CD players?

tcrossma wrote: »

I like the simplicity of popping in a CD and playing it. I'm not saying that a media-center approach doesn't have its pluses, because it does, but I think there's a lot to be said with a good old CD player too. I don't like having to rip CD's, manage a library, create playlists and hunt for songs. I do it with my IPod (barely) but much prefer just putting in a disc, kicking back on the couch, and listening to it.

The most arduous task is ripping the music. After that it's a piece of cake and actually is twice as fast as hunting, loading a single cd. I'm speaking of the SlimDevices Squeezbox music server. Others may vary, but in the end you won't find anything more convenient.

I was extremely real resistant to this idea as I;m old school and never thought I'd believe there would be no difference between a stand alone cdp and a wireless music server. I haven't heard one yet. I'm still evaluating and I put off doing this for a year because of concerns sound/musicality would drop a notch or two. It doesn't/hasn't one bit.

H9

P.s. I hate the iPod as an audiophile device so I can't speak of using it in my system. I am strictly ripping cd's in FLAC and streaming them wirelessly. The iPod has no place in an audiophile system even if the manufacturer provides a high level USB type port.

heiney9 wrote: »

P.s. I hate the iPod as an audiophile device so I can't speak of using it in my system. I am strictly ripping cd's in FLAC and streaming them wirelessly. The iPod has no place in an audiophile system even if the manufacturer provides a high level USB type port.

I only mentioned the IPod because it's the only device I use that requires that I rip music and manage a library on my computer. I use it in my car.

I like the music server concept and will most likely convert an unused desktop CPU to a music server. I'm having a real issue finding a drive that will read these big black discs that I have a lot of music stored on :rolleyes:

heiney9 wrote: »

P.s. I hate the iPod as an audiophile device so I can't speak of using it in my system. I am strictly ripping cd's in FLAC and streaming them wirelessly. The iPod has no place in an audiophile system even if the manufacturer provides a high level USB type port.

While that is your opinion, it certainly is not true. I am using the iPod Classic with a 120GB hard drive, and storing music on it using Apple lossless. At this point I have over 1300 classical “songs”, and 77GB free space left. When the iPod is used with the Wadia 170 iTransport, which outputs the digital data on the iPod via digital coax to the external DAC, the iPod is just as much an audiophile device as is any other music server. When the digital data is lossless, the DAC being used is the determining factor in regard to the music quality. While personal prejudice might cloud some people’s thinking, it does not change the facts.

As a side note, I have another Wadia, iPod, and headphones on order. Once it arrives I will take it, along with my “spare” Dac1 into work so I will be able to listen to audiophile level music while programming.

Bryston makes some of the best cd players, they are hand made, just very very expensive. Maybe you can bid for one on ebay?

treitz3 wrote: »

The fact is that if I played that i-pod on my rig, you would understand why they are not considered audiophile worthy. I have heard the differences on Apple loss less as well. They say it's loss less, but if I can detect the differences? Apparently it's not.

Trey, I would suggest not blocking out a tubed CDP entirely. You might want to open up your options. Maybe not now, but reconsider whenever the opportunity may present itself.

You must also be one of those who claim to hear differences in cables...;)

I'm with ya....

Trey, if I'm not mistaken you have not given the tubes time to burn in. You also IIRC have stock tubes in the Shanling. Knowing that, I would expect to have the same observations.

As far as using it as a transport? I've never used a DAC yet so I can not comment.

treitz3 wrote: »

The fact is that if I played that i-pod on my rig, you would understand why they are not considered audiophile worthy. I have heard the differences on Apple loss less as well. They say it's loss less, but if I can detect the differences? Apparently it's not.

stereophile – review by Wes Phillips

“For this review, I used a Wadia-supplied nano 3G and an iPod Classic 80GB. I listened to Apple Lossless Codec (ALC) files, which I ripped myself from my CDs, and I connected the iTransport to the digital input of a Simaudio Moon Evolution SuperNova CD player, so I could easily compare the ALC files with the original CD through the same DAC.”

“Stereophile has never been a fan of MP3, even at high bit rates—we disapprove of throwing away data. So we never reviewed an iPod until: 1) They had adequate capacity for high-resolution copies, and 2) Apple had developed ALC. (WAV, AIF, and FLAC are also good). So when Stereophile writes about iPods and suchlike, we aren't championing lossy MP3s, but what we deem are incredibly convenient transportation devices for storing audio files of "Red Book" quality.

But even granting that an ALC file is a bit-perfect copy of the original recording, having to listen to it through an iPod's 37-cent DAC chip did represent a parameter that was out of our control: the file's perfect, the hi-fi is perfect, but that DAC...not so much.”

“Feeding the Wadia's output to my Simaudio Moon Evolution SuperNova CD player's digital input and listening through a Cayin HA-1A headphone amplifier driving AKG K701 headphones with Cardas Fat Pipe cable, I was startled by the deep bass and detail in the Andante of Valentin Silvestrov's Symphony 5, as performed by Andrzej Borejko and the Ural State Philharmonic Orchestra (CD, Megadisc Classics MDC 7836). The cellos had me swooning with their lush tonal color, against which splashed descending harp arpeggios and discordant tone clusters. At the end of the movement, I frantically checked my iPod for the rest of the symphony. It wasn't there—quick, where's my CD? Surprisingly, I was able to find it, and seconds later I was listening to the disc on the SuperNova. Ahhhhhh...

Wait a minute—this sounds the same as it did before. But that was from an iPod. This is a CD—they're s'posed to be better.

Yes, yes—as I said earlier, that is the whole point of the 170iTransport. But knowing it intellectually and actually experiencing it were two different things. ”

“Oh, there I go again, talking about that music stuff. The Wadia made me do it—between iPod and CD, no differences to report here.”

“Footnote 2: I recorded the bits coming from the Wadia's coaxial S/PDIF output to my lab PC via the digital input of an RME soundcard, with Wes's iPod Nano playing a losslessly compressed file. I then compared that recording with a WAV rip from the original CD. The files were bit-for-bit identical, meaning that the 170iTransport is indeed transparent via its digital output.”

“Sidebar 2: Associated Equipment
Digital Sources: Apple iPod Classic & Nano 3G, Simaudio Moon Evolution SuperNova CD player.
Preamplifiers: Ayre K-1xe, Conrad-Johnson ACT2.
Headphone Amplifier: Cayin HA-1A.
Power Amplifier: Musical Fidelity Nu-Vista 300.
Loudspeakers: Thiel CS3.7, Wilson Audio Specialties WATT/Puppy 8.
Headphones: AKG 701 with Cardas Fat Pipe.
Cables: Interconnect: Shunyata Research Aries & Antares. Speaker: Shunyata Research Lyra.
Accessories: Ayre L-5xe line filter; Furutech eTP-609 distribution box; APC APCS15 AC line conditioner; Furutech RDP panels, RealTraps Mini & Mondo Traps.”

http://stereophile.com/digitalprocessors/1008wad/

the absolute sound – review by Robert Harley

“As expected, the iTransport sounded like the DAC to which it was connected. I store music on my iPod using Apple Lossless, which provides perfect bit-for-bit accuracy to the original with about a 40% reduction in storage requirements compared with uncompressed WAV files. In listening comparisons between the iTransport and the CDs from which the music was ripped, I thought the iTransport had a slight advantage. The iTransport had just a bit more space, bloom, and ambience than the CD.”

“The iTransport’s slightly-better-than-CD sound quality is a bonus; the real reason to buy the iTransport is that it turns your iPod (which you probably already own) into a music server worthy of feeding a high-end system.”

http://www.avguide.com/review/tested-wadia-170-itransport-ipod-dock

the absolute sound – review Chris Martens

“To try out the Wadia’s digital output, I connected the 170iTransport to a high performance outboard DAC which was hooked up to my reference stereo system. I ripped some test tracks to create losslessly encoded digital audio files in ALE (Apple Lossless Encoding) and WAV formats—the two formats Wadia recommends— and loaded them on a current generation iPod Classic, which I used as my test player. I listened carefully to the test tracks through the Wadia/iPod/ DAC combo and then—as an acid test—played the same tracks from the master CDs, using a high-quality CD player whose digital output was plugged into the same DAC I used for the Wadia/iPod tests. This made for an ideal A/B comparison, since the only things that changed were the digital source components themselves. My comparison tests convinced me that the Wadia/iPod/DAC combo performed at least as well as, if not better than, the CD player/DAC rig, with overall sound quality rivaling the performance of far more costly digital disc players or music servers.”

“How did the Wadia/iPod/DAC combo fare in comparison to the CD player/DAC combo? Very well, thank you. While you might think two digital sources playing the same digital material (the Wadia/iPod combo playing ALE and WAV files, and the CD player reading the same CD’s from which those files were ripped) would sound identical, the fact is—as audiophiles have known for years—they don’t. While the two sources were close enough in performance that I had to listen very carefully to pick out differences, the Wadia/iPod/DAC combination sounded a little richer, smoother, and delivered super-stable stereo imaging. By comparison, the CD player/DAC combination sounded a little less rich and smooth, offered perhaps a hair more midrange and treble detail, but produced slightly flatter and less three-dimensional images.”

“Plug your iPod into the 170iTransport, and bolt it up to a good DAC and you’ll have an audio player that not only rivals but in some cases handily outperforms multi-thousand-dollar music servers and CD players.”

http://www.avguide.com/review/wadia-170itransport-ipod-dock

Tubed or not, I'm not sure Jolida or Rega would fit the description of what he's looking for sound wise.

BlueFox wrote: »

stereophile – review by Wes Phillips

“For this review, I used a Wadia-supplied nano 3G and an iPod Classic 80GB. I listened to Apple Lossless Codec (ALC) files, which I ripped myself from my CDs, and I connected the iTransport to the digital input of a Simaudio Moon Evolution SuperNova CD player, so I could easily compare the ALC files with the original CD through the same DAC.”

“Stereophile has never been a fan of MP3, even at high bit rates—we disapprove of throwing away data. So we never reviewed an iPod until: 1) They had adequate capacity for high-resolution copies, and 2) Apple had developed ALC. (WAV, AIF, and FLAC are also good). So when Stereophile writes about iPods and suchlike, we aren't championing lossy MP3s, but what we deem are incredibly convenient transportation devices for storing audio files of "Red Book" quality.

But even granting that an ALC file is a bit-perfect copy of the original recording, having to listen to it through an iPod's 37-cent DAC chip did represent a parameter that was out of our control: the file's perfect, the hi-fi is perfect, but that DAC...not so much.”

“Feeding the Wadia's output to my Simaudio Moon Evolution SuperNova CD player's digital input and listening through a Cayin HA-1A headphone amplifier driving AKG K701 headphones with Cardas Fat Pipe cable, I was startled by the deep bass and detail in the Andante of Valentin Silvestrov's Symphony 5, as performed by Andrzej Borejko and the Ural State Philharmonic Orchestra (CD, Megadisc Classics MDC 7836). The cellos had me swooning with their lush tonal color, against which splashed descending harp arpeggios and discordant tone clusters. At the end of the movement, I frantically checked my iPod for the rest of the symphony. It wasn't there—quick, where's my CD? Surprisingly, I was able to find it, and seconds later I was listening to the disc on the SuperNova. Ahhhhhh...

Wait a minute—this sounds the same as it did before. But that was from an iPod. This is a CD—they're s'posed to be better.

Yes, yes—as I said earlier, that is the whole point of the 170iTransport. But knowing it intellectually and actually experiencing it were two different things. ”

“Oh, there I go again, talking about that music stuff. The Wadia made me do it—between iPod and CD, no differences to report here.”

“Footnote 2: I recorded the bits coming from the Wadia's coaxial S/PDIF output to my lab PC via the digital input of an RME soundcard, with Wes's iPod Nano playing a losslessly compressed file. I then compared that recording with a WAV rip from the original CD. The files were bit-for-bit identical, meaning that the 170iTransport is indeed transparent via its digital output.”

“Sidebar 2: Associated Equipment
Digital Sources: Apple iPod Classic & Nano 3G, Simaudio Moon Evolution SuperNova CD player.
Preamplifiers: Ayre K-1xe, Conrad-Johnson ACT2.
Headphone Amplifier: Cayin HA-1A.
Power Amplifier: Musical Fidelity Nu-Vista 300.
Loudspeakers: Thiel CS3.7, Wilson Audio Specialties WATT/Puppy 8.
Headphones: AKG 701 with Cardas Fat Pipe.
Cables: Interconnect: Shunyata Research Aries & Antares. Speaker: Shunyata Research Lyra.
Accessories: Ayre L-5xe line filter; Furutech eTP-609 distribution box; APC APCS15 AC line conditioner; Furutech RDP panels, RealTraps Mini & Mondo Traps.”

http://stereophile.com/digitalprocessors/1008wad/

the absolute sound – review by Robert Harley

“As expected, the iTransport sounded like the DAC to which it was connected. I store music on my iPod using Apple Lossless, which provides perfect bit-for-bit accuracy to the original with about a 40% reduction in storage requirements compared with uncompressed WAV files. In listening comparisons between the iTransport and the CDs from which the music was ripped, I thought the iTransport had a slight advantage. The iTransport had just a bit more space, bloom, and ambience than the CD.”

“The iTransport’s slightly-better-than-CD sound quality is a bonus; the real reason to buy the iTransport is that it turns your iPod (which you probably already own) into a music server worthy of feeding a high-end system.”

http://www.avguide.com/review/tested-wadia-170-itransport-ipod-dock

the absolute sound – review Chris Martens

“To try out the Wadia’s digital output, I connected the 170iTransport to a high performance outboard DAC which was hooked up to my reference stereo system. I ripped some test tracks to create losslessly encoded digital audio files in ALE (Apple Lossless Encoding) and WAV formats—the two formats Wadia recommends— and loaded them on a current generation iPod Classic, which I used as my test player. I listened carefully to the test tracks through the Wadia/iPod/ DAC combo and then—as an acid test—played the same tracks from the master CDs, using a high-quality CD player whose digital output was plugged into the same DAC I used for the Wadia/iPod tests. This made for an ideal A/B comparison, since the only things that changed were the digital source components themselves. My comparison tests convinced me that the Wadia/iPod/DAC combo performed at least as well as, if not better than, the CD player/DAC rig, with overall sound quality rivaling the performance of far more costly digital disc players or music servers.”

“How did the Wadia/iPod/DAC combo fare in comparison to the CD player/DAC combo? Very well, thank you. While you might think two digital sources playing the same digital material (the Wadia/iPod combo playing ALE and WAV files, and the CD player reading the same CD’s from which those files were ripped) would sound identical, the fact is—as audiophiles have known for years—they don’t. While the two sources were close enough in performance that I had to listen very carefully to pick out differences, the Wadia/iPod/DAC combination sounded a little richer, smoother, and delivered super-stable stereo imaging. By comparison, the CD player/DAC combination sounded a little less rich and smooth, offered perhaps a hair more midrange and treble detail, but produced slightly flatter and less three-dimensional images.”

“Plug your iPod into the 170iTransport, and bolt it up to a good DAC and you’ll have an audio player that not only rivals but in some cases handily outperforms multi-thousand-dollar music servers and CD players.”

http://www.avguide.com/review/wadia-170itransport-ipod-dock

OH MY GOD Bluefox.................do you really have to rehash this? We all know where you stand and you quoted the same articles the last time you argued you personal opinion. This thread isn't about iPods or iDocks........let it go already and stay on topic. I was making a general statement not trying to drag yet another thread into the crapper.............let it go and enjoy your iPod and iDock and realize some of us have higher aspirations. It really is OK to AGREE to DISAGREE.

H9

BlueFox wrote: »

Sorry. My bad. I was just adding to the point of a music server and DAC being a valid CDP alternative.

Well it is a valid point when you look at it from that POV. I guess with all the crap going on in previous posts I took yours wrong. It's all good.

H9

Zero wrote: »

The *only* advantage an all solid-state source will have in the affordable realm is superior lower noise floor. That's it.

And lower THD.But its debatable if that is sonically significant.

Does the ps audio dac really help the sound quality? very curious