Should I upgrade from my LSi series to Definitive's BP7000SC System?

be83663

Right at this moment, my system consists of LSi9s for the Front and Rear Surround pairs, LSiC for the Center, LSiFX for the Side Surrounds, and two Velodyne DSL-5000Rs, as can be seen in the pictures below.
I have always wanted Definitvie systems since I thought of building a Home Theatre System, and now I am considering if it will ever be an upgrade if I move to Definitive's BP7000SC system plus a pair of BP7001 for the Rear Surrounds; it will be about a $12,000 upgrade. So I want to be careful if it will ever be worth an upgrade.
Would anyone know about Definitive's BP7000 speakers? They are massive at 150 lb each and 14" subwoofer with 2 14" radiators equipped with 1800 watts Class D amplifier built into the speaker.
And their Center speaker alone weighs 62 lbs with its own 10 lbs subwoofer inside.
I know that the guys who built Definitive used to work for Polkaudio a while back, before opening their own company.
If anyone is familiar with the Definitives, please shed some light on their system, compared to Polkaudio LSi system.
Thanks.

Toxis

what is it about the LSI's you think need to be upgraded? Since owning your system, have you listened to the Definitives? Does it sound 12k better? Only you can answer that.

leroyjr1

I've heard them locally and they sound fantastic, but $12000 is a lot and your money will go further going the used route. They go for around $5500 and right now on Audiogon there's a pair in great condition for $2600 obo. Just a thought and yes they sound alot better than the lsi's.( IMO )

be83663

I don't know much about the actual implications, but the Definitive 7000SC has one more 1" dome tweeters and two more upper bass/midrange drivers that are 1.25" larger. I do not care much about Definitive's 1800 watts subwooofer, since I am content with my two 600 watts Velodyne amplifiers.

Face

I'm not sure bi-polar speakers would work well in that room. Plus, they appear to be a little "hot" up top.

leroyjr1

be83663 wrote: »

I don't know much about the actual implications, but the Definitive 7000SC has one more 1" dome tweeters and two more upper bass/midrange drivers that are 1.25" larger. I do not care much about Definitive's 1800 watts subwooofer, since I am content with my two 600 watts Velodyne amplifiers.

With the 7000sc's you won't need the Velo's

Sherardp

Personally and take no offense but placement is everything. From the pics your room looks a little tight on space. Is it possible to play with placement and see how it works for you? Also if you insist on floorstanders, why not give the LSi15s a shot before spending that 12k. If your not happy, you could easily sell them make your coin back, and go splurge from there. I think those DTs will need to breathe a tad.

mantis

The BP series is a serious theater system with weird musical abilities. I'm assuming you purchased the Lsi's due to their musical abilities over theater correct? If you want to retain musical clarity and yet still have a wonder theater experience , look into the Mythos series. If you are going to reuse your subs then go with the Mythos 1 fronts , 8 center , and 2 pairs of Gem XL's for surround and surround back. This would be a very killer system and a nice upgrade from the Lsi's. The Mythos series has more detail and a clearer top end in my opinion. The 1's are crazy nice sounding speakers and are 2000.00 retail. Your upgrade would be a lot less. You could put the extra money into other areas of your system.

be83663

Thank you for the advise.
I did play with the placements in a few different ways, and based on the recommended viewing distance relative to my T.V. size of 52", which was calculated by multiplying 52" with 1.63= 85 inches= 7 feet away from my T.V., I placed my speakers.
Mines actually sound great, but I was just wondering what extra tweeters and larger extra mid-range woofers of BP7000 speakers would do for the overall sound improvement, combined with two of their killer 1800 watts subwoofers.
I actually bought my LSi speakers for the movies, as I hardly use them for the musics.
I am still doing some more research and thinkings as to what would be a better upgrade from what I have eventually, or if I will ever need one; I am also considering Paradigm Signature series.
As suggested, I will also consider just replacing my front pair with LSi25s.

be83663

Hi, Anonymouse, that would be a very nice idea.
How do I upgrade the crossovers on my LSi9s?

I did notice that the only crossover difference between my LSi9s and LSi25s was that LSi25 has HPF of 80 Hz, and so that it covers frequencies between 80 and 800 hz better overall than my LSi9s that do not have HPF at 80 Hz. Currently, I use my pre-amplifier setting so that all my speakers have HFP of 80 Hz., but I do not know if it lessens the quality compared to using the innate speaker crossover settings.

And I am using Outlaw Audio's Model 7700 7-Channel Balanced for an amplifier for all my speakers.

be83663

Thanks, Anonymouse.
I looked at your forum link for a discussion of changing a crossover setting for the LSi9s, and it is a little too complicated to my taste.

I guess I will just set my speakers at FULLBAND in my pre-amplifier setting, instead of setting HPF at 80 Hz then. I just wanted to get a better mid-range sound out of woofers by lessening their burden of lower frequency sound below 80 Hz that will be taken care of by my subwoofers.

be83663

Thanks again, Anonymouse.

I will keep sending my crossover board to Ben, as a future option.

For now, I will play with setting my pre-amplifier, Onkly PR-SC885, HPF between 50 and 80 Hz, and placing my subwoofers, and changing their phases, to better seamlessly blend the sound between them. I just do not know how well my Onkyo will function as setting HPFs for my LSi9s compared to the innate built-in LSi25 crossover boards.

I still have an impression that I will not get as good mid-range between 200 and 800 Hz in my LSi9s this way as LSi25 would though, unless I change my LSi9 crossover boards.

Thanks for your advise.

mantis

be83663 wrote: »

Thank you for the advise.
I did play with the placements in a few different ways, and based on the recommended viewing distance relative to my T.V. size of 52", which was calculated by multiplying 52" with 1.63= 85 inches= 7 feet away from my T.V., I placed my speakers.
Mines actually sound great, but I was just wondering what extra tweeters and larger extra mid-range woofers of BP7000 speakers would do for the overall sound improvement, combined with two of their killer 1800 watts subwoofers.
I actually bought my LSi speakers for the movies, as I hardly use them for the musics.
I am still doing some more research and thinkings as to what would be a better upgrade from what I have eventually, or if I will ever need one; I am also considering Paradigm Signature series.
As suggested, I will also consider just replacing my front pair with LSi25s.

In my opinion the BP series especially the 7000's would excite you in ways the Lsi's can not. They have a huge theater experience and wonder punch down bottom end. One just has to run 1 clip of there favorite movie and want them you will.
I strongly suggest you find somewhere you can demo them , you will be amazed on there performance. Crazy badass theater speakers.

dave shepard

There is a whole lot more to making a speaker sound great desides having an extra tweeter and a larger driver, just too much to get into. You will have to get your ears on a set and see how they work for you you my find that they do not but another design will. Just because a speaker may have a highly respected tweeter dosen't mean that it has to perform outstanding more then likely if that is what they boast about then more then likely they do so to try to make up for where it most likely is lacking the mid driver is sooo improtant. IMHO if you have a stunning mid driver that blends well with an average tweeter that would better the speaker that has a steller tweeter with a run of the mill Mid. driver. There is alot more information comming thru the Mid. then the tweeter but even that can turn to crap if they are not mated with a properly designed, quality X-Over.
Like I said you must get your ears on something if you feel your current choice is lacking. My guess is there must be something your system is not doing for you or you would not have asked.

dave shepard

anonymouse wrote: »

Spend $500 on upgrading the crossovers in your 9s before you write off the LSi series. What are you sing to power them?

I see this all the time. Not to start a fight but would someone please call Polk and tell them they made a mess of their X-Over design.

For $500 you can add that to the total cost of the speaker so when you need to off load them (because mabey for some reason or another they still don't do something for you) you are that much further in the hole. I say take the $500 and sell the speakers if that is what you feel you need to do and take all that money and find something, you will be $500 to the good on top of the sale price. That is after you feel you have exhausted all reasonable means of getting them to perform (unmodded).

Face

dave shepard wrote: »

I see this all the time. Not to start a fight but would someone please call Polk and tell them they made a mess of their X-Over design.

First off, their design isn't a mess. FR is pretty linear(especially the LSi15), and distortion is low. The issue is the quality of parts used, due to a price price point Polk had to meet. And because of this message board, Polk is well aware of this.

For $500 you can add that to the total cost of the speaker so when you need to off load them (because mabey for some reason or another they still don't do something for you) you are that much further in the hole. I say take the $500 and sell the speakers if that is what you feel you need to do and take all that money and find something, you will be $500 to the good on top of the sale price. That is after you feel you have exhausted all reasonable means of getting them to perform (unmodded).

You can mod a pair of LSi15's with good parts for $300, the other models for $150-200. That $150-300 brings the LSi's to a much higher level.

Have you heard a pair of modded LSi's?

mantis

I haven't who is sending me a pair for review?

Ok I will require both crossovers to be sent so I can listen both ways. It's been many years since I owned any Lsi's and I haven't Installed a pair in like 2 years. To top it all off I just listened to the Lsi9's against the Rainmakers and it wasn't fair.

Help a brother out and send me a pair.

mantis

anonymouse wrote: »

To be clear, I'm not dissing the definitive speakers at all. I have never heard that model, so I do not know. What I do know is that the crossover mods I did on my 9s made them a completely different, easier to drive and overall awesome sounding speaker. I was not unhappy with them before the mods, but after the mods they sound simply liquid, with a lot more bass and top end than before.

Your out in Chicago? I didn't know that or I would have dropped a line while I was there. I was in town for 4 days. I loved it there. I would totally move to Chicago. I got nothing bad at all to say about that city.

With all that being said , I'm so looking for a pair of Lsi's to demo with the Modded crossover. I wanna hear the differences.

be83663

dave shepard wrote: »

Like I said you must get your ears on something if you feel your current choice is lacking. My guess is there must be something your system is not doing for you or you would not have asked.

I do like my LSi system combined with a pair of Velodyne DLS-5000Rs. I can't complain.
I just thought since the LSi system sounds so good, much more expensive Definitive system developed by similar-minded people who knew about Polkaudio, might bring the experience to one level higher, because of Definitive's bigger and more tweeters, woofers, and subwoofers.
I know that it would be an $10,000 upgrade. The question is, is the-most-likely an improvement worth that much of money.

mantis

be83663 wrote: »

I do like my LSi system combined with a pair of Velodyne DLS-5000Rs. I can't complain.
I just thought since the LSi system sounds so good, much more expensive Definitive system developed by similar-minded people who knew about Polkaudio, might bring the experience to one level higher, because of Definitive's bigger and more tweeters, woofers, and subwoofers.
I know that it would be an $10,000 upgrade. The question is, is the-most-likely an improvement worth that much of money.

I will tell you this , find a dealer that has them properly setup and chime back in after you catch your breath.

juliusbk4

be83663 wrote: »

I do like my LSi system combined with a pair of Velodyne DLS-5000Rs. I can't complain.
I just thought since the LSi system sounds so good, much more expensive Definitive system developed by similar-minded people who knew about Polkaudio, might bring the experience to one level higher, because of Definitive's bigger and more tweeters, woofers, and subwoofers.
I know that it would be an $10,000 upgrade. The question is, is the-most-likely an improvement worth that much of money.

Thinking will cost you..I remember thinking, it never ended pretty. Does that 12K include an the added amp upgrade as well? IMO Polks are THE point of deminishing returns. Upgrade your subs if you're itchin to spend to get that room locking bass slam. Can't go wrong there.

juliusbk4

The only thing Id consider replacing the polks with someday, when i grow up, would be the JBL Project Array 1400 Array Loudspeaker. This loudspeaker just sound crazy good to me. I would get the whole array series, the only thing is there is no piano black..:mad: I need that piano gloss.

be83663

I was considering spending $12,000 just to upgrade the speaker system without changing my Outlaw audio Model 7700 7-Channel Balanced amplifier.

Hey, Juliusbk4, you have a killer setup, including a 70" Sony Bravia HDTV and a JL subwoofer that looks so sleek and is so powerful!
It says that the Onkyo TX-NR5007 is pending on your list. Are you thinking of using that receiver to power your whole system, because I did not see any amplifier on your list of setup?
It is an awesome receiver, but it will not be an optimal choice for your entire LSi series, I am sure you would know this. Maybe considering the TX-NR5007 as a pre-amplifier? Getting a pre-amplifier and an amplifier combo for $2,900 from Outlaw audio, for example, would be a little more expensive than the receiver alone, but certainly will bring out much more from your awesome system!

Here are the links that I have recommended to another member on this site.
https://www.outlawaudio.com/mofcart/combos.html
http://outlawaudio.com/products/886.html
http://outlawaudio.com/products/7700.html
Hope this helps!

dave shepard

Face wrote: »

First off, their design isn't a mess. FR is pretty linear(especially the LSi15), and distortion is low. The issue is the quality of parts used, due to a price price point Polk had to meet. And because of this message board, Polk is well aware of this.

You can mod a pair of LSi15's with good parts for $300, the other models for $150-200. That $150-300 brings the LSi's to a much higher level.

Have you heard a pair of modded LSi's?

I would also look forward to giving them an audition, one with and one without the modded X-Over, that would be the only way of really arriving to a true conclusion as to the results and if the added expense would be worth it.

hearingimpared

I just wanted to chime and say that I really like your room treatments. I can see them really helping a two channel rig but what benefits does it give you with HT as it's mostly dialog and sound effects?

be83663

Hi, Hearingimpaired.

Mainly, I treated my room with a bunch of acoustic panels, because ever since I upgraded from Monitor series to the LSi series for my 7.2 Home Theater System two years ago, my ears felt fatigue and got tired easily, even before finishing watch just one 2-hour movie.
I posted my problem in this forum back then, and another member suggested that I give myself a try with acoustic panels and see if it would solve my problem.
Later I felt that it is not the panels that eased my ears, but just something else-- LSi break-in periods, my new Outlaw Model 7700 amplifier warming-up period, my ears have gotten damaged to neutralize my problem to the point-of-no-return, or whatever it may has been; I still have not figured it out what made my proble better or obsolete now.

The panels made the sound pin-point better and dampen the sound for a better or worse effect overall, just like what they are supposed to do.
I can't complain with what they are doing for my HTS setup; and I do not use my system much for a stereo music listening.

juliusbk4

be83663 wrote: »

I was considering spending $12,000 just to upgrade the speaker system without changing my Outlaw audio Model 7700 7-Channel Balanced amplifier.

Hey, Juliusbk4, you have a killer setup, including a 70" Sony Bravia HDTV and a JL subwoofer that looks so sleek and is so powerful!
It says that the Onkyo TX-NR5007 is pending on your list. Are you thinking of using that receiver to power your whole system, because I did not see any amplifier on your list of setup?
It is an awesome receiver, but it will not be an optimal choice for your entire LSi series, I am sure you would know this. Maybe considering the TX-NR5007 as a pre-amplifier? Getting a pre-amplifier and an amplifier combo for $2,900 from Outlaw audio, for example, would be a little more expensive than the receiver alone, but certainly will bring out much more from your awesome system!

Here are the links that I have recommended to another member on this site.
https://www.outlawaudio.com/mofcart/combos.html
http://outlawaudio.com/products/886.html
http://outlawaudio.com/products/7700.html
Hope this helps!

Thanks be83663, I found out my wife's expecting again before I could finish what I was doing..:D When I did my initial Demo the dealer was using a yamaha Z11. It sounded great! I just wanted the extra features that come with the Onkyo. If it doesn't sound right when I finish hooking everything up I'll be in the market for that Outlaw you suggested...eventually. [Wife in school FT with Daycare for 2 is an instant killer] It seems to be very popular and reasonably priced.

be83663

I was not using my Second Velodyne DLS-5000R Subwoofer all these times!

I just learned a week ago that I had Connected my Subwoofers in a Totally Wrong Way!

Ever since I bought two subwoofers, I ran a subwoofer RCA cable from a pre-amp sub outlet to my first subwoofer speaker inlets and from its speaker outlets to my second subwoofer. Later I found out that all my subs have HPF of 80 Hz or 100 Hz, depending on its switch, from speaker outlets. So basically I was using my second sub for sound frequencies between 80 and 120 Hz, since I set its LPF at 120 Hz too. Add that to my pre-amp LPF setting of 80 Hz, my second sub was really producing just a rolling off sound from 80 to 120 Hz range, barely not being used at all.

Now I am using a Y-splitter, 1-Male to 2-Female one, from the pre-amplifier sub outlet to run cables to each subwoofers. I also let the LPF control knobs on the back of each subs to Direct setting corresponding to 200 Hz, instead of previous setting at 100 Hz for my first sub and 120 Hz for my second sub to induce staggered cutoff points.

The sound is so much better--it is a Night and Day difference, as if having a complete different set of Home Theatre System!!! I just put my subwoofer to Jazz/Classic setting that has the tightest, cleanest, and lowest distortion setting among the sub's 4 different Listening Mode settings, compared to a previous Movie setting that is supposed to have extended down to a lower frequency range producing more bass. But I am getting way more bass sound in this Jazz/Classic setting from Both of my Subwoofers now. It fills up the entire room.

It is so good to the point that I should consider getting the entire Definive BP7000SC System, for now.

And I set HPFs in my pre-amplifier to 80 Hzs for all my front, center, side surround, and rear surround speakers to take thier loads off of a bass sound, for a better midrange sound; and it is making a diffenece in the sound I am hearing for better as well!

be83663

I listened to a pair of Definitive 7002 front speakers set up at a local Best Buy, connected only to a receiver, while playing "Avatar" on a Blu-ray disc, nothing more than a stereo mode on a receiver, and not 7000, but a smaller version than the 7000. I am completely sold now to the Definitive. It was an movie theatre experience.

I will definitely get myself a complete 7.2 channel Definitive 7000SC system, with its already-installed 1,800 watts subwoofers on each of its front speaker and two pairs of BPVX, down the road as soon as the cash flows in.

Undoubtedly, for the home movie theatre experience at least, Definitive is an awesome system for its value-for-the-money, $9,400, if not the best.

Hawkeye

If I was contemplating spending between 9-12K for speakers, I'd expand my horizons to other manufactures before I made a decision.

I'm not saying the Def's are a bad choice. They may float your boat which is ok. But before I'd drop that kind of coin, I'd certainly listen to more than one brand of speaker. There are 100's of speaker makers out there and I think your selling yourself short by not listening to as many brands as possible before making a decision.

I was thisclose to buying some Dynaudio C1's. A block away the Martin Logan was on display. I'm glad I took a deep breath and listened to the ML.

Gordon

Face

If I had a budget of 10k, I would look elsewhere.