System Warm Up

organ

dorokusai wrote: »

I prefer all my gear warmed up, SS or tube and myself lubed up.

LOL:D! Careful, I think lubes act as conductors.

jaxwired

I think there is some confusion here. I don't think "standby" on solid state amps is the same thing as a tube amp. On tube amps standby will keep the tubes warm. On a solid state amp, this term is usually just referring to a state where the amplifier can wake itself up with a remote control command or 12v trigger.

My NAD C275 has a power switch in the back and a "standby" power button in the front. I leave the back switch on all the time and turn the amp on and off with the standby button in the front. So the amp is technically always powered on, but it is cold as ice until I punch the front panel standby button...

hearingimpared

jaxwired wrote: »

I think there is some confusion here. I don't think "standby" on solid state amps is the same thing as a tube amp. On tube amps standby will keep the tubes warm. On a solid state amp, this term is usually just referring to a state where the amplifier can wake itself up with a remote control command or 12v trigger.

My NAD C275 has a power switch in the back and a "standby" power button in the front. I leave the back switch on all the time and turn the amp on and off with the standby button in the front. So the amp is technically always powered on, but it is cold as ice until I punch the front panel standby button...

The reason the shut off button is on the back is so that the amp can remain with current feeding all the circuits. I don't believe it will get warm or hot to touch until a signal is applied. I know my NAD AVR is only warm when a signal is applied, that is when the internal fans really kick in.

Again, solid state gear manufacturers have recognized the merits of leaving the components with power applied to extend the life of the unit as well as avoiding a warm up time. It has been done by high end manufacturers for years and in my experience since the early '80s.

jaxwired

hearingimpared wrote: »

The reason the shut off button is on the back is so that the amp can remain with current feeding all the circuits. I don't believe it will get warm or hot to touch until a signal is applied. I know my NAD AVR is only warm when a signal is applied, that is when the internal fans really kick in.

Again, solid state gear manufacturers have recognized the merits of leaving the components with power applied to extend the life of the unit as well as avoiding a warm up time. It has been done by high end manufacturers for years and in my experience since the early '80s.

If you are leaving the rear power switch of a solid state amp on, but turning the amp off via the front panel "standby" switch, you are not "keeping it warm" in anyway. You are only leaving power for the 12v trigger. Nothing is getting power and the amp will require full warm up time.

To leave an SS amp ready to go and all warmed up, you must leave it fully on. You don't need a signal to keep it warmed up, just leave it on. It will, of course get hotter with a signal because it's working harder to drive the speakers, but it's still warmed up even without the signal.

hearingimpared

jaxwired wrote: »

If you are leaving the rear power switch of a solid state amp on, but turning the amp off via the front panel "standby" switch, you are not "keeping it warm" in anyway. You are only leaving power for the 12v trigger. Nothing is getting power and the amp will require full warm up time.

To leave an SS amp ready to go and all warmed up, you must leave it fully on. You don't need a signal to keep it warmed up, just leave it on. It will, of course get hotter with a signal because it's working harder to drive the speakers, but it's still warmed up even without the signal.

Tagged! I stand corrected.:) However, I still stand by my remarks about leaving solid state gear on 24/7.

Good catch jax!

jaxwired

wow. you're a good man. I'm impressed.

rubin

When I power up my ss amps I notice a 3-5 volt drop for about 1 or 2 seconds on the panamax.

heiney9

rubin wrote: »

When I power up my ss amps I notice a 3-5 volt drop for about 1 or 2 seconds on the panamax.

Totally normal and why some argue to leave the gear on all the time. That in-rush of current to charge the caps etc, some feel could lessen the life of a component. Same thing happens when I turn on my TV. Not sure I believe it actually shortens a components life cycle significantly. But surely one can see that turning a component off/on 3-4 times a day should be avoided if possible.

H9

jaxwired

heiney9 wrote: »

Totally normal and why some argue to leave the gear on all the time. That in-rush of current to charge the caps etc, some feel could lessen the life of a component. Same thing happens when I turn on my TV. Not sure I believe it actually shortens a components life cycle. But surely one can see that turning a component off/on 3-4 times a day should be avoided if possible.

H9

Makes sense to me. Ever notice how incandescent light bulbs almost always blow out when you turn them on, not when they are already on? Same thing.

Long time ago I read that there are light bulbs in NY City subway that haven't blown for decades because they never turn off.

inspiredsports

I'm in the "leave it on 24/7" camp with the exception of tube gear which I turn off if I won't be listening within the next hour.

One thing that I personally believe is critically important is that you have a decent power conditioner in front of your equipment to smooth out power peaks and troughs. Power variations may be equally as damaging as the repeated on/off cycles mentioned in previous posts.

jaxwired

I do have a power conditioner. I plug all my equipment into it except my amp. I don't trust it not to limit current. I'd rather take my chances with the wall. It's a nice wall.

heiney9

Funny thing happened last night while watching TV. My halogen light randomly got a little brighter and at the same time a warning light popped up on my power cond. which also regulates incoming/outgoing voltage. I had a voltage surge up to 128 volts and the cond. was trimming the line for all the components to keep it around 121-122 volts. This cond. stayed for over an hour.

This does happen fairly often in the summer. Over voltage can be harmful to components as well and so can under voltage.

H9

inspiredsports

jaxwired wrote: »

I do have a power conditioner. I plug all my equipment into it except my amp. I don't trust it not to limit current. I'd rather take my chances with the wall. It's a nice wall.

This is a great point and one I have thought about over and over. I know it can be a challenge with ultra high power amps, but my gear averages 20% and never exceeds 40% through my APC H10 so I've left the amps protected.

I have a dedicated circuit at the breaker box with a PS Audio Power Port Premier outlet so my power is fairly clean to start with (noisewise). I've not been able to detect diminished sound at up to 95db listening levels, but I'm thinking at extremely high levels it may create a problem. For my listening levels I just feel safer keeping the voltage trainsients out of my amps.

rubin

heiney9 wrote: »

Totally normal and why some argue to leave the gear on all the time. That in-rush of current to charge the caps etc, some feel could lessen the life of a component. Same thing happens when I turn on my TV. Not sure I believe it actually shortens a components life cycle significantly. But surely one can see that turning a component off/on 3-4 times a day should be avoided if possible.

H9

On/off several times a day would be a bad thing.I believe turning on for a listening session be it 2-3-4-hours or all day, then turning it off untill the next time (next day or whatever) is the best choice for long life.In other words on/off just once a day.

steveinaz

"Standby" on my Benchmark is definitely keeping it warmed up, simply touching the top of the pre will verify this. Standby operates differently on different equipment.

heiney9

rubin wrote: »

On/off several times a day would be a bad thing.I believe turning on for a listening session be it 2-3-4-hours or all day, then turning it off untill the next time (next day or whatever) is the best choice for long life.In other words on/off just once a day.

Actually if you know you are going to be having a listening session several times over the week, it's actually better to leave things powered up. My amp has been on since Saturday because I know I will get some listening time in this week. Running it all the time in the end is still better than on/off. I obviously don't leave my tubes on when I'm not home even though they could benefit as well.

You have to juggle the long term benefits of leaving components on vs. turning them off and on all the time. But there is no extra wear leaving a SS piece on constantly and in the long run, like a light bulb it's better.

How much better vs. the cost of electricity, safety, etc........is up to the user.

H9

rubin

heiney9 wrote: »

Actually if you know you are going to be having a listening session several times over the week, it's actually better to leave things powered up. My amp has been on since Saturday because I know I will get some listening time in this week. Running it all the time in the end is still better than on/off. I obviously don't leave my tubes on when I'm not home even though they could benefit as well.

You have to juggle the long term benefits of leaving components on vs. turning them off and on all the time. But there is no extra wear leaving a SS piece on constantly and in the long run, like a light bulb it's better.

How much better vs. the cost of electricity, safety, etc........is up to the user.

H9

If using several times a week I agree leave it on.I only listen twice a week 4 to 5 hours each time.

rubin

jaxwired wrote: »

I do have a power conditioner. I plug all my equipment into it except my amp. I don't trust it not to limit current. I'd rather take my chances with the wall. It's a nice wall.

I know what you mean.My rig is fed by 2 dedicated 15 amp circuts.I use two panamax p/c, they each have a 15 amp breaker as well.The amps are pluged into one conditioner,that's all.So I've got 15 amps to run both amplifiers.The amplifiers each have a 6 amp main fuse, so all is well.

Hillbilly61

I keep my SS equipment turned on all of the time, unless I am spending extended time away from home. Never thought about current inrush, but was doing it to avoid eventual thermal cracking of some component. Various ceramics or plastics that make up the shell of many components will eventually crack if gone through enough heat/cool cycles.

That is often the cause behind many types of failed SS equipment, particularly computers as they often get turned on/off. When a crack forms, you turn it on and things are fine for a few minutes until the heat opens the crack, causing the unit to fail or behave very poorly.

heiney9

jaxwired wrote: »

I do have a power conditioner. I plug all my equipment into it except my amp. I don't trust it not to limit current. I'd rather take my chances with the wall. It's a nice wall.

My amp is plugged into my conditioner and I have had no ill effects at all, and I'm painstakingly anal about it. Of course not all conditioners are created equal nor will they all have the same synergy with all components.

Best advice is to try it both ways to see if there is a difference.

H9

P.s this is what the manual states for my amp, but I still like having the voltage regulated as well as some surge protection even though it's no necessay according to the designer

The power supply has been improved with half-again more power supply capacitors with twice the voltage ratings, giving lower ESR figures. Also the power supply incorporates much improved line noise filtering in both differential and common mode, which filters out incoming noise and reduces noise emission by the amplifier.

The amplifier is powered by a toroidal transformer which charges 120,000 uF capacitance. This unregulated supply feeds the output transistors only with a full power ripple of about .3 volt. The power draw of this system is constant regardless of the music playing through the amplifier. As such, it does not depend on a high quality AC outlet or special power cords, since the dynamic performance does not create a variation in AC line draw. If the AC line is running low, the output stage will bias to a higher current level by way of compensation.

The amplifier is stable into any load impedance or reactance including a direct.
The Aleph 30 is impervious to electrostatic shock at the input and dead shorts at the output. You can safely plug and unplug inputs and outputs while the amplifier is running. (Do not try this with other products).

rubin

heiney9 wrote: »

My amp is plugged into my conditioner and I have had no ill effects at all, and I'm painstakingly anal about it. Of course not all conditioners are created equal nor will they all have the same synergy with all components.

Best advice is to try it both ways to see if there is a difference.

H9

P.s this is what the manual states for my amp, but I still like having the voltage regulated as well as some surge protection even though it's no necessay according to the designer

The power supply has been improved with half-again more power supply capacitors with twice the voltage ratings, giving lower ESR figures. Also the power supply incorporates much improved line noise filtering in both differential and common mode, which filters out incoming noise and reduces noise emission by the amplifier.

The amplifier is powered by a toroidal transformer which charges 120,000 uF capacitance. This unregulated supply feeds the output transistors only with a full power ripple of about .3 volt. The power draw of this system is constant regardless of the music playing through the amplifier. As such, it does not depend on a high quality AC outlet or special power cords, since the dynamic performance does not create a variation in AC line draw. If the AC line is running low, the output stage will bias to a higher current level by way of compensation.

The amplifier is stable into any load impedance or reactance including a direct.
The Aleph 30 is impervious to electrostatic shock at the input and dead shorts at the output. You can safely plug and unplug inputs and outputs while the amplifier is running. (Do not try this with other products).

Got'cha beat H9,each of my amps has 128,000 uf hehehe

heiney9

rubin wrote: »

Got'cha beat H9,each of my amps has 128,000 uf hehehe

Mind you mine is for 30wpc, put mine up against your's anytime, anyplace ;):).

heiney9

More recommendations from the manufacturer that it does in fact make a difference between stone cold and fully hot operation.

The amplifier draws about 200 watts from the wall at all times, and during idle operation nearly all of this energy will appear as heat on the heat sinks. Good ventilation is vital to the proper operation of the amplifier. It has been adjusted for optimal performance at room temperature, but will work well between 50 and 90 degrees Fahrenheit (10 to 33 Celsius). You should leave at least six inches clearance on the sides and top. The amplifier should not be placed in a closed cabinet which does not have forced air ventilation.

This amplifier runs hot. The heat sinks will warm up in about an hour to a temperature which will not be comfortable to touch for more than a moment or two, which is 120 to 130 degrees Fahrenheit (50 to 55 degrees Celsius). This is normal, and there is a thermal shut off system which will shut down the amplifier at internal temperatures in excess of 160 deg. F. and 70 deg. C.

It takes about an hour of warm up time to get the best performance out of the amplifier. It will take that long to reach operating temperature and exhibit lowest distortion and noise. This is not a subjective judgement, but based on actual distortion and noise measurements. Many customers have reported that longer warm up yields more improvement.

The amplifier does not require any maintenance. While the design is conservative, this is a hard running amplifier, as single ended Class A operation is the least efficient operating mode.

The Aleph 30 is unique in that there are no adjustments of any kind in the circuitry. There are no potentiometers to adjust. The operating parameters of bias currents and DC offset and so on are defined by physical constants, and will not go out of adjustment.

reeltrouble1

A good deal of ss gear now includes a stepped power chain to minimize cold start issues, I used to turn my BAT SS off during the week and then leave it on during the weekend, definetely took about 30 minutes for the gear to come into its own. One should always research the conditioner you use for any limiting issues with your particular gear.

My Wolcott's self-bias so I turn them off, again the soft start saves tube life, as a side issue they put out 450 watts so as you might imagine 16 EL-34's can throw a bit of heat, nice light show though....

RT1

heiney9

I'll also add that I leave my gear on when I know for sure I will be listening so it's ready to go and at the optimal operating condition. Not so much to relieve the life cycle issues. Any gear worth it's salt won't have any appreciable negative affects of turn on/off cycle unless it's done many times a day for years.

Since it takes 60 minutes or longer to hit the sweet spot, it's just easier to leave things powered up unless I feel I won't be listening for a few days, etc. If I decide last minute I want to listen, I either wait the necessary time, or deal with a little less than optimal performance until it hits the sweet spot.

H9

rubin

heiney9 wrote: »

mind you mine is for 30wpc, put mine up against your's anytime, anyplace :d:p;):).

hohoho sounds like fun.RAW POWER, I THINK I GOT YA, I ALSO RUN A PAIR OF 10 INCH POWERED SUBS TO TOTALLY SATURATE THE 25 X 14 ROOM , AND THEY'RE HARDLY ON ! (RUN MODERATLY WARM) GAIN LEVELS OVERALL BETWEEN 9 AND 10 OCLOCK.

leroyjr1

Just doesn't fell safe leaving my gear on 24/7. I turn mine off after every listening session.

SDA SRS 1.2

Have had bad luck with surges and lightning strikes, so mine stays unplugged unless I'm listening to it.

heiney9

rubin wrote: »

hohoho sounds like fun.RAW POWER, I THINK I GOT YA, I ALSO RUN A PAIR OF 10 INCH POWERED SUBS TO TOTALLY SATURATE THE 25 X 14 ROOM , AND THEY'RE HARDLY ON ! (RUN MODERATLY WARM) GAIN LEVELS OVERALL BETWEEN 9 AND 10 OCLOCK.

I have yet to find the limits of my amp. Came close running a pair of LSi 15's in a very large open room. The fact that its's rated at 30wpc simply amazes me everytime I sit down an listen.

Anyways have fun..........that's what the hobby is all about.

H9

heiney9

leroyjr1 wrote: »

Just doesn't fell safe leaving my gear on 24/7. I turn mine off after every listening session.

SDA SRS 1.2 wrote: »

Have had bad luck with surges and lightning strikes, so mine stays unplugged unless I'm listening to it.

Both legimate concerns..............I will not leave tubes on when I'm not home and even feel a little uncomfortable when I'm showering or outside and I can't monitor the tubes.

I do have an irrational fear of fire, since our house almost burned down as a kid. Constantly checking to make sure things are off, unplugged, have proper ventilation, etc.:)