Teen Suicide Leads to Indictment of 9 Students
Comments
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The girl recently move across the globe turning her whole world upside down only to get bullied by 10 moronic kids to the point she thought suicide was her only escape, yeah must be her fault.
There is "playground bullying" and then there is just downright mean, nasty, unrelenting harassment and if you never gone through the latter you don't know what that kind of torment does to your head.
Girls are the worst bullies too IMO. -
ryanjoachim wrote:I have NO problem with a law to outlaw bullying.
The problem is to define bullying...which is an act that can be perceived to mean ALMOST ANYTHING depending on one's point of view.
It would fall under the same category as the Supreme Court trying to define obscenity when Justice Potter Stewart said "I shall not today attempt further to define the kinds of material I understand to be embraced...but I know it when I see it.". They are still trying to define obscene today...over 50 years later. A "bullying" law would be much the same IMO."Just because youre offended doesnt mean youre right." - Ricky Gervais
"For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible." - Stuart Chase
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Kinda similar to how they slap the "sex offender" label on people, where serial rapists get thrown in the same category as someone who takes a drunk piss in a public alley or an 18-year old senior who has sex with his 16-year old junior girlfriend in high school.If you will it, dude, it is no dream.
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I think the sad part of the entire thing (based on the article) is that the bullying happened on a regular basis and staff members of the school were well aware of it but turned a blind eye. Kids will be kids. . . and kids are mean. But, the staff members knowing about what was happening makes them just as guilty, if not more.
But here is the problem. This country has gotten so sensitive to every little thing that the staff's hands were probably tied by the system. It's better for them to turn a blind eye than it is to get involved and face a possible lawsuit. A friend of mine is an elementary school teacher. She was reprimanded for giving one of her 3rd grade students a hug when the little girl was crying because her two best friends were teasing
her.
Today, you would never find a teacher that would drive a student home (like what happened with Cathy). It's too much of a liability. But, what do we do? We make more laws that tie everyone's hands more to the point that no one does anything. Maybe, instead of creating more laws, we should turn back the clock and give teachers/administrators more authority. Bring back paddling! -
The girl recently move across the globe turning her whole world upside down only to get bullied by 10 moronic kids to the point she thought suicide was her only escape, yeah must be her fault.
There is "playground bullying" and then there is just downright mean, nasty, unrelenting harassment and if you never gone through the latter you don't know what that kind of torment does to your head.
Girls are the worst bullies too IMO.
You are the second person to make a statement like that. I've not read anywhere in this thread that where anyone says, she the victim, was at fault.
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The problem is to define bullying...which is an act that can be perceived to mean ALMOST ANYTHING depending on one's point of view.
It would fall under the same category as the Supreme Court trying to define obscenity when Justice Potter Stewart said "I shall not today attempt further to define the kinds of material I understand to be embraced...but I know it when I see it.". They are still trying to define obscene today...over 50 years later. A "bullying" law would be much the same IMO.
My point exactly! -
Vette C6.r wrote: »Too many questions in this case that are not answered in the article.
Where did the rape charges come from? The article glances over that charge and focuses on the harrasment aspect. To me the rape charge is the only charge that has any merit and I believe the other charges will be dropped.
BTW does Mass. release the names of juvies ?? MD would never name them.
A tragedy none the less, regardless of any criminal charges.
It's statutory rape... entirely different from what i think a few of you are thinking.
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The more laws we make, the less action society will take to right the wrongs done by our peers and allow enforcement to interfere........
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bobman1235 wrote: »Kinda similar to how they slap the "sex offender" label on people, where serial rapists get thrown in the same category as someone who takes a drunk piss in a public alley or an 18-year old senior who has sex with his 16-year old junior girlfriend in high school.
There are different levels of sex offenders.
And for the person who is labeled a sex offender after being caught peeing in an alley, he should have paid for a better lawyer."He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche -
Thank you Jstas!
I was bullied in school all through my grade school years in public school, The teacher would drive me home on her way home to make sure that I got there.
What I went through is the reason why I HATE children & never wanted any of my own.
Have any of you listened to yourselves? Parents should send their children to classes to learn how to be violent to prevent violence being done to them???? Yah ok.
It's easy for you all to talk if you haven't been bullied or were bullys yourselves. For those of us that went through it & survived it it is totally different.
Unfortunately this girl didn't survive. And because she didn't she's a head case? I suppose she asked to be raped as well! Talk about blaming the victim!
If parents did thier jobs properly, this wouldn't happen. But we all know that there are tons of people out there who should never been allowed to have children.
Cathy, that's deep stuff :eek::eek:
What you said really, really hits home.
My parents moved and I was in a new middle school. I went from being a reasonably popular kid to being a total outcast over night. No one was open to a new kid.
On top of that there was this kid that just liked to torment the hell out of me with physical violence. Always wanting to fight, conflict all this crap. Usually walked 4 miles home after school to avoid this guy rather than ride the bus and confront this idiot.
Then in high school there was a different kid who liked to do the same thing. Constant torture, always wanting to fight - now high school walking 5 miles home to avoid this idiot - doh' !!
And ya know what, I never wanted kids, I don't like kids, I don't like being around my friend's kids and I always thought there was something wrong with ME.
I was just so happy to finally become an adult and not have to deal with stupid kids. To finally be protected by the law and be safe (as an adult) from the little idiots is a good feeling.
(I do like my cats)
:p
Chris -
I can relate Chris. All that's important is that we both survived & have gone on with our lives. There is absolutely NOTHING wrong with either of us or the way we now feel towards children.
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I was the new kid in every school I attended. From K-12 I attended 9 different schools. Bullying was a fact of life for me on a daily basis until I got wise and started cracking a few skulls. That said, the only people here that should be held to account are the "well trained" educators that witnessed this bs and didn't put a stop to it, and the parents of the bullies for not raising their children to have respect for others.The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD
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nooshinjohn wrote: »That said, the only people here that should be held to account are the "well trained" educators that witnessed this bs and didn't put a stop to it, and the parents of the bullies for not raising their children to have respect for others.
I cant agree with that statement at least completley. I am not 100% certain what actually occured here as far as the criminal charges go and who was responsible for what part of this unfortunate event because the storyline was a little vauge with actual charges and what the events were that led up to this girls suicide. It said They included statutory rape, violation of civil rights, criminal harassment and disturbance of a school assembly and charged with crimes including assault with a dangerous weapon which means there were other charges also but whatever they were isnt disclosed in this article but I do believe that even as a child you should be held responsible for your actions especially if they fall into the area of criminal behavior.
If these little heathens had been hed accountable at an earlier age whatever happened may not have ever took place because they would know there are consquences for their actions.
By saying that the only people here that should be held accountable are adults is in my oppinion a free ticket for kids to behave however they like. And there are kids that are true sociopathic killers out there and no matter what kind of upbringing they had isnt going to change their behavior. If for example someday you have kids and one of them kills someone do you want to be held responsible for his/her actions?
It says here that the Massachusetts Legislature has approved an anti-bullying bill, the Boston Herald reported, that mandates that school principals report bullies to police in cases where criminal charges "might be applicable"
I personally dont see anything wrong with that other then you may see the pendulum swing far the other way now and and principals may start reporting bullying that isnt actually criminal behavior, but in cases where criminal behavior has taken place that should be reported anyhow as a matter of course, not sure why they felt that they needed to enact a new law for this.
As far as her having some form of mental illness simply because she committed suicide I think is really way off base, as a teenager emotions run higher than at any other time of life little things seem like huge calamities.
Now as to what the penaltys should be for criminal cases regarding children versus adults I dont know. but if you do something that is wrong you should be held accountable in some fashion.
REGARDS SNOWWell, I just pulled off the impossible by doing a double-blind comparison all by myself, purely by virtue of the fact that I completely and stupidly forgot what I did last. I guess that getting old does have its advantages after all
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I can relate Chris. All that's important is that we both survived & have gone on with our lives. There is absolutely NOTHING wrong with either of us or the way we now feel towards children.
I'll take a pet over some monster kid anytime!
Sorry but I think you are both wrong. "SURVIVED!?!" I bet there are very few of us who didn't have it tough dealing with peers in school. It's just a fact of life. You can't keep an eye on kids all the time especially the ones walking four or more blocks from school and having kids laying in wait to physically bully or verbally abuse one.
Kids are kids and need to be dealt with as KIDS. I have some real horror stories to tell of my school years including getting stabbed and shot and this in a middle income neighborhood.
Kids are kids are kids are kids. Some are good, some are great and some are just downright bad but to hate kids because of some bad eggs for the rest of your life doesn't show that either one of you two have moved on with your lives.
Bullying sucks, teasing sucks, having to fit in sucks, the big difference I see between being a kid where you can run or punch your way out of situations compared to all the emotional **** that goes on in the corporate world where brains instead of brawn are needed to survive the brownnosers, toe steppers, back stabbers, idea stealers, ambitious saboteurs, etc. Adults are harder to deal with than kids. You punch or run your way through school, you watch your back constantly with adults. This is not always the case but I don't see it as a mentally scarring situation. It is what it is depending on where you grew up and how you delt with it.
SNOW I didn't say anything about mental illness per se. I said some underlying mental issues which would certainly fall under the umbrella of "higher emotional times." Kids need to talk about their problems just as we adults do to find a solution and to get an outlet for our emotions and to also see that we as individuals are NOT the only ones going through any set of circumstances. -
hearingimpared wrote: »Sorry but I think you are both wrong. "SURVIVED!?!" I bet there are very few of us who didn't have it tough dealing with peers in school. It's just a fact of life. You can't keep an eye on kids all the time especially the ones walking four or more blocks from school and having kids laying in wait to physically bully or verbally abuse one.
Kids are kids and need to be dealt with as KIDS. I have some real horror stories to tell of my school years including getting stabbed and shot and this in a middle income neighborhood.
Kids are kids are kids are kids. Some are good, some are great and some are just downright bad but to hate kids because of some bad eggs for the rest of your life doesn't show that either one of you two have moved on with your lives. I think the proverb, "hate the sin, love the sinner," applies here. Not hate all kids for what a few did.
Bullying sucks, teasing sucks, having to fit in sucks, the big difference I see between being a kid where you can run or punch your way out of situations compared to all the emotional **** that goes on in the corporate world where brains instead of brawn are needed to survive the brownnosers, toe steppers, back stabbers, idea stealers, ambitious saboteurs, etc. Adults are harder to deal with than kids. You punch or run your way through school, you watch your back constantly with adults. This is not always the case but I don't see it as a mentally scarring situation. It is what it is depending on where you grew up and how you delt with it.
SNOW I didn't say anything about mental illness per se. I said some underlying mental issues which would certainly fall under the umbrella of "higher emotional times." Kids need to talk about their problems just as we adults do to find a solution and to get an outlet for our emotions and to also see that we as individuals are NOT the only ones going through any set of circumstances.
Edited after the 20 minutes expiration. -
Oh please Joe, What I feel toward kids is no different from what some people feel towards animals.
Some people don't like dogs & cats so they don't have any pets. My brother got bit by a dog as a kid & never liked them from then on. He stayed as far away from dogs as he could get.
I got bullied all through grade school by other kids. I decided as a kid that I don't like them & I don't want any myself. That is my right & my choice.
It is NOT mandatory that everyone must like or have children.
I most certainly have moved on with my life. I have lived a nice peaceful life that hasn't involved all the drama & expense, worry, aggravation for the rest of my life that comes along with having children.
You might not like my choice, but then you don't have to. It's not YOUR life, it's MINE.Marantz AV-7705 PrePro, Classé 5 channel 200wpc Amp, Oppo 103 BluRay, Rotel RCD-1072 CDP, Sony XBR-49X800E TV, Polk S60 Main Speakers, Polk ES30 Center Channel, Polk S15 Surround Speakers SVS SB12-NSD x2 -
Seriously, if she's like this withOUT kids, can you imagine her with?If you will it, dude, it is no dream.
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Like what Bob? Are you implying that I would be abusive towards children? No I would not be. But I also know that I wouldn't hesitate to discipline my child when doing something wrong. I wouldn't allow myself to be their "friend" That is not my job.
I knew very early that I didn't not have the temperment or patience that is needed to raise children.
We all see & read the results in the news about people who should NOT have had children.
I can tell you this. If I did have children, I would be one of those parents who get complimented on having a well behaved child. I would NOT be one of the ones getting called to come get them from school because they attacked some other kid or were misbehaving in class.
My parents NEVER got these kinds of calls & always got compliments on how well behaved we were. Why? because we had already been taught that to behave badly outside was to suffer a spanking when we got home. There were consequences for our actions, and it didn't take long to learn that those consequences were to be avoided at all costs.
We turned out to be productive, useful members of society. I see useless ones hanging out on the street all the time.Marantz AV-7705 PrePro, Classé 5 channel 200wpc Amp, Oppo 103 BluRay, Rotel RCD-1072 CDP, Sony XBR-49X800E TV, Polk S60 Main Speakers, Polk ES30 Center Channel, Polk S15 Surround Speakers SVS SB12-NSD x2 -
Hate to say it,but Cathy just spanked you boys. LOL !!
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Hate to say it,but Cathy just spanked you boys. LOL !!
Way to go sister.
:eek:it's got me all excited!:D -
Oh please Joe, What I feel toward kids is no different from what some people feel towards animals.
Some people don't like dogs & cats so they don't have any pets. My brother got bit by a dog as a kid & never liked them from then on. He stayed as far away from dogs as he could get.
I got bullied all through grade school by other kids. I decided as a kid that I don't like them & I don't want any myself. That is my right & my choice.
It is NOT mandatory that everyone must like or have children.
I most certainly have moved on with my life. I have lived a nice peaceful life that hasn't involved all the drama & expense, worry, aggravation for the rest of my life that comes along with having children.
You might not like my choice, but then you don't have to. It's not YOUR life, it's MINE.
I have a hard time wrapping my head around someone saying they "hate," and "don't like kids," both things you've said in this thread. Now you've just compared them to household pets like dogs and cats. Really!? I mean, from the standpoint of raising them -- rude, insufferable kids are generally the result of poor parenting much like misbehaving pets are the result of a lack of training and follow through. Kids are still human beings and comparing them to household pets is such a strange view on life.
Is having children mandatory? Of course not. It's not for everyone and there are some people who have kids who were never fit to be parents in the first place. A few of those are probably the reason we're discussing this story. Oh well, that's what happens when you live in a society.
I'm truly sorry your experiences growing up have led you to believe kids are essentially nothing more than a burden.
It doesn't mean your views of kids displayed here are correct because they just aren't, but your choice not to have them isn't something anyone can argue with. -
Kids/children are little people. They are not possessions or burdens IMO. I can truthfully say that they can be the greatest source of joy and heartache all bundled up in one package. As someone who "did not want kids"...my daughters have been the greatest thing that occured in my life. I think my wife would agree. I would not trade them for ANYTHING...PERIOD. It has not been easy...and they have been GOOD girls that have not really caused any problems. I can imagine how hard it may be for parents with kids that were more of a challenge (not unlike myself :eek:).
Children are a great blessing...but are an equally great responsibility.
I several friends that do not have children either by choice or fate. I think they are satisfied with their life...but having children, and all that entails both good and bad seems to enrich those who experience it."Just because youre offended doesnt mean youre right." - Ricky Gervais
"For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible." - Stuart Chase
"Consistency requires you to be as ignorant today as you were a year ago." - Bernard Berenson -
Like what Bob? Are you implying that I would be abusive towards children?
No, I was mostly jokingly implying you rant and rave like a crazy person already, I can't imagine the added stress of a child thrown onto you. You'd have a nervous breakdown. It was mostly meant to be funny, but you seemingly have no sense of humor so I should have known better.
Where you got the idea that I said you'd be abusive, I have no effing clue. It's like you search out the most offensive and extreme interpretation.If you will it, dude, it is no dream. -
My point is that I was bullied a lot from grade school through high school and have no ilk towards kids. I can see you not wanting to have kids, that is your choice but again, to hate kids because of bad experiences in grade school just doesn't seem like you've gone past it. I can see you having some ilk towards teenagers, who doesn't LOL! but I don't get your hatred of kids Cath.
As far as your analogy of your brother being bit by a dog and an has since had a aversion that is understandable but, I used to work for a produce huckster when I was a kid for quite a few years. It was a daily occurance to carry bags into people's homes and get bit by dogs. My fear of them had gotten so bad that when walking down the street if I heard the tinkling of a dogs collar tags I would jump on top of a car before seeing the pooch. I eventually overcame that fear and now have the ability to walk up to the most aggresive appearing dog and talk to it and pet it.
I don't think comparing the two is same.
My two boys have been a source of great joy in my life. I love them so much and have grown so much as an adult as a result. I beam with pride when my older son is on the phone or in my presence. He's a great adult now and is very successful with a new wife and is making a settlement on a 5 bedroom 3 bathroom home in West Chester PA. At 26 being able to afford a home in that area speaks volumes. I'd like to think I had lots to do with his personality and success. My younger boy, I am molding him into a a young man with character and respect. He just turned 13 and I am waiting for the terrible teens to kick in but I look forward to helping him through it. He's already exhibited his good character by the friends he has chosen. It has been very rewarding and the good far outweighs the bad. I think the biggest pleasure is aiding them in not making the mistakes or suffering the consequences of bad decisions that I had made throughout my life.
Again, not judging you Cathy but there does seem to be something off kilter with hating kids because of a few bad eggs in your youth.
I think the kids in the article posted by the OP is a result of bad parenting and what you said about being a parent and not a friend. I am a friend to my boys but I'm their father first and foremost and don't kowtow to them. If they are wrong or do something really stupid they catch hell. -
It seems to me that there is some misunderstandings in this thread for example zero tolerance towards bullying has been mentioned more than once, perhaps I missed it but I didnt see anything that mentions that in this new law that requires princpals to report cases to the police that may involve criminal acts. It seems that reporting would be on a case by case basis.
Also the statutory rape charges seem to be with 2 boys that were both minors 17 years old versus 18 so unless there is some law that says sex with with a person as a minor that is 2 years older is a crime then there is more to this story than is revealed. Perhaps there is a law on the books that prohibits sex between children more then 1 year apart in Mass?
I think it is sad but normal behavior for children to not report bullying or depression issues to adults and I certainly can see why as a child you feel that adults specifically parents in a lot of cases cant relate to you and reporting bullying by other kids can and most likley would lead to further abuse from said kids, that it happened in front of school staff and it went unpunished is certainly wrong.
REGARDS SNOWWell, I just pulled off the impossible by doing a double-blind comparison all by myself, purely by virtue of the fact that I completely and stupidly forgot what I did last. I guess that getting old does have its advantages after all -
It seems to me that there is some misunderstandings in this thread for example zero tolerance towards bullying has been mentioned more than once, perhaps I missed it but I didnt see anything that mentions that in this new law that requires princpals to report cases to the police that may involve criminal acts. It seems that reporting would be on a case by case basis.
Also the statutory rape charges seem to be with 2 boys that were both minors 17 years old versus 18 so unless there is some law that says sex with with a person as a minor that is 2 years older is a crime then there is more to this story than is revealed. Perhaps there is a law on the books that prohibits sex between children more then 1 year apart in Mass?
I think it is sad but normal behavior for children to not report bullying or depression issues to adults and I certainly can see why as a child you feel that adults specifically parents in a lot of cases cant relate to you and reporting bullying by other kids can and most likley would lead to further abuse from said kids, that it happened in front of school staff and it went unpunished is certainly wrong.
REGARDS SNOW
That is precisely why I had my two boys feel comfortable talking to me about any subject no matter how bad or trivial. I didn't have that when I was a kid. I held in all the depression and days events and it made me nuts but I think that was the MO of the period to not talk about things which has cause more neurosis in my generation than anything else. -
bobman1235 wrote: »No, I was mostly jokingly implying you rant and rave like a crazy person already, I can't imagine the added stress of a child thrown onto you. You'd have a nervous breakdown. It was mostly meant to be funny, but you seemingly have no sense of humor so I should have known better.
Where you got the idea that I said you'd be abusive, I have no effing clue. It's like you search out the most offensive and extreme interpretation.
This is the problem with the internet. I can't READ that you were joking Bob. I can't HEAR the sound of your words telling me it was a joke. I can't SEE your face smiling that it was a joke. If you had included one of
these, I would have gotten a hint that you weren't serious (That's why they are there).
I have a great sense of humor, but this subject pushes my buttons & I find nothing amusing about it.
Tony & Joe, thanks for the back to back laughs.Marantz AV-7705 PrePro, Classé 5 channel 200wpc Amp, Oppo 103 BluRay, Rotel RCD-1072 CDP, Sony XBR-49X800E TV, Polk S60 Main Speakers, Polk ES30 Center Channel, Polk S15 Surround Speakers SVS SB12-NSD x2 -
This is the problem with the internet. I can't READ that you were joking Bob. I can't HEAR the sound of your words telling me it was a joke. I can't SEE your face smiling that it was a joke. If you had included one of these, I would have gotten a hint that you weren't serious (That's why they are there).
I have a great sense of humor, but this subject pushes my buttons & I find nothing amusing about it.
Tony & Joe, thanks for the back to back laughs.
Tony's a crumudgeon! I don't find anything he says funny!:eek::D:p;) -
hearingimpared wrote: »My point is that I was bullied a lot from grade school through high school and have no ilk towards kids. I can see you not wanting to have kids, that is your choice but again, to hate kids because of bad experiences in grade school just doesn't seem like you've gone past it. I can see you having some ilk towards teenagers, who doesn't LOL! but I don't get your hatred of kids Cath.
As far as your analogy of your brother being bit by a dog and an has since had a aversion that is understandable but, I used to work for a produce huckster when I was a kid for quite a few years. It was a daily occurance to carry bags into people's homes and get bit by dogs. My fear of them had gotten so bad that when walking down the street if I heard the tinkling of a dogs collar tags I would jump on top of a car before seeing the pooch. I eventually overcame that fear and now have the ability to walk up to the most aggresive appearing dog and talk to it and pet it.
I don't think comparing the two is same.
My two boys have been a source of great joy in my life. I love them so much and have grown so much as an adult as a result. I beam with pride when my older son is on the phone or in my presence. He's a great adult now and is very successful with a new wife and is making a settlement on a 5 bedroom 3 bathroom home in West Chester PA. At 26 being able to afford a home in that area speaks volumes. I'd like to think I had lots to do with his personality and success. My younger boy, I am molding him into a a young man with character and respect. He just turned 13 and I am waiting for the terrible teens to kick in but I look forward to helping him through it. He's already exhibited his good character by the friends he has chosen. It has been very rewarding and the good far outweighs the bad. I think the biggest pleasure is aiding them in not making the mistakes or suffering the consequences of bad decisions that I had made throughout my life.
Again, not judging you Cathy but there does seem to be something off kilter with hating kids because of a few bad eggs in your youth.
I think the kids in the article posted by the OP is a result of bad parenting and what you said about being a parent and not a friend. I am a friend to my boys but I'm their father first and foremost and don't kowtow to them. If they are wrong or do something really stupid they catch hell.
Joe, all of us are products of our parents genes, our raising, & our environment. All of these things help to determine how we are going to live our lives as adults.
I don't wish any kid ill, & if I came to one that needed help I would certainly do so or call someone who could help them. But I simply will not go out of my way to be around them if I can help it. Especially since so many of them are being raised getting away with bad behaviour which they will carry over into their adulthoods.
It sounds like you are a great father, but it is because you are a parent first and friend second.Marantz AV-7705 PrePro, Classé 5 channel 200wpc Amp, Oppo 103 BluRay, Rotel RCD-1072 CDP, Sony XBR-49X800E TV, Polk S60 Main Speakers, Polk ES30 Center Channel, Polk S15 Surround Speakers SVS SB12-NSD x2 -
Her fellow students are cowards, well most of them anyway. If some of her fellow students didn't stick up for her thats pathetic, sick, sad and they should feel ashamed of themselves and worse. If one stand-up guy had stuck-up for her from my experience that would have make a huge difference. I know this because I witnessed it first hand. My older brother was the toughest guy to ever go to our high school. It didn't matter who it was he'd tell them to back off the person being picked on. The cowardly bullies backed down because they are cowards. IF IF IF one so called tough guy with balls and brains had done the honorable thing we would not be discussing this right now. IF IF IF
I am pissed and sad over this whole thing. Hopefully the cowards can learn from this and the cowards are not only the bullies but the people who stood by and did NOTHING.
Legally? Who knows its Massachusetts and I used to be a Masshole. At least thats what the folks from New Hampshire thought of me.
