Questions on CV Joints and Suspension

audiobliss

Ok, so two weekends ago we had freezing rain and snow, etc, and I went out and had some fun in my Mazda3 with the ebrake. You better believe it was loads of fun! Until a point, that is.

Pulling out of a parking lot, turning right onto the street I yanked the ebrake and ended up sliding all the way across the street and slamming into the curb on the other side, with the car being parallel to the curb. Since the rear end was sliding out to the left, I was countersteering left, so when I hit the curb my front wheels were turned to the left, meaning the force wasn't just applied laterally, but that the front of the wheel caught and applied the force towards the back of the car. Thusly, my driver side front wheel has been pushed back a good 2.5" or so into my fender, bending it up pretty good, and of course messing up some components underneath, as well as cracking all the way through one of the spokes on that front wheel. (All pictures are clickable thumbnails to view larger versions.)





Obviously the tire was rubbing, so I couldn't drive it like that. My friends and I put the spare on, it was small enough not to rub (except at full lock to the left), and it actually drove. Now, I drove really slow (~15mph) back to campus, but it drove for about 8-10 minutes like that. I now have it up on jack stands with the front wheels off to inspect the suspension components and compare them to the other side.



The lower control arm obviously bore the brunt of the impact (well, that and the wheel), because it has creased and buckled at a certain point. From looking around and comparing both sides, turning the wheel, watching how things behave and rub/bind, I can't see anything else that's obviously been damaged besides the lower control arm.

So, my questions:
1) Can you tell from the pics if there are other things that are definitely messed up and need attention?
2) I don't know much about fwd, half-shafts, CV joints, etc; I know it's definitely possible there's a lot there that could be damaged. Is it probable? Guaranteed? What do I need to look for? How can I check that?
3) Is it possible there could be damage to the brakes on that corner?
4) What about the tubular support that hangs down for the lower control arm? From everything I can tell it looks just like the one from the other side, as if there's no damage, bending, twisting, etc.
5) What else should I be worried about?

It seemed to drive ok back to campus, but things were still icey (yes, I did still pull the e-brake around every turn back to campus...what can I say, just too much fun!), and things are off kelter from the lower control arm being bent, so I couldn't tell from that if it's driving right or not.

I'd really appreciate any information, knowledge, experience, wisdom you could throw my way about this. Assuming there's not too much that needs replacing, I'm fairly confident I can manage it myself, though of course there are some things I'll have to research and figure out before I can tackle it.

Anyways, onto some more pictures. They're all clickable to see larger versions.









If it helps to see anymore pictures, HERE is the main album. On the left side you can select "Driver Side" (damaged) or "Passenger Side" (undamaged) to compare the two.

Thank you so much for reading through all this! I'd really appreciate any guidance you could give me!

Serendipity

audiobliss wrote: »

Ok, so two weekends ago we had freezing rain and snow, etc, and I went out and had some fun in my Mazda3 with the ebrake. You better believe it was loads of fun! Until a point, that is.

What were you trying to do? Drift your Mazda?

audiobliss

Basically just 'drifting' around corners out in an industrial, low-traffic area. Though I'm sure drifting is too glorified a term for what we were doing. We also goofed off in some big empty parking lots, but the snow was much too thick and unpacked to be able to have any real fun there.

Serendipity

audiobliss wrote: »

Basically just 'drifting' around corners out in an industrial, low-traffic area. Though I'm sure drifting is too glorified a term for what we were doing. We also goofed off in some big empty parking lots, but the snow was much too thick and unpacked to be able to have any real fun there.

I don't want this to sound like criticism, but you gotta be careful in the future with your driving.

When my car was having problems my Mom lent me her Corvette ('09 C6) and I didn't even speed in THAT thing... The fastest I drove was 55 in a "speed limit 55" zone.

audiobliss

Serendipity wrote: »

I don't want this to sound like criticism, but you gotta be careful in the future with your driving.

When my car was having problems my Mom lent me her Corvette ('09 C6) and I didn't even speed in THAT thing... The fastest I drove was 55 in a "speed limit 55" zone.

Yes, I remember you being just like appadv. Pretty ridiculous, if you ask me.

I definitely get what you're saying, and I expect to get some of that as responses. There was NO traffic out there, just me and the road (no one else was in the car with me), so there wasn't much at risk as far as that's concerned. (My friends were in another car, and they were a good ways ahead of me.) Still really stupid, and now I'm paying for it. But it was a fairly safe version of stupid.

shawn474

If you did enough damage to crack the wheel spoke and bend your lower control arm, you can bet your a$$ that you did more damage than those pictures show. The Mazda's aren't cheap either; my wife hit a curb going 15mph in her old Protege 5 and did a craptom of damage to it.

Serendipity

audiobliss wrote: »

I definitely get what you're saying, and I expect to get some of that as responses. There was NO traffic out there, just me and the road (no one else was in the car with me), so there wasn't much at risk as far as that's concerned. (My friends were in another car, and they were a good ways ahead of me.) Still really stupid, and now I'm paying for it. But it was a fairly safe version of stupid.

OK. Seriously though, I would check the following:

Struts and strut mounts
CV Joints
Tire rods
Brakes
Lower control arm

audiobliss

shawn474 wrote: »

If you did enough damage to crack the wheel spoke and bend your lower control arm, you can bet your a$$ that you did more damage than those pictures show. The Mazda's aren't cheap either; my wife hit a curb going 15mph in her old Protege 5 and did a craptom of damage to it.

Not what I wanted to hear. Though that's definitely in agreement with what my dad thinks.

Serendipity wrote: »

OK. Seriously though, I would check the following:

Struts and strut mounts
CV Joints
Tire rods
Brakes
Lower control arm

I guess my main problem is really HOW to check these things out and see if they're damaged. I need to do a bit of reading up on these areas so I can tell for myself what's messed up. It's just going to be a while with school and other activities in the way. I guess I was just hoping this thread could serve as a jumpstart into that research and learning.

Thanks for the concern and input, though. I had stupidly forgotten about the strut possibly being damaged.

Serendipity

audiobliss wrote: »

Thanks for the concern and input, though. I had stupidly forgotten about the strut possibly being damaged.

Yes, there is a good chance that the strut, lower control arm, tie rods and steering components were damaged.

HB27

I'd replace the hub and bearing assy, lower control arm, and strut. You can usually find the whole side suspension used off a good used "boneyard" vehicle.
Get a metric tape measure and measure all the critical points on your suspension. The measurements are readily available at about any body shop. IF you have any problems with sub frame the measurements will tell you IF you've knocked the unibody over.
Check the "gaps" or "lines" on your fenders where your hood matches up. It should be perfectly even within reason to see if you've knocked the body over on it.
It doesn't take a lot to knock a body over or "roll" your sub frame assemble.
Have a body/frame man take a look at it for you if possible.
Harry

Serendipity

If it's too much work to fix, just get one of the following as a replacement vehicle

http://www.fordvehicles.com/cars/mustang/
http://www.nissanusa.com/370z/
http://www.dodge.com/en/2010/challenger/
http://www.chevrolet.com/corvette/

shawn474

If you don't have A LOT of experience with these types of issues, it's best you take it to a trusted machanic. The last thing you want is to miss something and have something on your suspension / steering go out at 75mph on the highway. I would say this is not a place you want to "try to get your feet wet" without knowing 1.) what to look for, 2.) ow to dignose and 3.) ow to repair. I would bite the bullet, get it diagnosed, repair what you can by yourself and have a shop fix the rest.

Serendipity

shawn474 wrote: »

If you don't have A LOT of experience with these types of issues, it's best you take it to a trusted machanic. The last thing you want is to miss something and have something on your suspension / steering go out at 75mph on the highway. I would say this is not a place you want to "try to get your feet wet" without knowing 1.) what to look for, 2.) ow to dignose and 3.) ow to repair. I would bite the bullet, get it diagnosed, repair what you can by yourself and have a shop fix the rest.

+1

You should definitely get the car checked over by a mechanic and a body shop. They should be able to determine if the car has frame damage, or anything else that you may have missed.

Although I am no expert I would probably think there is more damage than what the pictures tell. And you should replace the strut just to be on the safe side. Make sure everything is fixed 100% before you drive the car again.

Jstas

Dude, if you hit hard enough to push the wheel into the bodywork, you bent the car. You can replace the control arm if you like but I'll bet the subframe is tweaked.

Take it to a collision center, tell them what happened and have them give you an estimate and let you know what's up with it.

You aren't going to be able to easily do suspension work on that level in a college dorm parking lot.

Serendipity

Jstas wrote: »

Take it to a collision center, tell them what happened and have them give you an estimate and let you know what's up with it.

I agree. It's a good idea to have someone look it over.

Serendipity

When you hit curbs at an angle what happens is all that momentum and energy is transferred to your suspension components that have no room for any side to side movements (struts, strut mounts, etc.)

If as you said you sent the wheel 2.5" into the body, then other things such as CV joints may also be damaged.

Does the car make a "click-click" sound when making turns?

joeparaski

Ok, since this will be a do it yourself project and you want to do this as cheaply as possible....replace the lower control arm for now and make sure the strut looks straight, if it's bent, replace it at the same time. Get yourself a used wheel, put your tire on it and check for tire damage, and then go to a shop for a wheel alignment. If they can align it, you're basically done and be more careful next time. If they can't align it, they'll tell you so, and they should be able to tell you what work needs to be done to get it straight again.

No need to change everything in sight...if you're lucky, all you'll need is the control arm, a wheel, and an alignment.

Joe

Serendipity

joeparaski wrote: »

No need to change everything in sight...if you're lucky, all you'll need is the control arm, a wheel, and an alignment.

Joe

If you look at the pics in his photo album, the wheel is 2-3" towards the body instead of being centered in the wheel well.

I would think that is a serious issue?

Serendipity

Also, I personally wouldn't buy a used wheel from a junkyard - it may have been in an accident.

dave shepard

joeparaski wrote: »

Ok, since this will be a do it yourself project and you want to do this as cheaply as possible....replace the lower control arm for now and make sure the strut looks straight, if it's bent, replace it at the same time. Get yourself a used wheel, put your tire on it and check for tire damage, and then go to a shop for a wheel alignment. If they can align it, you're basically done and be more careful next time. If they can't align it, they'll tell you so, and they should be able to tell you what work needs to be done to get it straight again.

No need to change everything in sight...if you're lucky, all you'll need is the control arm, a wheel, and an alignment.

Joe

I would agree, change the control arm and rim have an alignment done if it takes an alignment and the wheel is in the same position as the other side (they can tell you if it is) then your probably good to go. I've worked on plenty that have has simular issues and that was all that was needed. Just look at all areas where there might be broken paint or open rust (lighter in color then the area aroud it) that will tell you if there is or could be a problem the Knuckle would or could be bent also look closely at that. As for the bearing listen to it when you spin the wheel by hand and feel for a rough feel when turning the hub. The CV joint is more then likely alright unless it's leaking it's lube (dark grey in color) the boot will have to be ripped or has a hole in it for that. I would also have the tire looked at to make sure a belt hasn't been broke when it hit the curb.

Dave

Serendipity

dave shepard wrote: »

I would agree, change the control arm and rim have an alignment done if it takes an alignment and the wheel is in the same position as the other side (they can tell you if it is) then your probably good to go. Dave

I went through audiobliss' album and saw that the left side wheel is crooked - wouldn't that indicate frame or suspension issues?

Again, not an expert just going by what I see in the pictures.

joeparaski

Serendipity wrote: »

If you look at the pics in his photo album, the wheel is 2-3" towards the body instead of being centered in the wheel well.

I would think that is a serious issue?

Not necessarily....the control arm is bent, if he can't visually see anything else bent, then that is the first thing to change. I've seen this dozens of times.

Joe

joeparaski

Serendipity wrote: »

Also, I personally wouldn't buy a used wheel from a junkyard - it may have been in an accident.

Why wouldn't you buy a used wheel? New aluminum wheels cost a fortune, a junkyard wheel is just fine if it's not damaged.

Joe

Serendipity

joeparaski wrote: »

Why wouldn't you buy a used wheel? New aluminum wheels cost a fortune, a junkyard wheel is just fine if it's not damaged.

Joe

If it's not damaged then maybe.

But I don't like to have any scratches so I would probably still go with a new wheel.

raidersrule76

Take it to a shop!!! Even if you don't see anymore damage if something is even a little bit out of whack you are going to end up having more issues down the road and possibly spending more money than you would have at the get go of this whole process.

Make sure you find a trusted shop to look at it one that people have said good things about so you know that they are not just trying to get money out of you.

Good luck and next time stay away from those curbs bro.

Mark

audiobliss

Thank you SO much to everyone who has taken the time to read through my post, take a look at the pics, and share your input with me! I really do appreciate it!

At the moment, still being on this side of the reading I want to do about things, I'm a bit conflicted about what to do with it. I do want to do it myself, I do want to have it done cheap, etc...but at the same time I don't to miss anything, and I DON'T want to have any frame damage. But if there is frame damage, I definitely want to know about it. I think I'll see if I can't get a shop around here to look at it for cheap and tell me what they think is up with it, and then replace the wheel and LCA.

I'm definitely in favor of getting a used wheel. All the used wheels I've seen online so far have been right around $150. I'll call a Mazda dealership and see what it is they want for one, so I have something to compare the prices to. When I had to replace an alloy wheel on my Cherokee, it was only about $40 from a junkyard...boy that would be nice. This is kinda a downer also because I just had all four of my wheels repainted here this past summer to get everything looking nice and new. Hopefully I can find a good looking, structurally sound used wheel.

I'll be looking into things about the CV joint, tie rod, strut, bearing, etc.

Again, thanks so much to all who have provided their input! It is invaluable!

joeparaski

I'll make one last comment and leave it at that. "IF" the only "visual" thing is the bent control arm and rim, the only thing the shop can do is replace those two parts and do an alignment. THEN, and only THEN, will you know if the frame is bent.

And before they even do an alignment, they'll check the rest of the front end (bearings, ball joints, tie rods..etc), there may be some other parts that require replacement that were needed before you hit the curb.

Joe

Serendipity

audiobliss wrote: »

Thank you SO much to everyone who has taken the time to read through my post, take a look at the pics, and share your input with me! I really do appreciate it!

At the moment, still being on this side of the reading I want to do about things, I'm a bit conflicted about what to do with it. I do want to do it myself, I do want to have it done cheap, etc...but at the same time I don't to miss anything, and I DON'T want to have any frame damage. But if there is frame damage, I definitely want to know about it. I think I'll see if I can't get a shop around here to look at it for cheap and tell me what they think is up with it, and then replace the wheel and LCA.

I'm definitely in favor of getting a used wheel. All the used wheels I've seen online so far have been right around $150. I'll call a Mazda dealership and see what it is they want for one, so I have something to compare the prices to. When I had to replace an alloy wheel on my Cherokee, it was only about $40 from a junkyard...boy that would be nice. This is kinda a downer also because I just had all four of my wheels repainted here this past summer to get everything looking nice and new. Hopefully I can find a good looking, structurally sound used wheel.

I'll be looking into things about the CV joint, tie rod, strut, bearing, etc.

Again, thanks so much to all who have provided their input! It is invaluable!

Just another note... what year is your Mazda3? In the picture it looks like a 2005 or so but I'm not sure.

If it is indeed a 5 year old with say, 60-80k miles, you should replace the wheel bearing anyways for safety. I did at 72k and the mechanic said it's a good idea to do this so I went with it.

nooshinjohn

From what I can see, the lower control arm, strut and wheel need to be replaced, and there is a possibility of damage to the sub-frame as well. The tie rod and drive axle should be ok about 50% of the time, but without actually getting my eyes on it, I cannot say for sure. When I had my Monte Carlo, I had a similar incident and only had to replace a wheel, but due to fender damage, the car went to a body shop. If you have any body damage, I would recommend you take it there and let them sort it out with the help of your insurance company.

audiobliss

joeparaski wrote: »

I'll make one last comment and leave it at that. "IF" the only "visual" thing is the bent control arm and rim, the only thing the shop can do is replace those two parts and do an alignment. THEN, and only THEN, will you know if the frame is bent.

And before they even do an alignment, they'll check the rest of the front end (bearings, ball joints, tie rods..etc), there may be some other parts that require replacement that were needed before you hit the curb.

Joe

It's certainly your prerogative to leave the thread alone if you so wish, but I'm very grateful for your input and would continue to be. Thanks for the insight on the shop's tactics.

Serendipity wrote: »

Just another note... what year is your Mazda3? In the picture it looks like a 2005 or so but I'm not sure.

If it is indeed a 5 year old with say, 60-80k miles, you should replace the wheel bearing anyways for safety. I did at 72k and the mechanic said it's a good idea to do this so I went with it.

It is indeed a 2005 with just under 70,000 miles on it. You may have a very good point here.

nooshinjohn wrote: »

From what I can see, the lower control arm, strut and wheel need to be replaced, and there is a possibility of damage to the sub-frame as well. The tie rod and drive axle should be ok about 50% of the time, but without actually getting my eyes on it, I cannot say for sure. When I had my Monte Carlo, I had a similar incident and only had to replace a wheel, but due to fender damage, the car went to a body shop. If you have any body damage, I would recommend you take it there and let them sort it out with the help of your insurance company.

Thanks for your input. I do have some body damage, but it's fairly easy to overlook, and I was planning on doing just that and focusing instead on the more critical aspects. I'm not sure why insurance would be involved with this.

Serendipity

audiobliss wrote: »

It is indeed a 2005 with just under 70,000 miles on it. You may have a very good point here.

Also check the brakes. With around 70,000 miles you are probably due for new pads/rotors.

audiobliss wrote: »

Thanks for your input. I do have some body damage, but it's fairly easy to overlook, and I was planning on doing just that and focusing instead on the more critical aspects. I'm not sure why insurance would be involved with this.

Fix the control arm and suspension first; body damage can be fixed later as it's the safety things you want to take care of.