Mantis Official Pioneer Elite SC-07 Review.

leroyjr1 · March 2009

Mantis

I hate you:). I was very satisfied with my Onkyo 805 and here you come with your review, now I'm ready to upgrade to the Elite 07/05.

Where's a good online retailer for the elite receivers?

Thanks

mantis · March 2009

vmaxer wrote: »

Mantis,

HELP..

I have been playing with my HT system lately and have purchased an XPA-3 Emotiva amp, also a used Parasound HCA1000A, and a used Sunfire Cinema Grand 200 X 5 (don't have the Sunfire yet). I am still undecided as to which amp I will use but I was about to try one of the Sunfire TGP 5"s processors since you can get them for $1,400.00 now on closeout. After reading your review I am wondering what to do?? I can still return the Emo, just had it a bit over a week , and I can resale the other stuff if needed. Would I be better off with the separate amps and a good processor, use a receiver as a processor (a tech at Parasound indicated this was not a good option), or use a receiver like the Elite 07 or 09 for everything?? This will be for my main HT which I also use to listen to 2 channel audio also. Everything I have been reading on this forum lately has lead in the direction of external amps are a must....then I read your review. I am confused and welcome any help I can get....

Thank you!

I looked over your speaker package, classic Rt series with the very nice rt55's. Many people around here years ago , this was there favorite speaker. so add amps or not. Well I don't think you need them with the power of the Sc-07. It is THX ULTRA 2 rated which can fill a large room. At 140 watts of power for 8 ohm load 91 db sensitive speaekrs, I don't see the need for the extra power. If you upgrade to higher end speakers, then yeah , get a nice matching power amp to drive them properly.

What most people miss is the fact that the speakers decide on how much power is needed to drive them properly. The room also adds to this factor. If you have a very large room and hard to drive speakers, then yes you need a amp. If you have a large room and the speakers you own, then no you don't. You also can listen to 2 channel music and be quite happy with this receiver. I came from Rotel seperates and I'm quite pleased.

Of course Parasound is going to tell you using a receiver as a pre is not a good idea. I agree. I'm one who is not a fan of doing this but right now the market is all over the place with preamps and buying one that fits the bill can be extremely fustrating. Just read some of my past posts and you will quickly learn why I went against my own grain and used my SC-07 as a pre.

I say sell everything and get one. I think you will be happy for years to come. You'll be able to sit down and enjoy your system.

Dan

mantis · March 2009

comfortablycurt wrote: »

Don't get me wrong, I'm happy with the sound quality of my Onkyo, though I'll admit I don't have a real lot of experience with other brands to compare it to. The Onkyo came out on top IMO between the Yamaha, Denon, Sony and Onkyo's that I demo'ed though. Unfortunately, there aren't any Pioneer dealers near me, the closest is about 60 miles away. I'm wishing I would have taken a trip and listened to one though in hindsight.

Either way, I won't be upgrading the 606 for a couple years at the soonest. I've got other aspects of my system that need attention first(i.e. 2 ch. rig). So, I've still got plenty of time to decide. I'm hoping I can at least get my ears on one of the Elite's sometime soon, to see what all the hype's about.

I'm still undecided whether I want to get another AVR, or just make the jump to a pre-pro/power amp. Like I said though...plenty of deciding time yet in those regards.

Does anyone know if Pioneer has any plans of releasing a pre-pro version of the Elite AVR's? From all of the positive reviews I've read about their AVR's, an Elite pre-pro would probably be a very good selling item.

If pioneer releases a preamp like the one in the SC-09 I would be all over it. I wish for that day to come. I would be first in line. Then have external ICE power amps would just take the cake. The SC-09 is very close to this level of performance in one box. I really like it but I just couldn't swing it. I want to replace my entire system and the SC-09 would kill a lot of money. But if I had the extra money I would already own one.

Dan

mantis · March 2009

leroyjr1 wrote: »

Mantis

I hate you:). I was very satisfied with my Onkyo 805 and here you come with your review, now I'm ready to upgrade to the Elite 07/05.

Where's a good online retailer for the elite receivers?

Thanks

Don't hate , you will be thanking me later. The 805 is nice just not as nice as the 07.

I don't deal with online retailers. I work for a retailer. There should be many places to pick one up. Best Buy has them allday.

Dan

comfortablycurt · March 2009

mantis wrote: »

If pioneer releases a preamp like the one in the SC-09 I would be all over it. I wish for that day to come. I would be first in line. Then have external ICE power amps would just take the cake. The SC-09 is very close to this level of performance in one box. I really like it but I just couldn't swing it. I want to replace my entire system and the SC-09 would kill a lot of money. But if I had the extra money I would already own one.

Dan

Well, hopefully they'll end up releasing one. Like I said, I won't be in the market to replace my Onk for a couple years anyway...so maybe they'll have a pre-pro by the time I'm ready to. That'd be great! If it's got a price tag similar to the SC-09 though...I think I'll be passing it by. 7000 dollars is about 5 grand above my projected price range...lol

The SC-07 would fit very nicely into my price range though when that time comes. I'm sure it will have come down in price even more by that time too.

cnh · March 2009

leroyjr1 wrote: »

Mantis

I hate you:). I was very satisfied with my Onkyo 805 and here you come with your review, now I'm ready to upgrade to the Elite 07/05.

Where's a good online retailer for the elite receivers?

Thanks

I agree with Mantis about these amps. But I wouldn't hate him. As he said the 805 is a nice receiver. But he also said his 'sound' preferences lead 'him' away from Onkyo 'sound' to the Pioneer. Now the Pioneer is clean, clear, powerful, quick and defined and detailed and more. Not everyone will necessarily 'like' or think it has the perfect sound. I like it, myself, but I also really like that 805 sound, a lot in fact. If I owned an 805 I just bought I must admit I would be curbing any upgraditis...there are limits to the latest and greatest. And like Curt those limits are my wallet. Regardless of how cheap the Pioneers are I just can't keep spending and spending. And let's face it...the next step is going to be ICEpower amps with several terabyte hard drive servers and blue-tooth wireless and....and...and.....and....and....fill in the blank _________.

That's the reason that I just bought a two channel amp on audiogon for about 300 and yes, I will use my Denon AVR as a pre/pro for a while longer.

However for those of you who can afford it ICE yourselves! That is the future IMO.

cnh

leroyjr1 · March 2009

mantis wrote: »

Don't hate , you will be thanking me later. The 805 is nice just not as nice as the 07.

I don't deal with online retailers. I work for a retailer. There should be many places to pick one up. Best Buy has them allday.

Dan

Just wondering if I would benefit using it as a pre only. I don't have any plans on getting rid of my rotel 1095.

seafire · March 2009

IMHO the more power the better.There is no such thing as giving speakers too much power..obviously the more wattage would mean tighter contol on the volume knob..but ive seen that 90% of blown speakers are because the amp was run into clipping (dc leakage=speaker killer) and 10% because of over powering!Things like dynamics , attack , damping and control will always sound better with more wattage.So if you have the money run seperates with the pioneer or any other good receiver as preamp or start with something good like the Pioneer and add on later;)

vmaxer · March 2009

mantis wrote: »

I looked over your speaker package, classic Rt series with the very nice rt55's. Many people around here years ago , this was there favorite speaker. so add amps or not. Well I don't think you need them with the power of the Sc-07. It is THC ULTRA 2 rated which can fill a large room. At 140 watts of power for 8 ohm load 91 db sensitive speaekrs, I don't see the need for the extra power. If you upgrade to higher end speakers, then yeah , get a nice matching power amp to drive them properly.

What most people miss is the fact that the speakers decide on how much power is needed to drive them properly. The room also adds to this factor. If you have a very large room and hard to drive speakers, then yes you need a amp. If you have a large room and the speakers you own, then no you don't. You also can listen to 2 channel music and be quite happy with this receiver. I came from Rotel seperates and I'm quite pleased.

Of course Parasound is going to tell you using a receiver as a pre is not a good idea. I agree. I'm one who is not a fan of doing this but right now the market is all over the place with preamps and buying one that fits the bill can be extremely fustrating. Just read some of my past posts and you will quickly learn why I went against my own grain and used my SC-07 as a pre.

I say sell everything and get one. I think you will be happy for years to come. You'll be able to sit down and enjoy your system.

Dan

Dan,

I appreciate your response...To add a little more informtion:
You could spend a lot of time trying to come up with a worse room for HT or music and probably couldn't. The room is completely open up to the second floor (18-20 ft ceiling), and there has a large opening into the second floor hallway. The room is also open to the rest of the house on the ground floor, pretty bad!:eek::eek: Additionally, I like to watch movies loud - lots of action and sound!:D

The Onkyo 806 is probably going back also for some other rasons, but I wasn't impressed with it in a much smaller room and it is also THX Ultra 2 Plus certified?? Maybe just got a bad one?? I added the Parasound to it on the fronts and it helped a lot!!

The guy at Parasound did say some receivers would work well but that a lot of them just had the pre outs as a convenince and weren't vey good.

As far as speakers go, I have been thinking about upgrading to either RTi12, or possibly going with LSi 15 or 25's in front. Any experience with these?? Can I get by with just matching the center (how important is the center, will mine work?) and keeping the surrounds, which will be all fx1000's soon?

I like what I've been reading about the Elite 07 lately, just want to make the best deision I can for now..

With all of the features the 07 has over and above the Sunfire TGP05 I am starting to lean that direction. I just can't hardly swing the $3,000.00 for the latest Sunfire, which may not be any better anyway?

Again, Thank you and all the others for your responses. This really helps a lot since I don't have anywhere local to go see and listen to the systems.:D

Falcon01 · March 2009

Hey Mantis,

I have a Pioneer Elite question for you since you seem to be the resident guru here. I'm getting an Elite VSX-01 receiver and was thinking about connecting an external 7 channel amp to it. The thing is the 2 amps I was looking at are an adcom (7 X 125 Watts, all channels driven I believe) and an Emotiva UPA-7 (same as Adcom, 7 X 125 Watts, all channels driven).

My question is would I hear a noticeable improvement in sound with only 125 Watts per channel amp since the receiver outputs roughly the same wattage? Do I have to go up to 200 Watts per channel to notice a difference in sound?

Let me know what you think as I'm thinking of doing this shortly and I hear good things about Adcom amps.

Thanks in advance.

Sherardp · March 2009

Most hear would suggest 200 wpc, but I suggest you look at some the specs for all channels driven. 125 maybe plenty for you, but normally its 200 watts recommended.

Falcon01 · March 2009

Sherardp wrote: »

Most hear would suggest 200 wpc, but I suggest you look at some the specs for all channels driven. 125 maybe plenty for you, but normally its 200 watts recommended.

So if I'm going to hook up an external amp it would have to be 200 wpc to notice a difference right?

The reason I ask is because if there's barely any difference with an external amp that produces 125 wpc...well then I won't even bother. I'll just use the receivers power instead until I can find a more powerful amp to hook up to it.

Sherardp · March 2009

You may surely notice the difference with dynamics and some change in sound quality. Overall 200 wpc will surely give you the headroom though should you like to listen at reference levels.

Toolfan66 · March 2009

Try using the 5 channel amp to power just your front stage L,R,C speakers. and let your receiver power your surounds, and see if that makes a change. worth a try anyways. that way the load is not just on the receiver or the amp. my guess is it will help some.

Falcon01 · March 2009

Thanks fellas.

mantis · March 2009

leroyjr1 wrote: »

Just wondering if I would benefit using it as a pre only. I don't have any plans on getting rid of my rotel 1095.

It works great as a pre, better then I expected it to. I also Owned a RMB1095 and I just sold it. I'm upgrading my entire system so I have been selling it off piece by piece. I love and hate upgrading.

The RMB1095 as a **** to ship. It weighed in at 93lbs in it's original double box. WOW man and heavy as hell. Hard to carry as the box is very big.

What kind of speakers do you have? I ask as the SC-07 has some damn good sounding internal amps. The new ICE amps are very nice . I'm liking mine, I can't wait to get all my new speakers.

Dan

mantis · March 2009

vmaxer wrote: »

Dan,

I appreciate your response...To add a little more informtion:
You could spend a lot of time trying to come up with a worse room for HT or music and probably couldn't. The room is completely open up to the second floor (18-20 ft ceiling), and there has a large opening into the second floor hallway. The room is also open to the rest of the house on the ground floor, pretty bad!:eek::eek: Additionally, I like to watch movies loud - lots of action and sound!:D

The Onkyo 806 is probably going back also for some other rasons, but I wasn't impressed with it in a much smaller room and it is also THX Ultra 2 Plus certified?? Maybe just got a bad one?? I added the Parasound to it on the fronts and it helped a lot!!

The guy at Parasound did say some receivers would work well but that a lot of them just had the pre outs as a convenince and weren't vey good.

As far as speakers go, I have been thinking about upgrading to either RTi12, or possibly going with LSi 15 or 25's in front. Any experience with these?? Can I get by with just matching the center (how important is the center, will mine work?) and keeping the surrounds, which will be all fx1000's soon?

I like what I've been reading about the Elite 07 lately, just want to make the best deision I can for now..
With all of the features the 07 has over and above the Sunfire TGP05 I am starting to lean that direction. I just can't hardly swing the $3,000.00 for the latest Sunfire, which may not be any better anyway?

Again, Thank you and all the others for your responses. This really helps a lot since I don't have anywhere local to go see and listen to the systems.:D

Preamps don't last that long anymore. I can't see spending 3k on a preamp that doesn't do everything you want it to. The new Anthem D2 is a monster and I could be very happy with it for years but at the asking price I can't justify spending that kind of money. It's pretty damn fantastic and I keep checking it out. I work with them so I gotta be around them.

If you buy the SC-07 as a pre, I think you will really like it. It's loaded and works very very well.

No , center channels are the most Important speaker in a Home theater and it must match the fronts perfectly. I also feel the rears have to match perfectly but if your going to make a move like this , the rears are least important.

Dan

mantis · March 2009

Falcon01 wrote: »

Hey Mantis,

I have a Pioneer Elite question for you since you seem to be the resident guru here. I'm getting an Elite VSX-01 receiver and was thinking about connecting an external 7 channel amp to it. The thing is the 2 amps I was looking at are an adcom (7 X 125 Watts, all channels driven I believe) and an Emotiva UPA-7 (same as Adcom, 7 X 125 Watts, all channels driven).

My question is would I hear a noticeable improvement in sound with only 125 Watts per channel amp since the receiver outputs roughly the same wattage? Do I have to go up to 200 Watts per channel to notice a difference in sound?

Let me know what you think as I'm thinking of doing this shortly and I hear good things about Adcom amps.

Thanks in advance.

Hello,
tell me more about your system and room and I can answer your question a lot better. As for as quality of adcom, they are great amps at there price range. We have several Adcoms laying around and I have worked with Adcom for years. The new company Emotiva I know nothing about other then what I have read on the internet. They seem to have a nice following but I never heard one go so I can't comment on it.
So depending on your system, I will let you know if I feel you need a amp, the 01 has awesome power and I have been shocked by it many times with some of the systems I have installed with it. It's so much better then lasts years model. Pioneer hit a home run with the 01. I love that thing.

Dan

leroyjr1 · March 2009

In my basement rig I'm running a RTI a 7.2 setup which consists of RTI A5's, csi a6, 4 fxi a6, and dual MP4K

I want to simplify that setup possibly with just a receiver and no amps so the girl can operate it and leave my other HT rig for me. Just wondering if the $700 difference from my 805 to the 05/07 is really worth $700.

Falcon01 · March 2009

mantis wrote: »

Hello,
tell me more about your system and room and I can answer your question a lot better. As for as quality of adcom, they are great amps at there price range. We have several Adcoms laying around and I have worked with Adcom for years. The new company Emotiva I know nothing about other then what I have read on the internet. They seem to have a nice following but I never heard one go so I can't comment on it.
So depending on your system, I will let you know if I feel you need a amp, the 01 has awesome power and I have been shocked by it many times with some of the systems I have installed with it. It's so much better then lasts years model. Pioneer hit a home run with the 01. I love that thing.

Dan

Hey Dan, thanks for your response.

In my 5.1 setup I have Paradigm Monitor 7's (max input power of 130 watts, suitable amplifier power range 15-180 watts) on the front with the matching CC370 center channel (max input power of 120 watts, suitable amplifier power range 15-175 watts). In the back I have a pair of Polk Rti4's which I will eventually upgrade but this is what I have in the meantime. Oh I forgot, I have a 12" Velodyne DPS 12 sub if that makes any difference. All speakers are 8 ohms (except for the sub of course) and the Paradigms have a 93 db/ 90 db sensitivity.

My room is shared with our dining room but it is basically rectangular in shape and roughly 45 feet by 18 feet with a big opening on the right side the leads to the kitchen and hallway (not ideal I know).

I'm just basically wondering if I will notice much of a difference if I hook up the external Adcom 7607 7-channel amp to the VSX-01 or should I just use the receivers internal amp and wait for a while and get an amp with 150+ WPC to notice it. I'm looking for clarity, definition, bigger soundstage and a wider soundfield.

If it's not going to make much of a difference I can wait and go bigger as far as the external amp is concerned.

Thank you in advance for your time.

mantis · March 2009

leroyjr1 wrote: »

In my basement rig I'm running a RTI a 7.2 setup which consists of RTI A5's, csi a6, 4 fxi a6, and dual MP4K

I want to simplify that setup possibly with just a receiver and no amps so the girl can operate it and leave my other HT rig for me. Just wondering if the $700 difference from my 805 to the 05/07 is really worth $700.

I'm not quite sure exactly what your asking here. What does 700.00 difference mean? What are you comparing here?

mantis · March 2009

Falcon01 wrote: »

Hey Dan, thanks for your response.

In my 5.1 setup I have Paradigm Monitor 7's (max input power of 130 watts, suitable amplifier power range 15-180 watts) on the front with the matching CC370 center channel (max input power of 120 watts, suitable amplifier power range 15-175 watts). In the back I have a pair of Polk Rti4's which I will eventually upgrade but this is what I have in the meantime. Oh I forgot, I have a 12" Velodyne DPS 12 sub if that makes any difference. All speakers are 8 ohms (except for the sub of course) and the Paradigms have a 93 db/ 90 db sensitivity.

My room is shared with our dining room but it is basically rectangular in shape and roughly 45 feet by 18 feet with a big opening on the right side the leads to the kitchen and hallway (not ideal I know).

I'm just basically wondering if I will notice much of a difference if I hook up the external Adcom 7607 7-channel amp to the VSX-01 or should I just use the receivers internal amp and wait for a while and get an amp with 150+ WPC to notice it. I'm looking for clarity, definition, bigger soundstage and a wider soundfield.

If it's not going to make much of a difference I can wait and go bigger as far as the external amp is concerned.

Thank you in advance for your time.

With your speaker package, no external amps are required even with the 01.
It's a wonderful internal amp for your speaker package.

Dan

mantis · March 2009

Maybe I'm crazy. Maybe I'm just loving my new receiver and am blinded by the new excitement. Or maybe this is one hell of a good piece. Music is fantastic. Even with a Ipod. Are you kidding me????

Ok so I have the acoustic Kip Winger Down Incognito on my Ipod recorded in lossless. It's connected into the USB jack. I just got my Macbook Pro back so I figured I would chill out on the couch and surf a bit. Checking out this and that. I also Installed Ilife 09 which is another topic all together. By the way I really missed my Laptop. I had to break out the old Windows laptop and use that around the house if I wasn't going to sit at one of the computer desks.
So back to the music. For the sheer hell of it I put the Sc-07 in Acoustic ( I never use any kind of DSP except Dolby Prologic IIx music which works pretty damn good) and popped in the Ipod, played the Kip Winger tracks. I'm sitting here not really listening but background listening at best. The Track How far will we go comes on and this is a track I usually skip over as I'm not really into a Country feel most of the time. I listen to this to hear the Winger songs unplugged, but as I said I'm just chillin and letting it play. Kip puts out a "And I know this means nothing to yeah" and caught my attention big time. I had to back that track up and listen again. Holly effin ****. My god where did all that come from. the depth of tone is unbelievable, I do have a Ipod connected correct? Check. This is a receiver? Check. I am running the wrong load speakers right? Check.
I'm starting to fall in love with my speakers again. I'm sitting here typing this in shock. Now I question if my Rotel separates did this??? Well I never had correct Ipod connectivity. The SC-07's Killer Wolfson DAC's Are DAC ing (LOL) the music and it sounds like a high end cd player. Can this be possible? Check.
People you are reading about a man who is just tickled pink about this SC-07. I wish I would have done this a long time ago. Acoustic music is unreal for a receiver. This shocking report is due to this is a receiver, not a high end separate system, this is not your Fathers Rotel. But a lonely ICE receiver from Japan that should be sub par with music and nice for theater. It should clip out running a full 4 ohm load speaker package, it should have no dynamics at all, it should sound flat and lifeless and I should be sitting here telling all of you how I'm already running out the door to buy another Rotel amp to power my very power hungry speakers. But this is not the case.

If anybody needs me, I'll be here on my couch listening to my system. WOW!!!

Dan

metal83 · March 2009

Mantis, I've been sitting back relaxing and listening to music all afternoon so far, and i'm right there with you in your excitement about this receiver...WOW!!!

mantis · March 2009

metal83 wrote: »

Mantis, I've been sitting back relaxing and listening to music all afternoon so far, and i'm right there with you in your excitement about this receiver...WOW!!!

I'm also a Metal fan, hardcore right out of the 80's. DUDE do you like Winger? If so dude go download Kip Winger Down Incognito and listen. Run it on your Ipod and plug in USB. Be prepared to be amazed.

I have not ran any Metallica yet but I got mad amount of music on the pod, Its all lossless 2 so high quality. It's not suppose to sound this good,

Dan

Toolfan66 · March 2009

I went out today and picked up Pearl Jam 10 180 Gram Vinyl. Sitting here all awe struck. This LP + SC-07 is FANTASTIC. I also picked up Queensryche Operation Mindcrime as well on 180 gram.

Dan do you use Pure Direct on your 07 ? I tried it and i like it but i find myself going back to stereo mode. Playing vinyl of course would be Analog Direct.

Curious what you have your db set at on your speakers?

Larry.

SolidSqual · March 2009

Cool review. Thanks Dan.

mantis · March 2009

TOOLFORLIFEFAN wrote: »

I went out today and picked up Pearl Jam 10 180 Gram Vinyl. Sitting here all awe struck. This LP + SC-07 is FANTASTIC. I also picked up Queensryche Operation Mindcrime as well on 180 gram.

Dan do you use Pure Direct on your 07 ? I tried it and i like it but i find myself going back to stereo mode. Playing vinyl of course would be Analog Direct.

Curious what you have your db set at on your speakers?

Larry.

I set all speakers to small with a 80 hz setting leveled at 75 db .

Sherardp · March 2009

I run mine in Pure Direct for 2channel stuff. This AVR is a very nice piece, that's including the 05 as well. One simply cant go wrong with either. Enjoy guys.

leroyjr1 · March 2009

I'm falling in love. The 07 sounds fantastic.

Mantis Official Pioneer Elite SC-07 Review.

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