Yard help!

exalted512

Bought a house last October, but the yard is terrible. I just took this picture with my phone a few minutes ago:


As you can see, quite a bit of weeds, and a nice chunk of completely dead grass.

Its St Augustine grass, want to keep it that way, but how do I go about making it look worth a ****?

I've sprayed the weeds with some weed killer i got from home depot, but it didnt seem to work all that great. I'm looking to start on it this weekend, so any advice is great!

Do I need to pull the existing weeds first? I plan on mowing this weekend as well, so I'm guessing it'd be a good idea to pull the weeds first...but I have no idea.

I'm pretty sure I'm going to have to completely remove the dead spot and resod that. I dont think it has a disease or anything. Its pretty much dead in the center and I'm thinking its because of the heat. The spot thats dead is the only spot in the yard that never has shade or not close to our neighbors who would water their yard.

The back yard is in really good shape, so I'm not really worried about that.

I went out and took a few more pics, a close up of the types of weeds and another view of most of the yard.

Pretty sure the weeds in the top right corner are all from the tree, but like I said, I'm not an expert:


Here's the weeds that I think are from the tree:


and these things are everywhere:


Help!
-Cody

concealer404

Bottom picture is dandelions.

Honestly dude? I'll tear it all up and re-seed the entire thing. That's pretty gnarly.

hearingimpared

My lawn was in worse condition when I purchased my house over four years ago.

After spreading week killer, I aerated the ground then seeded it. I covered the entire lawn with this hay mesh that comes in rolls, sorry I can't remember what it is called, which allows the sun and water to come through but not expose the seeds to the elements and also kept the seeds from washing away. It's four years later and I have an almost nice looking lawn. The problem I have here is that the soil is full of clay with a high water table so doing the above is just one step in getting that showcase lawn.

YMMV depending on the elements and it may just work in one year if you have good soil.

What I should have done was to purchase top soil spread it then go through the hoops but the hay mesh really did a nice job.

Jstas

Don't resod, half the time that doesn't even work. Get rid of the weeds, either pull them up or pour vinegar or even witch hazel on them. The vinegar won't keep other stuff from growing. Especially after the first rainfall or a serious watering of teh area to dilute the vinegar after it's done it's job.Then take a rake and tear up all the dead stuff and turn the soil over.

Before you go any farther, find out why that grass is dead. There may be a worm or grub problem. The young worms and larvae and grubs eat the soft roots of the grass. When that happens, the grass can't get water and dies like that. There are chemicals to treat that. you could also use regular salt but the salt will change the pH of the soil so much that nothing will grow for a loooong time. If you are planning on replanting grass, get the chemicals.

Next, you need the following items:

- Several bags of top soil (usually about $1 a bag that covers 30 sq ft 1-2 inches deep)
- 1 roll of deer netting (about $15 at Lowes)
- 1 bag of netting spikes (about $6 at Lowes)
- 1-2 boxes of Scott's Starter Fertilizer (I'm not sure how large that area is)
- 1-2 bales of hay (you can get this at a garden center or find a local farm)
- Enough St Augustine's grass seed to cover the area (I personally prefer Scott's brand stuff, works great and they stand by their products)

Grab your bags of top soil. Enough to cover the area about 3 inches deep with soil. Before you dump it there though, open the bags in a wheel barrow or something and mix in Scott's Starter fertilizer. Then spread it over the bare spot. Next, plant your grass seed. If it's windy out, wet teh soil first so the seed sticks.

Now, take your hay and spread it out covering the area. The hay helps retain moisture, protects the seed from drying out and keeps birds and deer from eating it. Spread the netting over the hay to keep it from blowing away and stake it down the with the stakes.

Once it's all done, water the grass well. Water it daily for 2 weeks and then, after the grass seed sprouts, water daily for another 2 weeks. After that, don't let the seedlings go for more than 2 days without watering or rainfall. In about 4-6 weeks after planting, the grass should be mature and you can remove the netting and mow.

I promise you if you do this right, you will grow grass in that bare spot. Once the new grass has matured, you can spread a weed killer/fertilizer over the entire lawn to get the rest of grass healthy and green. If you call the Scott's hotline, they can give you advice on feeding and watering plans for your climate zone. I'm way out of your zone so any info I have wouldn't help you there.

If the lawn is really dumpy though, you may want to reseed by just dropping new seed in with the old grass and spreading a general fertilizer like a Scott's Turf Builder.

Thee other option is to turn the bare area into a planting area with a tree or a couple shrubberies and some flowers. They don't necessarily need the highest quality soil because they make their own food through those big photosynthesis factories we call leaves.

And yes, for you jerks who feel the need to comment, I know I sound like a Scott's commercial but out of all the products I've used, Scott's has worked the best for me so I'm going to recommend them. If you don't like it, I'm sure you're at least bright enough to know what you can go do with yourself.

hearingimpared

There it is folks the right way to do it! I wish I would have posted the question here when we did my lawn instead of shooting from the hip.

bobman1235

From a weather perspective, WHEN should one start doing this type of stuff, in particular seeding / fertilizing? I have a backyard that I'm hoping to re-do this year but am never sure when to start the project.

Jstas

bobman1235 wrote: »

From a weather perspective, WHEN should one start doing this type of stuff, in particular seeding / fertilizing? I have a backyard that I'm hoping to re-do this year but am never sure when to start the project.

You're in the same climate zone as me. The best rule of thumb is to wait until the Forsythia start blooming. Those are those bushes with the pretty yellow flowers. They usually bloom in later March/early April. Alot of the Interstates have them growing in the center median to reduce headlight glare.

When they bloom, it's usually warm enough that a late frost won't be damaging. But if you put the hay down, it helps protect the seed and young sprouts from frost damage.


And for the record, using the method I posted above, I planted grass a week and a half before Thanksgiving last year and actually had to consider mowing it about 2 weeks before Christmas but the big snow storm we had just before Christmas prevented that.

lectronicjunkie

When I lived in Florida I had St. Augustine grass and I tried all kinds of weed killer and nothing worked. I also had a good size dead spot in the back yard which came from Chinchbugs and tried every type of bug killer for lawns and it didn't work. I finally got Chemlawn to come and treat it. I don't know what they use, but the consumers can't get it. Their chemicals killed all of the Chinchbugs and after a few months of watering regularly the yard looked good again. Putting new sod down is a back killer. St. Augustine grows like a vine along the ground so, it will fill in the bare spots in time.
Those are common broadleaf weeds. If you feel inclined to pull them up by hand then wear some gloves because they have tiny thorns at the base of them. You should fertilize year round.
I hope my two cents helps and good luck.

Jstas

lectronicjunkie has some good points about the bugs.

If you want to pull weeds by hand, get something like this:

http://fiskars.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10001&langId=11151&catalogId=10251&categoryId=10896&productId=11205&page=products

otherwise you will never get the whole dandylion tap root out and they will come back.

Also, one point about the hay, it's grass as well. It also rots. As it decomposes, it can help restore nitrogen to the soil. It's far better than any synthetic product. It's also cheap. Last time I bought hay last year, I paid $6 bucks a bail and covered about 400 square feet with 6 bails. Total, $36. Deer netting was $15 plus $6 for the stakes and I was just over $50. If I got the hay mats from Lowes or Home Depot, to cover that sized area, I was looking at well over $100. You pay for convenience.


Also, a place that has helped me alot and where I learned a good deal of stuff about lawn care, garden care, species identification and trees is this place:

http://www.gardenweb.com

It used to be much more personal but apparently they got bought out. But info is organized well and there are lots of helpful people in the forums and communities.

billbillw

I tried for 4 years in a row to get my back yard looking good. Between drought, tropical storms, more drought, watering bans, more storms and flooding, pinestraw falling, and pin oak leaves, every blade of grass that I've managed to germinate has since died, and then some. Why does growing grass have to be so difficult? I just don't have time to keep up with it all. I've been tempted to pay someone a few grand to come in and sod the whole damn thing, but I'm too cheap. Needless to say, my back yard is nothing to be envious of.

lectronicjunkie

billbillw wrote: »

I tried for 4 years in a row to get my back yard looking good. Between drought, tropical storms, more drought, watering bans, more storms and flooding, pinestraw falling, and pin oak leaves, every blade of grass that I've managed to germinate has since died, and then some. Why does growing grass have to be so difficult? I just don't have time to keep up with it all. I've been tempted to pay someone a few grand to come in and sod the whole damn thing, but I'm too cheap. Needless to say, my back yard is nothing to be envious of.

What type of grass are you dealing with?

Jstas

If you have watering issues in your area but get decent amounts of rainfall often enough, build a rainwater collection system:

http://www.wikihow.com/Build-a-Rainwater-Collection-System

Some "turnkey" solutions:
http://www.tierrapath.com/index.php/Rainwater-Collection-Systems.html

http://www.gardenwatersaver.com/

http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10051&productId=202020147&langId=-1&catalogId=10053&ci_sku=202020147&ci_src=14110944&cm_mmc=shopping-_-googlebase-_-D28X-_-202020147&locStoreNum=6866&marketID=34

http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10051&productId=100663335&langId=-1&catalogId=10053&ci_sku=100663335&ci_src=14110944&cm_mmc=shopping-_-googlebase-_-D28X-_-100663335&locStoreNum=6866&marketID=34

http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_07143395000P?vName=Lawn & Garden&cName=Watering,Hoses&Sprinklers&sName=Watering Accessories&psid=FROOGLE01&sid=IDx20070921x00003a

For a really pretty one: http://www.rainxchange.com/

Your mileage may vary.

And also, from the Great State off Texas, The Texas Manual on Rainwater Harvesting: http://www.twdb.state.tx.us/publications/reports/RainwaterHarvestingManual_3rdedition.pdf

Ricardo

Forget about it. If you want to keep it looking nice, you'll have to maintain, water, mow, fertilize....

Just throw some gravel and have a huge parking space. It is cheaper

billbillw

lectronicjunkie wrote: »

What type of grass are you dealing with?

The original homeowner put down tall fescue, which is not ideal for this area. It really strugles in the summer. Unfortunately, my back yard is surrounded by trees, so its mostly shaded until afternoon, then it is in full sunlight. So there is no ideal grass for my entire yard. I really just need a backyard 'extreme makeover', but that isn't going to happen because our focus is on raising the kids right now.

exalted512

Thanks for the help. Hay is free, the wifey's dad bales hay. I need to mow this weekend, I'll see if I can get one of those weed pullers locally as well.

Weekend after that I'll do what you recommended.

One thing, if I'm adding 3" of top soil, you dont recommend taking out all the old grass so the lawn will be even?
-Cody

Jstas

billbillw wrote: »

The original homeowner put down tall fescue, which is not ideal for this area. It really strugles in the summer. Unfortunately, my back yard is surrounded by trees, so its mostly shaded until afternoon, then it is in full sunlight. So there is no ideal grass for my entire yard. I really just need a backyard 'extreme makeover', but that isn't going to happen because our focus is on raising the kids right now.

Get a sun and shade mix. It will usually have several species of rye grass as well as some versions of fescue. They will do well in direct sun, partial shade and full shade. They aren't always heat tolerant though. Tall Fescue and species like Kentucky Bluegrass are nice and pretty but behave more like plants than grass. They require tons of watering and fertilizing and don't deal with heat well at all.

Then again, most pine trees of any kind have 3 defenses against invading plants. They have a thick canopy that blocks out sunlight, they drop needles that make a thick matte that keeps seeds from taking root and they release chemicals in the soil that prevent germination of seeds. This is why you don't see plants under pine trees unless they are on the edge of a grove. This is also why pine seeds are ejected from their cones so they clear this "no-plants-land" around the parent tree.


The other option would be zoysia grass. It's an invasive species from Southeast Asia but has been cultivated here because it works well for places like golf courses and where climate and soil conditions are not necessarily ideal. But, like every other junk plant we have here that doesn't belong here from Southeast Asia, it becomes a problem for some people. It's creeping tendency means that left unchecked it will over-run many other species. However, because of the creeping characteristics it will cover things like knotty and exposed roots. It is also good for erosion control because it grows and spreads so fast and it's thick matte controls water runoff.

It grows like a weed and grows anywhere. It greens up real nice in the spring and stays green all the way through the season. However, in very heavy shade, like underneath a pine tree, it will never green if it does ever manage to take root at all. It turns brown under extreme drought conditions though and also turns brown during the dormant seasons as well. It's easy to care for but weeds can be a problem and many weed killers out there will kill zoysia grass as well. At least for the season. Normally, it is quite resistant to weeds, bugs and fungi but there are hearty weeds like dandylions, milkweed, and wild onions that can become serious issues.

However, you run a large risk of your neighbors hating you because the stuff is invasive and takes over areas where weaker grass versions grow. A friend from an old job had a full lawn of lush and healthy Kentucky Bluegrass and his neighbor's zoysia grass encroached and destroyed his expensive and beautiful lawn. It doesn't go away either. You can kill it for a season but it'll be back the next year. It doesn't grow from typical root systems. It behaves more like a tulip with a bulb root system. It's not easy to get rid of at all and often you need seriously hardcore herbicides to get rid of it completely. That herbicide treatment usually requires several courses of treatment in the dormant seasons (winter and late fall) and even then doesn't always work completely. Even complete destruction and removal of the lawn and topsoil doesn't eradicate it completely.

In areas like Georgia where the winters are very mild, it may not go dormant at all.

It is easy to take care of though. It doesn't require feeding or watering except under severely compromised conditions like drought.

How do I know so much about zoysia grass? My lawn at the house I just got is zoysia grass. I don't like it but it is so established that 60%+ of the lawn is zoysia grass. So it was a whole "know thy enemy" thing.

Jstas

exalted512 wrote: »

Thanks for the help. Hay is free, the wifey's dad bales hay. I need to mow this weekend, I'll see if I can get one of those weed pullers locally as well.

Weekend after that I'll do what you recommended.

One thing, if I'm adding 3" of top soil, you dont recommend taking out all the old grass so the lawn will be even?
-Cody

Free is the best price!

You can remove the old grass if you want but that's honestly what the tilling will do. You want to tear up the old root system and make sure that any weeds get buried and destroyed so they don't cause a problem. You want to leave the old stuff in there because as it decomposes, it helps with the nitrogen fixing of the soil. But you can condition the poor soil to bring it back to something more desirable as well.

Provided you don't have a bug problem in that bare spot, you can till that bare area. I would rent a powered tiller. That's a large area to do by hand. Then again, if FiL bales hay, he might have a tiller you can borrow too.

But once you get it all torn up, to replenish the soil, get a few bags of dried manure, available at any home improvement store and also get a few bags of peat moss or just straight peat. Mix it in to the soil and hose it down. The manure replenishes nutrients like nitrogen, phosphorous and such. The peat provides organic matter which helps hold on to moisture and creates air spaces so the soil isn't so hard. It promotes root growth. Mix all that in and then follow the instructions above. It will sit higher than the rest of the lawn but as it rains and the soil settles, it will come back down to the height of the rest of the lawn.

The weed puller you can find at any home improvement store. Ace/TrueValue hardware stores carry them and so do most garden centers. Just ask a clerk for one and they should be able to get you the right tool.

Oh and call up LawnDoctor and have them come test your lawn as well as the bare spot. You don't have to get their service but if it does have bugs or a fungus problem, have them treat it. They guarantee the work they do and can help you with reseeding if you like.


Oh and do you mulch or bag? Mulching is better because it returns the nutrient rich grass clippings to the soil. It also makes them much smaller so they break down faster and help with the fixing of the soil. You'll spend less money on fertilizer and mulching also helps with moisture evaporation so you have to water less as well.

exalted512

He has a tiller, but its not for lawns...haha. My dad has one, but he's 4 hours away and requires a riding lawn mower...I'll probably just rent one.

And yes, I have my mower to set up to mulch. I was going to say, yes, I mulch...but thought that would be too forward of me.
-Cody

jimmydep

I have a very thick lush lawn of Fescue type grass, Should I thatch the lawn occasionally, and when is the best time to do that?

billbillw

I'd love some emerald zoysia but that stuff has to be grown through sod or plugs and its expensive. Obviously sod for my 1/3 acre back yard would be pricey. I could plug it, but it then it would be a few seasons before it came in. I'm too busy for that crap anyway. BTW, it does go dormant here in winter. Also, it doesn't really like shade. I'm just going to live with a crappy back yard for the time being.

My neighbors don't give a crap anyway. None of them keep up their yards. I'm lucky if my next door neighbor has her grass cut before it is 12" tall. Even though the county has ordinances against it being more than 6" tall, it is not enforced around us. That's also why I have such a problem with weeds. Her yard is constantly going to seed and blowing over towards us.

Bottom line, we are planning to move in the next couple years. Next house, I will be more picky about the yard and I won't get a yard with 3 pin oak trees and 30 tall pines.

Jstas

jimmydep wrote: »

I have a very thick lush lawn of Fescue type grass, Should I thatch the lawn occasionally, and when is the best time to do that?

Thatching shouldn't necessarily have to be done. Thatch builds up when the dead plant matter doesn't decompose fast enough and the root systems of the plant branch out excessively without being able to sprout new plants. This is usually caused by one of two things. Either the soil is compacted and doesn't allow air and water in to start the decomposition process or it is being over fertilized.

The actual thatch is not dead plant matter. Thatch is the root system of the lawn. Your grass will sprout the roots out which then populate another section of lawn and sprout a need grass plant and makes your lawn thicker. The thatch can get so thick though that dead plant matter builds up on top of it and prevents sunlight, moisture and air from getting to the ground.

What de-thatching does is it tears out those root systems and forces new plant growth to grow at the base of the plant. Unless you have a thick carpet of brown plant matter with lush pile of green on top of that, thatching is only going to damage your lawn.

Thatching is destructive and traumatic to your lawn and really shouldn't be done on growing plants. In other words, don't do it in spring when the grass is starting to come back. You can do it in the summer and you should be fine.

But aeration is more likely what you need to do. You can aerate several times a year. There are core and spike aerators. Spike aerators jab a hole in the ground. Core aerators jab a twisted cone in to the ground pull out a small plug of soil and drop on top the dirt leaving a hole behind. Aerating is kind of like turning the soil without actually turning the soil and killing the plants. It's very beneficial. What the little holes in the ground do is pierce the thatch and top layer of soil so that air and water can get down below and start the decomposition process which will reduce thatch.

You can tell if you need to de-thatch your lawn by looking at the ground. Get down on your hands and knees and get your face close to the ground. Can you see dirt beyond the thatch without having to pull and pry thatch out of the way? If so then no, you don't need to de-thatch. If have to move material out of the way, how much material do you need to move? If the matted thatch is more than an inch thick you probably should consider de-thatching.

However, I would recommend aerating the lawn first and seeing if that helps the situation. Thatch will usually take care of itself if the lawn is healthy. Also, mow the grass often with a mulching mower so the clippings stay small and decompose quickly. If you do that and aerate the lawn often, your lawn will be healthy and green. It's just like you it needs air water and food.

Jstas

billbillw wrote: »

I'd love some emerald zoysia but that stuff has to be grown through sod or plugs and its expensive. Obviously sod for my 1/3 acre back yard would be pricey. I could plug it, but it then it would be a few seasons before it came in. I'm too busy for that crap anyway. BTW, it does go dormant here in winter. Also, it doesn't really like shade. I'm just going to live with a crappy back yard for the time being.

My neighbors don't give a crap anyway. None of them keep up their yards. I'm lucky if my next door neighbor has her grass cut before it is 12" tall. Even though the county has ordinances against it being more than 6" tall, it is not enforced around us. That's also why I have such a problem with weeds. Her yard is constantly going to seed and blowing over towards us.

Bottom line, we are planning to move in the next couple years. Next house, I will be more picky about the yard and I won't get a yard with 3 pin oak trees and 30 tall pines.

Well, if you want to plant zoysia grass and you have a shady lawn, plant the Meyer strain. It's very robust and grows well in all light conditions even though it can take some time to get established. It's very cold tolerant too and may not brown in your climate zones. Then again, your climate zone is more conducive to a wider variety of grass that just wouldn't survive a frost let alone a winter up here.

Conradicles

Thanks Cody!!! After seeing yours I feel much better about mine!

Lawns are hard work and take too much money. Hope you get it fixed up and enjoy.

comfortablycurt

That looks fantastic compared to my yard.

My $.02? Don't worry about it.;) It's just grass. Having the weeds there just makes it a more diverse eco-system, and is really much healthier in the long run.

Dandelions? They add some much needed color to the endless sea of green. I think they look very nice myself.




Like I said...that's just my $.02




All that being said...here's some advice.

I can see that you have at least one tree on your property...and I'm guessing there may be others. Many people contract with one company to fertilize their lawn, and contract with a separate company to fertilize their trees/bushes etc. If this is the case for you, make sure that these two companies are aware of each other.

Many trees have been killed due to over fertilization because of this. One company comes in and fertilizes the lawn(which also fertilizes the tree through direct contact), and then another company comes in and fertilizes the tree. This is giving the tree a double dose of fertilizer, which can be very bad for it, and even kill it.


If you've got any questions about tree care or anything like that, feel free to ask me. I'm an apprentice under an ISA Certified Arborist(my brother), and proper tree care is my area of expertise. Later this year, I'll be getting my certification too. The only reason I haven't yet, is because ISA requires 5 years of practical experience before you can become certified. My 5 years is just about up now, so I'll be getting certified soon.

NJPOLKER

John,
I need you to head a hundred miles north to visit me for a weekend.

jimmydep

Thanks for the detailed explanation John. I think I'll aerate the lawn, eventhough I don't have any problems at the moment and my grass is green and beautiful.

Jimmy

Sherardp

I'm going to use some of your ideas Jstas. Very good information, thanks for sharing. I have a small dead spot in my lawn too, and would like to see what I can do with it.

Polkersince85

If the grass you have is St. Augustine, then it will be dormant until about mid April. IMO, spot treat the weeds with Roundup or generic from Walmart (cheaper). Don't mow it first, let the Roundup work for a couple weeks. In the meantime, get a product with Atrizine. It won't hurt the Augustine but will kill the weeds and prevent return. Don't put it under the tree drip line or shrubs you want.

Take a soil sample to your extention agent for the ph level and treat with lime as recommended. Don't fertilize until the grass greens up. When the grass greens up, then replant the bare areas. If you plant too soon, it won't grow.

I've got centipede, which is a cousin of Augustine and I use Scotts Weed and Feed for Southern lawns. Too strong cheap fertilizer will kill your grass. Remove the old dead thatch from St. Augustine and Centipede with a yard rake because it will choke out. Also use a bagger when mowing to remove the clippings. Mulching St. Augustine is not good for it.

superjunior

The only EFFICIENT way to do this, unless you have time to monkey with your lawn every day is to rip it all out and start from scratch. Soil and everything, get rid of the weeds insects and bad dirt. Start new with a good 4-6 inch base of fresh soil and have it graded for drainage accordingly. Plant the seed of your choice that will do well in your climate - forget sod. Topdress with straw or peetmoss. Trying to bring a ratty looking lawn up to par by patching and addressing the problem "at hand" is just like keeping up an old car - maintenance! The lawn will be spotty and chemically dependent.

dave shepard

Pull the weeds out then weed and feed,lime the **** out of it that will sweeten the soil again I would and have used the pelletized lime. You can also go to the local golf course and ask their lawn guys what they use (I forget) they use stuff that grows in nothing flat. I would also use Ironite (at least once a week for the first month and every other after that) on it that will get your grass greeeeen just be careful not to get it on your concrete or siding because it will look rusty because of the iron in it.

steveinaz

Lay rock, and go watch Sportcenter on ESPN.