has to be uncompressed (decoded) either in the PS3 or the Integra. If the PS3 decodes it, it converts it into the same PCM that the Integra does if fed a bitstream. The PCM is transferred to the Integra which has to use its DACs to convert the PCM into an analog signal that the speakers can understand.

    You only use a player's DACs if using the analog outs of a player. The PS3 only has stereo analog connections. So unless you're using those, it's digital all the way until the Integra converts to analog using its own DACs.
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  • mutelight
    mutelight Posts: 1,054
    edited October 2009
    Sherardp wrote: »
    Negative.

    Ah ok, great point.
    // Panasonic AE8000 // Pioneer SC-57 // Polk Audio RTi A9 // Polk Audio CSiA6 //
    // Polk Audio FXi A6 // SVS PB12-NSD Subwoofer // Logitech Harmony Ultimate // Pro-Ject Debut III //
    // Oppo BDP-103 // Microsoft Xbox One Day One Edition // Sony Playstation 4 1TB SSHD // Nintendo Wii U //
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  • cnh
    cnh Posts: 13,284
    edited October 2009
    cheddar wrote: »
    Has nothing to do with the DACs (digital/analog conversion chips). Just where the Dolby or DTS is decoded. They compress the original master using Dolby or DTS (TrueHD, DTS-HD MA, etc.). This compressed information has to be uncompressed (decoded) either in the PS3 or the Integra. If the PS3 decodes it, it converts it into the same PCM that the Integra does if fed a bitstream. The PCM is transferred to the Integra which has to use its DACs to convert the PCM into an analog signal that the speakers can understand.

    You only use a player's DACs if using the analog outs of a player. The PS3 only has stereo analog connections. So unless you're using those, it's digital all the way until the Integra converts to analog using its own DACs.

    And the winner is...! Cheddar, who is ABSOLUTELY right. Digital information is output whether it is bitstream or decoded LPCM...in BOTH cases as noted the DACs are applied to transform that info into analog sound for your speakers. It does not seem likely that there should be a hearable difference...but...listening is in the ear of the beholder in the end!


    cnh
    Currently orbiting Bowie's Blackstar.!

    Polk Lsi-7s, Def Tech 8" sub, HK 3490, HK HD 990 (CDP/DAC), AKG Q701s
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  • wutadumsn23
    wutadumsn23 Posts: 3,702
    edited October 2009
    Cheddar is the man, spot on. That guy really seems to know his crap when it comes to stuff like this. Like cnh said though, if you hear a difference, then hey who are we to argue, lol.

    -Jeff
    HT Rig
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  • mantis
    mantis Posts: 17,559
    edited October 2009
    This is one of those things that most say there is no audio difference. Craig Eggers from Dolby labs said there is no difference where it gets decoded. The sound quality should be exactly the same.
    I never tested this myself. I have a Ps3 80g and I listen as all others do in LPCM. It does sound fantastic. I think we are getting hung up on the front widow of our receivers. Seeing DD HD or DTS MA there gives us a level of satisfaction. LPCM does not. I also want to see the window light up hince my desire to get the Oppo.
    I might take a player home from work and do a shot out when I get some time or really have the desire to do so. I'm happy with my sound quality.
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
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  • cheddar
    cheddar Posts: 2,390
    edited October 2009
    wingnut4772 wrote: »
    That's what I noticed too. The separation and panning seemed smoother to me. I still may be crazy though.

    To be fair to Wingnut, the PCM input often gets processed differently on AVRs than a bitstream input. The LFE channel would contain more information than spec'd connections could handle if recorded at full strength. So on disk, it's -10db lower than the other channels. When you use bitstreaming, the AVR 'knows' to boost the LFE by 10db since it knows the original source was TrueHD, DTS-HD MA, etc. However, with player PCM, it could also come from an SACD etc. So many AVRs don't add the 10db boost automatically and you have to go into the configuration of your AVR and add it manually. A lack of punch in the bass when you compare lossless or even lossy bitstreamed tracks to player decoded tracks is a sure sign that you're not getting the required 10db LFE boost. It could also color the perception of other dynamics as well.

    In addition, AVRs could have a different default digital surround setting on the PCM input than on bitstreamed input. So there are lots of ways the two inputs could sound different that have nothing to do with the actual decoding process. One advantage to bitstream is that it avoids all this AVR configuration confusion. So if a person hears a difference between the two and doesn't want to bother with going into the menus to fix the problem, then bitstreaming is often an easier option. (But you will still have a problem with the rarer, third lossless audio blu-ray option, uncompressed PCM.)

    I have an Onkyo PR-SC885 which is almost identical to the previous model of Wingnut's pre/pro. And my Onkyo definitely had to be manually configured to boost the LFE by 10dbs on the PCM input.
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  • Sherardp
    Sherardp Posts: 8,038
    edited October 2009
    I can tell you now I hear an audible difference when my HD DVD Player is set to LPCM. Different animal somewhat since you guys are talking PS3 here. Just saying..........there maybe something going on there, not sure.
    Shoot the jumper.....................BALLIN.............!!!!!

    Home Theater Pics in the Showcase :cool:

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