Speaker cable size

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Comments

  • nooshinjohn
    nooshinjohn Posts: 25,457
    edited March 2010
    DELETED... not worth the effort
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD

    “When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,203
    edited March 2010
    kolbtod wrote: »
    All wiring is a factor in 4 elements:
    -gauge size
    - shielding (single or multi-layered)
    - wire type (copper/gold/silver)
    - solid or stranded

    Distance and placement of speakers to unit producing the sound (AVR, power amp, etc..) is a key contributor to the sound quality. The further your speakers are away from the sound source and the more noise that can be introduced into the wire (such as a power source near the wire), the faster the quality of the signal degrades. If your speakers are close to the sound source, then lower quality wire vs higher quality wire is all relative.

    In my situation, my speakers are only 4 feet away from the sound source so I have no signal leakage and no power source is near it neither so I don't have to worry about that distorting the signal neither. This is why I only have a slight improvement.

    Now at the former club, the speaker runs are far away (100+ feet) and the wiring was ran on top of the dance floor lights. In this application you have to contend with the heat of the lamps and the electrical field from the 220v electrical wiring. Solid 12 guage, 3 layer insulated cable with banana plugs was required to prevent signal loss to the speakers in that setup, not to mention the speaker sound quality could produce sounds most lower-end models can not.

    Concerning brands and brand names - That's a personal choice and in these forums more like a religion. Check the specs of the wire, that is the most important attribute of a wire, not the marketing name slapped on the packaging.

    For the average user, using 14 gauge "in-wall" is good enough to get the full spectrum of sound to your speakers.


    You have A LOT to learn.
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
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  • ikolbyi
    ikolbyi Posts: 77
    edited March 2010
    heiney9 wrote: »
    You have A LOT to learn.

    Sarcasm does not help anyone, describing in detail what is missing from my posting does.
    Zone 1
    (5.1 Setup)
    -- VM 20 (L/R)
    -- RM 8 Center (center)
    -- VM 10 (S.L/R)
    -- DSW microPRO 1000 (LFE)
    Zone 2
    -- Atrium 45
    Denon AVR-2809
    (7.1 Setup)
    -- RM 6600 (L/R + center + S.L/R)
    -- RM 7 (SB.L/R)
    -- PSW 350 (LFE)
    Denon AVR-1909
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,203
    edited March 2010
    kolbtod wrote: »
    Sarcasm does not help anyone, describing in detail what is missing from my posting does.

    I'm not going to rehash a subject that has been beaten to death. There are atleast 20-30 cable threads. Get your learn on or continue in the darkness. Makes no difference to me. :)

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
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  • concealer404
    concealer404 Posts: 7,440
    edited March 2010
    kolbtod wrote: »
    Sarcasm does not help anyone, describing in detail what is missing from my posting does.

    That wasn't sarcasm, though... :)
    I don't read the newsssspaperssss because dey aaaallllllllll...... have ugly print.

    Living Room: B&K Reference 5 S2 / Parasound HCA-1000A / Emotiva XDA-2 / Pioneer BDP-51FD / Paradigm 11se MKiii

    Desk: Schiit Magni 2 Uber / Schiit Modi 2 Uber / ISK HD9999

    Office: Schiit Magni 2 Uber / Schiit Modi 2 Uber / Dynaco SCA-80Q / Paradigm Legend V.3

    HT: Denon AVR-X3400H / Sony UBP-X700 / RT16 / CS350LS / RT7 / SVS PB1000
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  • Face
    Face Posts: 14,340
    edited March 2010
    kolbtod wrote: »
    Sarcasm does not help anyone, describing in detail what is missing from my posting does.
    Experience.
    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche
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  • ikolbyi
    ikolbyi Posts: 77
    edited March 2010
    Face wrote: »
    Experience.

    According to MIT white papers, I'm on the money: http://www.mitcables.com/mit-cables-technical-/-whitepapers/reference-library/articles/mit-cables-technical-whitepapers/menu-id-252.html

    Specifically: MIT White Paper: Energy, Efficiency, & Noise in Audio Cables

    Better cables do produce better sound (have always said that), but for the average ear, that largely depends on the type of hardware and set-up you own if it truly makes a real difference. A point some of you seem to miss.
    Zone 1
    (5.1 Setup)
    -- VM 20 (L/R)
    -- RM 8 Center (center)
    -- VM 10 (S.L/R)
    -- DSW microPRO 1000 (LFE)
    Zone 2
    -- Atrium 45
    Denon AVR-2809
    (7.1 Setup)
    -- RM 6600 (L/R + center + S.L/R)
    -- RM 7 (SB.L/R)
    -- PSW 350 (LFE)
    Denon AVR-1909
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  • shack
    shack Posts: 11,154
    edited March 2010
    Keiko wrote:
    ~yawn~

    I agree Mike. :rolleyes:
    "Just because you’re offended doesn’t mean you’re right." - Ricky Gervais

    "For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible." - Stuart Chase

    "Consistency requires you to be as ignorant today as you were a year ago." - Bernard Berenson
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  • ikolbyi
    ikolbyi Posts: 77
    edited March 2010
    shack wrote: »
    I agree Mike. :rolleyes:

    Point, set, match: http://www.roger-russell.com/wire/wire.htm

    Another website that concurs with my analysis. For those of you who write "yawn" or some other sarcastic comment, I recommend you detail why you feel all of this is inaccurate.
    Zone 1
    (5.1 Setup)
    -- VM 20 (L/R)
    -- RM 8 Center (center)
    -- VM 10 (S.L/R)
    -- DSW microPRO 1000 (LFE)
    Zone 2
    -- Atrium 45
    Denon AVR-2809
    (7.1 Setup)
    -- RM 6600 (L/R + center + S.L/R)
    -- RM 7 (SB.L/R)
    -- PSW 350 (LFE)
    Denon AVR-1909
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  • AudioMancer
    AudioMancer Posts: 21
    edited March 2010
    kolbtod wrote: »
    Point, set, match: http://www.roger-russell.com/wire/wire.htm

    Another website that concurs with my analysis. For those of you who write "yawn" or some other sarcastic comment, I recommend you detail why you feel all of this is inaccurate.


    That site must have one helluva Google hit count! :p
    A/V Proc: UMC-1
    AMP......: XPA-5
    Speakers: Polk LCi-RTS100 x 5
    Sub.......: Velodyne SPL-1200R

    Bluray....: Pioneer BDP320
    HD DVD..: Toshiba HD-A30
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,729
    edited March 2010
    I recommend you detail why you feel all of this is inaccurate.

    Personal experience.

    Point, Set, Match!
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,203
    edited March 2010
    Roger Russell?????? You have got to be kidding me. He's the worst charlatan of them all. All the people, including myself, whom are bored with cable debates will direct you to the 20 or 30 other cables discussions done right here on this board in which we have all participated. If you want to take the time and are really interested in what we (as a collective) have to say then spend some time reading; if not then fine............but I'm done here as it's all been said.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
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  • ikolbyi
    ikolbyi Posts: 77
    edited March 2010
    heiney9 wrote: »
    Roger Russell?????? You have got to be kidding me. He's the worst charlatan of them all. All the people, including myself, whom are bored with cable debates will direct you to the 20 or 30 other cables discussions done right here on this board in which we have all participated. If you want to take the time and are really interested in what we (as a collective) have to say then spend some time reading; if not then fine............but I'm done here as it's all been said.

    H9

    Your feelings for R.Russell are humours when MIT (Music Interface Technologies) White Papers indicate the same principles as noted earlier. The MIT cables are fine products and are designed for higher-end equipment that can take advantage of the better quality. But for the average consumer with average speakers purchased from BestBuy or similar retailer, those type of cables will not add additional value over traditional 14 gauge wire with short distances to the consumer's listening experience.
    Zone 1
    (5.1 Setup)
    -- VM 20 (L/R)
    -- RM 8 Center (center)
    -- VM 10 (S.L/R)
    -- DSW microPRO 1000 (LFE)
    Zone 2
    -- Atrium 45
    Denon AVR-2809
    (7.1 Setup)
    -- RM 6600 (L/R + center + S.L/R)
    -- RM 7 (SB.L/R)
    -- PSW 350 (LFE)
    Denon AVR-1909
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,203
    edited March 2010
    BlueFox wrote: »
    Roger Russell says there is no difference between low-end/high-end cables regardless of the equipment being used. That is why he, and his followers, are charlatans.

    Don't forget he's a hypocrite as well. Spouting off about how cables make no difference whatsoever, but then wires the highend speakers he sell's with Cardas wiring. Charlatan-hypocrite with no credibility in my eyes, not to mention I hear differences in just about every cable or system I run.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
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  • halo71
    halo71 Posts: 4,604
    edited March 2010
    There must not be a mod logged in right now. :rolleyes:

    I just don't understand why people wanna argue about cables so much. If you wanna run lamp cord and are happy with it, run lamp cord. If you wanna run $3000 cable and can afford it, do it. Some folks act like they are getting paid to promote/change minds about speaker cables.
    --Gary--
    Onkyo Integra M504, Bottlehead Foreplay III, Denon SACD, Thiel CS2.3, NHT VT-2, VT-3 and Evolution T6, Infinity RSIIIa, SDA1C and a few dozen other speakers around the house I change in and out.
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