Are there any decent sheap sub EQ's

bevo

I want to get something to help flatten out my sub, but I don't want to spend 800$.

thsmith

Go to hometheatershack.com and look at Room EQ wizard.

RS analog SPL meter about $35
REW - Free
BFD 1124 <$100 I think.
SOund card that accepts real mic in about $35
PC - everyone has one right?
Various cables and connectors <$20
Few hours to learn REW, people at the shack are very helpful and have done a great job documenting how to use REW and use a BFD to tame the peaks.

treitz3

The SMS-1's have been hanging round the 3 bill mark on the 'gone.

bevo

I just read a little about both products. The SMA-1 seems like the easiest by far of the 2, but the BFD seems like it would be more flexible after you figured it out.

Which of the 2 would give the best results? I'm someone who likes to tinker with this stuff(even though I don't know anything about it) so it wouldn't bother me to learn about the BFD, plus it's by far the best deal money wise. But if the SMS-1 would give me much better results I would put out the extra couple hundred and get it.

Any advice would be great.

treitz3

I can not compare the two as I have not heard the other one. That said, I have used the SMS-1 and blended my sub wonderfully to the mains and both to the room. I hold nothing but the utmost of regards toward the SMS-1.

thsmith

REW and BFD will give more flexibility and allows you to see your dips to position your sub to raise those dips. You should never try to raise a dip with an EQ.

I do not know about the SMS-1 except it is point and click. If tinking is your thing the BFD is the way to go IMO.

Once you get the hang of REW you will understand so much more about room EQing.

Also, some room treatments will help tremendously.

bevo

I think I'm going to go with the BFD just so I do learn more about what's going on. It seems from what I've read that the SMS-1 and SVS's system works great. Everyone seems to be amazed by the results the SVS sub EQ(or whatever it's called) produces, but 700$ is more then I'm willing to go right now. Plus it would be nice if I understood what kind of changes were being made, that way I can try and help a few friends with their setups.

Looks like I have a few more hours of reading after I get the BFD to try and figure it out. Should be a good time.
One thing that the SVS, and SMS-1 claims is that it fixes the entire rooms. The BDF and REW seems to just take the main listening position into account. If I'm wrong please correct me.

After looking on the internet, the BFD's seem like they are hard to come by. I might just have to get the SMS-1. I'll look for a couple more days, but if anyone has seen either on sale at a good price I would love to know about it.

treitz3

Eh, they can help the entire room. I wouldn't exactly say they fix the entire room. I have always adjusted mine to the sweet spot but you can't do anything with the waves once they have left the speaker. You will still have nulls and what not around the room, unless maybe it's in an anechoic chamber.

bevo

Would this sound card work for REW. http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=4115644&CatId=4261

thsmith

You need to spend more time here.

http://www.hometheatershack.com/roomeq/wizardhelp/help_en-GB/html/index.html

Here is what they say on SCs
A soundcard (internal or external) which supports full duplex operation (simultaneous replay and recording) with line inputs and outputs. Note that microphone inputs are NOT suitable and should not be used (they have too much gain and most suffer from high noise levels and limited bandwidth). Inexpensive soundcards are typically adequate, a reference measurement or a loopback connection can be used to remove the soundcard's frequency response from the measurement. Examples of USB soundcards which have been found to work well are the Soundblaster MP3+, Soundblaster Live! 24-bit USB External (but not under Windows Vista) and the M-Audio MobilePre-USB. Higher quality units that work well are the EMU 0404 and the Tascam 144.

kuntasensei

Not for nothing, but your Denon 1909 has Audyssey MultEQ XT, which should do a pretty good job of EQ'ing your SVS (though not with the higher resolution that the standalone SVS unit does). Just turn your subsonic filter off on the subwoofer before you run Audyssey, do all available positions, then re-enable the subsonic filter. The slope of the filter causes Audyssey to boost deep bass, whereas running it without the filter gives Audyssey an idea of the sub's actual -3dB point, then the filter can do what it's supposed to post-Audyssey.

I'm not gonna rehash it, but I posted a lengthy explanation of how you should run Audyssey for best results here at the forum.

bevo

kuntasensei wrote: »

Not for nothing, but your Denon 1909 has Audyssey MultEQ XT, which should do a pretty good job of EQ'ing your SVS (though not with the higher resolution that the standalone SVS unit does). Just turn your subsonic filter off on the subwoofer before you run Audyssey, do all available positions, then re-enable the subsonic filter. The slope of the filter causes Audyssey to boost deep bass, whereas running it without the filter gives Audyssey an idea of the sub's actual -3dB point, then the filter can do what it's supposed to post-Audyssey.

I'm not gonna rehash it, but I posted a lengthy explanation of how you should run Audyssey for best results here at the forum.

I actually used your post the last time I ran audyssey. The main problem with me is that my listening position dies at 60hz by 20-30db compared to 15-50hz. It then comes back up a little at 70 and 80 but it is still 15 db low. I used my subs peq to bring down my 20-50 some, but it can't bring it that far down, and there is nothing I can do to get my 60hz within 10db of my 70 and 80hz. I can't really change my listening position or move my sub.

What's crazy is that 6 inches abouve my head, 60 hz is fine. It goes way up almost 30 db, and to my left about a foot it also comes up. I'm going to try moving my sub a little and see if it helps. If I could get 60 hz to come up some I could get my bass within 6 or 7 db flat from 15-80hz.

If I can get it that close I'm going to just not get anything for awhile and save the PEQ's for when the upgrade bug strikes really hard.


Has anyone used SVS's device? I can't seem to find many reveiws on it.

thsmith

Aud does a better job once you have EQed your sub. A before and after graph proves that other wise you may be missing a lot from your sub.

OP might consider the AM-8033 or what ever it is called. No graphs to look at or compare but it is supposed to work. Send BSOKO a PM.

bevo

I went by kuntasensei's way of doing it last time by turning of the peq before I ran audyssey, I'm going to try it with the PEQ on and see how that works whenever I get the house to myself again.

The 60hz dip is whats killing me. I mean to go from 92 db at 50hz to drop to 74 db at 60 hz is crazy. It goes back up to 85 at 70 and 80, but alot of music occurs at 60 hz. I didn't realize how bad it was until I walked around the room listening to music. I'm going to have to move my sub somehow. I don't think a dip that big could be fixed could it, without moving the sub?

The entire room at ear level while sitting is dead at 60 hz from one end of the room to the other for about a 3 foot wide space. I'm just going to have to move it. When I move across the room there are spots that you feel the bass drum pounding in your chest. That's what I want at my listening position. The wife has school on friday and I'll take the kid to day care and fix it if it's the last thing I do.

I really can't believe bass can just die like that. I always thought people exagerated about dead spots in a room. About once a month something else to do with home theater blows my mind.

McLoki

I second (or is it third?) the recommendation for the BFD 1124. It is awesome - I love mine. stereo parametric EQ - 14bands per left / right - individually configured.

Only $99 with free shipping. (and no, i don't own guitar center so no affiliation)

To figure out how to configure it (since it is not really designed as a sub EQ - more as a notch filter) you want to read this page.....

Michael

Huck344

bevo wrote: »

What's crazy is that 6 inches abouve my head, 60 hz is fine.

Easy solution. . . get a booster seat to make you 6" taller:D Good luck with your fix. Eager to see if moving your sub helps

thsmith

Thats the value of REW is to see where you have dips. Moving your sub even a couple of inches will make a difference.

Also, you want to be forward or behind center point in your roon not dead center.

Learn REW and play, you will get it but it is time consuming and in the end you will be very happy.

bevo wrote: »

I went by kuntasensei's way of doing it last time by turning of the peq before I ran audyssey, I'm going to try it with the PEQ on and see how that works whenever I get the house to myself again.

The 60hz dip is whats killing me. I mean to go from 92 db at 50hz to drop to 74 db at 60 hz is crazy. It goes back up to 85 at 70 and 80, but alot of music occurs at 60 hz. I didn't realize how bad it was until I walked around the room listening to music. I'm going to have to move my sub somehow. I don't think a dip that big could be fixed could it, without moving the sub?

The entire room at ear level while sitting is dead at 60 hz from one end of the room to the other for about a 3 foot wide space. I'm just going to have to move it. When I move across the room there are spots that you feel the bass drum pounding in your chest. That's what I want at my listening position. The wife has school on friday and I'll take the kid to day care and fix it if it's the last thing I do.

I really can't believe bass can just die like that. I always thought people exagerated about dead spots in a room. About once a month something else to do with home theater blows my mind.

treitz3

bevo wrote: »

I really can't believe bass can just die like that. I always thought people exaggerated about dead spots in a room.

That's the null I was talking about. You either have to move the sub/mains or move the listening position to correct. There is a product out there to correct a null but I can't for the life of me remember what that product is.

IIRC, the device was a stand alone sub that counteracts with the lower registers in the room. Man, it's been years since I read about this so forgive me if I'm wrong but basically you sit this device behind the listening position somewhere and it somehow reads the frequencies and counteracts them with an out of phase throw that somehow knocks out the null in your sweet spot.

It's probably out of your price range from what I've read so far [around $900.00 or so just for the unit, with additional stuff to buy] but I thought I'd throw it out there for you or anybody else who was limited in placement of mains/sub/sweet spot. Anyhoo, I was able to dig these two links up and some of the suggestions may help you if you haven't tried them yet.

http://stereophile.com/reference/108tech/#

http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?htech&1226490986&openfrom&1&4

Hope that helps...

bevo

I've decided to go with the rew and BFD since the SMS-1 only effects the main listening position also.


Would any of these soundcards work. I was going to get the turtle beach one, but it seems hard to find, and the soundblaster home theater shack suggests is way to expensive for all I will use it for.
http://www.usbgear.com/computer_cable_details.cfm?sku=USBG-SOUND-71&cats=121&catid=121%2C637%2C136
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16829102020&cm_re=usb_sound_card-_-29-102-020-_-Product
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16829128010&cm_re=usb_sound_card-_-29-128-010-_-Product

And besides the BFD what else will I need as far as cables and anything else I'm not thinking of.

bevo

OK, why is are my mains playing down to 50hz? I have mains set to small, crossover on them at 80 LFE crossed at 80. I'm am starting to get drove crazy over all of this. Could soemthing be wrong with my receivers crossover?

McLoki

bevo wrote: »

OK, why is are my mains playing down to 50hz? I have mains set to small, crossover on them at 80 LFE crossed at 80. I'm am starting to get drove crazy over all of this. Could soemthing be wrong with my receivers crossover?

The crossover is a slope, not a wall.... if it is a 12db slope with a 80hz crossover and was playing a constant tone at 80db......

it would play an 80hz tone at 80db and a 40hz tone at 68db (12db less) and a 20hz tone at 56db.

Long story short - it is working exactly like it should.

Michael

McLoki

bevo wrote: »

And besides the BFD what else will I need as far as cables and anything else I'm not thinking of.

you will want 2 - 1/4" headphone to RCA adapters.

thsmith

bevo wrote: »

I've decided to go with the rew and BFD since the SMS-1 only effects the main listening position also.


Would any of these soundcards work. I was going to get the turtle beach one, but it seems hard to find, and the soundblaster home theater shack suggests is way to expensive for all I will use it for.
http://www.usbgear.com/computer_cable_details.cfm?sku=USBG-SOUND-71&cats=121&catid=121%2C637%2C136
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16829102020&cm_re=usb_sound_card-_-29-102-020-_-Product
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16829128010&cm_re=usb_sound_card-_-29-128-010-_-Product

And besides the BFD what else will I need as far as cables and anything else I'm not thinking of.

You need to read REW FAQ 3 or 4 times

Polkie2009

Anyone had any luck using a AntiMode 8033 unit on their sub? Not considered cheap, unless you can find a used one somewhere???,lol, but from reading a few reviews,it looks like people have been able to get good results in little time with them without driving themselves batty taming their sub.

thsmith

Polkie2009 wrote: »

Anyone had any luck using a AntiMode 8033 unit on their sub? Not considered cheap, unless you can find a used one somewhere???,lol, but from reading a few reviews,it looks like people have been able to get good results in little time with them without driving themselves batty taming their sub.

PM Bsoko, he had several and used them for over a year I know of.

jinjuku

thsmith wrote: »

Go to hometheatershack.com and look at Room EQ wizard.

RS analog SPL meter about $35
REW - Free
BFD 1124 <$100 I think.
SOund card that accepts real mic in about $35
PC - everyone has one right?
Various cables and connectors <$20
Few hours to learn REW, people at the shack are very helpful and have done a great job documenting how to use REW and use a BFD to tame the peaks.

The OP will need a Mic. If you get a pro mic (Behringer makes one) you will need to add on a small mixing console to provide phantom power for the mic.

jinjuku

bevo wrote: »

I went by kuntasensei's way of doing it last time by turning of the peq before I ran audyssey, I'm going to try it with the PEQ on and see how that works whenever I get the house to myself again.

The 60hz dip is whats killing me. I mean to go from 92 db at 50hz to drop to 74 db at 60 hz is crazy. It goes back up to 85 at 70 and 80, but alot of music occurs at 60 hz. I didn't realize how bad it was until I walked around the room listening to music. I'm going to have to move my sub somehow. I don't think a dip that big could be fixed could it, without moving the sub?

The entire room at ear level while sitting is dead at 60 hz from one end of the room to the other for about a 3 foot wide space. I'm just going to have to move it. When I move across the room there are spots that you feel the bass drum pounding in your chest. That's what I want at my listening position. The wife has school on friday and I'll take the kid to day care and fix it if it's the last thing I do.

I really can't believe bass can just die like that. I always thought people exagerated about dead spots in a room. About once a month something else to do with home theater blows my mind.

Put the sub in your listening position. Play a 60hz tone through. Crawl around (ear level where the sub would be at) and when you hear what you need to be hearing that is where the sub would go (if you can place it).

thsmith

jinjuku wrote: »

The OP will need a Mic. If you get a pro mic (Behringer makes one) you will need to add on a small mixing console to provide phantom power for the mic.

If all he wants to do measure LFE he can use the RS SPL Meter, agree the Behringer for full range measurements

bevo

jinjuku wrote: »

Put the sub in your listening position. Play a 60hz tone through. Crawl around (ear level where the sub would be at) and when you hear what you need to be hearing that is where the sub would go (if you can place it).

I did that last night and finally found a decent spot. Last night it was pretty good, having 14db dip from 15h-80hz. Today though I got my fxi a6's in and reran audysseyy and it screwed up my sub. I'm going to rerun it a few more times if I can get my 3 year old to be quit for 20 minutes and see if that fixes it.

The sub at listening position worked well, I moved it were it sounded best and it almost completley got rid of the 60hz null.

bevo

I went ahead and ordered the SMS-1. I don't think I have the time to figure out the REW, BFD combo. I couldn't even figure out what kind of soundcard to buy, and all of them listed at the home theater shack were either not made anymore or way to expensive. After paying for the BFD, a soundcard, cords, decent mic I would have had the same in that setup as I will the sms-1.

After all the reviews I read, the sms-1 just seemed like a better fit for me. After trying to find the time to move my sub and mess with the peq on it, I realized that with my wife and 3 year old boy, I really don't think I would have had the time to spend with he BFD that I would need to get the most out of it.

Thanks for all the info everyone. When it gets here next week I'll write a mini review and let you guys know if I screwed up or not.

thsmith

Most people just don't take the time to learn REW which I understand and AM8033, SMS-1 and the new SVS/Audessy products fill that gap.

Good luck with the SMS-1. Just remember you can not EQ a null, just clip the peaks.