Okay, I Have a Problem: The RTi8's Were Canceled...

Mike LoManaco

AsSiMiLaTeD wrote: »

If you intend to upgrade down the road AND intent to run those 12s in full without cutting off their low end then the 12s are a great choice.

If you never intend to run them as full range speakers, then they're still not a very good choice in my opinion, because those RTi12s with no low end are basically a set of RTi6 bookshelfs....just doesn't make sense to me.

But even though the 12's wouldn't be running full range in the HT and will be crossed over, wouldn't I still get some mid bass thump from them above the crossover point? Wouldn't they be at least somewhat effective even if they're crossed over?

Perhaps "80Hz" wouldn't be the correct crossover point for the 12's then...this can always be adjusted...;)

Mike LoManaco

xcapri79 wrote: »

No one keeps their receiver forever, but speakers may live with us for a much longer period of time. The RTi12's are a better long term choice for an incrementally higher price.

I think this may be the overall final viewpoint here; but I'm not certain...:eek:

mdaudioguy

xcap owns stock in RTi12s- check it out.
Actually, I don't care what you buy. I can only offer you opinions and suggestions. Good luck with your purchase.

Mike LoManaco

mdaudioguy wrote: »

Actually, I don't care what you buy.

That's not cool...:(

Mike LoManaco

xcapri79 wrote: »

Mike, I have been listening to music all evening on my RTi12's to know what you are missing.:D

LOL.

I appreciate all your input with this, Capri; I just want to be sure the $800-plus for the 12's are worth it compared to trying to shop the 10's for like $200 something less...

comfortablycurt

Assimilated has made some very valid points. If you were planning on using the 12's for mostly 2 channel listening through your 605, I wouldn't really recommend them, because driving those extra woofers would take a lot more oomph from your AVR. In a HT setting though, with them crossed over at 80hz or so, it won't really put a whole lot more strain on it.

To answer some of your other questions, yes you'll have punchier mid-range and mid-bass with the 12's, as opposed to the 5's(IMO). The three 7" woofers would primarily be taking care of midbass between 80 and 150 hz or so, with the upper MTM array taking care of everything above.

In my opinion, the 12's also have a smoother sounding high end than the other RTi series speakers. I would have to guess that's due to the D'appolito(mid-range/tweeter/midrange) array that Polk utilized for the 12's.

That also makes me wonder if they ever experimented with a D'appolito array for the RTi8/A5's.





One thing to keep in mind, is that the addition of these RTi12's(if that's the route you go) is going to make your need for a better sub MUCH more apparent. The 12's are capable of producing some pretty prodigious bass on their own, so it takes a beefier sub to keep up. Either way, I'm sure they'll make a much appreciated improvement until you can afford that upgrade.

Mike LoManaco

comfortablycurt wrote: »

Assimilated has made some very valid points. If you were planning on using the 12's for mostly 2 channel listening through your 605, I wouldn't really recommend them, because driving those extra woofers would take a lot more oomph from your AVR. In a HT setting though, with them crossed over at 80hz or so, it won't really put a whole lot more strain on it.

Thanks, 'Curt.

Indeed, I will be crossing them over at 80Hz, unless another frequency is recommended for them. They won't be running full range in this application.

To answer some of your other questions, yes you'll have punchier mid-range and mid-bass with the 12's, as opposed to the 5's(IMO). The three 7" woofers would primarily be taking care of midbass between 80 and 150 hz or so, with the upper MTM array taking care of everything above.

My immediate concern was whether the 12's would still dish out powerful mid bass and mid range even though they would be powered by something like a 605; in other words, since I'd be crossing them over, wouldn't I still get good mid range from these? Which I believe you addressed here.

I believe I have concluded that the RTi A5's are just not a value for my particular budget; they would actually come out to be more expensive, as a pair, as compared to the price Frys gave me for the 12's. I realize they're from a new series as compared to the 12's, but still...

One thing to keep in mind, is that the addition of these RTi12's(if that's the route you go) is going to make your need for a better sub MUCH more apparent. The 12's are capable of producing some pretty prodigious bass on their own, so it takes a beefier sub to keep up. Either way, I'm sure they'll make a much appreciated improvement until you can afford that upgrade.

I understand your views here; makes sense I suppose. But would that apparent need and "hole" in the sub area with my PSW10 really be all that huge given the fact that I will be crossing the 12's over?

Thanks for your assistance and insight here.

comfortablycurt

Mike LoManaco wrote: »

Thanks, 'Curt.

Indeed, I will be crossing them over at 80Hz, unless another frequency is recommended for them. They won't be running full range in this application.

80hz is generally the best starting point in my experience. You can tailor it to suit your specific setup/tastes, but I've always found 80 to be best.

My immediate concern was whether the 12's would still dish out powerful mid bass and mid range even though they would be powered by something like a 605; in other words, since I'd be crossing them over, wouldn't I still get good mid range from these? Which I believe you addressed here.

Yes, you'll still get great sounding mid-range with them. Better, IMO, than you'd get from the RTiA5's.

I believe I have concluded that the RTi A5's are just not a value for my particular budget; they would actually come out to be more expensive, as a pair, as compared to the price Frys gave me for the 12's. I realize they're from a new series as compared to the 12's, but still...

Just because they're newer, doesn't mean they're better. The RTi12's were the top floorstander in their series, where as the A5's are the entry level floorstander in their series. I've heard both RTi's and RTiA's plenty of times, and honestly there isn't that much of a sonic difference between them from what I personally heard. The RTiA's were perhaps a touch smoother in the high end, and slightly warmer in the mid-range, but that could have been due to a number of other factors as well.

I personally much prefer the aesthetics of the RTiA's, but that's not always the important thing(it's not for me).

I understand your views here; makes sense I suppose. But would that apparent need and "hole" in the sub area with my PSW10 really be all that huge given the fact that I will be crossing the 12's over?

It's not that there would be a hole exactly. The RTi12's would easily be able to produce bass well below their 80hz crossover point, and the PSW10 would be able to produce all of the frequencies up to 80hz or 120 hz or whatever XO point you have it at. It's just that the PSW10 is Polks most entry level sub, and the RTi12's are the top dog of their mid-level series. The 12's can produce some nice bass on their own, and may slightly overpower the PSW10 during some passages. Like I said before though, I'm sure that's a disadvantage that you'll have absolutely no trouble living with until an upgraded sub comes along.

Mike LoManaco

comfortablycurt wrote: »

80hz is generally the best starting point in my experience. You can tailor it to suit your specific setup/tastes, but I've always found 80 to be best.

Indeed; I have always found 80Hz to be ideal as well.

As for the 12's, this may change because this speaker can handle much lower frequencies than many of the bookshelves I am used to; in the case of the 12's, would it still make sense to cross over at 80 because I am using a sub?

Yes, you'll still get great sounding mid-range with them. Better, IMO, than you'd get from the RTiA5's.

Excellent.

Just because they're newer, doesn't mean they're better. The RTi12's were the top floorstander in their series, where as the A5's are the entry level floorstander in their series. I've heard both RTi's and RTiA's plenty of times, and honestly there isn't that much of a sonic difference between them from what I personally heard. The RTiA's were perhaps a touch smoother in the high end, and slightly warmer in the mid-range, but that could have been due to a number of other factors as well.

Indeed, I know the 12's were the flagship of the discontinued line; there was just something about having the "newest" speaker was a bit of temptation -- but at the end of the day, the purchase just doesn't make sense...the A5's are, everywhere I have seen, more than $400 each new, which is just outrageous IMO for an entry in a series (even though the RTi A's are already a "step up" from others in Polk's new line).

Mike LoManaco

It's not that there would be a hole exactly. The RTi12's would easily be able to produce bass well below their 80hz crossover point, and the PSW10 would be able to produce all of the frequencies up to 80hz or 120 hz or whatever XO point you have it at. It's just that the PSW10 is Polks most entry level sub, and the RTi12's are the top dog of their mid-level series. The 12's can produce some nice bass on their own, and may slightly overpower the PSW10 during some passages. Like I said before though, I'm sure that's a disadvantage that you'll have absolutely no trouble living with until an upgraded sub comes along.

Gotcha.

comfortablycurt

Mike LoManaco wrote: »

As for the 12's, this may change because this speaker can handle much lower frequencies than many of the bookshelves I am used to; in the case of the 12's, would it still make sense to cross over at 80 because I am using a sub?

It definitely wouldn't hurt to play around with different settings. Try setting them for 60-70 hz and see how it sounds. Every room is unique, and you'll never know how it sounds until you try it.

IMO, a subs XO should always be set to 120 hz though. In a Dolby soundtrack, there is LFE content all the way up to 120hz anyway, and it's part of the soundtrack. Setting the crossover point lower than that will result in you missing out on information. Ask Kuntasensei for more info on that topic though. He's the Audyssey/HT wiz around here.;)

Indeed, I know the 12's were the flagship of the discontinued line; there was just something about having the "newest" speaker was a bit of temptation -- but at the end of the day, the purchase just doesn't make sense...the A5's are, everywhere I have seen, more than $400 each new, which is just outrageous IMO for an entry in a series (even though the RTi A's are already a "step up" from others in Polk's new line).

A lot of people have spent a lot of money that they really didn't need to, just so they could have the newest and the best. The same can be said of just about any market. Take new cars for example...you can buy a year or two old car that is going to be every bit as nice as a brand new one, and save about a third of your money.

The same is true of AVR's, speakers and TV's etc. Most of the time, the model from last year or a couple years ago is every bit as nice as the most up to date model, aside from a couple minuscule new features that most people don't even utilize anyway...lol...Here again, the model from a couple years ago can be had for a third to half off the cost of a new model.

This is even more true with speakers than it is with AVR's TV's etc. A speaker is still a speaker. They work in exactly the same way that speakers have been working in for a very long time. Upgrading from the RTi's to the RTiA's wouldn't be considered a change in the sense of going from a DVD player with Dolby Digital sound, to a Blu-ray player with Dolby TrueHD. The RTi's and the RTiA's still function in exactly the same way. Loudspeaker technology doesn't evolve in quite the same way as AVR technology, or soundtrack decoding technology.

cnh

I have to say RTI-12s, hands down....upgrade the AVR/power later! For now just run them crossed over at 80hz and not a full range speaker on that 605...get a sub upgrade and let it do the 'work' until you can address the AvR. Really..it's a no brainer....Don't think so much!

BUY THE 12s! You will NOT regret it! And they have great resale value!

cnh

cnh

comfortablycurt wrote: »

It definitely wouldn't hurt to play around with different settings. Try setting them for 60-70 hz and see how it sounds. Every room is unique, and you'll never know how it sounds until you try it.

IMO, a subs XO should always be set to 120 hz though. In a Dolby soundtrack, there is LFE content all the way up to 120hz anyway, and it's part of the soundtrack. Setting the crossover point lower than that will result in you missing out on information. Ask Kuntasensei for more info on that topic though. He's the Audyssey/HT wiz around here.;)







A lot of people have spent a lot of money that they really didn't need to, just so they could have the newest and the best. The same can be said of just about any market. Take new cars for example...you can buy a year or two old car that is going to be every bit as nice as a brand new one, and save about a third of your money.

The same is true of AVR's, speakers and TV's etc. Most of the time, the model from last year or a couple years ago is every bit as nice as the most up to date model, aside from a couple minuscule new features that most people don't even utilize anyway...lol...Here again, the model from a couple years ago can be had for a third to half off the cost of a new model.

This is even more true with speakers than it is with AVR's TV's etc. A speaker is still a speaker. They work in exactly the same way that speakers have been working in for a very long time. Upgrading from the RTi's to the RTiA's wouldn't be considered a change in the sense of going from a DVD player with Dolby Digital sound, to a Blu-ray player with Dolby TrueHD. The RTi's and the RTiA's still function in exactly the same way. Loudspeaker technology doesn't evolve in quite the same way as AVR technology, or soundtrack decoding technology.

Curt, are you talking about me? That's exactly what I did a few years ago..I bought a 2 year old Chevy that still had a one year warranty for Half the new car price. My wife..yeah..she got the 'new' car!

cnh

Mike LoManaco

Thanks for all the input in this thread, fellas; thanks to your insight, I'll return to Frys tomorrow and pick up the 12's they have on hold.

leroyjr1

Just buy some damn speakers already..;)

Mike LoManaco

leroyjr1 wrote: »

Just buy some damn speakers already..;)

Indeed...:D

comfortablycurt

I say you go camp out in front of Fry's and wait for the doors to open. That way you can get your shiny new RTi12's as soon as possible, and get back home and start enjoying your new investment.;)

Curt, are you talking about me? That's exactly what I did a few years ago..I bought a 2 year old Chevy that still had a one year warranty for Half the new car price. My wife..yeah..she got the 'new' car!

cnh

Exactly. Buying a brand new car has it's perks, but it's really one of the worst investments you can make. You can find a very low mileage year or two old model for substantially less, that's going to be every bit as nice as a brand new one.

Mike LoManaco

Okay Guys.

I returned to Frys and purchased the 12's, but I have to tell ya...these things were absolutely massive in their boxes. So big, in fact, we simply couldn't put them in our car at all. Because of this, I had to arrange for the store to deliver them, which tacked on another $60.

I'm having reservations about the purchase now, once more...first of all, were these things really worth $400 each, plus high state tax, and then another 60 for delivery? And given the sheer size of these towers, I am beginning to suspect my Onkyo 605 simply won't have enough juice for these things, even running crossed over...

Is it absolutely certain that the 605 can provide ample current for the RTi12's -- not, of course, to power them at their peak capabilities -- or will this be a problem? The size of the speakers frightened me in this regard; I'm thinking perhaps the 10's, for $600 or so online, would be better matched for my AVR.

Mike LoManaco

comfortablycurt wrote: »

Buying a brand new car has it's perks, but it's really one of the worst investments you can make.

This is absolutely true; I know, as I am on my fifth brand new car -- and nice ones at that -- and it really does feel like you're pissing your cash away. Don't get me wrong, nothing beats spending that time in your driveway with the soap, bucket, hose and Tire Wet and doing a good full-blown detailing by hand, but it really is a very bad investment.

cnh

Mike LoManaco wrote: »

Okay Guys.

I returned to Frys and purchased the 12's, but I have to tell ya...these things were absolutely massive in their boxes. So big, in fact, we simply couldn't put them in our car at all. Because of this, I had to arrange for the store to deliver them, which tacked on another $60.

I'm having reservations about the purchase now, once more...first of all, were these things really worth $400 each, plus high state tax, and then another 60 for delivery? And given the sheer size of these towers, I am beginning to suspect my Onkyo 605 simply won't have enough juice for these things, even running crossed over...

Is it absolutely certain that the 605 can provide ample current for the RTi12's -- not, of course, to power them at their peak capabilities -- or will this be a problem? The size of the speakers frightened me in this regard; I'm thinking perhaps the 10's, for $600 or so online, would be better matched for my AVR.

Are 'they' worth it?? Mike, you're getting the flagship RTI speaker for half-price 'new' with a 5 year warranty! You must drive your wife crazy...

cnh

nhhiep

$400 for the Rti12? I randomly see Fry's has it for 350. I almost bought the new RtiA9 for 350 on blackfriday, if I didn't score the Rti8 for $99 each already.

ohhh yeah, the new A9 looks so beautiful and massive. I may score it if I see that deal again because I hate the overly bright tweeter of the rti8. I heard that they tone it down a little in the A series

Mike LoManaco

I NEVER saw Frys have the RTi12's for $350...

wutadumsn23

Mike LoManaco wrote: »

I NEVER saw Frys have the RTi12's for $350...

May have been a local thing Mike, every store is different. Just because you didn't see it, didn't mean it didn't happen, lol. They had a 63" "open box" Panny plasma at my local Huppins for $1,300 that I had a hard time walking away from, I'm sure that deal wasn't at any other Huppins.
Have a good one man.
-Jeff

Mike LoManaco

wutadumsn23 wrote: »

May have been a local thing Mike, every store is different. Just because you didn't see it, didn't mean it didn't happen, lol. They had a 63" "open box" Panny plasma at my local Huppins for $1,300 that I had a hard time walking away from, I'm sure that deal wasn't at any other Huppins.
Have a good one man.
-Jeff

I'm not saying it didn't happen; I just assumed he meant he saw it on their site, which would suggest everything they have in stock at a given time, as then you provide the particular store on the site via search...

That Panny would have been sweeeeeeet....now that's a screen...:eek:

I never heard of "Huppins"...what part of the country are you in -- or are you outside the U.S.?

EDIT: I see now you're in Washington state, correct? Or is that DC? I never saw one of their stores.

wutadumsn23

I am in WA. state, we have a Huppins HiFi here, it is Onecall.com's "outlet store" They have a limited selection, but can order anything from the site and have it shipped there for pickup, or delivered to your door. It is a pretty cool store, but is somewhat small, I tell you what though, their speaker room is packed to the gills, and Polk is very well represented. I am supposed to be getting my 60" Sony back from the shop today all new and whatnot. If the picture is fixed I am going to try to sell it to help fund my 65" Panny plasma I am getting soon.

-Jeff

wutadumsn23

xcapri79 wrote: »

They are larger than the LSi25's.

Dang, I had no idea they were that big, lol.

-Jeff

wutadumsn23

That is impressive, never seen them in real life myself. I know when I got my new TSi 500's I was surprised that they were a bit bigger than my Monitor 70's. Apples to oranges I know, but it still surprised me.

-Jeff

Mike LoManaco

Thanks for all the replies, guys, and thank you Capri for the "RTi Club" welcome!

My 12's come today, direct to the new house, so I'll check back in and let everyone know how they look out of their packaging; with a thick work load, I won't be able to get the system installed until after the weekend, probably, because the rest of our stuff gets moved on Friday.

leroyjr1

Post some pics.

Menasor

leroyjr1 wrote: »

Post some pics.

Agreed. Pics!