Musical inclination and an ear for good sound

Zitro

Hey guys, I was thinking about how I felt about audio before taking a dip into my modest NAD system. I liked music, but I never knew that there was such a disparity between equipment in producing sound. I was (and still am) very excited about this new view on music reproduction, but a lot of my friends can't relate or can't really tell a difference between different music systems, or at least not to the same degree that I can. It got me wondering what can cause some people to have an "ear" for sound, while some don't. I'm studying neuropsychology in school, and I started wondering if musical inclination had anything to do with it. Maybe those who are musically inclined and can/do play music have more of an ear for the different sounds than do the average Joe? I know it's definitely not a determining factor, as there are plenty of people who don't play music but still enjoy a good system. But my curiosity couldn't help me but wonder if there were a good amount of people here that play an instrument or are musically inclined to some degree? I personally am not; I can play guitar by looking at tabs but that's about it lol. How about you guys?

Pycroft

Hmmm....


Hmm...

Hm...

Well, I am very musically inclined. I am a musician and classically trained singer who has performed many times all over the place. I don't know if it has anything to do with have a good ear for sound. I know plenty of musicians who are more talented than I who are happy with a boombox and crappy CD. I also know many who have no musical ability whatsoever and die for a great sound. I think it may have an affect on what type of music you listen to. Typically, today's music is sort of bland (Not to sound to critical). Same chord progressions, music that has few textures, and is easy for non trained musicians to listen to and really enjoy. Perhaps that's why not as many non musicians listen to or appreciate opera, symphonies, etc. Some with training, or who have experienced them in a different way, listen to them in a different way and allow for a higher understanding and appreciation.

Zitro

Pycroft wrote: »

Hmmm....


Hmm...

Hm...

Well, I am very musically inclined. I am a musician and classically trained singer who has performed many times all over the place. I don't know if it has anything to do with have a good ear for sound. I know plenty of musicians who are more talented than I who are happy with a boombox and crappy CD. I also know many who have no musical ability whatsoever and die for a great sound. I think it may have an affect on what type of music you listen to. Typically, today's music is sort of bland (Not to sound to critical). Same chord progressions, music that has few textures, and is easy for non trained musicians to listen to and really enjoy. Perhaps that's why not as many non musicians listen to or appreciate opera, symphonies, etc. Some with training, or who have experienced them in a different way, listen to them in a different way and allow for a higher understanding and appreciation.

I am jealous of your skills, sir I wish I was more musically inclined.

The reason this thought came to mind is that musician's brains have been found to be neurologically and structurally different than the average brain, and I wonder if that difference also somehow correlates to how we perceive music; if it is enhanced by having the ability to recognize and play music yourself.

Tony M

I have a zero in musical talent aside from playing wipeout on a table but I sure am smitten by the audio bug. I have always wanted a system that sounds like the real thing. High Fidelity nirvana has always been a goal since I was a kid.

I might be taught to play the drums soon though...Jarrod:cool:

mantis

Some people care and some just are satisfied with the ability to hear it. Not everyone is critical about what they hear. Ipod ear buds are fantastic for most people and all they every need to experience there music.

I'm crazy about how things sound to the point I don't enjoy listening sometimes. I'm also a musician and hate nothing more when my tone isn't exactly how I want it.

comfortablycurt

I'm a musician myself...and I like to think I've got a good ear. I've been playing guitar for about 13 years or so. I also sing and play harmonica, amongst dabbling with keyboards, bass and drums a bit.

I think what it really comes down to, is some people are more interested in finding and seeing the differences in various systems. Some people really don't see why you'd need anything more than a little boombox, simply because it's not something that interests them.

Zitro

comfortablycurt wrote: »

I'm a musician myself...and I like to think I've got a good ear. I've been playing guitar for about 13 years or so. I also sing and play harmonica, amongst dabbling with keyboards, bass and drums a bit.

I think what it really comes down to, is some people are more interested in finding and seeing the differences in various systems. Some people really don't see why you'd need anything more than a little boombox, simply because it's not something that interests them.

But would a musician be more likely to listen to a mass market system like a Bose set and say, "hey, this sounds like crap" because they can hear how untrue it is to musical reproduction? They may not go out and buy a McIntosh and some Sonus Faber's simply because they don't feel the need for a "hifi" rig, but maybe they can at least be more likely to notice how distorted most mass-market stuff is and be able to tell the difference between a Bose and a McIntosh setup.

BeRad

I think that being musically inclined allows for a deeper appreciation of a song on a composition level. (not that those who aren't don't/can't appreciate music on the same level, but in my personal experience, they don't.)

More appreciation for the deeper aspects of a song makes me want to hear more of the song in better clarity so I can hear all of those little extra accents that help me enjoy the music that much more.

If you followed that, good job, you are probably as brain-dead-exhausted as I.
lol

comfortablycurt

Zitro wrote: »

But would a musician be more likely to listen to a mass market system like a Bose set and say, "hey, this sounds like crap" because they can hear how untrue it is to musical reproduction? They may not go out and buy a McIntosh and some Sonus Faber's simply because they don't feel the need for a "hifi" rig, but maybe they can at least be more likely to notice how distorted most mass-market stuff is and be able to tell the difference between a Bose and a McIntosh setup.

I think that's one of those things that can go either way really. I know musicians who are perfectly happy listening to music on a crappy stereo, but have excellent ears when it comes to actually composing music. I've had conversations with other musicians about this very topic. The way some of them have put it before, is "why spend a bunch of money on stereo equipment, when I could spend that same money on a new guitar/amp/effects/drums etc.". That's not to say that they don't have the ears to discern the differences, but rather that the differences aren't worth the extra expenses and efforts.

On the flip side, I know plenty of people that have absolutely no musical training or ability, that are able to discern tiny differences in stereo equipment. Those same people with the very discerning ears can be completely tone deaf as far as musical composition goes.

I don't think there really is such a thing as a "musical ear". All human ears work the same way. Yes, some people have better hearing than others, but we all have the same sense of hearing.

I think if anything, it would be more of a "musical mind", or "musical mentality". Some people feel more of a mental and emotional connection to the music that they're listening to. Some people don't just listen to it, but fully experience music. To other people, music is just used as background noise. Others just listen to the radio when they're in the car. Others don't listen to music at all(I couldn't imagine that).

I think everyone has the ability to discern minute differences between stereo equipment, but some people simply don't want to, or don't have the mental capabilities to make themselves discern the differences.

To put it another way...anyone can learn how to play a guitar. I don't care who you are, you can learn how to play it. But knowing the basics of playing it, and learning a few of your favorite songs is a lot different than learning how to speak with your guitar. All of your favorite musicians have a personal, emotional relationship to their instrument. A lot of people say that the guitar is an extension of your hands. True, in some ways...you do play a guitar with your hands. But, your hands aren't acting of their own accord. You have to have the soul and the mind to tell your hands what to do. The guitar is an extension of the soul, much more than the body. You don't play it with your hands...your hands are simply the tool that your mind acts through.

Anyone has the physical capability to play a guitar. But whether or not you have the mental ability, the creativity, and the dedication to learn how to speak with it is an entirely different story. The exact same principle applies to the topic of this thread.

cnh

I have to agree and disagree with some of the above. Curt makes a good point about musicians wanting to spend money on their equipment. I can understand that.

As for a 'musical ear'. Yes, there is such a thing! What I mean by it is someone who can sing on key, and/or remember and reproduce any melody that they hear once...the idea of being able to PLAY BY EAR...to reproduce a melody even if you do not know how to play a piano by pounding it out after perusing the scales available. My wife and I and my daughter can all do this..but the MAJORITY of people canNOT! Improvisation is also a part of this (none of us actually play the piano or have ever had lessons)--some people study music for decades but cannot play without sheet music? Others pick up an instrument and join right in regardless of whether they know the piece or not.

If you have such musical abilities then it follows that you SHOULD be able to hear nuances, subtleties better than MOST people and also better distinguish a bad from a good system within reason. Now, whether YOU 'choose' to do so or not! That is ANOTHER ISSUE entirely.

I am always amused when I see a guy who is basically TONE deaf with a 100K system...because I really don't believe he can hear much of anything and that he's wasting his money! Buying High End gear for SHOW!

This DOES NOT PRECLUDE PEOPLE WITH LITTLE OR NO MUSICAL EAR FROM 'ENJOYING MUSIC'...THEY DO! But I doubt that they do at the same 'level'. Music sensibility should be 'relative' just like all other human abilities.

You can teach 'anyone' to play a musical instrument, but you can't really teach one to have a GOOD EAR! They either do or they don't.

cnh

comfortablycurt

cnh wrote: »

I have to agree and disagree with some of the above. Curt makes a good point about musicians wanting to spend money on their equipment. I can understand that.

As for a 'musical ear'. Yes, there is such a thing! What I mean by it is someone who can sing on key, and/or remember and reproduce any melody that they hear once...the idea of being able to PLAY BY EAR...to reproduce a melody even if you do not know how to play a piano by pounding it out after perusing the scales available. My wife and I and my daughter can all do this..but the MAJORITY of people canNOT! Improvisation is also a part of this (none of us actually play the piano or have ever had lessons)--some people study music for decades but cannot play without sheet music? Others pick up an instrument and join right in regardless of whether they know the piece or not.

If you have such musical abilities then it follows that you SHOULD be able to hear nuances, subtleties better than MOST people and also better distinguish a bad from a good system within reason. Now, whether YOU 'choose' to do so or not! That is ANOTHER ISSUE entirely.

I am always amused when I see a guy who is basically TONE deaf with a 100K system...because I really don't believe he can hear much of anything and that he's wasting his money! Buying High End gear for SHOW!

This DOES NOT PRECLUDE PEOPLE WITH LITTLE OR NO MUSICAL EAR FROM 'ENJOYING MUSIC'...THEY DO! But I doubt that they do at the same 'level'. Music sensibility should be 'relative' just like all other human abilities.

You can teach 'anyone' to play a musical instrument, but you can't really teach one to have a GOOD EAR! They either do or they don't.

cnh

These are some good points. The point of having a good ear for keys and tones especially.

As true as that is though, it still takes a lot of practice and dedication to be able to pick up on various keys and tones by hearing alone. I've become pretty good at learning things by ear, but it isn't a skill that you just automatically have. It takes time to learn what sounds are what key, and to discern by simply hearing them, where and how they're being played. The idea of a musical prodigy just picking up an instrument and belting it out basically doesn't exist.

Yes, there are people that have excellent natural singing voices. Some much more than others. Regardless of how great of a natural voice you have, it still takes time to learn how to control your voice into various pitches, and to learn to associate a particular sound with a certain key. Knowledge like that has to be taught and learned.

Amherst

I sense you guy's being the subject of an upcoming term paper.

Just do everyone a favor and don't spill beer all over the frat house, OK?

comfortablycurt

Amherst wrote: »

I sense you guy's being the subject of an upcoming term paper.

Just do everyone a favor and don't spill beer all over the frat house, OK?

I'm not quite sure how to take that...


I'm speaking from a fairly extensive knowledge of musical theory and composition, not some drunk rambling. I've been writing and playing my own music for about 10 years now...I do kind of know what I'm talking about.

Pycroft

The musicians brain -

There have been lots of studies done, most of them crap...but there may be some legitimacy to this:

Musicians are constantly and consistantly using both sides of the brain. Left brain = logic, right brain = creativity. Most humans live on one side or the other (Most are left brained, and stay there). Musicians consistantly have to do both because in order to understand and perform music you need an extremely high level of technical know-how. While singing, I am constantly making subconscious decisions about tempo, pitch, balance, about how to attack certain sections, etc. On top of all that, there is a huge creative side to all of it when it comes ot phrasing, dynamics, etc. Consider a piano player. They are reading music, processing notes and changing those notes into sound through the left brain. Then, they are making it sound good with the right brain, and at all times using both their left and right side of their body (Hands) to create the sound.

So...some say that musicians brains are different because they use more, on average, then the average human being who sits at a desk all day.

James

Amherst

comfortablycurt wrote: »

I'm not quite sure how to take that...


I'm speaking from a fairly extensive knowledge of musical theory and composition, not some drunk rambling. I've been writing and playing my own music for about 10 years now...I do kind of know what I'm talking about.

Take it as a cool and interesting discussion! Joking with the frat house comment.

concealer404

I'm in the same boat as Pycroft, and i'd say more, but he pretty much already nailed everything for me.

I only disagree about todays music being bland. There's plenty of interesting music out there today (in my opinion), you just have to dig beyond the radio.

inspiredsports

I don't think Simon Cowell has much talent when it come to singing or playing a musical instrument, but he sure can recognize what it takes. I guess my view it is that being able to sing or play an instrument doesn't directly correlate to your ability to enjoy music.

vc69

I have worked with many, many musicians in a recording studio environment. I have found that very few of them had an ear for fidelity. Having musical talent doesn't seem to correlate to an ear for hi-fi audio.

steveinaz

Believe it or not, my older brother asked me a few weeks ago if anyone had actually done "blind testing" to see if there was a difference between CD's and vinyl!

I think hi-fi nuts do have a special "ear" for music...

It gets funnier, one morning he was listening to classical music in the family room (some channel on DTV), and he remarked "man, your speakers do sound good!" I said "Dave, that's the TV speakers you're listening to, the stereo is off"..... LOL!!! This is the same guy who wants blind tests conducted...ROTFLMAO!

The hearing in my left ear is very, very bad---but I have NEVER mistaken my TV speakers for my 2-channel speakers.

Zitro

Amherst wrote: »

I sense you guy's being the subject of an upcoming term paper.

Just do everyone a favor and don't spill beer all over the frat house, OK?

LOL, no term paper due for me, but I do think it would be interesting to write my dissertation paper on music and the brain. Oliver Sacks just wrote a book on this. Interesting responses; seems we actually have a decent number of musicians here.


However, I've never had interest in fraternities and am not a frat member, so no need to worry about spilled beer lol.

Zitro

steveinaz wrote: »

Believe it or not, my older brother asked me a few weeks ago if anyone had actually done "blind testing" to see if there was a difference between CD's and vinyl!

I think hi-fi nuts do have a special "ear" for music....

I was reading an article yesterday about how CD sound quality is superior to vinyl, and how vinyl is mellow and dull compared to the edgy "excitement" in digital recordings. And people were commenting on it, agreeing. Makes you wonder, have these people actually heard good vinyl before? I don't even have a vinyl setup yet but the difference has been made clear on other people's rigs.