Ufc 111

concealer404

Anyone else watch this?

mikedup2003

yeah carwin is a beast. Gotta love them colorado badass'.

Knucklehead

I thought the "main events" kinda sucked.

AGUERRA

went to the bar to see this but unfortunately dont remember nothing of the fights. had way to much to drink

shawn474

I watched it. As much as I don't like him, GSP is an absolute animal and i can't see him losing anytime soon. I like Mir a lot, but his best days may be done. I can easily see him going to strikeforce or some other organization. Carwin mauled him and a Lesnar rematch doesn't seem in the cards for him since losing. The other matches were ok. I don't know about spending $55 to get another one anytime soon, but I am a BJ Penn fan so I want to watch 112.

concealer404

Knucklehead wrote: »

I thought the "main events" kinda sucked.

Yeahhhh... i agree.

Well... the Mir/Carwin fight was entertaining, but REAL short. It was pretty amusing watching Mir coming in jacked up, huge, and looking strong as hell, and then still getting annihilated by Carwin. I think there's a good chance of Carwin taking out Lesnar.

GSP... i'm just getting sick of him. He knows how to win, but not finish. I can't blame him really, for not taking chances and just making it a grappling fight, but really? He couldn't finish Hardy? He didn't even bust him up at all, either. I knew Hardy wouldn't win, but i found myself just HOPING that Hardy would manage to screw him up real bad on the feet between takedowns. Even though GSP is the better fighter, i would have rather seen Hardy defend a title a couple times, at least you KNOW it would have been an exciting fight. I know he's not the best in the world or anything, but that fight made me a Hardy fan. The dude has some serious grit, he's the real deal, and i can't wait to see what he brings in the future. Those submissions were disgusting looking, and i think ANYONE else would have tapped.


Oh, and i can't WAIT for Fitch to take another run at the title. He made Saunders look absolutely STUPID. The dude is an animal, and is just brutal in the way that he fights.

How does everyone feel about GSP maybe moving to Middleweight?

concealer404

shawn474 wrote: »

I watched it. As much as I don't like him, GSP is an absolute animal and i can't see him losing anytime soon. I like Mir a lot, but his best days may be done. I can easily see him going to strikeforce or some other organization. Carwin mauled him and a Lesnar rematch doesn't seem in the cards for him since losing. The other matches were ok. I don't know about spending $55 to get another one anytime soon, but I am a BJ Penn fan so I want to watch 112.

I agree on all counts. GSP IS great... he's just getting boring. I was surprised that he didn't at least attempt to stand with Hardy, it's not like GSP is a slouch on the feet, either.

I hadn't watched many Carwin fights previous to this, so i was VERY excited to see the "new" Frank Mir, and was thinking that he might get another title shot. But yeah... he had nothing on Carwin. That was a sick display of power.

mikedup2003

yeah that armbar was brutal on hardy. He won't drink a pint with that arm for a month.

shawn474

Something else..........Hardy is an animal too. That guy would not give up. GSP had him in submissions at least three times that I counted where it looked like his limbs were going to rip right off of his body. He may have gotten dominated, but there is no quit in that guy. IF he is content being the second best fighter in that division, he could be around for a long time. Maybe in a year or two, he can get another crack at GSP.

Matt34

concealer404 wrote: »

I agree on all counts. GSP IS great... he's just getting boring. I was surprised that he didn't at least attempt to stand with Hardy, it's not like GSP is a slouch on the feet, either.

I hadn't watched many Carwin fights previous to this, so i was VERY excited to see the "new" Frank Mir, and was thinking that he might get another title shot. But yeah... he had nothing on Carwin. That was a sick display of power.

+2. The GSP fight was a bore, he is just too dominating of a grappler (which in itself is amazing since he never wrestled before). He was smart though because Hardy had more than a "puncher's chance" if he stood with him.

I like Mir and thought he was going to win this fight but I'm glad Carwin won because I really didn't want to pay for another PPV to watch Lesnar make hamburger helper out of Frank's face. Carwin has some seriously heavy hands (very short uppercuts that KO'd Mir); hopefully Carwin can handle Lesnar's size and speed.

Knucklehead

concealer404 wrote: »

How does everyone feel about GSP maybe moving to Middleweight?

I think he should....I really believe he's that much better than everyone else in his current division.

concealer404

shawn474 wrote: »

Something else..........Hardy is an animal too. That guy would not give up. GSP had him in submissions at least three times that I counted where it looked like his limbs were going to rip right off of his body. He may have gotten dominated, but there is no quit in that guy. IF he is content being the second best fighter in that division, he could be around for a long time. Maybe in a year or two, he can get another crack at GSP.

I think GSP just doesn't know what to do with the guys that won't quit. He seemed more than confused by Hardy, same as he did when he fought Fitch. It's this kind of fighter, Fitch and Hardy that WILL end up taking down GSP. They'll get beat on for the better part of 3 or 4 rounds, but not give a damn, and then finally take the chance to take it to GSP, and he just won't know what to do. His corner has him acting the part of a trained monkey, and it's going to bite him in the ****.

Greg Jackson's instructions of "DO NOT PASS GUARD" had me FUMING. That's not what the sport is about.

I'm not sure i think Hardy is the second best fighter in the division, but i think he's up there, and i really hope he sticks around for a long time. He certainly deserves all of his hype, in my opinion.

concealer404

Knucklehead wrote: »

I think he should....I really believe he's that much better than everyone else in his current division.

I think he should, too, even if only so he can be the "underdog" again. I want to see him fight tooth and nail to make a statement, and climb up some ranks again, rather than just doing the bare minimum to maintain his position.

I don't think it'll be very easy for him. The weight won't be a big deal, but... he's a big welterweight. He WON'T be one of the big middleweights. He's got the skill, but i don't think he's got the strength necessary to make it to the top of middleweight. Too many HUGE guys that can, and HAVE fought at Light Heavyweight.

Here's a few that i feel would give George fits: (Keep in mind i haven't been following middleweight for awhile, so some of these guys may not be relevant anymore)

Rich Franklin
Yushin Okami (Have you ever noticed just how HUGE this guy is? It's unreal.)
Nate Marquardt
Mate Quarry
Anderson Silva (duh)
Patrick Cote

And there's probably some others i'm missing. I just seem him as the underdog to all of these guys if he were to move up.

But i agree... i think he SHOULD move up, i just don't think his ego will let him.

Knucklehead

I agree Ben Hardy IS a badass, to beat GSP, he's going to need to pack on about 5-8 lbs of muscle....now if GSP could pack on about 10lbs of muscle GSP vs Silva could be a reality one day.

Toxis

I don't get why people were bored with the GSP fight. Yeah he didn't finish him which really surprised me. I thought it was gonna be like the Penn Sanchez fight where it was down right embarrassing. And it was except Penn finished him. But GSP put on a clinic. He hasn't fought in a while and came in skinny so I knew it wasn't gonna be a standing fight. But Hardy impressed me. Yeah he got his spirit beaten and raped but he never quit. That's tough to do. You go 25 minutes against a guy who's making you seem like you just walked out of a high school tournament and tried to go pro but he kept his head up. Those submissions wouldve made anyone tap. But he gave it his all. Wow.

Carwin. Dude is strong as hell. But I don't think Mir came in expecting those punches to be as hard as they were. Good because Mir still isn't ready for a Lesnar rematch if lesnar comes back in shape from being down. Sorry but I don't see carwin giving him much better of a fight. Mir gave up, Brock won't.

ShinAce

Knucklehead wrote: »

I agree Ben Hardy IS a badass, to beat GSP, he's going to need to pack on about 5-8 lbs of muscle....now if GSP could pack on about 10lbs of muscle GSP vs Silva could be a reality one day.

I think The Spider is the best fighter of all, but I'd still like to see him actually take a punch in the face. I don't think GSP could beat him, but at least create some doubt.

Toxis

Go back to his days of Pride. Silva can take a punch. He lost a lot more there than UFC where it definitely is notthe best in the world. Silva sure is proving that point.

concealer404

Yeah, people only doubt Silva's chin because they haven't seen him pre-UFC, where he hasn't gotten tagged. I don't think GSP would be the person to take him out by any stretch of the imagination. Skill-wise, possibly, but the physical aspect is just stacked way too far against him in my opinion at least.

The Hardy GSP fight was a prime example of why it's called MIXED martial arts. GSP took the smart, but least exciting way to dictate the fight. Hardy isn't quite the complete fighter on the same level that GSP is. His grappling may actually be decent, but it's hard to tell when you pit him against someone like GSP. Grappling was GSP's only huge advantage over Hardy, and he certainly used it to his benefit.

Like i said... i want to see Fitch get another shot. Or put Hardy against Fitch just to TRULY see where Hardy stands.

Jstas

Lesnar has alot more respect for Carwin than he does for Mir. He wasn't mouthing off to Carwin like he was to Mir and he shook Carwin's hand instead of punking him out like he did to Mir.

Mir has a big mouth and I don't think he's ever been able to back it up. Others disagree with me and that's fine. Mir is just way too cocky and even in his "big wins", he's not only been a poor winner but he's gotten lucky. Congo, Nogueira and Lesnar were all lucky wins. His opponent either made a mistake or slipped or something else stupid and he capitalized. That might make him a good fighter in some people's eyes but, he was soundly losing each of those fights before he spontaneously won. The last fight I remember him winning legitimately, IMO, was Hardonk. Hardonk was completely unprepared and Mir looked seriously flabby. But Mir's raw talent won out and he slipped a Kimora on Hardonk pretty quick. It was over quite fast from what I remember. That was the last time I was impressed with Mir. But I think alot of Mir's current popularity he owes to Lesnar.

Lesnar though, I think he's afraid of Carwin and I think Carwin is taking the title. Two reasons for that. One, Carwin is a gorilla, not as tall as Lesnar but he has an insane reach and upper body strength that is almost unparalleled in the Heavyweight division. Two, the guy can take a punch. He doesn't get hit often but I don't see Lesnar throwing a brick at him and getting over. Lesnar has great wrestling skills, poor BJJ skills and decent boxing. But Carwin throws punches that will go right through a guard and hit their mark anyway.

Carwin v. Lesnar will be a big deal and I can't wait to see it.




GSP. He's excellent technically. This BS about "knowing how to win but not finish" is just that, BS. GSP can't go toe to toe with Hardy and win. So what does he do? Take him to the ground and try to maim him. But Hardy lives up to his name and doesn't give up. So what does that end up with? GSP dominating 25 minutes of fighting with Hardy and using superior tactics to secure the decision. He won maximum points in each round IIRC. It was a very good fight and honestly not nearly as well matched as I thought it would be. Hardy didn't swing a whole lot at all. If he had done what he said he was going to do and force GSP to stand and fight Hardy's fight instead of GSP's fight, the action would have been faster.

At the same time though, it was a 5 round match. You can't run out guns ablazin' and spend all your ammo in round 1 when you know you aren't going to beat your opponent in round 1. Hardy fought a smart fight but he let GSP get the best of him and never got it back to his fight. Hardy didn't control anything.

Then again, a "slow" fight is not a bad fight. Some of the best struggles I've seen came out of the Couture fights where Randy pushed his opponent up against the cage and did nothing but control and "dirty box" his opponent. The only one I haven't seen him do that to was Lesnar but I think that was just because of Lesnar's size and weight. Lesnar uses his weight to his advantage too. But, again, tactics and smart fighting. Makes for boring action but a smart, tactical fight which is just as interesting to watch.

What sucks is when you have one guy with mediocre jiujitsu trying to pass guard on a guy with no ground game and they sit there for 5 minutes with one guy's head on the other guys chest while the other guy holds wrists in control...yeah those don't get stood up nearly as often as they should.

Oh and best fight of the night? Ricardo Almeida's fight on Spike TV vs Matt Brown. He made Brown look like an amateur. It was good to see him pull out a decisive win like that again and he's looking to be in better and better shape each fight he gets. I would LOVE to see Almeida v. St. Pierre! That, I think, would be an awesome fight! Almeida is quite under-rated by many people I think. He has jiujitsu skills out the wazoo and he can stand and bang with anyone in the Welterweight division. I would love to see him storm all the way to a title shot.

concealer404

Jstas wrote: »

Lesnar has alot more respect for Carwin than he does for Mir. He wasn't mouthing off to Carwin like he was to Mir and he shook Carwin's hand instead of punking him out like he did to Mir.

Mir has a big mouth and I don't think he's ever been able to back it up. Others disagree with me and that's fine. Mir is just way too cocky and even in his "big wins", he's not only been a poor winner but he's gotten lucky. Congo, Nogueira and Lesnar were all lucky wins. His opponent either made a mistake or slipped or something else stupid and he capitalized. That might make him a good fighter in some people's eyes but, he was soundly losing each of those fights before he spontaneously won. The last fight I remember him winning legitimately, IMO, was Hardonk. Hardonk was completely unprepared and Mir looked seriously flabby. But Mir's raw talent won out and he slipped a Kimora on Hardonk pretty quick. It was over quite fast from what I remember. That was the last time I was impressed with Mir. But I think alot of Mir's current popularity he owes to Lesnar.

Lesnar though, I think he's afraid of Carwin and I think Carwin is taking the title. Two reasons for that. One, Carwin is a gorilla, not as tall as Lesnar but he has an insane reach and upper body strength that is almost unparalleled in the Heavyweight division. Two, the guy can take a punch. He doesn't get hit often but I don't see Lesnar throwing a brick at him and getting over. Lesnar has great wrestling skills, poor BJJ skills and decent boxing. But Carwin throws punches that will go right through a guard and hit their mark anyway.

Carwin v. Lesnar will be a big deal and I can't wait to see it.




GSP. He's excellent technically. This BS about "knowing how to win but not finish" is just that, BS. GSP can't go toe to toe with Hardy and win. So what does he do? Take him to the ground and try to maim him. But Hardy lives up to his name and doesn't give up. So what does that end up with? GSP dominating 25 minutes of fighting with Hardy and using superior tactics to secure the decision. He won maximum points in each round IIRC. It was a very good fight and honestly not nearly as well matched as I thought it would be. Hardy didn't swing a whole lot at all. If he had done what he said he was going to do and force GSP to stand and fight Hardy's fight instead of GSP's fight, the action would have been faster.

At the same time though, it was a 5 round match. You can't run out guns ablazin' and spend all your ammo in round 1 when you know you aren't going to beat your opponent in round 1. Hardy fought a smart fight but he let GSP get the best of him and never got it back to his fight. Hardy didn't control anything.

Then again, a "slow" fight is not a bad fight. Some of the best struggles I've seen came out of the Couture fights where Randy pushed his opponent up against the cage and did nothing but control and "dirty box" his opponent. The only one I haven't seen him do that to was Lesnar but I think that was just because of Lesnar's size and weight. Lesnar uses his weight to his advantage too. But, again, tactics and smart fighting. Makes for boring action but a smart, tactical fight which is just as interesting to watch.

What sucks is when you have one guy with mediocre jiujitsu trying to pass guard on a guy with no ground game and they sit there for 5 minutes with one guy's head on the other guys chest while the other guy holds wrists in control...yeah those don't get stood up nearly as often as they should.

Oh and best fight of the night? Ricardo Almeida's fight on Spike TV vs Matt Brown. He made Brown look like an amateur. It was good to see him pull out a decisive win like that again and he's looking to be in better and better shape each fight he gets. I would LOVE to see Almeida v. St. Pierre! That, I think, would be an awesome fight! Almeida is quite under-rated by many people I think. He has jiujitsu skills out the wazoo and he can stand and bang with anyone in the Welterweight division. I would love to see him storm all the way to a title shot.

Call the press... i think i agree with John 110% on all points.

I think i was a little hasty in saying that GSP doesn't know how to finish. I just feel that his huge "lead" over everyone else in the division that he once had is starting to narrow, either that, or there's some real masochistic dudes out there in Fitch and Hardy in particular. He clearly outclassed both of them, but SOMETHING was just stopping him from out and out finishing them, and particularly in the Hardy fight, he should have been able to. A lot of that is Greg Jackson's fault in my opinion, and some of it is George's fault. He did have a couple sloppy instances, particularly when he was on Hardy's back. He kept getting up too high. I couldn't tell if that was a mistake on his part, or if Hardy was somehow catching what was going on that well. I don't know much about Hardy's ground game.

John, out of curiousity and no, i'm not challenging your thoughts or anything... But you really don't think GSP could have gone toe to toe with Hardy and won? I was wondering about that myself, but i really couldn't decide. I've seen some great striking (at least in my mind) out of GSP in the past, even if it strangely SEEMS like he's lacking a little power in his punches. (Probably perceived rather than truth.) Toxis did point out that GSP came in a little skinny compared to how he's been in the past, do you think that may have had something to do with it?

I'm with you on Mir. He's been cocky, i'm not a huge fan of him, but he's got the raw talent, and i am looking forward to seeing how he does as he moves towards becoming a more complete fighter, rather than a flabby submission specialist. With more strength, better conditioning, and some striking, i think he'll be interesting to keep an eye on.

All my buddies think that Lesnar is going to run through Carwin, saying that Carwin isn't near as strong as Lesnar. I'm not entirely sure they've been watching the same fights I have. Lesnar has a lot of show muscle. Carwin just has that natural "beef," the gorilla aspect that you mentioned. I can't wait for that fight either, and my money is on Carwin.



Did you watch the Hamman/Wallace fight? I was cracking up the entire time. Classic roidfreak vs. skinny office dude hilarity.

What'd you think of Fitch and Pellegrino?

KASR

I've been saying that Carwin will be the one to oust Brock and as much as I want to see it happen, I would've liked to see the Mir/Lesnar trilogy play out!
Nate Diaz looked great!

Sami

concealer404 wrote: »

GSP... i'm just getting sick of him. He knows how to win, but not finish.

concealer404 wrote: »

Those submissions were disgusting looking, and i think ANYONE else would have tapped.

I find these to contradict each other. If you think GSP would have finished anyone else with those submission attempts, doesn't it mean he knows how to finish?

concealer404

Sami wrote: »

I find these to contradict each other. If you think GSP would have finished anyone else with those submission attempts, doesn't it mean he knows how to finish?

Good point. I guess i should amend that to say that there's some people that he's had some trouble with. Fitch and Hardy are the main two i guess i'm adressing at this point. Maybe they're just too stubborn? I would say that maybe he would have been better off concentrating on ground and pound with Hardy, but he did seem to try that a couple times, and one thing Hardy seemed to be good at on the ground was minimizing damage. For someone that just went 25 minutes with GSP, he didn't seem busted up. At all.

Toxis

It's gonna be a better fight but I still don't see carwin pulling a W without a lucky punch. Sure he could do just that but doesn't mean he'll clean up like he did Mir.

GSP can stand and go toe to toe. He's done it many times and I'm sorry, he's too quick and strong for hardy. My opinion is GSP came off an injury so he was skinny, probably was a little doubting of his strength so he went with what he knew Hardy couldn't handle. His ground game. If they fight again, I could see GSP pulling the win yet again no matter where the fight goes. He stood with fitch some and then got the best of him on the ground. Fitch is the same as Hardy. Tough **** but that only takes you so far. Sure Fitch beat Saunders (which I'm actually a little surprised at). Now that I think of it, Fitch Hardy would be a good fight if they stayed standing. Fitch I think would imitate GSP and go to the ground but I'd like to see it regardless.

Just because his name was brought up but Kongo needs to go away. He's god awful and boring as ****.

Toxis

concealer404 wrote: »

Good point. I guess i should amend that to say that there's some people that he's had some trouble with. Fitch and Hardy are the main two i guess i'm adressing at this point. Maybe they're just too stubborn? I would say that maybe he would have been better off concentrating on ground and pound with Hardy, but he did seem to try that a couple times, and one thing Hardy seemed to be good at on the ground was minimizing damage. For someone that just went 25 minutes with GSP, he didn't seem busted up. At all.

no he didn't but GSP wasn't trying for ground and pound. He was show casing his BJJ. How many Royce Gracie opponents came out busted up except having limbs hurting? And I don't think Hardy will be at full motion today. He had three limbs get attacked so he's in pain. Period.

concealer404

Toxis wrote: »

It's gonna be a better fight but I still don't see carwin pulling a W without a lucky punch. Sure he could do just that but doesn't mean he'll clean up like he did Mir.

GSP can stand and go toe to toe. He's done it many times and I'm sorry, he's too quick and strong for hardy. My opinion is GSP came off an injury so he was skinny, probably was a little doubting of his strength so he went with what he knew Hardy couldn't handle. His ground game. If they fight again, I could see GSP pulling the win yet again no matter where the fight goes. He stood with fitch some and then got the best of him on the ground. Fitch is the same as Hardy. Tough **** but that only takes you so far. Sure Fitch beat Saunders (which I'm actually a little surprised at). Now that I think of it, Fitch Hardy would be a good fight if they stayed standing. Fitch I think would imitate GSP and go to the ground but I'd like to see it regardless.

Just because his name was brought up but Kongo needs to go away. He's god awful and boring as ****.

I'm not sure if "beat" was the right word for what Fitch did to Saunders. Saunders got WORKED. In his defense, he took that fight on VERY short notice. I have been impressed with Saunders in the past. His size poses a real problem for a lot of people in that division. He's one that i really like, and he's usually quite fun to watch.

I think Fitch/Hardy would be probably about the same fight as what GSP did to Hardy. Fitch isn't AWFUL on his feet, but it's not his strength. He likes his dirty boxing, but other than that, i don't find his standup to be anything REAL special. I think he'd be more about ground and pound than submissions, though. I think it would be a more exciting fight than what we watched with GSP/Hardy, though. I think 3 rounds of brutal Fitch-Style grind/ground and pound would have a better chance of besting Hardy than 5 rounds of controlling and submission attempts based on what we saw.

+1 on Kongo. He's never really captivated me.

Matt34

Toxis wrote: »

It's gonna be a better fight but I still don't see carwin pulling a W without a lucky punch. Sure he could do just that but doesn't mean he'll clean up like he did Mir.

I wouldn't call them "lucky punches". He KO'd Mir with a short uppercut in the clinch. The guy just has bricks in his hands, if he connects it's been lights out for his opponents.


Mir- He looked better than he ever has conditioning wise, a good 10-15lb of extra muscle easy. I wouldn't call his wins over Kongo and especially Nog "lucky". Did he catch an inexperienced Lesner in an ankle lock? Sure, but he doesn't need luck to win, what Mir struggles with is it all coming together at the same time: conditioning, techinque, striking, mental prepation etc.

What I found interesting was when Brock came into the cage after Carwin's fight which gave us the first real side by side comparison between the two. Brock's height is listed as 6'3" and has been throughout his professional sports carrer yet he looks huge standing next to Carwin where I've seen his height listed as anywhere from 6'2"-6'5". He is much closer to the 6'-2" after seeing that Saturday.

Sami

I think Carwin himself has been quoted saying he is 6'1".

Matt34

I'm going to make an early perdiction on the Lesnar/Carwin fight and say 2nd round KO by Lesnar. If Carwin doesn't catch Lesner quick I think we will see the bigger, much more accomplished wrestler ground and pounding his way to another victory.

Matt34

Sami wrote: »

I think Carwin himself has been quoted saying he is 6'1".

Your right, someone asked him on his twitter account and that's what he said.

http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2010/3/28/1393913/snapshot-of-the-day-brock-lesnar

Toxis

I'm sorry but Brock's attitude in the ring was ridiculous. He's the reason I see UFC going downhill. Yes I know he came from the WWE but seriously, does he have to still carry that attitude? I know it's ratings and that's why a lot of mindless, Nascar watching, Busch Light drinking rednecks watch UFC (need proof? Go to any bar to watch a PPV) but I always appreciated the sportsmanship behind it. Something that Ogre will never have. Smack talk and saying how you're going to whoop someone is one thing but just flat out being a douschbag about it... I can't wait for the day Brock gets his **** clocked. I just am not sure who's going to do it. I will root for Carwin but I don't see it happening. We need more BIG guys from Pride to come in but UFC won't pay them enough. Ahem... Fedor... ahem...