Breaking Bad

Jstas

Gustavo is a delightfully twisted and calculating individual!

I wonder what he slipped the Cousin that survived?

I wonder if he tipped of the "Federales" or if they were paid assassins? I'm thinking they were paid 'cause I doubt the "Federales" would knock on the door with 3 laser sighted automatic weapons and gun down a wanted dude like that.

Gustavo has been behind alot. I wonder how much father they are going to take it? He's turning in to his own "cartel"! He's quickly becoming one of my favorite characters on the show.

I also don't think Gustavo is going to tolerate Pinkman much longer and that dude, Gale, the lab assistant that Gustavo hired for Walter's help, yeah, he's going to be a thon in Gustavo and Walter's side in the future. I think when Walt told Gustavo's thug that picked up Pinkman at the hospital not to do anything to Gale, that's one of those regretful foreshadowing things. Gale seems to have a screw loose that isn't bothersome as long as his world is hunky-dory. But now that he's slighted by Walt, he's going to go and screw something up for someone somewhere.

This just gets better and better week after week! I wish it came on more often than once a week!

KrazyMofo24

Last night episode was great. I don't think Gale will play a significant role after this episode, but I could be wrong. Looks like Gus feels he doesn't need the Cartel anymore now that he has Walt and that super lab. He won't get rid of Jesse because Walt needs him for the lab, and want's to keep the relationship smooth with Walt.

I want to see how Hank reacts to all of this, and the cartel.

bklynNupe

Jstas wrote: »

Gustavo is a delightfully twisted and calculating individual!

I wonder what he slipped the Cousin that survived?

I wonder if he tipped of the "Federales" or if they were paid assassins? I'm thinking they were paid 'cause I doubt the "Federales" would knock on the door with 3 laser sighted automatic weapons and gun down a wanted dude like that.

Gustavo has been behind alot. I wonder how much father they are going to take it? He's turning in to his own "cartel"! He's quickly becoming one of my favorite characters on the show.

I also don't think Gustavo is going to tolerate Pinkman much longer and that dude, Gale, the lab assistant that Gustavo hired for Walter's help, yeah, he's going to be a thon in Gustavo and Walter's side in the future. I think when Walt told Gustavo's thug that picked up Pinkman at the hospital not to do anything to Gale, that's one of those regretful foreshadowing things. Gale seems to have a screw loose that isn't bothersome as long as his world is hunky-dory. But now that he's slighted by Walt, he's going to go and screw something up for someone somewhere.

This just gets better and better week after week! I wish it came on more often than once a week!

+1 on everything you said!
I like how Gustavo had to remind Walter that he is also a respected member of the community.
also
What I like about Walter’s character is that he isn’t for super righteous character that is forced into his lifestyle, but rather a flawed individual.
Jessie cut into Walter when he told Walter “you don’t give a sh#t about me!” Walter often gets caught up in his own world.
I think the majority of Walter’s dialog are his facial expressions.
Then you have Gustavo who is the ultimate poker face.
They have truly set the bar for basic cable.

Jstas

KrazyMofo24 wrote: »

Last night episode was great. I don't think Gale will play a significant role after this episode, but I could be wrong. Looks like Gus feels he doesn't need the Cartel anymore now that he has Walt and that super lab. He won't get rid of Jesse because Walt needs him for the lab, and want's to keep the relationship smooth with Walt.

I want to see how Hank reacts to all of this, and the cartel.

The only reason Walt needs Jesse is because Jesse threatened to bring the whole deal crashing down if he gets picked up. He said he'd squeal like a stuck pig for a plea bargain. Walt doesn't need/want Jesse. He's just keep his friends close and his enemies closer. I'm pretty sure Walk would prefer Gale. They did a 7 minute montage of the Walt/Gale "love affair" when the Gale character was first introduced.

Walt treats Jesse like a kid. Gale was a peer. Walt liked Gale but axed him in a fit of self-preservation.

KrazyMofo24

That's true he was forced in to that situation. However he does care about him, they don't necessarily get along at the moment, but he chose this over having someone kill him.

I mean he does care about him, that's why he let his girlfriend die he saw what she was doing to him. So since Walt decided not to kill Jesse after Saul suggested it, and got him in the lab he's definitely not going to allow Gus to do it, and still be on good terms with him.

Gus is kind of scary now not sure what he's capable of now. He turns the cousins to Hank, and then tips him that they are coming.

Can't wait for the next one.

Jstas

KrazyMofo24 wrote: »

That's true he was forced in to that situation. However he does care about him, they don't necessarily get along at the moment, but he chose this over having someone kill him.

I mean he does care about him, that's why he let his girlfriend die he saw what she was doing to him. So since Walt decided not to kill Jesse after Saul suggested it, and got him in the lab he's definitely not going to allow Gus to do it, and still be on good terms with him.

Gus is kind of scary now not sure what he's capable of now. He turns the cousins to Hank, and then tips him that they are coming.

Can't wait for the next one.

He didn't care about what Jesse's girlfriend was doing to Jesse. She threatened Walt because Jesse thought Walt was withholding Jesse's fair share of the money. So Jane threatened him and said that she and Jesse are partners now and she wants the money or she was going to bring his world crashing down. Walt didn't care about what Jesse wanted, he was, again, going for the self-preservation route.

The only non-Walt thing Walt has done through the entire show so far was to provide for his family after his inevitable (at the time) death from cancer. Anything beyond that is all Walt.

bobman1235

Agreed with Jstas. At one point Walt may have had some sort of fatherly feeling towards Jesse, but that is LONG gone at this point. Walt cares about his ego and self-preservation at this point.

Jstas

bobman1235 wrote: »

Agreed with Jstas. At one point Walt may have had some sort of fatherly feeling towards Jesse, but that is LONG gone at this point. Walt cares about his ego and self-preservation at this point.

I think there is ego when it comes to Jesse but not many other places. Walt still sees him as the teenager screw up in his Chemistry class that he almost failed out of school. He doesn't want to admit that Jesse may actually be good at cooking.

I think he did have a fatherly affection for Jesse at one point but I think it was Jesse that ruined that. Jesse, both directly and indirectly, has bitten the hand that feeds him multiple times. I think Walt is fed up with Jesse's poor attitude, unpredictable behavior and drastic mood swings.

I know if I was trying to be sneaky, Jesse is the last person I'd want around. Gustavo, he'd be my best friend for sneaking around! Dude's got "under the radar" down to a science.

KrazyMofo24

I agree with the self-preservation, and that's a big factor on why he's forced to take action, however he still cared about Jesse. He took him to the rehab afterwards, and now the easy thing would be to get rid of Jesse, but he chose to make him a partner again.

http://www.amctv.com/videos/breaking-bad/?bcpid=9787693001&bclid=64070573001&bctid=75251941001

That link has a breakdown of each episode, the creator of the show, and the actors give their perspective of what's going on each episode. I find it interesting, it gives you more insight on what the writers are trying to portray in each scene. I know I've picked up on a few things watching these.

KrazyMofo24

Jstas wrote: »

I think there is ego when it comes to Jesse but not many other places. Walt still sees him as the teenager screw up in his Chemistry class that he almost failed out of school. He doesn't want to admit that Jesse may actually be good at cooking.

I think he did have a fatherly affection for Jesse at one point but I think it was Jesse that ruined that. Jesse, both directly and indirectly, has bitten the hand that feeds him multiple times. I think Walt is fed up with Jesse's poor attitude, unpredictable behavior and drastic mood swings.

I know if I was trying to be sneaky, Jesse is the last person I'd want around. Gustavo, he'd be my best friend for sneaking around! Dude's got "under the radar" down to a science.

I agree with this, but if he didn't care he for sure wouldn't make him partners he would have gotten Gus to get rid of him.

Jesse is a screw up, and him smiling when he saw Hank in the ER is pretty cold. I think he's going to cause more trouble, but since he's a big part of the show I don't see them getting rid of him.

scottyboy76

excellent show, my wife and i have watched from the beginning,the resolution is annoying as hell. the cinematography would be great if the pq was better. also the only way we were able to continue watching is they started to show the destruction the poison that is meth has brought to familys and our country. you get messed up on that stuff, you stay messed up. even if you quit.well over 90 percent comes across americas former border with our new state, mexico. our panty waist softhanded sissy legislators scramble to get in front of the mics to take credit for passing legislation requiring all of us to show id and sign for cold medicine, which is fine with me every five years or so i might need a coupkle days of meds, all the while they know the real problem flows from the cesspool that was once mexico. iam a marijuana smoker for 35 years off and on. i am a libertarian who believes you should be able to ingest anything you want. but that stuff is a whole different bag of death.truly great show great casting and writing and we are glad they have shown the destruction, anybody remember the little red headed boy whose parents were zombified meth heads and he had to live in it. that was tame compared to reality. but we applaud the depiction. along with great entertainment we hope they continue to show such things.

KrazyMofo24

Anyone catch the season finale tonight? I was wrong about Gale not playing a significant role. This show keeps getting better and better. This is the first time I'm going to have to wait to a long time for the next season, and it sucks.

thuffman03

Yes I did. It was very good.

Jstas

Whoa.

I thought for sure Walt was going to give up Pinkman. Gale was a weenie when he came back. Didn't like him at all but I had a feeling that's who the boss was going to get. I mean, that's what I would have done. No training necessary and Gale already knew the operation. Learning curve was nice and easy and very short. Gale is an impressionable dork though.

Then again, we don't know if Jesse really shot him. The camera did pan so that the gun looked slightly to the right of Gale's head when the shot was fired.

Man, this is going to drive me nuts!

On3s&Z3r0s

Whether or not Gale got shot, Walt is turning into the best sociopath genius since Kaiser Soze! All the characters are awesome. I think "Better Call Saul" deserves a spin off.

Jstas

I don't think Walt is a sociopath. I think he made a bad decision in the face of death where his death meant he'd never have to answer for his crimes. Can't prosecute a dead guy. But Walt lived and now he's trying to find a happy medium and is in way over his head.

bobman1235

I don't think Walt started as a sociopath but it's hard to argue that he's getting closer and closer.

I read an awesome interview with the creator and he said he never meant there to be any ambiguity about that last scene. Jesse shot the guy.

Fongolio

Absolutely the most entertaining show on TV right now with the exception of Dexter. It's a long wait for more Breaking Bad fix now. The last two episodes were brilliant.

KrazyMofo24

I thought the same about him dying too, but he did get shot. http://www.amctv.com/videos/?bcpid=1740031430&bclid=1768641490&bctid=87219321001

The first time I watched it live I thought he moved the gun, but after watching it a few times it's just the camera moving. Also the creator pretty much implies that he dies.

Jstas

bobman1235 wrote: »

I don't think Walt started as a sociopath but it's hard to argue that he's getting closer and closer.

I don't see it. I see a guy making decisions that lead him down paths he didn't or couldn't see and he keeps getting tied up in stuff that he doesn't know how to handle. I don't see him as a sociopath. I see him as panicking and trying to preserve himself and now, Jesse, who seems to be the only one he can trust.

Fongolio

Running over the two drug dealers and then getting out of the car and putting a bullet into the head of the one still writhing on the ground doesn't count as a sociopathic act?

bobman1235

Jstas wrote: »

I don't see it. I see a guy making decisions that lead him down paths he didn't or couldn't see and he keeps getting tied up in stuff that he doesn't know how to handle. I don't see him as a sociopath. I see him as panicking and trying to preserve himself and now, Jesse, who seems to be the only one he can trust.

I think you're being naive. The show has shown time and again that Walter is way beyond just doing something to help his family. Remember when the money started being funneled through the website his son set up and he was pissed that he wasn't getting credit? Remember when he let Jesse's girlfriend choke and die because she was a minor inconvenience to him?

There's a line that a normal person doesn't cross, and Walter has crossed that line time and again.

Jstas

Fongolio wrote: »

Running over the two drug dealers and then getting out of the car and putting a bullet into the head of the one still writhing on the ground doesn't count as a sociopathic act?

No, it strikes me as a father defending his family. That's how Walter has been portrayed through the entire series.

bobman1235 wrote: »

I think you're being naive. The show has shown time and again that Walter is way beyond just doing something to help his family. Remember when the money started being funneled through the website his son set up and he was pissed that he wasn't getting credit? Remember when he let Jesse's girlfriend choke and die because she was a minor inconvenience to him?

There's a line that a normal person doesn't cross, and Walter has crossed that line time and again.

Naive? Really? It's a TV show. Get over yourself.

Walter is not doing this to help his family. He is doing it to make money and honestly, he's protecting his family. They will be a target next season. I can see it coming. How is Gus going to control Walt if Walt keeps killing his replacements?

As far as his son's website, I didn't get that he was pissed because he wasn't getting credit. I got that he was seriously bothered that his ill gotten gains were being praised as a charitable event garnering so much attention. It seemed to me that he was at a moral impasse and was struggling with rationalizing his behavior. I also got that he was staring death in the face and living on borrowed time as well as trying to figure out his next move to keep things quiet and away from his family.

As far as Jesse's girlfriend, again, self-preservation. She threatened him and told him that she would use Jesse as a pawn against him. Jesse didn't know this and she was manipulating him. Walt could have done something and he didn't and that bugs him. So much so that when Jesse drugged him like 4 episodes ago, he was this >< close to telling him what really happened and he was visibly distraught about it.

No, these actions don't strike me as those of a sociopath. Sociaopaths do not feel remorse nor do they struggle with the outcomes and consquences of their actions. I don't believe Walter is heading down the path to sociopath either. I believe he's a regular guy trying to play in the world of the sociopath and he's realized that he has to make decisions that he struggles with whereas the sociopaths that surround him like Mike "the cleaner", Gus the Boss and Saul the lawyer don't struggle with it at all and rationalize it away as "business".

I also see Jesse as the moral high ground. He's the only one who hasn't betrayed himself. He struggles with a drug problem but the drug problem isn't about dependence. The drug problem is about escape. It's the same reason many smokers can't quit. It's not about meth for him. It's about the chance to make the world not matter for a while. It's a chance for him to escape when things get too raw for him to handle. This was illustrated when he was pondering toking up on a meth pipe when Walter called.

No, Walter and Jesse are not sociopaths. Everyone else around them, including Walter's wife, Skyler, are sociopaths. Well, Walter's son isn't. The kid just wants what's best for his family. But even Hank and his wife are sociopaths. They seem to care more about their own wishes than what's best for themselves and others around them. Hank's wife would never be ok with taking the money from Walt and Skyler if she new it was drug money but she's ok with taking it because they said it was from another morally corrupt venture with Walt gambling and counting cards with his "system". She's just as morally bankrupt as everyone else. Walt set out to do what he felt he needed to do and accomplished it. Others are trying to take it from him and he's doing his best and what he has to do to defend it. He was out of it. He was done with it, no more cooking. He got pulled back in to it because he had to bail Jesse out of a bind. Yeah, through the whole thing Walt has thought of nothing for himself except protecting Jesse and providing for his family. The only time he is thinking of himself is when he's faced with death.

Walt is smarter than anyone gives him credit for. I really can't wait for next season!

bobman1235

Naive about the TV show, not about life, dinkus. Stop being such a sensitive baby.

You're justifying the acts of a sociopath. I'm sorry you don't see it that way, but you're just wrong. The creators have gone out of theri way to show what a monster Walter has become, and the fact that you don't see that makes me think you're watching a different show.

On3s&amp;Z3r0s

Jstas wrote: »

No, Walter and Jesse are not sociopaths. Everyone else around them, including Walter's wife, Skyler, are sociopaths.

Walter isn't a sociopath but Skyler is?!? That's completely ridiculous. I get that Walt is a sympathetic character given where he came from and what his original motivations were for getting into the drug trade, but that doesn't make him any less cold blooded and sociopathic. Did he look remorseful to you after he sent Jesse to kill Gale? He looked pretty self-satisfied to me.

Anyway, doesn't matter... Gale had it coming. Dude had some truly wacky taste in music.

Jstas

I don't think you geniuses know exactly what a sociopath is.

so·ci·o·path
–noun Psychiatry .
a person, as a psychopathic personality, whose behavior is antisocial and who lacks a sense of moral responsibility or social conscience.

Walter has a sense of moral responsibility. The rest of the characters are rationalizing poor decision making with the only motivation being the direct benefit to themselves. Walter's motivation was to leave his family with financial stability. He is now protecting his family and it's clear he sees himself as a father figure to Jesse. Mentally, that makes Jesse part of Walter's family. Walter is not in this for himself. He is benefiting but his motivations are not selfish. Jesse is not a sociopath because his moral responsibility is destroying him. He is so conflicted he's paralyzed.

Hank's Wife rationalized taking ill gotten money so that she wouldn't have to worry about money. Hank's therapy was a secondary concern.

Hank's rationalization of his inability to walk and lack of effort in healing is personal. He feels inadequate and doesn't want to go back to the DEA because he's scared.

Skyler's rationalization is that Walt's already done it so might as well give in. She had no responsibility in any of it and chose to implicate herself by not getting divorced. Why? Because she wouldn't have to testify against Walt but moreso because she plans to be Walt's book keeper so she can launder the money. Her decision was masked by her "loyalty" to Walt which she betrayed with infidelity and then lying about the divorce.

Gus is a sociopath because he's drunk on power. He made a power grab from the cartel and the scene in the warehouse where the Asian guy gets shot in the hand shows that Gus is a marked man because of his greed.

Mike is a sociopath because he breaks every Commandment in the book and rationalizes it with "it's business". Then he has the ability to unflinchingly spend the day with his granddaughter while he knows that later that night he will be laying waste to several lives. He has no remorse about it. Even in his "apology" to Walt for having to kill him.

Saul...yeah, he's a lawyer who lies, manipulates the system and exploits every loophole he can for his "fee". All the while rationalizing his poor behavior with "attorney client privilege". He's focused on money and extorts those who have no other route to legal defense. He's not only morally corrupt, he's the most bankrupt one of them all. Worst part is, he doesn't really care, as long as he gets his.

They are all sociopaths.

Walt's "self-satisifed" look was not because he was happy to have killed Gale or even sent Jesse to do it. He was happy because he outsmarted his opponents. His look wasn't "self-satisfied". His look was "Yeah, that's right, I got your man. What you gonna do now?" That's not a sociopathic look. That's a look of victory. He won the small fight. But prior to that, he was procrastinating leaving his house to go kill Gale because he was morally objectionable to it but realized it had to be done. It was rationalizing and he was racked with remorse over it. Jesse was even worse than he was.

bobman1235

Writing lots of words doesn't make you right.

Cold-blooded murder of an innocent man, whether it can be rationalized as "defense of one's family" in a VERY convoluted way or not, is sociopathic behavior. It is an action that ignores the rules of society - in particular, that human life holds an inherent value, and that murder is wrong. One of the defining characteristics of a sociopath - and not just using the Webster's dictionary definition but actually thinking about it for more than 2 seconds - is someone who can justify any behavior, no matter how awful. The only argument for Walter NOT being a sociopath is that he has remorse for what he's done (whereas Mike or even Gus obviously do not), but the paths Walt has chosen are far from righteous, and in almost every case have not been "necessary" except for the most delusional.

Jstas

bobman1235 wrote: »

Writing lots of words doesn't make you right.

Cold-blooded murder of an innocent man, whether it can be rationalized as "defense of one's family" in a VERY convoluted way or not, is sociopathic behavior. It is an action that ignores the rules of society - in particular, that human life holds an inherent value, and that murder is wrong. One of the defining characteristics of a sociopath - and not just using the Webster's dictionary definition but actually thinking about it for more than 2 seconds - is someone who can justify any behavior, no matter how awful. The only argument for Walter NOT being a sociopath is that he has remorse for what he's done (whereas Mike or even Gus obviously do not), but the paths Walt has chosen are far from righteous, and in almost every case have not been "necessary" except for the most delusional.

You are ignoring the fact that Walt is flying by the seat of his pants and in many cases has panicked. A panicked person does not use rational thought. It is fight or flight. Given that light, while Walt's decisions are not righteous, they do not have malicious intent.

Walt didn't want to kill the drug dealer in the basement. He kept him alive, befriended him even. Until he realized that the drug dealer did not have the same compassion and wanted to stab him with a broken dinner plate. That's self-preservation, self-defense, not sociopathic behavior.

Walt didn't want Jesse to kill anyone and did his best to talk him out of it. That's not sociopathic behavior. That's compassion for the potential victims and compassion for Jesse to not ruin his life. When Walt realized that Jesse was not going to listen, he went to stop him. But he arrived too late and the wheels were already in motion. Walt saw Jesse was going to get hurt and/or die because the two dealers were pulling weapons so he made a poor decision to run them over. He shot the dealer in the head because he was trying to reach for his weapon. There is no such thing as a fair fight and Walt equalized it by shooting him so he couldn't hurt Walt. Or Jesse for that matter.

Walt deliberated about Gale for a long time and tried to find another way to save Gale and his and Jesse's own skins and there was none that he or Jesse could see. Walt and Jesse had to get rid of Gale to save themselves. They made a poor decision to do so by killing him instead of buying him off or turning him to their side.

They consistently choose the worse possible way of dealing with their problems. That doesn't make them sociopaths. It makes them poor decision makers.

If you are going to try and argue this, you need to look at the entire picture. Not just what you want to.

Lastly, stop slinging insults at me and trying to discredit me by saying things like "Writing lots of words doesn't make you right.". It's insulting and I am rather offended by it. In the interests of Patrick's job of trying to keep the peace I am refraining at great effort from berating you for your transgressions in a public place. If you can't discuss this intelligently without the childish statements then step out of the discussion. Otherwise, come back with something better than "you're wrong 'cause I said so".

Fongolio

Jstas, I do agree with some of your arguments but I think the producers are trying to show that Walt is slowly declining into the same type of person as Gus and Mike and at the same time Jesse is being portrayed as becoming the only moral beacon in a sea of immoral characters. I think Walt has gone far beyond self preservation or even preservation of his family. He likes the power and gets a buzz off it. He likes being Heisenburg. In the last episode he even wore the glasses and hat again in his meeting with Gus in the desert. He wants to think that he's still doing this all for his family but reality is he gets off on it and especially likes the mental chess games with Gus. I don't know if sociopath is the right word yet for Walt but he's certainly ignoring societies rules and norms in order to further his "cause" whatever that may be. As for Skylar, I think they are just trying to show how being in an imoral environment can cause moral decay. Same with her sister. Hank on the other is another character clinging to his morals but also paid a heavy price for Walt's actions. If you total all the people in the show who have been affected or died by Walt's "plan", the list is huge. And I believe they are showing Walt's skin growing thicker and thicker as the series goes on. He is less and less affected personally by all the death and mayhem, and even in my opinion is beginning to really enjoy it. My .02

bobman1235

Jstas wrote:

get over yourself

Jstas wrote:

I don't think you geniuses know exactly what a sociopath is

You bring the "personal attacks" on yourself by being so aggressive every time people try and disagree with you in the least. If you'd just make your points without being a defensive **** there wouldn't be any issue, because you make some great points, especially in that last post. But the idea of YOU being offended after all the crap you sling at everyone else is laughable.