Getting started - advice on AVR

C_o_l_e

Hi. First of all, I’m a completely noob so I appreciate any input/suggestions you guys have. I’ll be graduating from grad school this fall and I plan on treating myself to a sound system after slaving away for the past 6 years.

I owned a budget Kenwood HTIB back in college and got rid of it when I started grad school due to space constraints (moved into a studio); I’ve been using Logitech Z5500s and while I love them, I would like to get something nicer when I move into a bigger apartment.

I have a ps3, a PC (with a substantial FLAC collection), and an HDTV that I would like to connect to the sound system, and I watch movies/listen to music about 50/50. After doing some reading on the forums and price check on Newegg, I plan to purchase the following and I have some general questions about the setup:

Polk Audio M60 or M70 fronts
Polk Audio CS2 center
Polk Audio TSi 200 surround
Polk Audio PSW10 or PSW505 sub???
AVR???

1) Anything above 5.1 is new to me. How do movies/games compare between 5.1 vs 6.1 vs. etc? I’ve been more than happy with 5.1. Can the newer 7.1 AVRs work in 5.1? Should I suck it up and get

2) I don’t need the bass to knock down walls so I’m leaning towards the smaller sub which is of course less power hungry. What are your recommendations for AVRs that would be able to drive this setup? How about with the bigger sub?

3) My final questions are about hooking everything up together since I’m used to generic setups but that can wait until I have purchased all the components this fall.

Thanks in advance,

Cole

Knucklehead

Welcome to CP Cole! Depending on your room size a 5.1 setup may suit you just fine. A lot of guys on the forum use Onkyo and Pioneer AVR's, Im partial to Pioneer myself. My advice is to get something you can grow your system with...ie..pre-outs, HDMI input/outputs etc..Im sure you will get a lot of advice as the day progresses.

David

edit....go for the PSW505.

ikolbyi

Cole, congratulations on earning your masters.

Regarding an AVR - I have a personal preference here so my response will be bias. I prefer the Denon AVR products. I'm on my 3rd and all 3 are outstanding products. I have used Onkyo and Yamaha, but always seem to come back to Denon. If you are on a budget, go no lower than the AVR-19xx. If you can afford it, the AVR-2310 is your best choice as an all around unit. I too have a similar configuration and it suits my family's needs well.

I have a 5.1 and 7.1 setup (on different receivers). Yes a current receiver can perform 5.1, keep in mind, almost all movies, especially DVD are filmed for 5.1 not 7.1. This means the receiver calculates how the 5.1 movie should sound in a 7.1 setup.

Regarding a sub, I own a PSW350 and DSW MicroPro 1000. The DSW is an order of magnitude better and the sound clearly shows. Sometimes the extra few hundred is really worth it and in this case, it was.

Hope this helps.

Knucklehead

Your right kolbtod...Denon is very popular and a good choice as well.

acmf74

Cole..

I have a the Adcom GFR-700 and love it.

It has all the inputs/outputs you would need to run a 5.1 and a 7.1 with another amp. Plus it is 4ohm stable!

Good luck on your search.

C_o_l_e

First of all thanks for all the prompt responses ! I don't know much about AVRs in general (since I've been using my Logitechs); do they have enough juice to power all the components I've listed? Since I want to connect my PS3 and PC, HDMI and optical connections will be desirable. My budget for the AVR is ~ 300-500. If that's not possible, then I'll need to scale down to M50-60s with the smaller sub. Thanks.

ikolbyi

C_o_l_e wrote: »

First of all thanks for all the prompt responses ! I don't know much about AVRs in general (since I've been using my Logitechs); do they have enough juice to power all the components I've listed? Since I want to connect my PS3 and PC, HDMI and optical connections will be desirable. My budget for the AVR is ~ 300-500. If that's not possible, then I'll need to scale down to M50-60s with the smaller sub. Thanks.

The answer is yes. This is the receiver for you then based on your budget:
http://www.usa.denon.com/ProductDetails/4858.asp

Denon AVR-1910

I own last year's model in a 7.1 setup and it is a very well built and capable product. I have more devices connected to it than you listed above and it is more than capable in serving them.

cnh

My advice is listen to some Pioneer, Onkyos and Harman Kardons and Marantz AVRs...decide what sound 'you' like.....

Pioneer Elite VSX-21, Onkyo 707 or 807, Haman K. 254 or 354, Marantz 5004

Shop around and see if you can find one of these on SALE...because most are just a bit above your price range. ALL have pre-outs, HDMI and HD-sound processing for blu-ray.

Happy hunting....oh and do get the PSW505 over the PSW10---huge difference there for HT.


cnh

wutadumsn23

I agree with the guys so far Cole, IMHO you can't go wrong with the Monitor series, esp. for the prices they can be had for these days. I have a full compliment of Monitor's (except for the newly added TSi 500's, I used to run Monitor 40's as surrounds) and I couldn'tbe happier. You may need to increse your budget for your AVR, but you will be happy you did in the long run. I can't stress enough the importance of getting an AVR that has pre outs, esp if you plan on doing 50% music listening. The Monitor 70's are great for music with an AVR, but are 10 times better with some real power going to them from an external amp, which you can't run unless the AVR has pre outs. Another model to look at in addition to the ones listed is the Onkyo TX-SR806, which is the one I have. It is a great unit and has everything you will need to future proof your rig. There is one for sale at accessoriesforless.com for $550 and although it is a refurb, it comes with a one year warranty and even has the option of adding an extended warranty for 3 or 5 years for $43.99 and $79.99 respectively. New they are still around $750, so it is another option for you to look into. Any reason why you chose to go with the TSi 200's for surrounds? They are a different line of speakers, and while timbre matching isn't as important with your surrounds as it is with your front three, they are about $140 more than the Monitor 40's, which are pretty much the same speaker and will be more of a match look wise with the rest of your Monitors than the TSi 200's would be. I also agree that the PSW505 would be a huge improvement over the PSW10, Newegg sells them for around $250 shipped. Good luck and let us know what you decide. Welcome to Club Polk.

-Jeff

http://www.accessories4less.com/index.php?page=item&id=ONKTXSR806B link to the 806

OKstate

I just recently got into HT. I purchased a Harman Kardon 254 7.1 from the ebay refurbished store based solely on reviews. Excellent price and excellent product, I would not hesitate to buy another. Monitors for me too, I cant afford these super high end speakers

ikolbyi

C-o-l-e, Bottom line: Onkyo, Harmon Kardon, Denon, Pinoeer Elite, and Marantz are your can't go wrong brands. However, yes even these manufactures make lower-end models that will prevent you from 'growing into' your receiver down the road.

I agree with wutadumsn23 in that don't skimp on a receiver, get something that has the capability to meet your needs today and tomorrow. Pay close attention to the receiver inputs/outputs and make sure the rear of the unit matches what you are looking for. I have noticed some models/brands that have dropped S-Video (for example). This may or may not be important to you, but it is important that you pay attention to those details.

Regarding power to the speakers, today's $500+ AVR in the brands outlined above will meet your needs with the speaker setup you are considering/have. Make sure you save some money to purchase a decent/quality speaker cable. You don't have to go nuts, just get something better than "Rat Shack" 18 or 16 gauge speaker wire (aka - lamp cord).

C_o_l_e

Thanks guys. I'll increase my budget for the AVR then since it seems silly to save a few hundred bucks and nerf all the speakers in the process. I'll dig up some more info on them online. Do "pre-outs" mean you can hook up an external amplifier to them or is it built in? Are amps necessary and are there any you would recommend?

@Jeff
I picked the TSi200 as surrounds on a whim since I wanted something smaller (space constraints). I'll check out the monitor bookshelf series.

Too bad I missed out on all those sales last month for the M70 on Newegg . Since I won't done for another few months, I'll get a nice AVR first and hopefully catch another sale for the speakers along the way. Thanks for all your comments and suggestions!

ikolbyi

C_o_l_e wrote: »

Thanks guys. I'll increase my budget for the AVR then since it seems silly to save a few hundred bucks and nerf all the speakers in the process. I'll dig up some more info on them online. Do "pre-outs" mean you can hook up an external amplifier to them or is it built in? Are amps necessary and are there any you would recommend?

@Jeff
I picked the TSi200 as surrounds on a whim since I wanted something smaller (space constraints). I'll check out the monitor bookshelf series.

Too bad I missed out on all those sales last month for the M70 on Newegg . Since I won't done for another few months, I'll get a nice AVR first and hopefully catch another sale for the speakers along the way. Thanks for all your comments and suggestions!

Yes, the pre-out is for a separate amplifier if you chose to go that road. However, if you invest in a Denon AVR-3310CI http://www.usa.denon.com/ProductDetails/4972.asp chances are you may not need it for when you grow your setup.

This receiver will make you drool during your listening and viewing experience. (personal opinion). If the price is way above your budget, the AVR 2310CI is almost as capable and also an exceptional unit for it's class. The other brands have competing units so again, I recommend you pay close attention to the inputs/outputs of each unit and choose one that best fits your needs.

The Denon accessories such as iPod hookup and internet radio features are really nice and work well.

wutadumsn23

C_o_l_e wrote: »

Too bad I missed out on all those sales last month for the M70 on Newegg . Since I won't done for another few months, I'll get a nice AVR first and hopefully catch another sale for the speakers along the way. Thanks for all your comments and suggestions!

They still have them on sale occasinally, but they are doing so less and less. Keep your eyes open in the Deals of the day thread, if they go on sale I, or someone else, will usually post a link with the promo code.

-Jeff

ikolbyi

Here you go, $200 off retail: http://www.amazon.com/Denon-AVR3310CI-7-1-Channel-Multi-Zone-Connectivity/dp/B002AKKFQ2/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1270570418&sr=8-1


Or here which is where I purchased my equipment:
http://www.electronics-expo.com/make-a-store/category/2250/Home-Theater-Audio/Receivers/1.html

C_o_l_e

Thanks for the info guys. I've narrowed it down to either:

Pionner VSX9040TXH

or

Denon AVR2310CI or 3310CI

I'll see if I can listen to them at a local retailer and then order the one I like online.

ikolbyi

C_o_l_e wrote: »

Thanks for the info guys. I've narrowed it down to either:

Pionner VSX9040TXH

or

Denon AVR2310CI or 3310CI

I'll see if I can listen to them at a local retailer and then order the one I like online.

C_o_l_e,, I got some bad news, apparently the current (new) models of Denon have issues with their video processing. Denon replaced their processes in this years models and based on current reviews, it appears Denon has some work cut out for them to resolve.

My suggestion is to go with the Pionner. Another option is to go with Denon's last year model AVR-1909 which you can purchase cheap: http://www.amazon.com/Denon-AVR-1909-7-1-Channel-Multizone-Receiver/dp/B001BKND5W/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1270584155&sr=1-1

I have a Wii, cable (HDMI), DVD upconvert (HDMI), and other devices connected to that model with flawless performance. This would be my recommendation based on the current postings. If you can find an AVR-2809 discounted, all the power to you.

C_o_l_e

Doh. I was wondering why both Denon models had mediocre reviews from Amazon. Maybe if it's on super sale from electronics-expo I'll pick it up. Thanks for pointing it out.

I'm leaning towards the Pioneer then. The VSX9040TXH and 9140 are available online and have good reviews. Our local Best Buy also has them so I can at least listen to them. However, I'm not able to find the elite models (VSX21TXH or 23) anywhere near where I live. I've heard good things about them as well but am a bit fuzzy on the fundamental differences between the non vs elite models.

Ultimately, I have an Xbox 360, a PS3, a PC, and an HDTV to connect to the AVR. The second HDMI out is nice but not essential.

digitalvideo

Only go with the Pioneer Elite SC lineup! :cool:

j allen

I could be mistaken, but I think that the VSX9040TXH and the elite VSX21TXH are the same unit, just with or without the elite badge.

cfrizz

Welcome to Club Polk.

Get the receiver that has all the bells & whistles that you want it to have. But make sure it does have preouts for future amplification.

Receivers really aren't capable of driving speakers to their full potential. So sometime in your future you will want to upgrade to hear what they can truly sound like.

So spend more money now and get it right the first time, rather than having to spend it twice to get yet a new receiver as well and an amp.

C_o_l_e

Thanks to Matt's (m28matrix) thread, I ordered a Pioneer Elite VSX-23TXH at a decent price. Newegg currently has Polk Audio M60s, 40s, and CS1 (all cherry) on sale. I'm thinking about picking up the 40s so I can at least make sure the receiver works when it gets here, and then hope for sales for the M70s and CS2 in the upcoming months.

Do you guys have recommendations on speaker wires? Newegg has a special on these:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882339173

Are they any good? Again, I'm a newbie at this so pardon me, how exactly does one connect those pins on the end to the wires and can I purchase more pins? I'm used to the generic red/black super thin wires that you just clip onto the back of speakers and have never used ones with pins before.

mikedup2003

:eek:

C_o_l_e wrote: »

Thanks to Matt's (m28matrix) thread, I ordered a Pioneer Elite VSX-23TXH at a decent price. Newegg currently has Polk Audio M60s, 40s, and CS1 (all cherry) on sale. I'm thinking about picking up the 40s so I can at least make sure the receiver works when it gets here, and then hope for sales for the M70s and CS2 in the upcoming months.

Do you guys have recommendations on speaker wires? Newegg has a special on these:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882339173

Are they any good? Again, I'm a newbie at this so pardon me, how exactly does one connect those pins on the end to the wires and can I purchase more pins? I'm used to the generic red/black super thin wires that you just clip onto the back of speakers and have never used ones with pins before.

Why bother with pins, just buy banana plugs from monoprice, i prefer the closed screw type.

BTW the "sale" for the m70's was 174.99 I believe, Thats wat i paid. I just looked yesterday and they were 199.99, Why wait months and months to save $50.00 if you were really that concerned about saving you should have bought the vsx-21 insted (saving $200) and given up the muti-zone feature(thats the only real diff). If I could do it over again i would have gotten the sc-25 just for the ice-amps and metal plug-ins, but don't get me wrong the vsx-21 is great. Im just the type of person who always has buyers remorse unless i get the top of the line. Guess the grass is always greener on the other side for people like me.

C_o_l_e

I'm not that familiar with banana plugs (what other types of plugs are common?)...are those not the same type of connection as the link I've posted? I see some how to videos online so I'll do a bit more research on these.

I agree saving $50-100 vs getting the speakers now seems trivial but I have several factors to consider. I'm in a studio right now and am moving in a few months so I would prefer not to go through setting everything up and rearranging everything at this time. However, on a grad student salary those $50 here and there come in handy . So if the price is right, I'd still get them but will have to ask a friend to store them for me.

I got the VSX23 for a fairly good price, which is why I jumped on it. For my purposes the 21 or the 9040 would have done the job but I could think of some uses for that second HDMI output. Again, I won't be able to set everything up but would like to at least get the M40s so I can test the receiver for the time being.

I will take a look at the wire/plugs you mentioned. Thanks.

mikedup2003

C_o_l_e wrote: »

I'm not that familiar with banana plugs (what other types of plugs are common?)...are those not the same type of connection as the link I've posted? I see some how to videos online so I'll do a bit more research on these.

I agree saving $50-100 vs getting the speakers now seems trivial but I have several factors to consider. I'm in a studio right now and am moving in a few months so I would prefer not to go through setting everything up and rearranging everything at this time. However, on a grad student salary those $50 here and there come in handy . So if the price is right, I'd still get them but will have to ask a friend to store them for me.

I got the VSX23 for a fairly good price, which is why I jumped on it. For my purposes the 21 or the 9040 would have done the job but I could think of some uses for that second HDMI output. Again, I won't be able to set everything up but would like to at least get the M40s so I can test the receiver for the time being.

I will take a look at the wire/plugs you mentioned. Thanks.

They also have a great price on speaker wire. I bought the 14g 100' roll. It sounds really good and saved me some $

And don't forget you need 10 pair of banana plugs for a 5.0 or 5.1 (subs use a RCA wire)system. This way you have plugs for each end of the speaker wires

C_o_l_e

Thanks for the info Mike. It's nice that they have instructions on installation as well so I'll order some asap. Do the open/screw type just dictate how the wires are connected? I'm just thinking about picking up these:

http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=104&cp_id=10401&cs_id=1040115&p_id=2801&seq=1&format=2

and then some 14g speaker wire. Thanks.

Cole

Hillbilly61

Welcome to the club, C_O_L_E!

I have these nanners and they work very well. The open/screw description indicates that the butt end of the plug unscrews from the rest of the plug. To assemble, you strip the speaker wire and unscrew the plug. Then thread the unscrewed part of the plug onto the bared cable and then screw the entire unit together again.

One thing noticed with 14g wire and these plugs is that this can form a loose connection if not enough of the wire end is bared. Experience shows that skinning off about 3/8" and folding the end 1/8th inch back onto the rest of the bared wire once the screw part is inserted will provide for a very solid connection once the 'nanner plug is reassembled.

ikolbyi

Hillbilly61 wrote: »

Welcome to the club, C_O_L_E!

I have these nanners and they work very well. The open/screw description indicates that the butt end of the plug unscrews from the rest of the plug. To assemble, you strip the speaker wire and unscrew the plug. Then thread the unscrewed part of the plug onto the bared cable and then screw the entire unit together again.

One thing noticed with 14g wire and these plugs is that this can form a loose connection if not enough of the wire end is bared. Experience shows that skinning off about 3/8" and folding the end 1/8th inch back onto the rest of the bared wire once the screw part is inserted will provide for a very solid connection once the 'nanner plug is reassembled.

The other option is not to use any type of connector/plug and to just connect the wire directly to the AVR and speakers.

PRO - no middle player for connectivity
CON - much harder to work with when connecting wire to unit/speaker.

I realize I'm going to have a lot of rotten fruit thrown at me for that suggestion, but that is the setup I used for simplicity reasons: once it's connected chances are I wasn't going to touch it again so I wanted to limit number of connections points as possible.

On the speaker wire itself, I used 14-guage in-wall/Plenum rated Carol brand from Home Depot.

cnh

C_o_l_e wrote: »

Thanks to Matt's (m28matrix) thread, I ordered a Pioneer Elite VSX-23TXH at a decent price. Newegg currently has Polk Audio M60s, 40s, and CS1 (all cherry) on sale. I'm thinking about picking up the 40s so I can at least make sure the receiver works when it gets here, and then hope for sales for the M70s and CS2 in the upcoming months.

Do you guys have recommendations on speaker wires? Newegg has a special on these:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882339173

Are they any good? Again, I'm a newbie at this so pardon me, how exactly does one connect those pins on the end to the wires and can I purchase more pins? I'm used to the generic red/black super thin wires that you just clip onto the back of speakers and have never used ones with pins before.

Congratulations. That's a perfect AVR for you and your set up with lots of room to grow...!

Enjoy!

cnh

wutadumsn23

Good choice, those Pineer Elites are some pretty good AVR's. Have heard nothing but good things about them, you will be set for awhile.

-Jeff

PerfectCreature

My uncle has a pioneer elite don't know which model but I know it can power his kenwoods quite well at about 500 watts a channel. Never overheats or anything we used to throw pretty crazy parties with that amp.
As for the subwoofer newegg has the 505 on sale for 230 shipped. It gives plenty of bass and some nice punch, does bottom out on certain frequencies and has a nasty foam surround. But for 230 I guess you can't complain for what it gives you.