Totem , yeah I got amazed once again.

Zitro

mantis wrote: »

Here is our website , www.Audiolab.com
we are in Fairless hills right outside of Phila

Wow, you guys carry a lot of stuff. Do you have in-store demo's for most of it or just a few select models?

jmwest1970

mantis wrote: »

Maybe one of these weekends I'm gonna set up shop and really test that. We have a bunch of other wires like Ixos , Liberty , Tributaries , etc but Cardos and Kimber is our top stuff in my opinion.

I'd really be interested in hearing your impressions. Look at my sig to see what I like.

mantis

Zitro wrote: »

Wow, you guys carry a lot of stuff. Do you have in-store demo's for most of it or just a few select models?

We got speakers all over the place. We have so many different brands , I believe we carry more lines then any other shop in the united states. Our owner is a crazy Audiophile who loves speakers like I do could even be he loves them more(I'm not buying that LOL)

pearsall001

Dan's not kidding about his speaker selection, top notch to say the least. I got my ears on the Rainmaker's & they are definetely a very nice sounding speaker. The other Totem models are worth a listen also. Vincent knows how to build a pair of speakers that perform well past their physical size.

Des Moines

mantis wrote: »

Audiophiles create their own language, I speak from my heart emotionally. I try to discribe how I feel when a speaker or in this case speakers move me .

That's what I like about your posts. I'm looking for some rear surrounds for HT. How would you compare the Def Tech PM 1000 and Def Tech Mythos to the Rainmakers to complete my rear surround 5.1 setup?

Amherst

At about half the cost of the rainmakers, a consideration should be made for the mites. They struck me as a really great surround speaker and sacrificed only a bit lower end and some (very little) sound stage to the rainmakers.
They are an extremely capable unit, and tough to beat in their price range.

LuSh

Mantis,

Over the years I've come to truly respect your opinion and usually enjoy your threads. This one is no different. However; I can't help not typing a response to your observation because no speaker in the world has frustrated me more then Totem. Firstly, Totem employees only one Dynaudio driver in the Model 1's, everything else is outsourced to HiVi (I believe that's the name). The comparisons stop there. The designer (Vince) has fundamental believes that contradict everything Dynaudio is about.

Firstly Totem believes in very little (or no) damping material inside the cabinet. Vince figures over the life span of the speaker this material will degrade, instead he purposely leaves it out and instead simply cross braces. Totem speakers are tuned by ear, the marketing goes every Totem is different and the right Totem finds you. Totem speakers act as an instrument themselves capable of reflecting sound and pronoucing certain frequencies, this is usually never experienced on first listen however once you grow with them this character is a major theme up and down the lineup. That lively sound is made not only partly through the drivers but also through cabinet themselves. On first listen you'll hear things you've never heard before. On second listen you'll lose information, on third listen you start to scratch your head and wonder what the hell is going on. At least I have with every pair. One I've owned for over a year and two other models I have heard on many many occasions over the years. Dynaudio's have phase issues like most conventional tweeter/woofers due grant it but nothing like a Totem speaker. Any complicated symbol arrangement and goodnight Irene.

I think the company as a whole is fantastic, their marketing is second to none, I understand the approach...small sexy speakers with high WAF factor. I cannot however recommend the speaker for sound quality alone. I would have gladly taken back my Polk Audio LSi's if I could fit them in the room at the time. I think part of my dismay was that I was honest with them. There was no mystery. In Canada Totem's were sold in various big box stores, and currently in regional box stores. I think part of the appeal is how Totem has been selective in some markets with regards to distribution, it's allowed the brand to add a hint of mystery.

So while I can appreciate the brand and the company anytime I see a thread I can't resist commenting because I lived with those Bast***s for well over a year and they drove me up the wall. I would consider in-walls in the future but that would be about it. Great company, not my cup of tea. But please I encourage everybody reading this to do their own listening. Just one mans observation.

mantis

LuSh wrote: »

Mantis,

Over the years I've come to truly respect your opinion and usually enjoy your threads. This one is no different. However; I can't help not typing a response to your observation because no speaker in the world has frustrated me more then Totem. Firstly, Totem employees only one Dynaudio driver in the Model 1's, everything else is outsourced to HiVi (I believe that's the name). The comparisons stop there. The designer (Vince) has fundamental believes that contradict everything Dynaudio is about.

Firstly Totem believes in very little (or no) damping material inside the cabinet. Vince figures over the life span of the speaker this material will degrade, instead he purposely leaves it out and instead simply cross braces. Totem speakers are tuned by ear, the marketing goes every Totem is different and the right Totem finds you. Totem speakers act as an instrument themselves capable of reflecting sound and pronoucing certain frequencies, this is usually never experienced on first listen however once you grow with them this character is a major theme up and down the lineup. That lively sound is made not only partly through the drivers but also through cabinet themselves. On first listen you'll hear things you've never heard before. On second listen you'll lose information, on third listen you start to scratch your head and wonder what the hell is going on. At least I have with every pair. One I've owned for over a year and two other models I have heard on many many occasions over the years. Dynaudio's have phase issues like most conventional tweeter/woofers due grant it but nothing like a Totem speaker. Any complicated symbol arrangement and goodnight Irene.

I think the company as a whole is fantastic, their marketing is second to none, I understand the approach...small sexy speakers with high WAF factor. I cannot however recommend the speaker for sound quality alone. I would have gladly taken back my Polk Audio LSi's if I could fit them in the room at the time. I think part of my dismay was that I was honest with them. There was no mystery. In Canada Totem's were sold in various big box stores, and currently in regional box stores. I think part of the appeal is how Totem has been selective in some markets with regards to distribution, it's allowed the brand to add a hint of mystery.

So while I can appreciate the brand and the company anytime I see a thread I can't resist commenting because I lived with those Bast***s for well over a year and they drove me up the wall. I would consider in-walls in the future but that would be about it. Great company, not my cup of tea. But please I encourage everybody reading this to do their own listening. Just one mans observation.

Lush,
Very interesting to say the least. What model or models did you own? I have been checking out Totem speakers for about 8 years now. My first experience was with the Arrows at a place called World Wide Stereo And Video. We walked in there and could not believe how damn good the Arrows where. I almost purchased them on the spot . I felt they where that good.
Years later and now my company owns them. We made that decision based off the performance of the Hawks. A customer traded them in and we all listened to them in amazement. Our store is packed with high quality speakers and the Totems stand up to all of them well. Personally I find Totem to have the best sound overall. I really like them and right now I'm considering down the road building a 2 channel and maybe even trying them for theater. I will do so after a few installs and see if they are worth going that route.
Company practice I didn't know any of that. But I gotta tell you whatever they are going , they gotta be doing something right.
Compared to Dynaudio I would love to do a side by side. I think Totem is worthy of a VS battle with Dynaudio. Dynaudio as you know is my very top favorite speaker company bare none. Totem is in the runnings.
I wish I still had my Audience 82's so I could put them up against the Hawks. I think it would be a good battle. My 82's where crazy detailed and had a pretty big sound stage but I don't remember them going wall to wall and ceiling to floor. I they did some of that but I don't think it''s as huge as the Totems do.
I respect your opinions of Totems and would like to hear more. As far as Lsi over Totem , for me there is no way. I owned Lsi and as I think they are great for the money and coming from polk , they don't hold up to Totem. After I compared the Lsi9's to the Rainmakers , Mites and even the Dreamcatchers , I find the Lsi's on a lower level then before. But everyone likes what they like and this is just my opinion.

cnh

An interesting discussion. After reading Dan's reviews I visited the Totem site and read an interview with Vince. Yes, a lot of the speakers are voiced by 'ear' but algorithms are also used. Yes there is no damping material as Totem feels the box is more like a classic guitar, cello or violin, etc. That it is 'part' of the speaker and its resonances should be used to enhance the drivers' sound, not eliminated from the equation with 'damping' materials. Also, as I understand it, the interior walls of the Totems are NOT bare MDF but lined with some 'substance' or veneer, so that it is NOT entirely accurate to say they are bare? And that whatever this is....it, supposedly, helps with the sound resonances and does not disintegrate with age like many damping materials?

Now whether I believe all this or not? I can't say because I've never heard a pair. I will when I visit Dan in the fall, I hope. I play a little guitar, not well, but OK. My father played classic guitar and used to go on and on about the woods that they used in guitar making (I grew up close to the Martin Guitar Factory)--rosewood, etc.

When he bought me my first clarinet--he insisted it be French made of granadilla wood. And, though I didn't continue with it...the instrument had a 'wonderful' tone regardless of how 'bad' one played it.

Then there was the story about an unknown Andres Segovia (classic guitarist) who when young and poor....walked into a guitar maker's shop in Spain and proceeded to test all the guitars and pick out the 'best'...Segovia was too embarrassed to say he had no money to pay for it. But the guitar maker...turned to him, and recognising his talent, he gave him the guitar for free, saying, "Pay me by making the guitar famous all over the world". And that he did.

There is no doubt in my mind that a GREAT ear can VOICE a speaker! The only question I now have is just what do those speakers sound like to 'me'?

cnh

LuSh

Zero...you always have to chime in, don't like what I type don't read it...it's an open forum Jesus...

Mantis: I owned the Totem Sttafs, and have listened to the Mani 2', Mites for many many many hours (close buddies house). Just one mans opinion. What I experienced over the course of days was that most of the speakers gave you a mid hall performance, which increased the sound-stage however some musical notes were muted and others glaring in your face. I'm becoming more and more sensitive to phase issues as well now and I believe (although have never tested) that there are a number of phase issues going on across the line. I truly believe most people won't hear what I'm talking about on the first, second or maybe even third listen. But over time it is slowly exposed. But please keep listening and enjoy the experience, its a fun hobby.

LuSh

Zero,

1. I'd like you to point out more 'mistakes' I've made. Yes, the Mani 2 does use a Dynaudio driver. I made an obvious error...

2. With regards to how the speakers are designed and built you've basically said that I was wrong, then proceeded to inform me of how each differ...which is exactly what I had originally typed. Dynaudio and Totem are completely different. Dynaudio voices speakers, what company in the world doesn't? The difference is that the Dynaudio's have a house sound that relies on engineering and if you purchase an entry level Dynaudio you can move up the line and hear and enhance what you've already heard in their entry level model. There is a a clear hill being climbed, like most speaker company's their are fundamental believes that are found from their entry level to their highest end. Each speaker isn't tuned by ear as opposed to Totem who makes one speaker that sounds radically different in each model.

3. Variation of the same theme? Thick enclosures vs thin, in house drivers vs third party, Linear vs Colored Presentation. That would seem like more then a variation to me, more like a radical departure. Forgive the poor analogy but if we were talking about amplifiers one might think tubes and transistors were basically a variation of the same theme. These are radical differences in design. At least in my opinion. I would think Paradigm and Dynaudio are a variation of the same theme. Dynaudio's and Totems are MDF boxes with drivers the comparisons stop there really.

4. I'm still curious about all these flaws being made on audiogon and here. News to me.

Lastly, Dynaudio's are OK but they have issues as well I really don't care to get into. I simply expressed my opinion having owned Totem in the past.

mantis

Lush,
I don't recall what you drove your Staff's with. We have them on the floor but they are brand new and don't have much time on them. We are breaking them in and probably by Wednesday or Thursday I will be able to sit down and really give them a good listen. I did however notice a pretty big difference when I switched gear. I have a Cambridge Audio Azur 650 Integrated and a Athem I forget the model and the Cambridge really sounded much better on all the Totems including the Paradigm Studio 10's Version 5.

Guys Totem and Dynaudio are my 2 very favorite speaker companies of all time. The Dynaudio C4's are my dream speaker for music. Never ever in my life have I heard a more wonderful sounding speaker anywhere near their price class. At 16k I'll go on record to say they are the best musical speakers in the world bar NONE. Nothing I have heard can compare . Nothing. The Best is for me not for anyone else to agree or not.
The Totems are exciting and are really setting a 2 channel fire under me. I can't stop thinking about them. I love my Def Tech system but it doesn't sound like that for music. Maybe I'm just to much of a speaker lover and should design a 2 channel room where I can swap out speakers at will and listen. Maybe this is my goal.

On a side not a gotta say with Dynaudio you get more and more as you go up the line and retain the same sonic signature. Listen to the Audience or Excite which is todays line and go all the way to the Masters. You will hear it. You also can start at the Masters and go all the way down to the 42's. It doesn't change , you get more or less depending on where you are.
Now the Focus line I found slighty off the older Contour line. I really thought the 1.8MKII's where a damn close to perfect speaker . Those little guys killed it. I'll never forget the time I have spent with them Installing and spending hours on end in our demo rooms. They say Audio memory is short lived but I can still remember how they sounded then , I can hear it in my head ( ok don't make that weird LOL)
The Arrows well come on , just look at them then listen to them and tell me whats up. We don't have them on our showroom floor and I gotta get a pair there. I know I'll fall in love all over again. Have not fallen out.

My Passion and soul goes to Dynaudio and Totem.

Nicknice

I just saw a pair of Ones on craigslist for $750. I'm not sure what year they are, or if there is anything to lookout for with that model. Any in site? Should I pull the trigger?

dkg999

My experience is that when a Totem speaker is placed and driven well, they are very, very good. But I've found them to be really finicky, which isn't good with the system I would put them in. I spent about an hour on Saturday comparing the Rainmakers and my Paradigm Studio Ref 20's. It was real easy to move the Rainmakers or change source gear and the Rainmakers would just lose focus and coherency. Not so much with the Paradigm's. But oh baby, when the Totem's are good, they are just so damned good!

Nicknice

I'm not sure how they will sound with my gear. I'm using a Parasound Halo A51 amp, and a Denon 3808ci as a pre. Right now I'm running a pair of lsi 15's with modded crossovers, but I would like to try something different. I haven't heard the Ones yet, how do they compare to the 15's? Are they worth the upgrade?

cnh

This discussion continues to provide some interesting information. But I must say "phasing"--I bet a lot of people can 'hear' phasing errors RIGHT! Or maybe someone has superhuman hearing abilities. I wouldn't know--at my age I'm losing my high end..don't hear like a 20 year old anymore.

I guess what I'm saying and excuse me but I have to call BS on someone who claims to be able to hear Noticeable phasing issues on mid to higher end speakers! Dream on...perhaps an Orchestral Conductor could hear something like that...but remember 'he' can pick out individual instruments in an orchestra of over 100 instruments? HOW MANY OF US...CAN DO THAT! Not I. And, probably not you (LuSh)?

Let me add so as not to be too abrasive that I do have a musical ear and can play most instruments--even those I've never touched by ear?

cnh

Face

You don't need superhuman hearing to hear phase issues, you just need to know what to listen for.

virtualdean

Zero wrote: »

Taking high quality drivers, stuffing them into a tuned MDF box, and tying things together with a crossover is hardly a display of superior engineering prowess. Yet, this is exactly what Dynaudio has always done. While I appreciate the quality of their product and admire their “in house” approach, I don’t feel that the company employs any more or less engineering than other manufacturers out there – to include Totem. Just because their products have a “house sound” and is sold in specific tiers where you get more of the same thing as you step up their lines ($$ Ka-Ching $$) does not, in my opinion, make them any more competent. In fact, that has nothing to do with engineering at all.

The bottom line is that you can use soft domes, metal domes, ribbons, paper woofers, 2nd order, 1st order, 3rd order crossovers, copper wire, silver wire, silver coated copper wire, oil filled capacitors, and so on and so on, and while you may attain different results using any variety of these parts, at the end of the day, if you are putting them inside a ho-hum cabinet and using the same “standard loudspeaker recipe” to put all of these parts together, you aren’t really dealing with anything that is *truly* different or unique, hence why I said that this is all a variation of the same theme. Dynaudio, meet B&W, meet Dali, meet Paradigm, and so on, and so forth.

Totem isn’t terribly different when it comes to the using basic fundamentals in their designs. Their only departure is that, like Harbeth, they spend a lot of time designing the product by ear, versus spending most of that time behind a computer screen. They, also like Harbeth, feel that MDF and most other like materials suck at the job of “Reducing” or “eliminating” resonance, and instead feel that the better approach is to take advantage of the resonance and to “control” its dissipation. I also like how Totem has a very unique product line, one that doesn’t fall under the normal tier-structure. Does that make them different from Dynaudio? Yeah. I also admit that some people may find these differences to be ‘radical’, as you put it. To me, I feel that when you get down to the marrow of it all and set aside these differences, it’s still nada more than a bunch of stuff packed into a box.

Well said...do they stir the mdf box or shake it?

TouchOfEvil

I still want to try some Totems eventually.

mantis

Honestly I could care less who made them , who's drivers they are currently using , who did what where and why etc.

When I sit down and listen to any Totem model , they give me an experience like no other. I'm thrilled in what I hear , how I feel and how they connect me to my music. I think the entire Totem line is fully worth the full retail price. I will own Totem something down the road. They earned that and then some.

eddylight

Great read! I really enjoyed the pics especially; that room looks like a little slice of heaven with those plush comfy chairs (are those cupholders??) and all that gear. Must be rough!

mystik610

There's a home theater specialty shop close to my work that I stop into during my lunch break every once in a while...I've had a chance to audition Paradigm Signatures, Vienna Bach Grands, B & K's (forget which ones), and some really high end Martin Logans. It really is mind blowing what's available out there if you've got the money.....makes me want to quit my comfortable little job for something that pays a whole lot more lol.

I've got to stop in and give these Totems a listen one day.

Part of me makes me wish I never walked into that store...makes me want a whole lot more than my RTi8's...or any Polk speaker for that matter. But like others mentioned, auditioning equipment is part of the hobby.

cnh

A question for Dan, which will probably be better answered when I visit you in the fall..but here goes. A lot of people, users, reviewers, etc., claim that Totems are far more temperamental with various setups than Dynaudio equivalents and that the Dynaudios can pretty much do most of what the Totems do in any case..even in their lower models like the DM series. In your opinion are there some amps, integrateds, etc. that make the Totems sound less than 'stellar' or even not so good--as has been said by any number of others online.

I guess I'll be hearing for myself soon. But there are just too many people out there who are saying the Dynaudios are more compatible and forgiving than the Totems and if that is true...that is a bit of a deal breaker for me....because I don't have funds to mess around with what the Totems may or may not 'need' to make them sound 'good'. On the other hand if the Dynaudios sound decent with most amps then that is CERTAINLY a SELLING point! I don't mind tweaking some, but money is an object and I have a wife....as an example....Ricardo in his showcase seems to be swapping things often enough to make 'my' head spin and my wife divorce me? I assume he's married...?? That's not going to FLY in my house! Even if I'm just buying and selling and not losing much in the process my wife would think I was mad! I don't know about the rest of you but 'excessive' audio spending is not a TOP priority in the cnh household economy! Even though 'he' might like that to be the case. I also don't like to 'tweak' too much, I prefer to get something and stick with it for a while and listen. Try to keep that upgrade bug in check because it can be an addiction like 'gambling' or 'drugs' or 'alcohol'. Look around this site.

And although 'synergy' is important. Some products have more 'synergy' with a more expansive field of supporting equipment than others. And some require a quest for the Holy Grail...personally....I am not on a Crusade. And looking for the first kind of product!

cnh

cnh

Actually, Zero, that helped quite a bit and it makes perfect sense in terms of what I've read...been doing a lot of that since Dan started this thread. Now I'll just have to wait to get back to the U.S. and hear a few things. The only thing I've heard that I kind of like in China...Hong Kong when I was there. Were some higher model Dalis which are also, as you know, Danish made speakers. Lively, quick, pretty good imaging....sounded good on a couple SS amps...they're in the running!

Thanks,

cnh

mantis

chn,
Zero pretty much nailed it. I'll add a few comments of my own.

Totem speakers sound is much like Dynaudio, it's why I favor them but one thing do better is off axis listening. I never in my life heard any speaker have that kind of ability. Whats funny is every model does this. It's kinda shocking when you sit there and demo all their models back to back and get the same results. Never once did I hear any speaker company do that.
I wouldn't go as far as saying they are a better sounding speaker then Dynaudio dollar for dollar. Dynaudio has as good and in most cases a better sonic signature. It's close but Dynaudio isn't as "picky".
When you come down , I'll take you on the "Totem Tour". It's fun but be prepared to get blown away and question your current system. I'll even do it with a Cambridge audio Integrated amp with a Cambridge Cd player.

haimoc

mantis wrote: »

Honestly I could care less who made them , who's drivers they are currently using , who did what where and why etc.

When I sit down and listen to any Totem model , they give me an experience like no other. I'm thrilled in what I hear , how I feel and how they connect me to my music. I think the entire Totem line is fully worth the full retail price. I will own Totem something down the road. They earned that and then some.

Well saying, Mantis.

jmwest1970

Zero wrote: »

For example:

The Forest can sound excellent when matched with high power solid state gear. Pair them with something from Blue Circle, Krell, or Sim Audio, and you are all but guaranteed to get good sound. However, the second you throw medium powered, low damping factor gear like Rega, Creek, or Exposure their way, the sound suddenly becomes mediocre at best. On the flip side, the less expensive Hawk sounds great with Rega, and also tends to sound a lot better on tube equipment than the Forest.

Your post was spot on. My experience isn't with the floor standers, but bookshelves. I find that with the Rainmakers and Dreamcatchers huge power and high damping factors aren't as important. I have noticed that quite a few people try to power these models with midfi receivers and I don't like the sound at all. However, a decent pre/amp or integrated, like the Cambridge Audio 640A that I own, will make them sing. I've heard them on Carver and Adcom solid state equipment and I didn't hear any improvement in the sound. The only thing that I found that makes enough difference to justify the cost is a Dodd Audio Battery Pre and Jolida tube amp.

LuSh

My experience with Totem and Dynaudio couldn't be more different. One mans opinion. Last thing...cnh go to hell...it's one thing to seek advice but it's another to call out somebody who's been in the hobby for years and unlike you has obviously spent more time listening. Don't like what I type don't read it, in fact I recommend not typing at all and listening more. One day you will hear the ever evasive phase issues common among most transducers.

cnh

It's quite possible you are right LuSh. I don't doubt your 'experience' or your knowledge. I was just wondering aloud about what I can or cannot hear. And if I went too far you have my apologies. In all probability I will never have your knowledge of the field. But that's why I'm here. On the other hand, audio is not 'my' area, but there are MANY things I do know that others will never know either and I do not take myself too seriously even though I am an expert in 'my' field as well. Shouldn't I merely offer what I know to those who do not and be magnanimous? That's what I usually do in my life...and I've been on earth a pretty long time.

Sorry you took that so personally. I guess it did sound that way--should have just left your name out of that post--my MISTAKE. I won't be making that mistake again!

To everyone else...many thanks for your help. This is one of the things that Club Polk does best!

cnh

mantis

Phase you can hear it most of the time. After you have listened to so many different room responses , different speaker setups etc , phasing becomes quite easy to point out. When a speaker is "out of phase" you notice something is "wrong". Just wire one of your speakers backwards.