New lsi 15's

madmax

So I get my new lsi 15's home, move some sda's out of the way and hook them up...

Well, first of all I've been tweaking my SDA's for 10 years now so you couldn't expect much. I mean these new beasts will require different things. This held true especially with the tube amps. It sucked. Big time. So out go the tube amps and in comes my favorite Souncraftsmen 750 watt solid state amp. Yep, that was the ticket. These monsters eat up power. I thought the SDA's were bad. I will try some 1000 watt carver mono blocks next. So in the same position as the SDA's I could tell they were powerful, but they sounded small. I moved them further apart and that helped a little. In what should be the sweet spot they still dont sound full or big. However, if I walk around the room they get better. I'm afraid a lot of work will have to be done before I can review them. A few things I can say is that they sound very similar to the sda's in timbre, they are very powerful, they are extremely loud for their size, the bass seems stronger than SDA's and I can hear more detail. Right now if I reinstalled the SDA's I would be much happier with the sound stage but once again, they have been tweaked into my system for years and these guys are totally different. I can tell they are extremely high quality but for an overall performance I have no clue what they can do. One important thing I think is going on is that they need to be much further away from me. Maybe a month from now I'll have a clue what I'm hearing.
madmax

mantis

That was good.

Alot of time needs to be spend with any speakers.It took me 4 years to decide that I didn't like my rt1000p's and found the need to get them out.

The Lsi15's I have been playing with since I owned them.The room I have sucks balls but I'm so waiting to get them into my new home Theater room where the acoustic will be as close to perfection as I can get it.

I don't feel they need watts my man but current.They are hard on amps that don't have drive.I had my little Rotel 60 watt/110 watt into a 4 ohm load and it drove them with ease and really good control.

Play my man play,they are tricky to get right,that much I have learned.....One tip that works good,tilt them back slightly with the carpet spikes,pick up cups if you have hardwood floors.I unlevel them fron front to back but side to side perfectly level.Toe in I also found needs not to be as aimed as most.......I assume from the Tweeter position....Eff's with me as I dick with them alot.

Dan

polkatese

Chuck,
that is quick! Did you pick 'em up? have fun with tweaking the placement..

madmax

Jimmie shipped them to me very quickly! He must have had everything ready to go before he offered them for sale because two days later they were sitting in my livingroom! Also, he said they were perfect. They were. When I opened them up there was not so much as a finger print on them. What an awesome seller! I have worked with some good ebayers in the past but man, Jimmie put them all to shame!
madmax

wangotango68

post a pic or two chuck.

scott:cool:

HBombToo

Originally posted by madmax001
Jimmie shipped them to me very quickly! He must have had everything ready to go before he offered them for sale because two days later they were sitting in my livingroom! Also, he said they were perfect. They were. When I opened them up there was not so much as a finger print on them. What an awesome seller! I have worked with some good ebayers in the past but man, Jimmie put them all to shame!
madmax

There is hope...

1/2 Twin

madmax

I tried a few things. I moved them further apart and that made a huge difference. They were 7' apart and now they are 11' apart. This widened the soundstage a lot with a small negative impact on bass energy. I also tried elevating the fronts about 1/2". That focused the center image a lot. Too much for my room. Still, the sound is nothing like I heard at the polk demo room. On goes the tweaking...

For anyone who doesn't know I have a long narrow room which is about 18 X 12 with the equipment and seating on the long walls for now. The SDA's love that arrangement but I'm starting to think the Lsi's don't. I think they need to be further away from the listener.
madmax

jrausch

If you’re trying to get the same sonic characteristics as your SDA’s your going to be very disappointed. They are not the efficient killers that the SDA are and they need lots of push to make them sound better. I had to build a serious 2/ch rig to beat out my 2.3’s in overall quality of sound stage. I’m sure Polk had them hooked into a nice little Conrad-Johnson system with plenty of warm power to make the Lsi’s magical. You will also need allot more break in time since Jimmie did not have them broken in yet. My 15’s are 6’ apart and my listening position is 6’ back. I’m using an Adcom 5802 for lots of warm power a Parasound PLD-2000 to deliver clean transparent signals with lots of bass to make them livelier and a Parasound Ultra 2000 DAC to smooth out the jitter and harsh highs from my CD player. This is the cheapest way I could come up with to actually beat out the SDA’s. Even if I hook the SDA’s into this rig they still cannot beat how clean the 15’s are. For music I always listen to the 15’s, for movies I leave that to the SDA’s that are in the basement home theater. There’s a huge reason why CC cannot carry the Lsi’s in that there is nothing in their audio arsenal that can move them the way Matt had intended. You have to adjust your taste a bit to move over to the 15’s more laid back but very focused sound.

madmax

One thing that really puts me off is that I started using tubes with the SDA's and I could hear all of these little sounds in the soundstage which non of my SS amps could produce. The tubes seemed to seperate these "sounds" instead of clumping them all together in a barage of sound. Using the tubes with the Lsi doesn't seem to work well at all and with the SS amp I can not hear these little "sounds" with the Lsi's. I'll try some other amps as I get time.

It is reassuring that jroush has had success getting the Lsi's to sound better to him than the SDA's.

madmax


edit: I didn't know the past history of my Lsi's. I assumed they were broken in but maybe not. Since everything I have is used and "well broken in" ebay purchases I guess I forgot about the break in thing!

jrausch

I think you are just adjusted to way your SDA's sound. As far as using tubes on the Lsi's it was not recommended in one of the recent audio reviews because the ported bass of the 15's need a quick power supply to make it work. The SDA's are a sealed design and would not be so adversely affected by your tubes. I have Parasound SS amp that does not produce the same amount of bass as my Adcom, I believe it's because of the pure Mos-Fet design with massive power reserves. The Conrad-Johnson system is probably the most ideal because it uses tubes, but is also very quick in the bottom end. Mos-Fet’s are the next best thing if you don’t have a CJ wallet. As far as hearing more sounds from the SDA’s, yes this is also true with my setup, there’s just more speakers with SDA information being transmitted through them. The Lsi’s are so much more accurate and if setup right can even make up for the SDA qualities. I have my Lsi’s up stairs in a smaller more intimate setting which I think is better suited for the way they sound. The SDA’s have their place and are still awe inspiring. New Lsi SDA’s would be just the ticket and I would be first in line to sell both sets to get a pair.

madmax

My soundcraftsmen amp is a mosfet design. I keep remembering a pic someone modified where they had an lsi15 with an lsi9 attached to the side of them and called them polk new SDA speakers. I wonder if you designed the crossovers properly if that would work? Fun to dream but I doubt anyone would ever make it happen. Sure would be cool though! C'mon polk, give the people what they want!
madmax

organ

I totally agree with madmax. Why won't Polk release some new versions of their popular SDA speakers? Most forum members want to see this happen and they're always the HOT topic in here. SDA technology put Polk on the audiophile radar and for some reason they decided to stop building them.
If Polk decides to release some new SDA stuff, I'll be fighting with jrausch to be the first in line at the store.

Maurice

madmax

Keep in mind also that the high end shops which polk used to deal with didn't know what they were doing either because polk didn't tell them or because they were just ignorant. I auditioned polk SDA speakers in a few different establishments. They didn't know what they did, let alone set them up properly. I heard crap back in the day when I auditoned them. For example, when set up properly everything from the CRS+ to the 1.2's sound fairly equal. When audioning these in a store, they all sounded like crap. Many of the very cheap multipurpose speakers seemed to put them to shame. Actually it was years after getting mine that I found out what they were capable of.
madmax

organ

Those are very good points madmax and Venom. I guess I'm a little bit upset because I got into Polk after they went mass-market. I don't have any problem with them going mass market. I think it's a good way to give a lot of people the Polk sound.
The ressurection of SDA is still a possibility though. The LSi series is doing very well. A lot of people in other Audio forums are very impressed with the LSi and now have more respect for Polk. Maybe SDA will be the next big thing from Polk. It would be nice to see some RTSDA in chain stores and LSiSDA's in smaler shops.

Maurice

mantis

This is a subject that does come up from time to time....Sad to say that polk made there bed and they have to sleep in it.Money rules the world but repect does hinder..........

The Lsi series is fine just the way they are,a few more color choices and they are the finest series speakers in there price class in my opnion.

brettw22

Originally posted by organ
Maybe SDA will be the next big thing from Polk. It would be nice to see some RTSDA in chain stores and LSiSDA's in smaler shops.

Are you guys using 'SDA' as a blanket term for what would be the visual design of the new speakers in reference to the old SDA's? I don't know that I've ever known of a speaker to be completely re-introduced, just using updated drivers and technology, at least not in the same way that automobiles have been.

Wouldn't the 'RTSDA' not be the SRT system basically?

organ

brettw,
The point I was trying to make is to sell a cheaper as well as higher end models. They can have totally new drivers, old drivers, or whatever. I was trying to say that seeing Polk introduce the SDA again would be like a dream come true for me.

You're correct about the SRT being the RT version of SDA's. But very few people could afford Matt's reference system.
Something that I think about from time to time is to see speakers like a pair of CSi40 or 400 using SDA. I alwys think about getting two centers and order the x-over and link cable from polk if they're still available. It's strange, the system may sound very good or awful because of diferent drivers and cabinet(maybe plugging all the ports help a little). What can I say...I think about audio 24/7. I'd rather be home listening to my system than chill with friends. LOL. Sometimes my comments in here may be a litle over-the-top.

Maurce

brettw22

Originally posted by organ
Something that I think about from time to time is to see speakers like a pair of CSi40 or 400 using SDA.

I think that SDA stands for Stereo Dimensional Array, right? I don't understand your terminology (just trying to understand) about a pair of the above speakers using SDA. Explain that for me por favor........

TroyD

I think that you guys will find that SDA went away before Polk went in to Circuit City.......

From my experiences, fit and finish wise, I think that the RT/RTi series is as good and in some ways, better than the RTA/Monitor series speakers that I have owned / seen / heard. In terms of sound quality (discounting the SDA effect as I have little experience with it) I think, again, the RT/RTi series sound different but I wouldn't say that they are a step down in any way shape or form.

I think the folks who are wringing thier hands that Polk sold out or that mass market killed Polk or whatever need to get over it. IMO, the demos that you get at most stereo shops (as chuck pointed out) aren't all that great either (the higher end equipment, the better the demo). Polk going mass market did exactly what Matt intended, put great sounding speakers in as many homes as possible. The great thing about that is economy of scale which allows Polk to produce a GREAT speaker, like the LSi line, and sell them substantially cheaper than would otherwise be possible. Somebody 'splain to me (other than the loss of snob appeal) the downside to that.

I compare it to buying a Stanley hammer. I could buy one at a local hardware store for, say, 20 bucks OR I could buy it at Home Depot for 11. Where do you think I'm going to buy it and just because I paid more, is it any better? Should I be loyal to the little guy? Maybe, but in a lot of cases, the little guy has been gouging for years so why should I lose any sleep over him?

BDT

Frank Z

Originally posted by TroyD

I compare it to buying a Stanley hammer. I could buy one at a local hardware store for, say, 20 bucks OR I could buy it at Home Depot for 11. Where do you think I'm going to buy it and just because I paid more, is it any better? Should I be loyal to the little guy? Maybe, but in a lot of cases, the little guy has been gouging for years so why should I lose any sleep over him?

BDT

Troy,
Gotta call you out on this one. The little guy does not have the purchasing power that the national chain store does, therefore he cannot by the same product for the same price. The deck is stacked against the little guy! Stores like CC, Walmart, Target, etc. will always pay less for the products that they buy from their suppliers because of the huge quantities that they move through their stores. This is why so many Mom & Pop stores have been forced to close when a retail giant moves into town. You folks on the eastern side of the country may not see it as much as we in the west do, simply because we have more rural communities here which are being drastically affected by the likes of Walmart. I can tell you from first hand experience that when Walmart moved into my wife's home town that everyone thought it was great, except for the small businesses that were forced to close because they could not compete with a Mega store. I agree that it's hard to lay down $20 for a hammer at Store A when you could get it for $11 at Store B. But consider the fact Store A buys 100 hammers a year at $15, and Store B buys 1,000,000 hammers a year at $5 each. The little guy is going to lose every time.

Madmax,
Sorry for derailing you thread, hope your not pissed!

Frank Z

Double post..I hate when that happens!

RuSsMaN

Is there an echo in here?

TroyD

Frank,

OK, bad analogy. I get what you are saying and agree to a large extent with what you are saying. There are pros and cons to the mass retailer. However, I firmly believe in the capitalist system for better or for worse. Not perfect but it's the best system out there. At the end of the day, however, my point is, if I have the choice to buy the same hammer for 11 dollars, I'll do it every day of the week and twice on Sunday.

ATC,

I have to disagree. Where, other than the observations of the misinformed, is anyone bitching about the quality of Polks? The reviews of Polk products that I have read have been very complimentary, Polk bookshelf speakers have been a perennial favorite among the Stereophile staff (RT5, RT25i, LSi7) In it's price point, I defy you to find a better built speaker than Polks. Most use vinyl and spring clips whereas Polk doesn't.

I also believe that the LSi wasn't neccessarily designed to be a mass market speaker and I'm willing to bet that the LSi is probably exceeding it's sales projections. Sure, I'd love to have an LSi dealer around the block from me too, but I'd also like to have alot of other high end names around the corner as well and that just isn't the case.

The point is, I don't think that the LSi line is the disappointment or failure that some make it out to be. I'd be willing to lay money that they are doing as well or better than expected considering the economy.

My experiences with high end stereo shops aren't negative. I'm just saying, that just because it's a high end shop doesn't mean you are going to get a great demo setup. I've seen some good, some not so good, that's all. Some salesmen are good, some aren't, it's just like anything else...

BDT

madmax

Well boys,
There is a new small guy in town and he is being undersold and there is nothing he can do. His name is Circuit City, Best Buy and Walmart! So would you rather buy Lsi9's for $599.99 + $30 shipping from the internet or go to circuit city and pay $950 + tax?
madmax

Shizelbs

My only contribution to this thread is that there is nowhere near Seattle that one can buy anything LSi. It sure seems strange to me. If you live in Seattle, and want to even look at the LSi stuff, I believe its around a 4 hour drive in state, and 3.5 hours, if you want to go to Oregon, assuming there is a shop in Portland that carries them.
It really confuses me. I have gone to a couple "mom and pop" shops (they are doing great anyways) and some higher end stores, and they say the LSi's are great, but for whatever reason, they just don't carry them. Anyways, it just seems so odd to me that Polk can't or doesn't try to work something out to get the Seattle market. I know its no LA or NY, but, I am sure Seattle would be worth their trouble.

organ

brett,
I was talking about doing a DIY where the factory x-over would be replaced and have the speakers re-wired using x-overs from an SDA model speaker. The driver placement for the centers are very close to the SDA and I don't see why it won't work. It may sound like crap, but who knows.

Maurice

*edit*: Oops I forgot to mention they would be used as a stereo pair and not centers in a HT.