Mantis Official Pioneer Elite SC-07 Review.

13

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  • bsoko2
    bsoko2 Posts: 1,449
    edited March 2009
    mantis wrote: »
    Maybe I'm crazy. Maybe I'm just loving my new receiver and am blinded by the new excitement. Or maybe this is one hell of a good piece. Music is fantastic. Even with a Ipod. Are you kidding me????

    Ok so I have the acoustic Kip Winger Down Incognito on my Ipod recorded in lossless. It's connected into the USB jack. I just got my Macbook Pro back so I figured I would chill out on the couch and surf a bit. Checking out this and that. I also Installed Ilife 09 which is another topic all together. By the way I really missed my Laptop. I had to break out the old Windows laptop and use that around the house if I wasn't going to sit at one of the computer desks.
    So back to the music. For the sheer hell of it I put the Sc-07 in Acoustic ( I never use any kind of DSP except Dolby Prologic IIx music which works pretty damn good) and popped in the Ipod, played the Kip Winger tracks. I'm sitting here not really listening but background listening at best. The Track How far will we go comes on and this is a track I usually skip over as I'm not really into a Country feel most of the time. I listen to this to hear the Winger songs unplugged, but as I said I'm just chillin and letting it play. Kip puts out a "And I know this means nothing to yeah" and caught my attention big time. I had to back that track up and listen again. Holly effin ****. My god where did all that come from. the depth of tone is unbelievable, I do have a Ipod connected correct? Check. This is a receiver? Check. I am running the wrong load speakers right? Check.
    I'm starting to fall in love with my speakers again. I'm sitting here typing this in shock. Now I question if my Rotel separates did this??? Well I never had correct Ipod connectivity. The SC-07's Killer Wolfson DAC's Are DAC ing (LOL) the music and it sounds like a high end cd player. Can this be possible? Check.
    People you are reading about a man who is just tickled pink about this SC-07. I wish I would have done this a long time ago. Acoustic music is unreal for a receiver. This shocking report is due to this is a receiver, not a high end separate system, this is not your Fathers Rotel. But a lonely ICE receiver from Japan that should be sub par with music and nice for theater. It should clip out running a full 4 ohm load speaker package, it should have no dynamics at all, it should sound flat and lifeless and I should be sitting here telling all of you how I'm already running out the door to buy another Rotel amp to power my very power hungry speakers. But this is not the case.

    If anybody needs me, I'll be here on my couch listening to my system. WOW!!!

    Dan

    Now you know what a set of Polk SDA's sound like.:D

    Bill
    My 2012 HT Room - http://www.avsforum.com/t/1416077/bsoko2-new-ht-june-2012
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  • mantis
    mantis Posts: 17,324
    edited March 2009
    bsoko2 wrote: »
    Now you know what a set of Polk SDA's sound like.:D

    Bill

    Thanks but I owned Sda 2b's years ago. They where nice speakers but not my cup of tea.

    Dan
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
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  • olilugo
    olilugo Posts: 405
    edited March 2009
    Have any of you compared the SC-05/07 to the B&K Ref70, Marantz 8003 and rotel 1570? I am interested in Sound quality comparison as primary consideration. I want to to buy an SC-05 and use it as a pre-pro.
    Current HT setup
    Mains: B&W 804s
    Center: Polk CSi5
    Surround: Polk FXi3
    Sub: Velodyne DLS-3750R
    Receiver: Pioneer SC-07
    Amplifier: Sunfire TGA5200
    TV: Sony KDS60A2020
    DBP: Sony DBP-S350
    CDP: Pioneer DV-48AV
    Interconnect cables: SignalCable analog II
    speaker cables: SignalCable Ultra Speaker Cables Bi-wire
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  • mantis
    mantis Posts: 17,324
    edited March 2009
    olilugo wrote: »
    Have any of you compared the SC-05/07 to the B&K Ref70, Marantz 8003 and rotel 1570? I am interested in Sound quality comparison as primary consideration. I want to to buy an SC-05 and use it as a pre-pro.

    They are the exact pieces I choose the SC-07 over. Rotel was my first choice followed closely be B&K. Once I found they where not for me, I went after Marantz. I found holes in there game but didn't find any in Pioneer's other then they don't make a dedicated preamp.

    Pure sound quality you will be pleasantly surprised by the Pioneer ICE amps if you so choose to use them. As a pre I was wonderfully surprised. B&K may have the very last word in overall sound quality only, but has to many holes in there game to even be considered by me. You may feel differently.

    I was once a huge B&k fan. I installed there products with pride. Now I can't stand the sight of them. It's a damn shame. I wish they would have turned it around and go back to doing what they do.

    Dan
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
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  • leroyjr1
    leroyjr1 Posts: 8,785
    edited March 2009
    Watched a bunch of movies this weekend on my ps3 & bdp-350. I think the sound is better when having the SC-07 do the decoding.
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  • Sherardp
    Sherardp Posts: 8,038
    edited March 2009
    leroyjr1 wrote: »
    Watched a bunch of movies this weekend on my ps3 & bdp-350. I think the sound is better when having the SC-07 do the decoding.

    Naturally.
    Shoot the jumper.....................BALLIN.............!!!!!

    Home Theater Pics in the Showcase :cool:

    http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showcase/view.php?userid=73580
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  • mantis
    mantis Posts: 17,324
    edited March 2009
    leroyjr1 wrote: »
    Watched a bunch of movies this weekend on my ps3 & bdp-350. I think the sound is better when having the SC-07 do the decoding.

    I'm gonna perform this shootout once I find a stand alone blu ray player I like. I assume the receiver will do a better job but from what I learned, it's the same. I wanna hear it for myself.

    Tell me more about your weekend, did you try the same movie in both players?

    Dan
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
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  • leroyjr1
    leroyjr1 Posts: 8,785
    edited March 2009
    mantis wrote: »
    I'm gonna perform this shootout once I find a stand alone blu ray player I like. I assume the receiver will do a better job but from what I learned, it's the same. I wanna hear it for myself.

    Tell me more about your weekend, did you try the same movie in both players?

    Dan



    The Hulk
    Dark Knight
    Iron man
    Transporter 3
    007


    Watched them on both ps3 and bdp-350 and liked the receiver decoding. Didn't think at first it wouldn't be a difference but it was.
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  • mantis
    mantis Posts: 17,324
    edited March 2009
    leroyjr1 wrote: »
    The Hulk
    Dark Knight
    Iron man
    Transporter 3
    007


    Watched them on both ps3 and bdp-350 and liked the receiver decoding. Didn't think at first it wouldn't be a difference but it was.

    Thats very cool, i own all the same Blu rays so I can conduct the same exact test.

    cool man

    Dan
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
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  • Falcon01
    Falcon01 Posts: 89
    edited March 2009
    Hey Mantis, or anyone else with a Pioneer Elite receiver :)

    I picked up an Elite VSX-01 a couple of days ago and I'm still playing with it to get the best sound but one thing I noticed is no matter what I do, the display screen always shows "PCM", even when Bitstreaming audio from my HD DVD player. I understand that it does this from my PS3 but even on my old receiver (Yamaha) when I was playing regular DVD's on the PS3 I would get the Dolby Digital or DTS up there when I was using those audio tracks.

    What gives? I was hoping to see "Dolby TrueHD" at the very least when selecting those audio tracks on the HD DVD player since it is being Bitstreamed.

    I should mention that when I'm watching cable TV I do see "Digital" up there but when I'm on the HD DVD (Bitstream) or the PS3 (PCM for HD audio tracks) I only see "PCM" on the display.

    I called Pioneer TWICE today and they were completely useless.
    Pioneer 50" Plasma (PDP 5080 HD)
    Pioneer Elite VSX-01
    Panasonic BD35
    PS3
    Monster MP HTS1600 Power Conditioner
    Paradigm Monitor 7's v3 (Front)
    Paradigm CC370 v3 (Center)
    Paradigm ADP 370's v2 (Surround)
    Polk Audio Rti4's (Back)
    Paradigm PW 2100 V2 (Sub)

    Coming Soon: 5 channel or 7 channel amp.
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  • cnh
    cnh Posts: 13,284
    edited March 2009
    On most all receivers that's exactly what it should read (PCM) because the PS3 decodes the HD sound into a PCM signal which is then processed by the Pioneer as already decoded. Since the Pioneer is NOT decoding, why would it register Dolby TruHD or DTS HD--the only reason you see readings for other formats is that the PS3 is sending bitstream that the Pioneer 'decodes'; unless you have a blu-ray player that can bitstream HD you're not going to see anything but PCM or some variety of that on your receiver.

    cnh
    Currently orbiting Bowie's Blackstar.!

    Polk Lsi-7s, Def Tech 8" sub, HK 3490, HK HD 990 (CDP/DAC), AKG Q701s
    [sig. changed on a monthly basis as I rotate in and out of my stash]
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  • leroyjr1
    leroyjr1 Posts: 8,785
    edited March 2009
    cnh wrote: »
    On most all receivers that's exactly what it should read (PCM) because the PS3 decodes the HD sound into a PCM signal which is then processed by the Pioneer as already decoded. Since the Pioneer is NOT decoding, why would it register Dolby TruHD or DTS HD--the only reason you see readings for other formats is that the PS3 is sending bitstream that the Pioneer 'decodes'; unless you have a blu-ray player that can bitstream HD you're not going to see anything but PCM or some variety of that on your receiver.

    cnh


    I think he's talking about HD DVD not blu ray.
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  • Falcon01
    Falcon01 Posts: 89
    edited March 2009
    Yes, I was talking about the HD DVD player being Bitstreamed but the receiver still showing PCM.

    Incidently I went through the PS3's menu's and I figured out why I was getting the Dolby Digital and DTS lights on my old Yammy. It turns out there is a seperate setting to Bitstream or PCM the audio when going through the optical connection. That's a seperate setting to the audio for the HDMI which I obviously set to Linear PCM.

    Still I wonder why when going through the HD DVD player (HD-A3) the receiver still shows PCM?
    Pioneer 50" Plasma (PDP 5080 HD)
    Pioneer Elite VSX-01
    Panasonic BD35
    PS3
    Monster MP HTS1600 Power Conditioner
    Paradigm Monitor 7's v3 (Front)
    Paradigm CC370 v3 (Center)
    Paradigm ADP 370's v2 (Surround)
    Polk Audio Rti4's (Back)
    Paradigm PW 2100 V2 (Sub)

    Coming Soon: 5 channel or 7 channel amp.
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  • leroyjr1
    leroyjr1 Posts: 8,785
    edited March 2009
    I'll check when I get off work in a hour and I'll let you know if it happens to me also.
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  • leroyjr1
    leroyjr1 Posts: 8,785
    edited March 2009
    Falcon01 wrote: »
    Yes, I was talking about the HD DVD player being Bitstreamed but the receiver still showing PCM.

    Incidently I went through the PS3's menu's and I figured out why I was getting the Dolby Digital and DTS lights on my old Yammy. It turns out there is a seperate setting to Bitstream or PCM the audio when going through the optical connection. That's a seperate setting to the audio for the HDMI which I obviously set to Linear PCM.

    Still I wonder why when going through the HD DVD player (HD-A3) the receiver still shows PCM?



    Just checked my Toshiba HD-DVD player and it doesn't bitstream over HDMI.
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  • Sherardp
    Sherardp Posts: 8,038
    edited March 2009
    leroyjr1 wrote: »
    Just checked my Toshiba HD-DVD player and it doesn't bitstream over HDMI.

    When set to Auto the XA2 will bitstream over HDMI, what models are you using?
    Shoot the jumper.....................BALLIN.............!!!!!

    Home Theater Pics in the Showcase :cool:

    http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showcase/view.php?userid=73580
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  • leroyjr1
    leroyjr1 Posts: 8,785
    edited March 2009
    Sherardp wrote: »
    When set to Auto the XA2 will bitstream over HDMI, what models are you using?

    Toshiba D3


    When I set mine to auto it still reads PCM on the receiver.
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  • Sherardp
    Sherardp Posts: 8,038
    edited March 2009
    leroyjr1 wrote: »
    Toshiba D3


    When I set mine to auto it still reads PCM on the receiver.

    Mine will say Dolby True HD or DD+ when set to Auto in the HDMI audio setting. If the disc has option for 5.1 uncompressed then it will read LPCM.
    Shoot the jumper.....................BALLIN.............!!!!!

    Home Theater Pics in the Showcase :cool:

    http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showcase/view.php?userid=73580
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  • Falcon01
    Falcon01 Posts: 89
    edited March 2009
    Interesting. Thanks fellas. Maybe the low end models don't Bitstream? I was pretty sure they did, I'll check again and try the Auto feature (if mine has one) but Leroy tried it with the HD D3 (same as my HD A3) and it didn't work for him. Yet another reason why I should have got the XA2 when I had the chance.
    Pioneer 50" Plasma (PDP 5080 HD)
    Pioneer Elite VSX-01
    Panasonic BD35
    PS3
    Monster MP HTS1600 Power Conditioner
    Paradigm Monitor 7's v3 (Front)
    Paradigm CC370 v3 (Center)
    Paradigm ADP 370's v2 (Surround)
    Polk Audio Rti4's (Back)
    Paradigm PW 2100 V2 (Sub)

    Coming Soon: 5 channel or 7 channel amp.
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  • Pedler
    Pedler Posts: 95
    edited March 2009
    Falcon01, the HD A3 only decodes onboard so you will get PCM on the receiver like the PS3.

    Mantis, seeing how you have installed many 05/07's is there an extra advantage to going to the 07 over the 05 other than the extra HDMI output and thx ultra 2 plus, and 10 more watts

    eg. the specs look the same but is there something you would say we should consider.

    I am on the fence on which to choose.

    Also thanks again for the replys on my other posts.
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  • iskandam
    iskandam Posts: 704
    edited March 2009
    That's a very good question. Seems that the only difference between the two is the 10 extra watts on the 07, an extra HDMI output, the higher THX rating, and the Burr Brown DAC. But they share similar chassis and the same weight. I'm inclined to think that none of them translate to difference in sound quality. Seems that Pioneer just wants to expand their market base by introducing two separate price points
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  • Sherardp
    Sherardp Posts: 8,038
    edited March 2009
    07 uses wolfson Dacs, not Burr Brown.
    Shoot the jumper.....................BALLIN.............!!!!!

    Home Theater Pics in the Showcase :cool:

    http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showcase/view.php?userid=73580
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  • mantis
    mantis Posts: 17,324
    edited April 2009
    Pedler wrote: »
    Falcon01, the HD A3 only decodes onboard so you will get PCM on the receiver like the PS3.

    Mantis, seeing how you have installed many 05/07's is there an extra advantage to going to the 07 over the 05 other than the extra HDMI output and thx ultra 2 plus, and 10 more watts

    eg. the specs look the same but is there something you would say we should consider.

    I am on the fence on which to choose.

    Also thanks again for the replys on my other posts.

    Sample rate converter, Component video for zone 2 and a extra digital coax input.

    Both receivers are a fantastic choice. Tell me more about your system and room and maybe I can help you pick one.

    Dan
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
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  • Pedler
    Pedler Posts: 95
    edited April 2009
    I have the Klipsch Reference RF-5 series speakers and my room is 12 wide by 9 feet high by 22 length

    I am using a PS3 for my cd and and dvd need to upgrade this also I was thinking about the denon 2500B blueray dvd player...
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  • Pedler
    Pedler Posts: 95
    edited April 2009
    I guess for the little extra the wolfson dac's over burr brown may justify the extra cost over the 05
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  • Disc Jockey
    Disc Jockey Posts: 1,013
    edited April 2009
    Pedler wrote: »
    I guess for the little extra the wolfson dac's over burr brown may justify the extra cost over the 05

    They both use the exact same Wolfson dacs, the 07 has a Burr-Brown sample rate converter.
    "The secret of happiness is freedom. The secret of freedom is courage." Thucydides
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  • mantis
    mantis Posts: 17,324
    edited April 2009
    Disc Jockey wrote: »
    They both use the exact same Wolfson dacs, the 07 has a Burr-Brown sample rate converter.

    Correct, both units have Wolfson 8740 Dac's to be exact. They both sound awesome. For the extra money, go with the Sc-07. Why skimp out on a already fantastic deal.

    Dan
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
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  • dbaldus
    dbaldus Posts: 730
    edited April 2009
    mantis,

    I'm currently messing around with SACD playback using my PS3 to my SC-05 over HDMI. The issue I am having is that my SACDs keep showing up as 88.2kHz PCM at the receiver side. Unless I'm mistaken, The SC-05 IS capable of receiving a 176 kHz signal, right?

    After some digging, I came across this bit of information:

    http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=785221&page=3

    From thread 165 at the top of the page:

    "The PCM signal which is over 88kHz will be converted to 88.2kHz when the
    listening mode is "AUTO SURROUND" or "DIRECT" due to capacity of memory for DSP.

    If you set to "PURE DIRECT", the unit will be output with real frequency.
    In this case, MCACC and PHASE CONTROL are disabled."

    It seems strange to me that MCACC and Phase Control would be disabled in "Pure Direct" mode since those two things make music sound SO much better. Can you confirm this?

    If this is true, could you maybe give some sort of justification as to why this would be? It just seems backwards to me as the point of those controls are to INCREASE the sound quality... or am I missing something here?

    Thanks!
    Derek

    2-channel
    Squeezebox Touch| MSB Analog DAC | Audio Research Ref 40 Anniversary Edition| Pass Labs X350.8 | Wilson Audio Sasha 2

    Home Theater
    Arcam AVR 550 | GoldenEar Triton One | GoldenEar SuperCenter XXL | GoldenEar Aon 3 | JL Audio Fathom F113v2
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  • mantis
    mantis Posts: 17,324
    edited April 2009
    dbaldus,
    I get PCM 88.2 as well on the Ps3 using SACD over PCM via HDMI.Auto surround mode. MCACC is on and so is Phase control. Direct is the same PCM 88.2 .Pure Direct cuts out Phase control and MCACC. It's a Pure signal direct from source to amp with no kind of correction.
    I will I have to compare using my Elite dv58av.

    give me a minute here.......Let me drop the disc in there and see what it says.....

    Ok in the Pioneer Elite dv58av it does the same exact thing. PCM 88.2. It seems to work correctly, the sound is coming from the correct speakers and sounds awesome. I could be mistaken but I think the Elite dv58av sounds better playing SACD's over the Ps3. I will have to conduct a VS to comfirm but right now just switching back and forth, the Dv58av sounds richer. It should sound exaclty the same, they are both streaming the audio over HDMI. There is no analog IC's. I can however try that way as well. I will when I got in for the VS battle just to compare the Wolfson DAC's in the SC-07 vs the Burr Brown's in the dv58av.

    Dan
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
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  • Pedler
    Pedler Posts: 95
    edited April 2009
    My Name Is Pedler...GOT ICE:cool:

    Can anyone join? or is their a special hand shake...I have to do first!
    :D
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